Flow Rite Battery watering on Trojan T105

[63Hotrod]

Getting ready for new batteries First choice us Trojan T105 But not sure my watering system will work with them ?

second choice is Durcel

[Tom Cherry]

Stick with the Trojans T105.  Most folks use the Battery Miser caps (Amazon) and don’t need a supplemental system. I know many that are experienced MH Owners and contribute here that rarely add any water.  These are designed like a distillation tower.  You need to exercise or discharge them (that goes for any brand) once every 4 - 6 moths.  That includes checking the electrolyte level as well as the specific gravity.  Rarely do I add an ounce.  That is a smidge over the contents of a half liter bottle of water. read the PDF below.  I took a 3/8 x 6” hardwood dowel and made mine.  Your new Trojans have a much better (fill to here) line so you won’t need one.

my take is, based on how long it takes to disconnect the fill tubes each time you discharge, you (as others have done) will abandon the auto fill and it will take less time and be less messy.  Good luck.  The Battery miser caps are cheap and simple.  I use a squirt top drinking water bottle with Distilled water and after the first “squirt’ into the cell, I rarely have to remeasure.  
 

Good luck.  Good choice.  Folks are easily getting 8 - 10 years from the Trojans that are properly maintained.
 

 

 

 

[Mi Bill]

When I changed my batteries I called Flow-rite:

Contact us:
(616) 583-1700
customerservice@flow-rite.com

I had to get new batteries new tops, connectors, and tubes. I think the whole thing caused less than $20.00. They were very helpful and shipped it directly to me quickly.

Bill

[Tom Whitlow]

Tom:

My coach came with the Trojan HydroLink watering system.  I stick the fill tube into a jug of distilled water and squeeze the pump a few times until it won't squeeze anymore.  All the batteries get filled to the proper level simultaneously.  Very simple - very easy.   My golf cart used the same system for years until I converted it to lithium.  Is the Flow-rite a simpler, easier, and more efficient system?

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, Mi Bill said:

When I changed my batteries I called Flow-rite:

Contact us:
(616) 583-1700
customerservice@flow-rite.com

I had to get new batteries new tops, connectors, and tubes. I think the whole thing caused less than $20.00. They were very helpful and shipped it directly to me quickly.

Bill

The Battery Miser caps are $4.35 or $62.  The real question is how long it takes to remove a cap and check SG and then replace the cap so you can recharge.  Typically you do 3 draw downs to fully exercise them. You need to get the SG consistent in each battery and that takes about 3 cycles.  When that happens, the plates are more porous and you get peak state of charge.  Just letting them sit in storage and being on float charge and not properly discharged will start to reduce their SOC. Then, as time goes on, since you don’t follow the exercise protocols, they will no longer charge back up to 100%.  I know my 5 YO Trojans are still at 100§ after the 3 cycle exercise.  Another member is going on 8 years or so.  

The question is….the tine to shut off, remove the watering lines and then test and exercise if the issue you could shortcut the process and test the SG and record it then put the system back together and run through the 3 discharge cycles and do a final test.  But if you look at the variation between the cells in one battery, each time you recharge, then many times yo don’t need the 3rd cycle.  By using the Battery Miser caps you lose less electrolyte during the 4 - 6 month period.  As I said, less than a fluid Oz is needed to replenish.  Then I check, but rarely add during or after the exercising.  The Battery Miser caps have a locking flip over top, so when you check the level, you don’t remove them, 

The newer visible line caps help establish exactly “filled properly”.  I used a 3/8 dowel and then marked the fill to line.  I noyched or cut a small groove and that is used like the fill range on an engine oil dipstick.  So I never unscrew the caps.  

Whether one upgrades and uses the watering system or switches to the Battery Miser cap, the batteries are going to be safe and stable.  The Battery Monitor caps, like the auto watering system, prevents losses.  I suspect the watering is sealed.  

Sonit is then a question of which system or technique will take the longest time during the exercising.  If you depend on the watering system to always maintain the electrolyte and don’t exercise, you will get far less life as the natural degradation of the cells or the life is accelerated by not following Trojan’s recommendations.

Whatever works best, but the key is exercising.  Don’t do….get less life…

 

[Idoc57]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

The Battery Miser caps are $4.35 or $62.  The real question is how long it takes to remove a cap and check SG and then replace the cap so you can recharge.  Typically you do 3 draw downs to fully exercise them. You need to get the SG consistent in each battery and that takes about 3 cycles.  When that happens, the plates are more porous and you get peak state of charge.  Just letting them sit in storage and being on float charge and not properly discharged will start to reduce their SOC. Then, as time goes on, since you don’t follow the exercise protocols, they will no longer charge back up to 100%.  I know my 5 YO Trojans are still at 100§ after the 3 cycle exercise.  Another member is going on 8 years or so.  

