96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 In my coach today, plugged into 30A shore power, caught the Magnum remote panel go to 'Full Charge'. No 12v lights / equipment on, dehumidifier running, space heater running at 1100W. Inverter turned off. Magnum remote displaying 22A DC draw! Turn space heater down to 700W, DC draw drops to 0. Switch it back to 1100W, panel back displaying 22A draw. Why would there be any DC draw on the batteries, when the only things running are AC, and I'm on shore power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonbrooks Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 The only thing I could think of is inverting the DC which you said is turned off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 14 hours ago, 96 EVO said: In my coach today, plugged into 30A shore power, caught the Magnum remote panel go to 'Full Charge'. No 12v lights / equipment on, dehumidifier running, space heater running at 1100W. Inverter turned off. Magnum remote displaying 22A DC draw! Turn space heater down to 700W, DC draw drops to 0. Switch it back to 1100W, panel back displaying 22A draw. Why would there be any DC draw on the batteries, when the only things running are AC, and I'm on shore power? I’d check the remote settings. Focus on LOW AC cutoff. I keep mine set to max of 100 VAC. IF your AC put load on the 30 A & the voltage dropped, then it could have gone into a temporary fault. The 10 A house load and the start up on AC (cycling bonus and off) would have potentially, for a few seconds, exceeded the 30 A….IF it was a “puny” 105 or so VAC, then the Magnum reacted. In addition, with that peak load, Magnum says to cut back or shut down the charging rate. 40% or so. You overloaded your supply. I assume by “drawing” , was that when the remote said “Inverting “ or Charging”. If you are referring to the charging current. 22 A Equals about 3 A charging. Your appliances drew too much and voltage dropped and that temporarily shut down the inverter, so that killed the lights My thoughts. Call Magnum and ask., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 No heat pumps running. A portable dehumidifier, which draws about 6 amps, and a space heater. At the time I'm seeing 22DC amps on my Magnum remote, I'm drawing about 17AC amps on a 30A shore power. Yes, inverter is turned off, and since batteries were full, charging light is flashing (standby mode). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyronTruex Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Could be the EMS is running on the edge of its "averaged 3 hour" current of around 80% or 24 amps. What effect this might have could take some real diagnosis and record keeping, as you seem to be doing. Perhaps the "charger/inverter" is kicked offline do to low voltage and when it resets as that load is taken offline momentarily the voltage goes back and the Inverter comes back online. It may be seeing the combination of engine and house batteries (combined) as a bit of a low and it begins to charger for just a few moments. It could go through a vicious cycle when living on the edge of the limits of the EMS shedding system. For grins, pull the shoreline power for a few minutes to let the EMS come out of the "averaging" mode to see if things improve. Are you also running the water heater on electric? In any case, I don't think you have any serious issue other than perhaps low shoreline as suggested or the setup of your EMS. I would definitely set the charger at its lowest setting assuming you have the ability to do so. If you have the Magnum there is a video available that can help guide you. Setting the charger down to 10% will keep up with things when the batteries are up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 No water heating turned on, and prior to me turning on the space heater, the only thing running during the previous 24hrs was the dehumidifier. I'm going to see if I can replicate this today, and test the house battery to inverter cable with a DC clamp meter! Super strange the heater running 700W shows 0 DC amps on the Magnum, but 1100W setting shows 22 DC amps. AC power should just pass thru! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Well, just got a bit more puzzling. The dehumidifier doesn't even need to be running. The space heater alone will cause this. 700W setting= 0DC amps displayed, quiet inverter 1100W setting= 22DC amps displayed, inverter hum's 1500W setting= 0DC amps displayed, quiet inverter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 OK, ONE MORE TIME. I reread your post. When you said AC, I assumed you meant “overhead” AC. NEXT UP. Turning off inverter really doesn’t do anything except shut it down from inverting, and it MIGHT just come on automatically if you lost shore. It is still in the “standby” mode. Thus, it IS monitoring the status of your batteries, so when you say “draw”, I interpret that to be “charging current”. OK, that is almost 3 A VAC from your 30 amp supply. Next up, you are