Loss power-front TV/DVD, etc 2004 Executive

[powersltc]

Ron P., 2004 Monaco Executive 

My entertainment system was working a couple of days ago.   Last night I tried the TV and no power.   The AVS200HD Smart Source does not light up.  

I've looked for fuses that would control but can't find. 

Any ideas/suggestions anyone?

 

Much Appreciated 

 

[Gospel]

22 minutes ago, powersltc said:

Ron P., 2004 Monaco Executive 

My entertainment system was working a couple of days ago.   Last night I tried the TV and no power.   The AVS200HD Smart Source does not light up.  

I've looked for fuses that would control but can't find. 

Any ideas/suggestions anyone?

 

Much Appreciated 

 

/when mine did not work the power interrupter in the bathroom next to the sink was out, reset and it worked fine. 

[waterskier_1]

You could have tripped the GFCI Breaker in the Inverter Power Sup-Panel.  Is the TV (entertainment system) the only thing that doesn't power up?  There is a fuse in the FRB that controls the TV inhibit relay (not allowing TV viewing while underway (when the ignition switch is on), but usually only the TV itself it plugged into that.

  -Rick N.

[Tom Cherry]

45 minutes ago, powersltc said:

Ron P., 2004 Monaco Executive 

My entertainment system was working a couple of days ago.   Last night I tried the TV and no power.   The AVS200HD Smart Source does not light up.  

I've looked for fuses that would control but can't find. 

Any ideas/suggestions anyone?

 

Much Appreciated 

 

There is a TV “Lock Out” device that the TV OR the TV outlet if fed from. It is usually behind or can be accessed from the rear of the TV cabinet.  Will be 2 small wires (DC Igntion) and two pieces of 120 VAC Romex cable.  When the ignition switch is ON, then there is a 12 VDC signal and the contacts on a relay open.  It is wired as “normally closed”, so you can watch TV when stopped. But turn on ignition and the relay opens a set of contacts and no 120:VAC power to the outlets or even an outlet box behind the TV in the cabinet.  These can fail.  There is, typically NO INLINE 120 VAC fuse.  Now the others that suggested looking at various places could be right, but if all your interior outlets work….and only the TV, odds are the box is dead.  If you are electrically inclined and proficient, find the box or lockout component and check incoming and outgoing voltage.  If there IS no incoming voltage and all the outlets work and no tripped GFCI or breakers, odds are, the junction box, upstream has a short or open circuit in it and not sending voltage to the lockout device.

Thats the way it works.  You can download the 2005 Executive prints from our files.  Put in WIRING & select FILES.  3 PAGES, but there is a great set there.

Good Luck

[TomV48]

5 hours ago, powersltc said:

Ron P., 2004 Monaco Executive 

My entertainment system was working a couple of days ago.   Last night I tried the TV and no power.   The AVS200HD Smart Source does not light up.  

I've looked for fuses that would control but can't find. 

Any ideas/suggestions anyone?

 

Much Appreciated 

 

My power up there is isolated with a CUT OFF to not work when the ignition is on.  So if your engine was running that may be the sudden problem

[powersltc]

No.  Engine not running. 

[TomV48]

I had about 8 extra feet of Romex behind the frig and there was a spurious connector on it that when it failed was a bear to find.  Made my Microwave dead.  No idea why the extra footage rolled up and can't even recall the name of those nasty little connectors with the lever that comes down on the stripped tips of the Romex.  I had to set a junction box and join the wires correctly in the box.  Lots of luck with Phantom electric.      You will find it and PLEASE,,, when you DO,,,,Let us all know what was the cause

Edited April 1, 2023 by TomV48

[powersltc]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:42 PM, Tom Cherry said:

There is a TV “Lock Out” device that the TV OR the TV outlet if fed from. It is usually behind or can be accessed from the rear of the TV cabinet.  Will be 2 small wires (DC Igntion) and two pieces of 120 VAC Romex cable.  When the ignition switch is ON, then there is a 12 VDC signal and the contacts on a relay open.  It is wired as “normally closed”, so you can watch TV when stopped. But turn on ignition and the relay opens a set of contacts and no 120:VAC power to the outlets or even an outlet box behind the TV in the cabinet.  These can fail.  There is, typically NO INLINE 120 VAC fuse.  Now the others that suggested looking at various places could be right, but if all your interior outlets work….and only the TV, odds are the box is dead.  If you are electrically inclined and proficient, find the box or lockout component and check incoming and outgoing voltage.  If there IS no incoming voltage and all the outlets work and no tripped GFCI or breakers, odds are, the junction box, upstream has a short or open circuit in it and not sending voltage to the lockout device.

