Outlets not working - sparked outlet - 2007 Diplomat

[Coach J]

Moderator EDIT.  The comments for this topic were, in some cases, mistakenly listed or posted as New Topics. They are being merged and condensed to maintain continuity and also prevent the forum topic list to be overwhelmed END OF EDIT.

I am plugged to shore power and EVERYTHING in the coach works except the outlets. 
 

AC, lights, fridge, microwave, etc all work fine. Had an issue with the outlet in the bathroom this morning and it shut my generator down completely when it sparked. But after that I believe my outlets worked but I didn’t realize they were ALL out until we parked and hooked to shore power. They may have been running on generator I just didn’t check. 
 

there is no gfi outlet anywhere that I can find and I cannot find a tripped breaker. 
 

please help 
 

2007 Monaco diplomat

[Ivylog]

Pin breakers on the side of the inverter is where I’d start.

[Coach J]

2 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Pin breakers on the side of the inverter is where I’d start.

There are 3 there 

 

a 50 and 2-20’s

 

the 2-20’s seem to be tripped but when I push them in they done stay. 

[Wrayj1]

Are you sure you don't have a GFCI somewhere?  On our 2007 Holiday Rambler it's near the floor near a cabinet that leads into the hallway.

[Coach J]

18 minutes ago, Wrayj1 said:

Are you sure you don't have a GFCI somewhere?  On our 2007 Holiday Rambler it's near the floor near a cabinet that leads into the hallway.

I will look closer. My wife and I both looked and could not find one 

[1nolaguy]

Check near sink (bath or kitchen) for GFCI.

[Rick A]

I have a 2005 Diplomat and it’s in the washroom on the vanity, why not get your multi meter out and check the circuit breaker on those  line? Oops. You said both pins on the inverter were tripped? That means both lines have been tripped? I’ve worked on my inverter by its tricky and dangerous! 

[Tom Cherry]

The way it works.  You have a 30 amp breaker in the main panel.  It powers the inverter.  When you are on shore or generator, the power from the 30 A goes to the inverter.  There is a 30 pin breaker on the inverter for incoming power.  Then there is an Automatic Transfer Switch inside.  As long as the inverter is hooked up to a good battery, the ATS allows the shore/generator power to go to 2 pin breakers.  Then one line goes to the microwave and the other to the GFCI.  

Your Owners manual has a complete section on the house electrical system.  Please read it.  Page 164 details the GFCI.  It is usually in the hallway right under the edge of the countertop where the sink it.

Always use an Eaton Wiring Devices or Hubbell or Leviton.  The others are not rated or suitable for the inverter.  
Past that, if you are uncomfortable with circuit testing and electrical repairs, get a good tech.  Otherwise, you could have an electrical failure and possibly electrical shock or a fire.

[TomV48]

4 hours ago, Coach J said:

There are 3 there 

 

a 50 and 2-20’s

 

the 2-20’s seem to be tripped but when I push them in they done stay. 

In our coach the outlet in the bathroom is the GFCI.   It is the source from there to many, but not all of the outlets in the coach.   One of our two 20 amp pop outs on the our inverter goes to the microwave and the other to the GFCI.

If the GFCI circuit shorted out, I'm not sure how it makes both 20 amp pop out blow, but I do know that a bunch of our outlets do run direct off shore or Gen power, even when I bump the GFCI off  while I work around it.

I hope that analysis helps in your trouble shooting.

Tom 

[TomV48]

I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone say this, as we always assume everyone knows that the most common GFCI's have visible buttons in the middle of an outlet, between the two plug sockets.       

I guess I offer that as, for instance, in our home the GFCI button is on an actual breaker in our main breaker panel and not an obvious button on the bathroom or kitchen outlet as is common.

I guess for those who cannot find an actual GFCI outlet, either in the kitchen or bathroom or maybe on an outdoor outlet, YOU COULD CHECK IN THE BREAKER BOX FOR A BUTTON.

[Ivylog]

You have a short (pin breakers keep tripping) probably where it sparked previously .

Dynasty and above have 2 GFI breakers in the main panel.

[Steven P]

My 06 Dip has a GFCI in the rear bathroom and I believe another outside just above the radiator. But your description reminds me of when our house was struck by lightning.  A GFCI got fried and you could reset that breaker but it kept tripping til the GFCI outlet was replaced.  If your inverter pins won't stay pushed in and there's no loads, something may be wrong w a breaker, outlet, or even wiring.  With all power shut off, including inverter, I'd start at the breakers. 