interchanging battery charging current with VAC WATTS. Your inverter is allowing 1,100 WATTS of VAC power. That is coming through one of the two output circuits, assuming you are using your interior (probably GFCI line) to power to pass through. The Magnum will allow 30 A of pass through power. If you use a nominal voltage of 120 A, that is 3,600. That runs though a dual pole ATS. It has two output legs and each is protected by a 20 A pin circuit breaker. So, you did NOT exceed the rated output. Now that, if the above is correct, also means your Magnum was around “fully charged” and you were, close, to pulling 22 amps of DC current for your “House” load. SO, that is close to 25% or more of your Salesman Switch Solenoid. THUS, as long as your house batteries are “OK”, Then, this is where I would go. First. Do you still have the original Salesman Solenoid or even a replacement one. If it is still in line as OEM and in use, odds are, the contacts are pitted. now that ASSUMES you have the 3 wire (control wire) latching relay. When they fail, they often cool down quickly as the contacts are the high resistance. Bottom line, if you have the OEM SALESMAN SOLENOID….ditch, pitch or jumper or bypass it. NAPA 781144 Is the jumper that works best. If you have a need, for such, then be a big spender and buy a Jumper as you will need it when it does die. OK…NO solenoid or bypassed or Jumpered….. next up is the House Disconnect switch. You lost DC from, a presumably, good set of batteries, that do not need a full time 22 amp to work. So, the House switch is next. FINALLY, Pull your prints. There has to be “protection” between the batteries and the Salesman Solenoid. Most likely, but your pints will show, a FUSE. Most likely the standard ANL long ones. It would have blown. FINAL place to look. Odds are, if you have the Intellitec MPX, there are 5 Circuit Breakers hidden away behind the panel with the Intellitec 3 output modules. Remove the, pull the Panel. You 42 has 5. One for rear toilet and 3 for the 3 Intellitec modules and FINALLY….the house distribution panel. A loose connection is exactly what folks have had before. Tighten all the cable nuts. That terminal strip is the weak link in the Camelot/Scepter configuration….right after the idiotic Salesman Switch…. NO JOY THERE, then PM your connections between the Battery and the main Buss… You had an intermittent interruption in the DC. IF the conditions as you explained and I restated are that….coincidence and NOT inverter related and the DC Charging Amps have nothing to do with the 120 VAC watts load. Good Luck. Let us know what you find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Huh! I haven't LOST 12v DC power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Well, it stumped the Magnum tech support guy I finally got to speak with! He has to go higher up the chain to engineering, and get back to me. Say's other than this issue, my inverter is working fine! Too bad. I found the 1100W setting on the space heater ideal! Edited March 30, 2023 by 96 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 hours ago, 96 EVO said: Huh! I haven't LOST 12v DC power! I must reread your post again. I have no 12 v lights on….was interpreted to mean….I had a 12 VDC drop out. Next you said….then the inverter is turned off….as in, I didn’t have it on. OK….SO, You were rocking along…..had a 1100 watt load on the internal outlets. That was coming from a 30 A shore load. All your DC lights and such were not on or not pulling a heavy load. THEN, the 120 VAC, coming to your 1100 watt load, via the internal ATS of your inverter…SHUT DOWN. The inverter “turned off”, but the charger was still working…as it was “drawing” 22 A. Therefore you still had a charger….but not Inverter. Ordinarily, when an inverter has a fault, you get a “fault” message. You did not report that. Since you were not running any OTHER, NON INVERTER devices, you have no indication that there was a momentary “power blip” or outage. If it were my rig, I would do rhe SOFT RESET. Wait about 5 - 10 minutes, per Magnum, when I helped troubleshoot. Then turn the inverter back ON….as well as the Charger. I would then use it as normal. Odds are, it was a “one off” occurrence and since you had NO other device running on “non inverter pass through” power, you don’t know for sure. NOW, if you want to do a little experiment, then find a regular 18 gauge extension cord. Plug into your block heater or maybe into the Vacuum outlet. I THINK that one is fed from the main breaker, but not sure. The Block heater is definitely not on the GFCI you were using. Then get a desk lamp or even a digital clock. On that circuit, you will know if there was a blip. Bottom line, the soft reset will clean out things. I can tell you to also go back through your Magnum setup. A defective remote will play havoc. Mine was bad and the inverter was not switching on or inverting automatically when shore was pulled. It finally started to get flaky and the parameters in the remote were changing. That