Thats the way it works.  You can download the 2005 Executive prints from our files.  Put in WIRING & select FILES.  3 PAGES, but there is a great set there.

Good Luck

I plugged a phone charger into outlet where the AVS200HD and vcr, No power.   Charger works elsewhere in the coach. 

Outlets above dash don't work. 

[waterskier_1]

Have you checked the GFCI Breaker in the Inverter Sub Panel?  It would be helpful ir you report back what action you have take, and the results to help narrow down troubleshooting.  I have an 05 Exec and the electric systems are the same. 

  -Rick N 

[powersltc]

 

1 hour ago, waterskier_1 said:

Have you checked the GFCI Breaker in the Inverter Sub Panel?  It would be helpful ir you report back what action you have take, and the results to help narrow down troubleshooting.  I have an 05 Exec and the electric systems are the same. 

  -Rick N 

I flipped all the breakers.

On 3/30/2023 at 3:42 PM, Tom Cherry said:

There is a TV “Lock Out” device that the TV OR the TV outlet if fed from. It is usually behind or can be accessed from the rear of the TV cabinet.  Will be 2 small wires (DC Igntion) and two pieces of 120 VAC Romex cable.  When the ignition switch is ON, then there is a 12 VDC signal and the contacts on a relay open.  It is wired as “normally closed”, so you can watch TV when stopped. But turn on ignition and the relay opens a set of contacts and no 120:VAC power to the outlets or even an outlet box behind the TV in the cabinet.  These can fail.  There is, typically NO INLINE 120 VAC fuse.  Now the others that suggested looking at various places could be right, but if all your interior outlets work….and only the TV, odds are the box is dead.  If you are electrically inclined and proficient, find the box or lockout component and check incoming and outgoing voltage.  If there IS no incoming voltage and all the outlets work and no tripped GFCI or breakers, odds are, the junction box, upstream has a short or open circuit in it and not sending voltage to the lockout device.

Thats the way it works.  You can download the 2005 Executive prints from our files.  Put in WIRING & select FILES.  3 PAGES, but there is a great set there.

Good Luck

I plugged a phone charger into outlet where the AVS200HD and vcr, No power.   Charger works elsewhere in the coach. 

Outlets above dash don't work. 

[waterskier_1]

The top GFCI Breaker (in position 2 from the top - position 1 is empty) is the breaker that controls the following outlets:

  Lamp Table, Armrest, Entertainment, Plasma TV, Power Curtain (Opt), Bed and Bay TVs.  

Can you check if any of these other outlet/devices work?  If they don't, then you likely have a breaker problem.  If some do work, then you have a wiring problem.  It is not uncommon to have a daisy-chained outlet connection be bad, eliminating all the outlets downstream of that outlet.  

I'm attaching a drawing of the wiring, which includes the series of the daisy-chain so you can check for voltage at each outlet in the chain, in order.  Note that the TV is the last outlet in the series.

  -Rick N.

2005 Exec 110VAC wiring.pdf

[powersltc]

I guess the breaker is bad and needs replacing. 

I ran an extension cord to entertainment items(TV, AVS200HD) and everything works. 

I appreciate all the help. 

Thanks.

 

 

On 3/30/2023 at 3:42 PM, Tom Cherry said:

There is a TV “Lock Out” device that the TV OR the TV outlet if fed from. It is usually behind or can be accessed from the rear of the TV cabinet.  Will be 2 small wires (DC Igntion) and two pieces of 120 VAC Romex cable.  When the ignition switch is ON, then there is a 12 VDC signal and the contacts on a relay open.  It is wired as “normally closed”, so you can watch TV when stopped. But turn on ignition and the relay opens a set of contacts and no 120:VAC power to the outlets or even an outlet box behind the TV in the cabinet.  These can fail.  There is, typically NO INLINE 120 VAC fuse.  Now the others that suggested looking at various places could be right, but if all your interior outlets work….and only the TV, odds are the box is dead.  If you are electrically inclined and proficient, find the box or lockout component and check incoming and outgoing voltage.  If there IS no incoming voltage and all the outlets work and no tripped GFCI or breakers, odds are, the junction box, upstream has a short or open circuit in it and not sending voltage to the lockout device.

