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LOST 120 VAC interior power through Magnum; head scratcher? 2008 Scepter.


96 EVO

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1 hour ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Just to pile on Tom’s comments, I had this same issue today….  A faulty AGS (it’s less than a year old!🤦🏻‍♂️ or a faulty MagWeb (remote monitoring system by Magnum) is causing my issue. Everything except the ARC remote is currently disconnected and system is working as it should. 

I’ll troubleshoot those two devices tomorrow once my blood pressure returns to normal and report back…

PS - Thanks @Frank McElroy  … again… for restoring my sanity.  

Yep, sometimes a phone discussion is worth a thousand words.  Glad you have your power back!

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24 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Yep, sometimes a phone discussion is worth a thousand words.   

That is for sure!

I never did lose any power. Either 12v or 120v.

My ME2012 inverter is acting like a hybrid inverter (which it's not).

Magnum tech support never did get back to me.

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9 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

That is for sure!

I never did lose any power. Either 12v or 120v.

My ME2012 inverter is acting like a hybrid inverter (which it's not).

Magnum tech support never did get back to me.

Are you still having the issue or has it calmed down?  If you continue to have issues, the next step is to pull the BTS AND LEAVE IT UNPLUGGED….Then do the soft reset.  We’ve seen a rash of bad BTS.  I’m of the opinion that age is catching up….as well as the fact that the grid is more flaky.  The micro “blips” or off’s are worse than  prolonged outage.  You get a power spike or surge and that is damaging,  just replaced my well pump.  Windings were partially shorted or damaged due to a power blip while it was running. That throttled the flow….still had pressure but no where near the rated output.  You could see the discoloration in the motor housing,  My well guy is a graduate geologist and is also a certified “Professional Geologist”.  He attends a lot of well and drilling seminars and teaches.  The pump manufacturers are seeing more blip failures.  Same for Garage door openers…list goes on…

 

2 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Just to pile on Tom’s comments, I had this same issue today….  A faulty AGS (it’s less than a year old!🤦🏻‍♂️ or a faulty MagWeb (remote monitoring system by Magnum) is causing my issue. Everything except the ARC remote is currently disconnected and system is working as it should. 

I’ll troubleshoot those two devices tomorrow once my blood pressure returns to normal and report back…

PS - Thanks @Frank McElroy  … again… for restoring my sanity.  

Scotty, 

you are in good hands.  Frank has taught me a bunch.  Just curious, now that it is working….do you and the Jedi Master (I won’t say Yoda…LOL) suspect the BTS.  just curious….

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4 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Are you still having the issue or has it calmed down?  

 

Yeah, it's calmed down by consistently being warm enough to run a heat pump instead of my space heater.

Went thru all the soft reset, unplugging BTS with Magnum tech support on the phone. No resolution.

Like I mentioned early on, it's more a curiosity than an actual problem.

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1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Are you still having the issue or has it calmed down?  If you continue to have issues, the next step is to pull the BTS AND LEAVE IT UNPLUGGED….Then do the soft reset.  We’ve seen a rash of bad BTS.  I’m of the opinion that age is catching up….as well as the fact that the grid is more flaky.  The micro “blips” or off’s are worse than  prolonged outage.  You get a power spike or surge and that is damaging,  just replaced my well pump.  Windings were partially shorted or damaged due to a power blip while it was running. That throttled the flow….still had pressure but no where near the rated output.  You could see the discoloration in the motor housing,  My well guy is a graduate geologist and is also a certified “Professional Geologist”.  He attends a lot of well and drilling seminars and teaches.  The pump manufacturers are seeing more blip failures.  Same for Garage door openers…list goes on…

 

Scotty, 

you are in good hands.  Frank has taught me a bunch.  Just curious, now that it is working….do you and the Jedi Master (I won’t say Yoda…LOL) suspect the BTS.  just curious….

Not sure yet. Testing everything tomorrow.  BTS, AGS, and MagWeb device. All are less than a year old (in fact, the only part of my inverter system that’s original is the inverter itself!), but it’s one of those three  😒

I’ll report back 

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Just following up…. Tested everything per the “Magnum Inverter Troubleshooting Matrix” (Uploaded to the files section). Followed up with more discussion with Frank and Magnum Tech Support. Most likely scenario is a bad ME-ARC50 remote.  Secondary possibility is a bad control board in the inverter itself.  