[Coach J]

13 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

The way it works.  You have a 30 amp breaker in the main panel.  It powers the inverter.  When you are on shore or generator, the power from the 30 A goes to the inverter.  There is a 30 pin breaker on the inverter for incoming power.  Then there is an Automatic Transfer Switch inside.  As long as the inverter is hooked up to a good battery, the ATS allows the shore/generator power to go to 2 pin breakers.  Then one line goes to the microwave and the other to the GFCI.  

Your Owners manual has a complete section on the house electrical system.  Please read it.  Page 164 details the GFCI.  It is usually in the hallway right under the edge of the countertop where the sink it.

Always use an Eaton Wiring Devices or Hubbell or Leviton.  The others are not rated or suitable for the inverter.  
Past that, if you are uncomfortable with circuit testing and electrical repairs, get a good tech.  Otherwise, you could have an electrical failure and possibly electrical shock or a fire.

Last night I took a chance and pushed in the 2-20 amp pins. They did not stay in but it did reset the outlets I am assuming. I say that because that’s all I did and they started working. People asking about my gfci and me not understanding how they work , I am saying that there is no outlet in my coach that had a typical gfci plug. We have searched everywhere and have tried to find it in the owners manual with no luck. The outlet outside by the fridge doesn’t even have one and there isn’t one anywhere in the kitchen or bathroom where I would expected it to be. 
 

I guess I have no idea if pushing those pins fixed the outlets but that is all I did. I don’t know why they would not stay in like the 30 is but maybe you can shed light on that.  
 

I also have a concern that my house batteries may be draining while I drive and not charging but I don’t know that for certain. I had AC issues that seem to have been corrected somehow as well so I am just in a guessing mode. 
 

thank you as always for your input. Would be lost without this forum 

11 hours ago, TomV48 said:

I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone say this, as we always assume everyone knows that the most common GFCI's have visible buttons in the middle of an outlet, between the two plug sockets.       

I guess I offer that as, for instance, in our home the GFCI button is on an actual breaker in our main breaker panel and not an obvious button on the bathroom or kitchen outlet as is common.

I guess for those who cannot find an actual GFCI outlet, either in the kitchen or bathroom or maybe on an outdoor outlet, YOU COULD CHECK IN THE BREAKER BOX FOR A BUTTON.

My point is there IS NO OULET in my coach that has a normal gfci. I am well aware of them and how they work and how to replace them. My point is there isn’t one. 

[Ivan K]

Maybe you have GFCI breakers in your breaker box. I don't have any GFCI outlets either.

[Coach J]

31 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Maybe you have GFCI breakers in your breaker box. I don't have any GFCI outlets either.

I thought maybe that too but there are none. I am sure I have missed something but I will keep looking to see what I can find 

[TomV48]

30 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Maybe you have GFCI breakers in your breaker box. I don't have any GFCI outlets either.

AND, to my surprise, our travel partners have a second breaker panel, as in a sub panel that seems (not mine so I haven't been too well oriented to it), but it seems to be the place all his inverter circuits come through.

Okay I just checked in with him he has no GFCI outlets in his coach but he does have a GFI button on a breaker and his breaker box

Not sure how bad it is when one of those goes south on you I know that we have our house that way but fortunately that breaker has never given me any trouble at the house.

[Ivan K]

This is what our GFI breakers look like, for reference, they control certain outlets that need protection and never gave me any problems.

[Coach J]

56 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

This is what our GFI breakers look like, for reference, they control certain outlets that need protection and never gave me any problems.

Yep. Mine does not have that 

[TomV48]

2 hours ago, Coach J said:

Yep. Mine does not have that 

Do you have a sub panel hidden somewhere.   Pretty sure a 2007 coach is going to have the code required GFI or GFI s somewhere.

[Steven P]

It's always possible someone replaced a GFCI outlet w a regular one either bc they got tired of it tripping or they were in a bind and never went back to the GFCI.  

Which model Dip do you have?

[Tom Cherry]

This is an UPDATE on the situation.  I talked to Coach J.  We have resolved what we think is happening.  Please allow him to do further testing as the responses in some cases do not pertain to his MH and the information is a bit confusing.  Therefore, take it offline until he finishes, but please understand the issues first.  He has the CONVENTIONAL Magnum setup. 

30 Amp Main Breaker....feeding a 2000 Watt Magnum.  There is a 30 Amp Pin Breaker on the incoming power line.  He has TWO 20 Amp Pin Breakers on the outgoing legs or circuits. 

The problem began when his wife plugged in a hair dryer or curling iron and an outlet sparked and he lost all power.  It was NOT the outlet she was using in the bedroom.