The question is….the tine to shut off, remove the watering lines and then test and exercise if the issue you could shortcut the process and test the SG and record it then put the system back together and run through the 3 discharge cycles and do a final test.  But if you look at the variation between the cells in one battery, each time you recharge, then many times yo don’t need the 3rd cycle.  By using the Battery Miser caps you lose less electrolyte during the 4 - 6 month period.  As I said, less than a fluid Oz is needed to replenish.  Then I check, but rarely add during or after the exercising.  The Battery Miser caps have a locking flip over top, so when you check the level, you don’t remove them, 

The newer visible line caps help establish exactly “filled properly”.  I used a 3/8 dowel and then marked the fill to line.  I noyched or cut a small groove and that is used like the fill range on an engine oil dipstick.  So I never unscrew the caps.  

Whether one upgrades and uses the watering system or switches to the Battery Miser cap, the batteries are going to be safe and stable.  The Battery Monitor caps, like the auto watering system, prevents losses.  I suspect the watering is sealed.  

Sonit is then a question of which system or technique will take the longest time during the exercising.  If you depend on the watering system to always maintain the electrolyte and don’t exercise, you will get far less life as the natural degradation of the cells or the life is accelerated by not following Trojan’s recommendations.

Whatever works best, but the key is exercising.  Don’t do….get less life…

 

Hi Tom,

I have a few questions regarding your post above:

1.  When you talk about 3 draw downs, I am assuming that you start with fully charged batteries and then apply a load to bring the battery voltage down.  Do you have a recommendation of how much load (amps) to apply?  

2.  At what voltage do you remove the load and do you allow the batteries to rest before recharging?  How many amps of charging current do you recommend to bring them back up?  I am assuming that you perform the discharge/recharge cycle two more times.  Any rest time between the 3 discharge/recharge cycles?

3.  When is the best time to check the SG and add more electrolyte if needed?  Is one battery electrolyte just as good as the next?

4.  When you test the SG, do you draw the electrolyte up and squirt it back into the cell 2 or 3 times to mix it up before you take a reading?

Thank you,

Carey

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Idoc57 said:

Hi Tom,

I have a few questions regarding your post above:

1.  When you talk about 3 draw downs, I am assuming that you start with fully charged batteries and then apply a load to bring the battery voltage down.  Do you have a recommendation of how much load (amps) to apply?  

2.  At what voltage do you remove the load and do you allow the batteries to rest before recharging?  How many amps of charging current do you recommend to bring them back up?  I am assuming that you perform the discharge/recharge cycle two more times.  Any rest time between the 3 discharge/recharge cycles?

3.  When is the best time to check the SG and add more electrolyte if needed?  Is one battery electrolyte just as good as the next?

4.  When you test the SG, do you draw the electrolyte up and squirt it back into the cell 2 or 3 times to mix it up before you take a reading?

Thank you,

Carey

Don’t swear the duplicates.  As long as it was not intentional. LOL.  Fixed. Open the Battery 101.  Section 8 details it.  You need to think watts of load.  STP is about 30 DC.  Anything higher is NOT representative of a normal MH boondocking load.

50% SOC is loosely defined as 12.0 aa VDC.  Your remote (based on Magnum experience) will read lower compared to the real voltage at the battery. Typically up to 0.15 VDC.  It is important to understand that.  I check the batteries as a bank with a VOM.  TECHNICALLY, but it troubles some folks, you could go to 11.8 or 11.9.  Now if you paid attention, that is lower than the recommended 50% SOC.  What you are reading at the bank is the voltage UNDER load.  Remove the load and disconnect the 2 battery to battery jumpers….ain’t no current flowing.  Wait maybe 10 minutes.  The voltage will stabilize and be higher…maybe  0.15.  So when you drop the measured load voltage, then the recovery or at rest voltage will be higher.  Folks read 12.0 as 50% SOC.  THAT IS THE AT REST OR STABILIZED VOLTAGE….or the voltage you read to determine SOC.  A TRUE LOAD VOLTAGE WILL BE LOWER.  Wait an hour after you see float charge….then repeat drawdown,  timing not critical

