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Koni shocks vs Bilstein


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On 3/21/2023 at 5:47 PM, Marine Boy said:

I know this has been talked about in many earlier chats, but sorry, I am asking it again.    I just got done talking with Berry at Josam Frame and he is a strong believer that it is worth the money to install Koni's over Bilstein.  I will admit that they are a Koni dealer which may make a difference???   Also, they do have a very good price on the Koni shock for $199ea.  For comparison, the Source Engineering modified Bilstein are $179 and the regular Bilstein are $115 on Amazon.  I have the 10s Roadmaster chassis, so I need 10 shocks.  Ouch!  But only want to do this once.   Labor quoted is one hour per pair which I feel is very fair and will keep me from crawling under the bus to do it myself.

While inspecting the shocks before I do this, I found one of my tag axle shocks is broken off, but luckily not the stud, just the shock itself .  Looks like it happened recently.

Love to hear experienced input.

Thanks, John

I started this Thread about shock choices a few days ago.  Thanks to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts and experiences.  I have learned a bunch and all of the input is helping me make a final choice.  I love this group and appreciated all of the sharing of knowledge!  

Best, John 

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I have the 88R8, last spring I replaced the 4 front shocks with the larger Bilstein's, (depending on the type of top connection you have, you can go with the larger)  my ride was significantly improved.  Just this week I corresponded with Jim at Source Engineering (regarding airbags, didn't know if I should replace them or not because of age only) and I will be ordering the rears shocks,  I am considering his ride enhancement kit.  If I remember correctly he work for Monaco for 10-11 years.  He tunes the shocks for your specific rig.  

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@Gweedo What did he say about replacing airbags due to age? I’m considering changing the four on mine due to signs of weather-checking on the front ones mostly.  
I have yet to find the actual part number or suitable replacement for my Cayman however. 

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15 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

I have the 88R8, last spring I replaced the 4 front shocks with the larger Bilstein's, (depending on the type of top connection you have, you can go with the larger)  my ride was significantly improved.  Just this week I corresponded with Jim at Source Engineering (regarding airbags, didn't know if I should replace them or not because of age only) and I will be ordering the rears shocks,  I am considering his ride enhancement kit.  If I remember correctly he work for Monaco for 10-11 years.  He tunes the shocks for your specific rig.  

Sort of.  JIM was in parts and warranty.  Scott was in engineering.  Read their bios on their site.  Unless there has been a second phase of testing, the shocks were specifically tuned for “models” or different chassis.  Source buys them from Bilstein….they are built to certain valving requirements.  I don’t think they offer a custom tuned one.  The ride enhancement is a “customer can play around” kit based on his rig and loads and “Fanny”.

I made a big investment in their sway bars and shocks and the only change would be to not put on the “really large” front ones….just their standard.  But the ride and handling was drastically improved….however, as Van states, it is more “RIDE”.  The sway bars really helped.  The larger front ones dampened a lot more.  But this is on the NON DYNASTY CHASSIS.  The Source shocks, I believe, for the Dynasty and up are far different than the Camelot/Scepter and lower.

I did the Source total package in 2012 @ 20K.  I added the WATTS in 2018 around 55K.  There was a noticeable and I mean BIG TIME difference in handling and road feedback…..and my TruCenter’s effect was increased many fold.  I do NOT pretend to be an expert on chassis, but have been a novice and driven two separate NASCAR “be PETTY” and got really top times and speeds.  I did a high end Corvette performance driving school in 2017 and have multiple driving modes on my C7.  Adding the Watts link was like switching my Vette’s mode from Sport or Touring to TRACK.  I now have to watch myself as the MH does lean and the driver fatigue is far less.

The Source shocks are a great improvement.  The ride enhancement kit lets you play with the air bags.  Adding a WATTS link would improve handling….and the best improvement would be to check to see if you have a Shepherd box and then switch, if one is available, to TRW.  FORTUNATELY, I had a TRW and it had almost no play when Van checked and tweaked it.

Hope this helps….

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I'll have to check into the Watts, but I am glad I went with the large shocks on front, no bounce and bumps on the road are way less noticeable.   As a trained driving instructor for low/high speeds in vehicles, I'm curious what the watts and other enhancements can do for the rig.  thanks for the info.

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59 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

I'll have to check into the Watts, but I am glad I went with the large shocks on front, no bounce and bumps on the road are way less noticeable.   As a trained driving instructor for low/high speeds in vehicles, I'm curious what the watts and other enhancements can do for the rig.  thanks for the info.

https://monacowatts.com/

Also do a search on WATTS using the Topics in the drop down.  The thumbnail....which others might expound on is this. 