Magnum Tech support recommended replacing the ME-ARC50. If by chance that does not correct the issue, they do not recommend having the control board replaced due to the age of the inverter (17 years).  Even if a new control board corrected the issue, at 17 yrs, it’s reached end-of-life and other components could begin to fail. 

In conclusion, if the new remote doesn’t fix the problem, it’s time for a new inverter… new remote is on order and set to arrive early next week. Stay tuned…

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6 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Just following up…. Tested everything per the “Magnum Inverter Troubleshooting Matrix” (Uploaded to the files section). Followed up with more discussion with Frank and Magnum Tech Support. Most likely scenario is a bad ME-ARC50 remote.  Secondary possibility is a bad control board in the inverter itself.  

Magnum Tech support recommended replacing the ME-ARC50. If by chance that does not correct the issue, they do not recommend having the control board replaced due to the age of the inverter (17 years).  Even if a new control board corrected the issue, at 17 yrs, it’s reached end-of-life and other components could begin to fail. 

In conclusion, if the new remote doesn’t fix the problem, it’s time for a new inverter… new remote is on order and set to arrive early next week. Stay tuned…

That would have been my conclusion also.  Magnum told me, quite candidly...  If the Inverter is over 5 years old, you CAN have issues on the board.  However, unless an individual does the board installation themselves, it is more cost effective, rather than paying a shop, to change out the inverter.

My experience, and I spent time with Frank as well, plus about 10 calls to Magnum as in.  OK, what is next... ended up with me replacing my remote.  The remote would not hold the setting parameters nor would it totally complete a "Parameter" reset.  There were some setting towards the end (#7 and on) that would NOT change....then an hour later, I would check the remote and the Amp Hours had changed to the 1000 setting.  I also ran the MH for a trip WITHOUT the remote.  I did the soft start....then just let it run.  When I would stop at a rest stop, the Inverter was STILL inverting....the issue with mine was that it would NOT switch to inverting from shore.  You would lose power or the 120 was gone....and you then had to turn the inverter on from the remote...  New REMOTE....fixed it.

With your NEW Remote, you should be good to go.  Magnum recommended to me unplugging the BTS and doing a soft reset and then using it for a while.  THEN if all was well, then plug in the BTS to ensure it was not going to be an issue.

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41 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

That would have been my conclusion also.  Magnum told me, quite candidly...  If the Inverter is over 5 years old, you CAN have issues on the board.  However, unless an individual does the board installation themselves, it is more cost effective, rather than paying a shop, to change out the inverter.

My experience, and I spent time with Frank as well, plus about 10 calls to Magnum as in.  OK, what is next... ended up with me replacing my remote.  The remote would not hold the setting parameters nor would it totally complete a "Parameter" reset.  There were some setting towards the end (#7 and on) that would NOT change....then an hour later, I would check the remote and the Amp Hours had changed to the 1000 setting.  I also ran the MH for a trip WITHOUT the remote.  I did the soft start....then just let it run.  When I would stop at a rest stop, the Inverter was STILL inverting....the issue with mine was that it would NOT switch to inverting from shore.  You would lose power or the 120 was gone....and you then had to turn the inverter on from the remote...  New REMOTE....fixed it.

With your NEW Remote, you should be good to go.  Magnum recommended to me unplugging the BTS and doing a soft reset and then using it for a while.  THEN if all was well, then plug in the BTS to ensure it was not going to be an issue.

Trying to wrap my head around this entire issue everyone is talking about.  You referenced board and remote.  Are these two different items?    When I unplug from shore my GFI pops, I have to reset it three times before it stays on the inverter.  In the meantime my Samsung has to be reset making sure the ice maker is off.  Shouldn’t go straight to inverting without interruption of power.  Thnx

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

Trying to wrap my head around this entire issue everyone is talking about.  You referenced board and remote.  Are these two different items?    When I unplug from shore my GFI pops, I have to reset it three times before it stays on the inverter.  In the meantime my Samsung has to be reset making sure the ice maker is off.  Shouldn’t go straight to inverting without interruption of power.  Thnx

The remote control is the device (typically) inside the coach that you use to monitor and set parameters on the inverter. Here’s a pic:

IMG_5610.thumb.jpeg.59ece91bdcddaeb874c5f5fc4cf40ee6.jpeg

The control board is the electronics board physically inside the inverter that talks to the remote (and AGS, BMK, etc.) and actually controls the inverter. 