drove the control board crazy. Magnum had me pull remote and do soft reset. All worked fine and switched or went from passing AC to inverting. Then later on, plugged in remote and the ghosts appeared. We chased for a few months….then finally, the remote started losing or changing parameters like to 1000 Ah Setting and you could not set up the 5 or 6th parameter. BUY A NEW REMOTE. I did…it has worked flawlessly since then. Best I can do….I hope I have fully understood what really happened. Either a power blip and God only knows what happened as well as any gremlins might be lurking. Soft reset chases them away… Good luck… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) Everything in the coach operates. When I said no 12v lights or appliances were on, I meant I had none of those devices switched on. After getting off the phone with Magnum, I drug every plug-in appliance in the coach out and tested. Got no battery draw displayed on the remote panel on any of them, until I got to a Skill variable speed corded drill. At about 3/4 throttle, my DC amps on the panel went to 3A. Speed the drill to full throttle, DC amp draw back to 0. Oh, did resets and went thru all settings today with Magnum tech. No change, other than have him scratching his head as well! Edited March 31, 2023 by 96 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 43 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Everything in the coach operates. When I said no 12v lights or appliances were on, I meant I had none of those devices switched on. After getting off the phone with Magnum, I drug every plug-in appliance in the coach out and tested. Got no battery draw displayed on the remote panel on any of them, until I got to a Skill variable speed corded drill. At about 3/4 throttle, my DC amps on the panel went to 3A. Speed the drill to full throttle, DC amp draw back to 0. Oh, did resets and went thru all settings today with Magnum tech. No change, other than have him scratching his head as well! OK…Clarification for me. When you said you ran all the appliances and tools, were you still plugged into 30 A. If so, then you will not see any amp draw or charging current. The 120 VAC is merely passing through. Now, if you run a slide, since it is 12 VDC, you will see the charger kick in to replenish the battery. As long as you have shore, the inverter is idle. Now is some DC device comes on, then if the voltage drops, the charger kicks in. The remote doesn’t measure or display anything on the pass through VAC. Now, if you are on 30 A, and you have the EMS on 30 A….you can read the current the EMS. IF you are on 50 A, no current will be displayed. Based on what I understood you said….the VAC and the DC charging are not interrelated as long as you are on 30A… Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Yes. This is happening while I'm on 30A shore power. The mid setting only (1100W) on my Vornado space heater, will draw about 10 amps AC, AND, 22 amps DC from my batteries! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 10 hours ago, 96 EVO said: will draw about 10 amps AC, AND, 22 amps DC from my batteries! Both at the same time? Did you ever use a clamp on amp meter to see if 22 amps were actually flowing? I don't think it's been mentioned and it always comes up in electrical threads so I'll mention it, check your grounds. I have no reason why a ground might be the culprit but they can cause strange things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 11 hours ago, 96 EVO said: Yes. This is happening while I'm on 30A shore power. The mid setting only (1100W) on my Vornado space heater, will draw about 10 amps AC, AND, 22 amps DC from my batteries! Correction. There is NO DRAW on your Inverter Remote when you are on Shore or Generator. The “Draw” you keep posting is the float charging DC current going into your batteries. That is NORMAL. The 1100 Watts of 120 VAC that you are quoting is just “passing through” your inverter via the ATS on the PCB. Your Magnum Remote does not and cannot read the “pass through” 120 VAC power. If you were “on batteries” and had the same load, your meter would read “Inverting & XXX AMP”. The Inverting AMP are DC and showing you the load or drain on your batteries. If you want to “verify” the 1100 Watts, then read your Intellitec EMS display. That measures the TOTAL neutral load. NOW, also remember that the total 120 VAC Amps WILL INCLUDE your Inverter “charging” your batteries….so if you see the 22 Amps of DC charging, that is the 120 VAC EQUIVALENT of about 3 Amps. Therefore, 1100 watts would be, at 120 VAC, about 9 Amps. Add the Inverter charging of 3 Amps or 12 Amps. Now, to make this accurate, you would need to add in a small amount of “lost amps” that is also running the inverter….in addition to the charging amps. Any other appliances like a residential refrigerator or the heating element on a gas refrigerator would be also added in. So, continuing to quote the “1100” watts, without reading your Intellitec EMS is confusing