Thats the way it works.  You can download the 2005 Executive prints from our files.  Put in WIRING & select FILES.  3 PAGES, but there is a great set there.

Good Luck

I plugged a phone charger into outlet where the AVS200HD and vcr, No power.   Charger works elsewhere in the coach. 

Outlets above dash don't work. 

[Ivylog]

Check the pin breakers on your inverter.

[powersltc]

Ron P.   2004 Monaco Executive. 

 

I tried looking for the lockout but not able to locate.   I flipped the breaker and not change. 

Outlets from the seats forward don't work. 

 

[waterskier_1]

2 hours ago, powersltc said:

Ron P.   2004 Monaco Executive. 

 

I tried looking for the lockout but not able to locate.   I flipped the breaker and not change. 

Outlets from the seats forward don't work. 

 

It more than the TV itself is not working, then it is NOT the Lockout Relay.  Did you look at the wiring diagram I posted above?  It shows the route the wire takes getting to the TV outlet.  If you check the outlets, in order, it will likely reveal where the loss of power is occurring. 

  -Rick N.

Currently in Tucson

[Tom Cherry]

13 hours ago, powersltc said:

Ron P.   2004 Monaco Executive. 

 

I tried looking for the lockout but not able to locate.   I flipped the breaker and not change. 

Outlets from the seats forward don't work. 

 

Don't know how your TV is mounted and such.  The Lockout will have a piece of Romex cable coming in and going out.  It will have two smaller control wires.  Mine was a "box looking" thing.  All it is is a 12 VDC relay.  Then 12 VDC from the ignition is applied, then the internal relay closes....and it locks out the TV. When you find it, you will need a VOM to test it. First test for 12 VDC voltage. I don't know how, when in a CG, one would get 12 VDC from the ignition switch....but verify.  If there is NO 12 VDC on the two small control wires, then check the contacts on the relay. the relay should be NC (Normally Closed).  Therefore, if you test each set of 12 VAC contacts, you should have power on both sides.  If you have 12 VDC on one set of contacts and none on the other.....it is the relay. PERSONALLY, I would just use two wire nuts and attach the white to white and the black to black.  Make sure you TWIST TIGHT...and that should fix it. 

NOW, if you do NOT have ANY 120 VAC power, then there is an outlet, upstream that has failed.

[powersltc]

Thanks a bunch.  I'm on the road and won't be home until 20 April.   Didn't want to dig too deep and get stranded somewhere. 

T

[VinceB]

On 3/30/2023 at 12:07 PM, Gospel said:

/when mine did not work the power interrupter in the bathroom next to the sink was out, reset and it worked fine. 

Same here. But it kept tripping. I noticed that the ice maker is on the same circuit. Unplugged the fridge and it stopped tripping.
 

Next step is to unplug ice maker to figure out if it’s the ice maker or fridge. last time it was the ice maker and I hope it’s the same thing again. 

[Tom Cherry]

30 minutes ago, VinceB said:

Same here. But it kept tripping. I noticed that the ice maker is on the same circuit. Unplugged the fridge and it stopped tripping.
 

Next step is to unplug ice maker to figure out if it’s the ice maker or fridge. last time it was the ice maker and I hope it’s the same thing again. 

NOPE.  The issue is a poor design by Monaco.  if you changed out the dedicated circuit breaker in your home panel for your refrigerator to a GFCI, OR if you replaced the receptacle with a GFCI, odds are it will drive you crazy.  Refrigerators have small heaters in the doors for defrost and your icemaker has a heating coil in the mold.  Eventually or even right from the factory, there is a “leak” or some minute milliamp current if flowing through the ceramic insulation in those heaters.  The GFCI interprets that as a “unsafe”condition and you get a false positive “trip”.  That is why the NEC specifically does not allow (now some idiots in some municipalities that think they are smarter than UL & NEC have been known to require it and after the inspection, the electrician removes it) a GFCI on a dedicated REFRIGERATOR or MICROWAVE circuit.