As for your GFCI receptacle, have you replaced it?  They do “wear out” (so to speak), and one symptom is that they “pop” off often and become harder to reset. If you replace, make sure you use the same rated GFCI (mine was 20A). The ones purchased from a big box had the same issue  

Here is the one recommended by Magnum Tech Support that solved my issue:

Hubbell Wiring GFRST20W AUTOGUARD Commercial Standard GFCI Receptacle, White, NEMA 5-20R, 125 Volts, 20 AMPS

https://a.co/d/1WPy9aB

There’s a really good thread on this subject that may help.  

 

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1 hour ago, Gweedo said:

Trying to wrap my head around this entire issue everyone is talking about.  You referenced board and remote.  Are these two different items?    When I unplug from shore my GFI pops, I have to reset it three times before it stays on the inverter.  In the meantime my Samsung has to be reset making sure the ice maker is off.  Shouldn’t go straight to inverting without interruption of power.  Thnx

 

 

 

BOARD - That is the Printed Circuit Board or the "Magnum".  It is the heart of the Magnum, but there are also a LOT of other items like thermostats and fans and such.  When an inverter has a "Fault" or gives issues, then you have to trouble shoot to see what is wrong.  If the board has a "fatal" or non resettable issue....like a failure of a component (typically the ATS that is also on it), then you need a new board.  BUT, that does not replace all the other items. Board prices, from Magnum approved repair shops will be in the $450 range.  Then 3 - 4 hours or labor.  Bottom line, the cost of rebuilding an older Magnum exceeds 50% of the cost of an individual just pulling the Magnum out and replacing.  That is considered an easy job as you only have two battery cables and maybe 6 or so wire connections....each is an exact duplicate of what you have to disconnect.  So, you make a photo and pull it and use the photo to complete it.  Many folks that are NOT trouble shooting electronics type can easily do this.

REMOTE - That is the internal or control panel in the Motor Home that tells you what is going on and what is happening.  When these fail, as Scotty and mine did, you get "WEIRD" things happening and you have to narrow it down.  

You may need to get a little more knownledgable with your Magnum.  NOT....your issues are NOT good.  I wrote a white paper on setting up a Magnum.

You need to read this and the first step is to make sure your Magnum is set up right.  The very first setting, Search Watts, is often the "killer" that momentarily shuts things down.  Fix that...

OK....GFCI.  I will only give you my opinion, as well as personal experience and also helping others fix this.  I do NOT know how much electrical knowledge or hands on that you have....so here is the basics.  Any person with average electrical skills that can change out an outlet in a house can do this.  This does NOT take an RV Tech....

In your MH, odds are....there are THREE piece of Romex cable on the GFCI.  Also, your GFCI is old and needs routine replacement....the older they get....the more persnickety and crotchety they get.  ALSO, you NAILED the issue.  A faulty GFCI will think that an icemaker is a HAZARD.  Your HOME refrigerator is NOT, by NEC Code, on a GFCI.  In fact, it and your Microwave are NOT supposed to be on a CFCI as they will falsely trip or be a nuance.

Purchase a NEW 20 Amp GFCI.  There are THREE brands approved.  This comes from the original Magnum Owners Manual  So use only them.  Eaton Wiring Devices, Leviton and Hubbell.  I like the Eaton as I used to work for that division and was in many plants and spent time in their Wiring Devices plants...  Scotty just posted what Magnum is recommending.  The folks that have replaced their old GFCI's with any of the three brands have NOT have any issues.  There MAY be some others, but since Magnum said these three were APPROVED....why take the chance?

The GFCI needs to be removed...but before it is disconnected, Mark with masking tape the three.  The TOP one will be LINE....that is the incoming power from the Inverter.  In case you don't know it....the Inverter actually has all your incoming receptacle appliances on them and the ATS on the "BOARD" just switches and lets you have internal receptacle power when on shore. OK...if you are lucky, as I think you will be there are TWO pieces of Romex on the bottom or the LOAD.  Mark each one.  One is going to your INTERNAL outlets and ONE is going to the "Icemaker" receptacle inside the lower Refrigerator Vent cabinet.  Assuming there are TWO, the one going to the Icemaker (which is powering your Samsung), needs to be MOVED to the top or the LINE Circuit.  It should NOT be on the bottom or the LOAD terminals.

So, you Hook up ONE of the two pieces of Romex that was on the bottom.  Then turn the power on.  Just leave the GFCI out and dangling....this is a test.  If you have power to the Outlets (the MIcrowave is on another circuit....so don't confuse it).  You need power to the outlets around the sinks.  IF you have power....then you will turn OFF the power and the "NOT CONNECTED LINE" should be connected to the top.