as well as electrically incorrect. Please read your Intellitec EMS manual and your Magnum manual. Also understand that your TV and Home Entertainment systems, even “OFF”. BUT still plugged in, will draw milliamp sand that adds up. Likewise, your Intellitec MPX lighting system, even with NO lights ON, is drawing milliamp of DC or 12 VDC power. Thanks for doing some reading and understanding the above. Continuing to post just the two numbers and stating that the DC “DRAW” amps is somehow related to your issue is incorrect and confusing. Personally, I think you had a pedestal or campground power blip and the shortness or the power surge from on and off caused an internal “glitch” in your Magnum. Since you have done the reset, that should clear it. If your inverter acts up again, then there is probably an issue with the remote or perhaps the Battery Temperature Switch. Magnum will be the best tech support for that… Thanks for understanding…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Tom, like I said in my very first post, the batteries had reached 'FULL CHARGE'! Charging light was blinking, display reading, 'Charger Standby'. All other tests I'm reporting are with the charger turned OFF. DC amps going INTO your batteries from your inverter/ charger will have a '+' ahead of the number. No + ahead of that number, that's amp draw coming OUT of your batteries! If you go to your coach, turn off the charger, turn on all your lights /fans/ water pump, and read the bottom line on your Magnum remote, you'll understand what I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 @96 EVO X2 to measure Amps on your battery using a clamp on Amp meter as @Ray Davis suggested. I think this would prove out if the reading on your inverter remote is real or some "ghost" reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 I thought that was a possibility as well Bill, till I got my head close to the inverter and heard a hum. Space heater on 700W or 1500W, no hum. Only hums on 1100W setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 22 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Tom, like I said in my very first post, the batteries had reached 'FULL CHARGE'! Charging light was blinking, display reading, 'Charger Standby'. All other tests I'm reporting are with the charger turned OFF. DC amps going INTO your batteries from your inverter/ charger will have a '+' ahead of the number. No + ahead of that number, that's amp draw coming OUT of your batteries! If you go to your coach, turn off the charger, turn on all your lights /fans/ water pump, and read the bottom line on your Magnum remote, you'll understand what I'm saying. I fully understand what you see and are saying. Your first post…. In my coach today, plugged into 30A shore power, caught the Magnum remote panel go to 'Full Charge'. No 12v lights / equipment on, dehumidifier running, space heater running at 1100W. Inverter turned off. Magnum remote displaying 22A DC draw! Turn space heater down to 700W, DC draw drops to 0. Switch it back to 1100W, panel back displaying 22A draw. Why would there be any DC draw on the batteries, when the only things running are AC, and I'm on shore power? OK…..That is the DC amps CHARGING your batteries. You will always see some or maybe a small amount. When you saw 22 Amps and did all your experiments with the Shore On and Inverter On, the 120VAC load of 1100 or whatever you put on had NO impact on battery charging. ”SOMETHING” turned OFF your inverter. When it did, then the ATS inside and on the main board KILLED your pass through power. “Inverter turned off”. The issue is “WHAT”. IF it had been a “Fault” such as LOW battery cut off or LOW AC voltage, then when you looked at your remote, a “fault” code would have been displayed. You reported “NONE”. Simply “Inverter turned off”. This happened to me….several time. My experience is that the CG (30A) power blipped off for a brief time…milliseconds or seconds or maybe a minute. The INVERTER SHOULD have immediately switched to “Inverting” & displayed the DC Amp draw. Then, when the shore came back on, the Inverter should have immediately switched back to “pass through power”. When your inverter is set up properly, Search Watts should be OFF. That comes straight from Magnum tech support. That prevents a satellite box from rebooting. The electronics in them are more sensitive. In reality, when you pull the shore power or turn off the breaker, your microwave clock “rides through” and doesn’t flash. The inverter reacts that quick. But sometimes a quick on/off from a pedestal will fake out or cause an aberration. 