You can check SG anytime.  Depends on how much time you spent in a college Lab.  Lol. The true SOC is measured after each recharge cycle.  You need a load to knock off the surface charge.  So, when fully recharged and float remote says float and just a few amps, kill the shore/Genny. Then put on the load for  few minutes.  Pull load.  Then pull jumpers. Wait 5 minutes or so.  Read the individual batteries.  Their VDC can be used to determine SOC from chart.  Assuming the SG is close on all 3 cells, average and that will be SOC.  SHOULD be the same. You need a good bulb hydrometer with a ZERO mark or calibration mark for pure DISTILLED WATER.  OR a refractometer one with a calibration screw.  You THOROUGHLY coat the glass plate and calibrate. Both can be had for $20 on Amazon. 

REMEMBER…..you should not be refilling the cells after the first cycle.  A good battery will not lose that much electrolyte, properly filled in one cycle.

You do NOT BUY ELECTROLYTE.  The battery cell has a sulfuric acid mixture.  The electrolyte is conductive and the cells are Galvanic.  Google or wiki it.  When you heat or recharge the battery, you “bubble” off O2 & H2.  The H2 is very reactive and will explode.  When you replenish a cell, you add PURE DISTILLED water.  Pharmacy or supermarket carry’s Distilled Water for C-PAC machines and humidifier and such.

IF for some reason, you have a cell that is losing so much electrolyte that you have to refill after every cycle….problem.  I refill prior to first run down.  Then recharge and verify level has not changed significantly….then do the next rundown….

From a chemical standpoint you need to understand this.  The battery manufacturer mixes Sulfuric Acid & Distilled water to get a certain SG. They then fill each cell to the prescribed point which is the midpoint between the TOP ot the plates and the bottom of the well.  The SG is 1.277.  

if you underfill…..as in let the level go below the fill line, you get a higher SG as the Acid content is higher.  But add Distilled water and you dilute it.  When you recharge you lose water….not the acid.  So refill to the original manufacturer’s level and the SG SHOULD BE 1.277.  As the cells degrade or are cooked higher, you eventually lose acid so the SG is lower….and a lower SG equates to a loss on SOC.

There will be a pop quiz….

 

 

 

[Idoc57]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Don’t swear the duplicates.  As long as it was not intentional. LOL.  Fixed. Open the Battery 101.  Section 8 details it.  You need to think watts of load.  STP is about 30 DC.  Anything higher is NOT representative of a normal MH boondocking load.

50% SOC is loosely defined as 12.0 aa VDC.  Your remote (based on Magnum experience) will read lower compared to the real voltage at the battery. Typically up to 0.15 VDC.  It is important to understand that.  I check the batteries as a bank with a VOM.  TECHNICALLY, but it troubles some folks, you could go to 11.8 or 11.9.  Now if you paid attention, that is lower than the recommended 50% SOC.  What you are reading at the bank is the voltage UNDER load.  Remove the load and disconnect the 2 battery to battery jumpers….ain’t no current flowing.  Wait maybe 10 minutes.  The voltage will stabilize and be higher…maybe  0.15.  So when you drop the measured load voltage, then the recovery or at rest voltage will be higher.  Folks read 12.0 as 50% SOC.  THAT IS THE AT REST OR STABILIZED VOLTAGE….or the voltage you read to determine SOC.  A TRUE LOAD VOLTAGE WILL BE LOWER.  Wait an hour after you see float charge….then repeat drawdown,  timing not critical

You can check SG anytime.  Depends on how much time you spent in a college Lab.  Lol. The true SOC is measured after each recharge cycle.  You need a load to knock off the surface charge.  So, when fully recharged and float remote says float and just a few amps, kill the shore/Genny. Then put on the load for  few minutes.  Pull load.  Then pull jumpers. Wait 5 minutes or so.  Read the individual batteries.  Their VDC can be used to determine SOC from chart.  Assuming the SG is close on all 3 cells, average and that will be SOC.  SHOULD be the same. You need a good bulb hydrometer with a ZERO mark or calibration mark for pure DISTILLED WATER.  OR a refractometer one with a calibration screw.  You THOROUGHLY coat the glass plate and calibrate. Both can be had for $20 on Amazon. 

REMEMBER…..you should not be refilling the cells after the first cycle.  A good battery will not lose that much electrolyte, properly filled in one cycle.