He has searched and does NOT have any GFCI device....either a receptacle or a breaker.  In his setup, there is NO subpanel like might have been on earlier Windsors or past or present (Monaco built ) Dynasty and up.  So, searching for a GFCI breaker was futile.

He has a Residential refrigerator.  The outlet that "sparked" shut down ALL interior outlets and his microwave and refrigerator and also the Genny.  The MOST LOGICAL PLACE for the GFCI is in the Hallway under the top of the Corrian counter top where the sink is. 

THEREFORE, if there is a 2007 Diplomat owner that can take a picture and post....that would be great.  His manual says he has a GFCI Receptacle and that is about it....but NO location is called out.

It appears, as the MH is recently new to him, that the OEM GFCI has removed....probably as there was a leak in the Res Refer.  He will replace it and see if he can isolate the Res Refer and put that outlet on the LINE side of the GFCI.  If that resolves it, then all is well.  IF the new GFCI continues to trip, then there must be an issue in one of the crimp on Manufactured Housing outlets which will require more testing.  There is no explanation on what caused the receptacle to "arc and spark"....speculation would be a bad connection or a 15 Amp underated receptacle.  Once the circuit is restored to the original configuration with a recommended brand of 20 Amp GCFI, then only time will tell.

Therefore, please bear this in mind when posting or just let Coach J complete the testing and rewiring.  Thanks for understanding.

PS, Steven gets the unofficial reward for the issue....when a GFCI fails....get rid of it and hope it works...

As an aside, Coach J DID check and his original IOTA-50R was replaced with a LYGHT LPT50BRD....so that is one less issue.

[Dr4Film]

My 2006 Dynasty had the two GFI Circuit Breakers in the main power supply panel removed by some previous owner for whatever reasons. My PDI RV inspector caught it luckily and was put on a list of repairs that needed to be done prior to purchasing the coach.

When I picked up the coach I never checked to see if it had been done correctly which it had NOT! The RV shop had hired a RV "electrician" to replace the standard CB with GFI CB's. Once I got the coach back home, I did some testing only to find out that the RV Tech had installed an incorrect type of GFI CB which was not wired correctly and could have caused a death or severe injury on our 10-day trip back home from Salt Lake City.

Called the RV shop to report my discovering and they paid for replacing the incorrect GFI CB's with the correct ones.

Why someone would disable an important safety device is beyond me but obviously it has happened to others too.

[Tom Cherry]

25 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

My 2006 Dynasty had the two GFI Circuit Breakers in the main power supply panel removed by some previous owner for whatever reasons. My PDI RV inspector caught it luckily and was put on a list of repairs that needed to be done prior to purchasing the coach.

When I picked up the coach I never checked to see if it had been done correctly which it had NOT! The RV shop had hired a RV "electrician" to replace the standard CB with GFI CB's. Once I got the coach back home, I did some testing only to find out that the RV Tech had installed an incorrect type of GFI CB which was not wired correctly and could have caused a death or severe injury on our 10-day trip back home from Salt Lake City.

Called the RV shop to report my discovering and they paid for replacing the incorrect GFI CB's with the correct ones.

Why someone would disable an important safety device is beyond me but obviously it has happened to others too.

In some cases….unknowing…..in other cases, patch it up….maybe to sell or not spend the time properly troubleshooting. As an Ex Safety Director. That makes my blood boil as I have seen severe injuries, including amputations, where a mechanic rewired a machine to run using an elbow so that an operator had BOTH hands in the die putting in or taking out a part.  The operator lost her train of thought and bumped her elbow into the ONE start button (disconnected the safety TWO BUTTON SYSTEM)….bingo…major accident. It was an incentive or piecework shop….so she made more money….

 

[Steven P]

@Tom Cherry thanks for the update. I'm thrilled to accept this unofficial reward. Lol. 

As far as posting a pic, i have a 2006 Diplomat 40dst. @Coach JWhich model Dip do you have? My gfci is in the main bath vanity.  Added 2 pics.  It's the one the little heater is plugged in to.

[RNMCBR]

Bobby,

Here is a picture showing the GFCI in my 07 Diplomat 38PDQ. It is in the bathroom. If you have an outlet in this same place, maybe someone previously removed the GFCI and replaced it with a standard outlet. I replaced mine because of nuisance tripping. 
Also,  I have experienced problems with a coach outlet that has “push on” type connectors on the back, where the wires are held in a slit similar to “scotch splices. A wire came loose and caused the outlet to be intermittently open. A friend of mine had the microwave outlet come apart like this and it was arcing. Your hairdryer issue might be related to something like this. 
Roy