99% of the time when you switch from House (remote shows INVERTING) to Shore or vice Versa, your microwave clock is fine. Bottom line….there are only TWO CAUSES of your failure. And that comes from many years of helping folks, having my own Magnum problems as well as talking to Magnum to help someone posting or offline….as well as reading and understanding how the Magnum works. First….a power blip. It was either a surge or “dirty” pulse or a myriad of other electrical anomalies. Your Magnum didn’t understand or interpret it….turned off. Killed your interior pass through devices. Now…one electrical theory here, the inductive or start up of your dehumidifier is from a compressor. If there was a peak, then there is no one that can tell you what or how it happened. Inductive loads like a dehumidifier act very strange. You “might” consider running the dehumidifier off the block heater or NOT on an outlet fed by the ATS in the Inverter. THE “RECOVERY”, PER MAGNUM…. Do the soft reset to clear everything….make sure Search Watts is disabled. Past that, you just use it. NOW…..VERY IMPORTANT. Trying to connect or state that the MAGNUM REMOTE is measuring or somehow reacting or displaying something to do with any 120VAC load is totally incorrect. It only displays “Inverting XX DC Amps” or Charging XX DC Amps”. Whatever PASS THROUGH AC WATT LOAD is not nor can not be displayed or correlated to any DC load on the Magnum. That is why you have the Intellitec EMS. As I explained in detail. Second…. You have an issue, just starting, with a faulty or bad Remote or BTS or maybe in the Inverter. That happened to me. IF SO, then you will have, probably, future issues where when you pull the Shore, the Magnum does NOT, with a fully charged and capable of 100 SOC House Bank, NOT SWITCH to INVERTING….and shuts off. Magnum said that is the most difficult intermittent gremlin to troubleshoot. I spent months chasing and experimenting and talking to Magnum and getting there “try this”. I learned a heck of a lot. Mine was, as stated, a remote going bad and each “switch” from House to Shore or Vice Versa was totally unpredictable. But finally, after all the tests or experiments….the remote would not respond on some setup parameters and changed one’s that I had just corrected. BINGO. New remote fixed it. BOTTOM LINE…. Please read the above. Continuing to try to make sense or connect a pass through wattage to a DC reading on the Remote is incorrect….and causing confusion. If it was a power blip, and you did the soft reset and the inverter & remote & BTS are OK., THEN use it. You can’t replicate a power surge. So, use it and monitor and see how it works. If it starts to happen again, then take this offline and work with Magnum. I will talk to you and also try to explain what I learned…..and it took me, an EX EE for two years with an electrical background going back 65 years….a while to noodle out exactly how the Magnum works….and I read and reread the manual and asked probing questions…l Thanks for understanding and good luck. Hope it was just a gremlin….and, lord knows, our electrical grid is stressed and the more high tech electronics we add, the more we realize and get frustrated….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 I'll leave it at this.... If Magnum tech support get back to me, like he said he would, with any plausible explanation to what may be causing this issue, I'll post it. In the mean time, all is well! I'll avoid using the mid heat setting on this heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: I'll leave it at this.... If Magnum tech support get back to me, like he said he would, with any plausible explanation to what may be causing this issue, I'll post it. In the mean time, all is well! I'll avoid using the mid heat setting on this heater. Yeah, sometimes mysteries are better left alone, no smoke no problem. 😄 Save the brain for important things like what's for dinner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Yeah, it's more of a curiosity than any kind of problem! With the battery charging turned on, it would replace that draw no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, 96 EVO said: I'll leave it at this.... If Magnum tech support get back to me, like he said he would, with any plausible explanation to what may be causing this issue, I'll post it. In the mean time, all is well! I'll avoid using the mid heat setting on this heater. Great…. Sounds like a plan. If your inverter has an issue, you’ll know it. I noticed it ONLY because my inverter didn’t turn on a few times and we noticed it when the Samsung didn’t run…. But, it was recurring. And the first sign, per Magnum, is not switching from shore to inverting properly….and stays OFF. Use. ENJOY & don’t sweat it, but monitor. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Hutto Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Just to pile on Tom’s comments, I had this same issue today…. A faulty AGS (it’s less than a year old!🤦🏻♂️ or a faulty MagWeb (remote monitoring system by Magnum) is causing my issue. Everything except the ARC remote is currently disconnected and system is working as it should. I’ll troubleshoot those two devices tomorrow once my blood pressure returns to normal and report back… PS - Thanks @Frank McElroy … again… for restoring my sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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