You do NOT BUY ELECTROLYTE.  The battery cell has a sulfuric acid mixture.  The electrolyte is conductive and the cells are Galvanic.  Google or wiki it.  When you heat or recharge the battery, you “bubble” off O2 & H2.  The H2 is very reactive and will explode.  When you replenish a cell, you add PURE DISTILLED water.  Pharmacy or supermarket carry’s Distilled Water for C-PAC machines and humidifier and such.

IF for some reason, you have a cell that is losing so much electrolyte that you have to refill after every cycle….problem.  I refill prior to first run down.  Then recharge and verify level has not changed significantly….then do the next rundown….

From a chemical standpoint you need to understand this.  The battery manufacturer mixes Sulfuric Acid & Distilled water to get a certain SG. They then fill each cell to the prescribed point which is the midpoint between the TOP ot the plates and the bottom of the well.  The SG is 1.277.  

if you underfill…..as in let the level go below the fill line, you get a higher SG as the Acid content is higher.  But add Distilled water and you dilute it.  When you recharge you lose water….not the acid.  So refill to the original manufacturer’s level and the SG SHOULD BE 1.277.  As the cells degrade or are cooked higher, you eventually lose acid so the SG is lower….and a lower SG equates to a loss on SOC.

There will be a pop quiz….

 

 

 

Thanks Tom!  I'll study real hard and be ready for the quiz in the morning!  Seriously, thank you for taking the time to explain all that.

Carey 

[63Hotrod]

Tom great info on maintaining the system 

Got a size question the T105 is slightly larger than the G2C the current ones are really tight in the tray. Standard tray for this model. So how do I shoehorn these in

[Tom Cherry]

Most welcome 🙏 

[Ivan K]

If anyone was interested in standard hight discounted Miser caps, they are on eBay for like $36, all inclusive. The seller mislabeled them as medium hght which they are not. I went with them anyway because of the very low 'headroom' and how busy my battery box already is. They look to be legit to me, just in bulk packaging. 

[Dr4Film]

Thanks, Ivan!

I ordered 12 for my house batteries.

I had a set on the house batteries for my previous Windsor for years. In fact, a friend of mine gave me his set when he switched over to AGM's.

I let them go when I sold the coach last year.

I prefer the Water Miser Caps to any auto-battery fill system. They really work well and help reduce the frequent watering of the flooded house batteries.

[Ivan K]

Good deal, Richard. Just a little tidbit,  after I informed the seller about his listing error, he automatically refunded half of what I paid. Can't beat that! I was initially hesitant to buy from him because of the suspiciously low price and not accepting PayPal but he is apparently pretty legit. Already installed and looking good.

[StephenW]

Thanks Ivan K for the info on the Water Miser battery caps, I just ordered the last 10 he had listed.  I am hoping he will restock so I can order the other 8 that I need. 

[Dr4Film]

Ivan,

The eBay vendor cancelled my order for nebulous reasons and refunded my money. No Water Miser Caps.

[StephenW]

My order was also cancelled.

[Ivan K]

Sorry to hear, no explanation? I got mine installed. It was a good deal, even though we are not talking big money. Maybe too good and they realized that they could make more on it or sold out too quickly? Not fair either way.

[StephenW]

The explanation I got was "I'm out of stock or the item is damaged."  I appreciate a good deal, but like you say probably too good a deal. When I ordered there were 10 in stock, so I ordered the ten and got cancelled a couple days later.  I guess I will have to pay the "big" bucks now. LOL 

 

[Dr4Film]

When I placed my order there were 22 in stock. I ordered 12 which left 10. I guess he realized his mistake by then and simply took the easy way out for the vendor and cancelled.

[Robert92867]

Battery maintenance is a pain in the back.  Thanks for the tip and favorable testimony.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Robert92867 said:

Battery maintenance is a pain in the back.  Thanks for the tip and favorable testimony.

YEP.  But it is pay me now or later.  Whether you use the Battery Miser Caps or the self filling systems, you must exercise the Flooded Cells, as well as the AGM.  Like any muscle, inactivity or non use weakens.  Which ever route you go, Water Miser or self watering, if you don’t dry camp and pull dow to 50% SOC or lower a few times every 6 months…..you will not get the optimum life.  We have meticulous folks that use the Water Miser caps and get 10 years out of a set.  I and they exercise for 3 cycles every 4 - 6 months.  I’ve Not hype….fact.  I was over 8 years and  really ran mine down due to a hydraulic pump issue and replaced them too early….and the golf cart shop sold them based on condition and didn’t scrap.

Just a matter of what type exercise….the batteries or your credit card….