If there is NO power to the outlets, you SHOULD have power to the Samsung.  Test that....is it working.  If so, then the Romex on the LOAD side needs to be put on the top and the one not connected should be on the bottom....Turn off power.  Test that.  You should NOW have power to the Samsung and your outlets should be working.

This may (probably?) will solve the issues.  It is requested that you try this and then report back.  That way we know what is going on.  IF you still have issues, then there are a few other things to try.  BUT, this is the simplest....and most logical based on the info you provided.

Good Luck...

 

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THANK YOU Tom, I will absolutely do everything you listed when we return home next week.   Just one clarification, behind the fridge I have one outlet, one is marked gfi, at the end of the day does the Samsung stay plugged into the gfi side or non,  I am very mechanically inclined and have some electrical knowledge but more of a dunce when it comes to electrical and not afraid to admit it.   
 

thanks again!!!!!!  I’ll absolutely let you know how it turns out   

 

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Just for clarity, 

The original topic of this thread, was never 'Solved'. 120V power was also Never Lost!

I never received a call back from Magnum Tech support, so I may or may not try with them again. It's not affecting the function of the inverter / charger.

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4 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Just for clarity, 

The original topic of this thread, was never 'Solved'. 120V power was also Never Lost!

I never received a call back from Magnum Tech support, so I may or may not try with them again. It's not affecting the function of the inverter / charger.

Oops!  My mistake. Corrected and “unmarked”  

I spoke with Magnum Tech Support yesterday. They never responded to my email request for a callback (per the website) or the callback message left Monday per their recorded message.  I ended up calling and waiting through about an 1 hr 20m hold (while I was working on other stuff on my laptop) to get through. I believe they only have one (maybe two?) Tech answering calls, and they are struggling to keep up with requests. I was 11th in line when I first called, so figure 10-15 minutes per caller ahead of you should you decide to hold. 

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40 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Oops!  My mistake. Corrected and “unmarked”  

I spoke with Magnum Tech Support yesterday. They never responded to my email request for a callback (per the website) or the callback message left Monday per their recorded message.  I ended up calling and waiting through about an 1 hr 20m hold (while I was working on other stuff on my laptop) to get through. I believe they only have one (maybe two?) Tech answering calls, and they are struggling to keep up with requests. I was 11th in line when I first called, so figure 10-15 minutes per caller ahead of you should you decide to hold. 

I have called Magnum maybe 3 times in the last month to either verify or ask a question to help a poster.  Typically #3 or so in line.  No higher.  Wait was less than 15 minutes.

GRRRRRRRR.  OK Venting on tech support hostilities…..

While doing some research for an alternative method or easy non “intrusive” way to assist folks that are having difficulties with the Houghton units and no way to control furnace (AquaHot), I stayed on hold for 30 minutes with RecPro their supplier and tech support….and then finally, Operator NOT Available….leave a Voice Mail.  

Then tried MicroAire (the BT and Wireless Thermostat Alternative).  I had talked to them before and their systems will ONLY replace a completely and fully installed HVAC system….and support 4 Brands.  This time out, they have dropped all phone support.  I checked their documentation and website and they do NOT offer a replacement that has a controller or such to modify and use on a RecPro Houghton nor for a stand alone Furnace….

However Coleman/RVPro/Axcel(sp) did have a short wait time….and the tech answered my questions about their universal hard wired Thermostats, but had no knowledge of the Dometic system and the phone MPX systems….so STRIKE 3….but they were nice and knew their products….

 

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Scotty, when I called the other day I started out 6th in queue. Made it to 2nd, and it hung up on me 🤬!

Dialed back, and I was back to being 6th in queue! After spending half hour or so with tech support guy, going thru all settings and a re-boot, he couldn't figure it out.

Said he would ask farther up the chain and get back to me the next day.

Didn't happen.

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Ben, did you happen to get a picture of your display and load shedding display area while it is acting strange?

It would likely take a substitution to sort this one out.  

To me, it indicates the issue is within the Inverter, versus a display etc. You are right in that is sounds like it is trying to act like some sort of hybrid.

Being able to duplicate it with a variable speed device to get the current demand at the sweet spot is very interesting. 

Trying to isolate things I'm wondering if removing the positive input to the inverter from the batteries might change the symptoms some how.  It might be worthless information but could contribute something to the mystery.

 

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1 hour ago, myrontruex said:

Ben, did you happen to get a picture of your display and load shedding display area while it is acting strange?

It would likely take a substitution to sort this one out.  