What the fix is, is what I posted.  Check the GFCI.  Replace as they get tired and crotchety.  Test and isolate the icemaker receptacle and put on the LOAD or top side.

Some folks can’t do that as Monaco cheats and ran a loop.  Their solution is a separate 800 - 1000 W Auxiliary inverter….but it must NOT have a GFCI outlet.  Some have replaced the GFCI outlet and resolved the issues.

This is a discussion that dates back to 2009 when I joined and folks are concerned over the “safety” of moving the icemaker circuit to the load side, where it should have been, to meet NEC, in the first place.

Hope this helps….

[VinceB]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

NOPE.  The issue is a poor design by Monaco.  if you changed out the dedicated circuit breaker in your home panel for your refrigerator to a GFCI, OR if you replaced the receptacle with a GFCI, odds are it will drive you crazy.  Refrigerators have small heaters in the doors for defrost and your icemaker has a heating coil in the mold.  Eventually or even right from the factory, there is a “leak” or some minute milliamp current if flowing through the ceramic insulation in those heaters.  The GFCI interprets that as a “unsafe”condition and you get a false positive “trip”.  That is why the NEC specifically does not allow (now some idiots in some municipalities that think they are smarter than UL & NEC have been known to require it and after the inspection, the electrician removes it) a GFCI on a dedicated REFRIGERATOR or MICROWAVE circuit.

What the fix is, is what I posted.  Check the GFCI.  Replace as they get tired and crotchety.  Test and isolate the icemaker receptacle and put on the LOAD or top side.

Some folks can’t do that as Monaco cheats and ran a loop.  Their solution is a separate 800 - 1000 W Auxiliary inverter….but it must NOT have a GFCI outlet.  Some have replaced the GFCI outlet and resolved the issues.

This is a discussion that dates back to 2009 when I joined and folks are concerned over the “safety” of moving the icemaker circuit to the load side, where it should have been, to meet NEC, in the first place.

Hope this helps….

Thanks for the information.  I'll definitely put the circuit on the load side.

Not being well-versed in 110v wiring, I don’t understand what you mean by “Monaco cheats and ran a loop” though. 

[VinceB]

On 4/15/2023 at 10:55 AM, Tom Cherry said:

NOPE.  The issue is a poor design by Monaco.  if you changed out the dedicated circuit breaker in your home panel for your refrigerator to a GFCI, OR if you replaced the receptacle with a GFCI, odds are it will drive you crazy.  Refrigerators have small heaters in the doors for defrost and your icemaker has a heating coil in the mold.  Eventually or even right from the factory, there is a “leak” or some minute milliamp current if flowing through the ceramic insulation in those heaters.  The GFCI interprets that as a “unsafe”condition and you get a false positive “trip”.  That is why the NEC specifically does not allow (now some idiots in some municipalities that think they are smarter than UL & NEC have been known to require it and after the inspection, the electrician removes it) a GFCI on a dedicated REFRIGERATOR or MICROWAVE circuit.

What the fix is, is what I posted.  Check the GFCI.  Replace as they get tired and crotchety.  Test and isolate the icemaker receptacle and put on the LOAD or top side.

Some folks can’t do that as Monaco cheats and ran a loop.  Their solution is a separate 800 - 1000 W Auxiliary inverter….but it must NOT have a GFCI outlet.  Some have replaced the GFCI outlet and resolved the issues.

This is a discussion that dates back to 2009 when I joined and folks are concerned over the “safety” of moving the icemaker circuit to the load side, where it should have been, to meet NEC, in the first place.

Hope this helps….

UPDATE:

Yes, that was it - thank you for the help.

I re-wired the GFCI - took the fridge/TV circuit off the load side and put it on the line side.  Everything working as it should now.

It is interesting to note that if I plug the coach into the 15a circuit in my RV bay which is on a GFCI, it will trip. If I plug into the 50a that has no GFCI everything is fine.

[Tom Cherry]

58 minutes ago, VinceB said:

UPDATE:

Yes, that was it - thank you for the help.

I re-wired the GFCI - took the fridge/TV circuit off the load side and put it on the line side.  Everything working as it should now.

It is interesting to note that if I plug the coach into the 15a circuit in my RV bay which is on a GFCI, it will trip. If I plug into the 50a that has no GFCI everything is fine.