There is way too much "play" in the Roadmaster suspension.  Some call it a bad design....others say....it could have been better.  Since maybe 2009 or so, many folks here and some left....have had a lot of fireside chats about HOW TO IMPROVE the Roadmaster chassis.  Primarily the NON DYNASTY and up.  The consensus, and there were folks that were on other blogs also, was to add a suspension component, dating way back in chassis design called a Watts link. 

This eliminated the "wandering" or the constant see-sawing of the wheel or never ending course or steering corrections.  There were literally hundreds of posts on he best driving positions of he hands and which one should be steering and which one should be "dampening" or counteracting.  BTW, another major MH manufacturer actually had a variable control to adjust the "tension" or the sensitivity of the steering...

OK..the next complaint was when a Semi sneaked up on you, there was a vacuum effect and all of a sudden, the rear end is whipping around.  Folks didn't like that.

The Watts link improved the "attachment" of the body to the actual suspension or chassis.  It was a god send....but, again, had very little impact on the upper end chassis.  Now, add in the TAG factor.  If you had a Tag, due to the additional axle....the impact of a semi was felt to be less.  

Now, with all this brainpower....and many were mechanical engineers and one was a professional racing driver that had designed and improved suspensions, the final consensus was...

The TRW steering sector has too much internal play and can not be properly adjusted to fit the Roadmaster Chassis. Thus, you convert to the TRW because it is tighter.

Then the watts link, on a MH like yours, will reduce the wandering and the impact of semis or cross winds or other perceived handling deficiencies.

If you had, as many have, installed a steering damper....as the Monaco Power steering is way too "overpowering" so the slightest touch has a impact....then the Watts link leveraged or increased the desired impact of the steering damper.  Some thought it is unnecessary where others, like me, think it is still an improvement...

After all my Source enhancements, adding the Watts really tightened up things....and mine was much improved....so in interstate conditions, i never feel trucks and when i slow down and decelerate to take an exit, i have to be careful in that I'm not driving too fast as the roll or lean is not there but I tend to go into an exit faster.  Likewise in hilly and mountainous terrains with curves or banks curves, I rarely slow down....

Do your research.  This is a HANDLING discussion....and Shocks are RIDE...

 

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2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

https://monacowatts.com/

Also do a search on WATTS using the Topics in the drop down.  The thumbnail....which others might expound on is this. 

There is way too much "play" in the Roadmaster suspension.  Some call it a bad design....others say....it could have been better.  Since maybe 2009 or so, many folks here and some left....have had a lot of fireside chats about HOW TO IMPROVE the Roadmaster chassis.  Primarily the NON DYNASTY and up.  The consensus, and there were folks that were on other blogs also, was to add a suspension component, dating way back in chassis design called a Watts link. 

This eliminated the "wandering" or the constant see-sawing of the wheel or never ending course or steering corrections.  There were literally hundreds of posts on he best driving positions of he hands and which one should be steering and which one should be "dampening" or counteracting.  BTW, another major MH manufacturer actually had a variable control to adjust the "tension" or the sensitivity of the steering...

OK..the next complaint was when a Semi sneaked up on you, there was a vacuum effect and all of a sudden, the rear end is whipping around.  Folks didn't like that.

The Watts link improved the "attachment" of the body to the actual suspension or chassis.  It was a god send....but, again, had very little impact on the upper end chassis.  Now, add in the TAG factor.  If you had a Tag, due to the additional axle....the impact of a semi was felt to be less.  

Now, with all this brainpower....and many were mechanical engineers and one was a professional racing driver that had designed and improved suspensions, the final consensus was...

The TRW steering sector has too much internal play and can not be properly adjusted to fit the Roadmaster Chassis. Thus, you convert to the TRW because it is tighter.

Then the watts link, on a MH like yours, will reduce the wandering and the impact of semis or cross winds or other perceived handling deficiencies.

If you had, as many have, installed a steering damper....as the Monaco Power steering is way too "overpowering" so the slightest touch has a impact....then the Watts link leveraged or increased the desired impact of the steering damper.  Some thought it is unnecessary where others, like me, think it is still an improvement...

After all my Source enhancements, adding the Watts really tightened up things....and mine was much improved....so in interstate conditions, i never feel trucks and when i slow down and decelerate to take an exit, i have to be careful in that I'm not driving too fast as the roll or lean is not there but I tend to go into an exit faster.  Likewise in hilly and mountainous terrains with curves or banks curves, I rarely slow down....

Do your research.  This is a HANDLING discussion....and Shocks are RIDE...

 

awesome thnx

6 hours ago, BradHend said:

@Gweedo What did he say about replacing airbags due to age? I’m considering changing the four on mine due to signs of weather-checking on the front ones mostly.  
I have yet to find the actual part number or suitable replacement for my Cayman however. 

He said he wouldn't worry about the bags yet.  but he does have them in stock

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