To me, it indicates the issue is within the Inverter, versus a display etc. You are right in that is sounds like it is trying to act like some sort of hybrid.

Being able to duplicate it with a variable speed device to get the current demand at the sweet spot is very interesting. 

Trying to isolate things I'm wondering if removing the positive input to the inverter from the batteries might change the symptoms some how.  It might be worthless information but could contribute something to the mystery.

 

Removing the battery cable will do a hard restart.  Then you power it on.  

if you want to eliminate the remote (display), you do either a hard restart or a soft restart.  The inverter’s permanent or default parameters are set for 4 House bank coaches.  

After many hours and many calls, the only way to isolate is to pull all the phone wires….that is the AGS, BTS & Remote.  Do the hard or soft start.  Then let it (the inverter) run without any ancillary inputs.  If you have 120 power internally when on shore, then the ATS is working,  if you have inverted power when on batteries, then it is working.  If it (inverter) switches from shore to inverting and vice Versa, it is working.  

The Search Watts Is ACTIVE, BUT at a low 5 Watt setting.  You may see a Satellite Receiver reboot as the are the most “sensitive”.  Typically, the Microwave clock will keep online and not flash.

That was exactly what Magnum told me.  If all is well and you have no issues….then odds are the Inverter is OK.  Then you begin the testing and troubleshooting and plug in one at a time.  The BTS is the first as it typically shorts out more.  Then the remote….which then identified my issue….like Scotty’s.  Finally the AGS, highly unlikely and you run for a while and then test.

Ben’s case is difficult to totally trouble shoot because he has a variety of loads of different types.  First is the 30 Amp shore.  The Inverter, to deliver the 3000 W pass through load needs almost all that breaker’s capacity. Now, he stated that no other AC loads were on.  If he has a Res Refer, it will cycle on and off and you get a sharp inductive load or higher amps.  Whatever the Plate Data on the Res Refer is….anywhere from 1 - 5 amps based on the efficiency…but you get a spike.  Factor in the additional higher inductive load of a dehumidifier as well as the resistive load of the space heater.

Typically, space heaters and MH are not good bed fellas….then drop in to Compressors with an inductive spike current load and you have the makings of a “gathering” that will break all the rules.  I seriously doubt any Magnum tech could give a straight and logical answer.  Having read Ben’s descriptions many times and just now, I think that the Magnum just got “confused”…and since it was on 30 A, and not knowing or remembering the charging rate….it was trying to react.  Ben commented on the Hum.  Again, without knowing the battery status or the SOC….as well as not knowing if there was any cyclical AC being drawn…

He does report that after removing the dehumidifier, all things looked better.  If he has the problem again, then using the above advice of Magnum to run ONLY the inverter in the default mode and also to remove the inductive load of the dehumidifier seems logical.  Bottom line.  I happened.  I don’t doubt his comments.  We had a semantics problem of turning off the inverter…it goes to stsndby but is still “on”….otherwise it would not allow the pass through ATS voltage… so “on” or in standby, the inverter is doing the same task.

I don’t know any logical way to describe his gremlin, except the inverter was handling a variety of loads….a second compressor and a fairly high fixed resistive load….and it just got confused,  I do NOT think he said it shut down or displayed a fault….his question was more of a Why are the Charging amps changing?  If he gets on 50 Amp power and want to experiment, my hunch is it will not display the same conditions….or it will…

 

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39 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

He does report that after removing the dehumidifier, all things looked better.  

 

Nope. Exactly the same draw on the batteries when I unplug the dehumidifier!

Myron, I too thought a display issue, till I heard the inverter hum, only when the space heater was set to 1100W output.

No hum from the inverter when the heater is on 700W setting, nor 1500W setting, and, as I explained, no DC amp draw displayed on the remote!

I'm hoping during travel season, I get to 'cocktail hour' close with a neighbor, who has the same Magnum inverter. The space heater is always in the coach ! 

If I was 'tech savvy ' enough to post a video, I could show the Magnum remote going from 0A, to 17A, just by switching the heater from 1500W to 1100W, but, I have no idea how to post a video.

Edited by 96 EVO
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I didn't indicate I think or thought it was a display issue. Just wanted the picture to perhaps glean that one tiny clue that sometimes solves these things. 

I use to play "20 questions", with customers. Asking them the same basic questions in different ways at different times. Having them with me while diagnosing a difficult problem. For some reason they would offer up some tiny bit of information they would always say they thought it was not important. However, that one tiny sliver of information could tie the thing together.

 

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