Not interesting…..fact.  Magnum says (in 2009….no less), trying to run a MH on a 15 A or even 20 A GFCI is a lower’s hand.  You need to read the Magnum 101 file on setup.  In addition, you will need to downrate or set back the Shore.  Search Watts MUST be off.  Ordinarily, you always leave the Shore on 30 A.  That is based in the Breaker feeding the Magnum.  BUT, if you are on a lower rated circuit, say 15 Amp, you have to set it for the CB controlling the source….as in 15 A.

You also need to turn down the charging rate.  Kill all the parasitic loads….like unplugging all the HEC devices.  I keep a poser strip on each end for that.  Magnum says to downrate the shore to 10….then 5….still strips, forget it.

Glad you were able to rewire.  Sometimes you can’t.  If 3 Romex’s then odds are TV and such are on the extra….so you did as was correct….put on LINE.  There is no code or safety issue.

Good job.

[VinceB]

11 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Not interesting…..fact.  Magnum says (in 2009….no less), trying to run a MH on a 15 A or even 20 A GFCI is a lower’s hand.  You need to read the Magnum 101 file on setup.  In addition, you will need to downrate or set back the Shore.  Search Watts MUST be off.  Ordinarily, you always leave the Shore on 30 A.  That is based in the Breaker feeding the Magnum.  BUT, if you are on a lower rated circuit, say 15 Amp, you have to set it for the CB controlling the source….as in 15 A.

You also need to turn down the charging rate.  Kill all the parasitic loads….like unplugging all the HEC devices.  I keep a poser strip on each end for that.  Magnum says to downrate the shore to 10….then 5….still strips, forget it.

Glad you were able to rewire.  Sometimes you can’t.  If 3 Romex’s then odds are TV and such are on the extra….so you did as was correct….put on LINE.  There is no code or safety issue.

Good job.

Mine is a Xantrex.

I'm not running the coach per se - just leaving it plugged in so the batteries stay up. The amps draw seldom if ever goes above 9 and that's for a few minutes while on bulk charge.

I'd never attempt to run AC, water heater or such on 15a but when I want to I can get the big cord out (PITA) and get 50a which is why I have both. If what I'm doing is inadvisable, I'll figure out something else.

Rewiring was no fun. There's not much room nor slack to work with and the romex and wire are stiff.

[TomV48]

5 hours ago, VinceB said:

UPDATE:

Yes, that was it - thank you for the help.

I re-wired the GFCI - took the fridge/TV circuit off the load side and put it on the line side.  Everything working as it should now.

It is interesting to note that if I plug the coach into the 15a circuit in my RV bay which is on a GFCI, it will trip. If I plug into the 50a that has no GFCI everything is fine.

My theory, only anecdotally, is that such problems involve one or both GFCI's being wired/ interfaced wrong

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, TomV48 said:

My theory, only anecdotally, is that such problems involve one or both GFCI's being wired/ interfaced wrong

Sorry about the formatting error…..

Per a lot of sessions with Magnum…..The issue is that the MH’s have “phantom grounds” or seemingly “leaking circuits”.  The water heater and and icemaker as well as the optional Aquahot boiler all have a heater coil.  If there is a minute leakage….certainly not a dead short and hardly a lethal condition, it will trip a GFCI. If you want to drive yourself or someone crazy, take out the dedicated breaker in your home panel and install a GFCI or swap out the receptacle where the refrigerator is plugged in to a GFCI or run a short extension cord with the refrigerator plugged into it and plug it into a kitchen GFCI.  Then wait a day or maybe up to a week.  Wherever the GFCI, IT WILL TRIP. 

Expand  

NOW, as far as the tripping of a home GFCI, the older the GFCI, the quicker it will trip as they get more sensitive and can’t discern a hazardous condition (one they are really supposed to catch, as they age.  I’m willing to wager that at least half of the “Internal” GFCI posts we have hear are age related….or possibly a off grand non tested by Magnum and non compatible.  Maybe 75%.  The other pertain to the “miswiring” of a refrigerator and putting it’s icemaker circuit on the GFCI that the Magnum feeds the interior outlets (ones by code within 6 feet) of a source of water.

The other issue, not seen here much…but occasionally, someone gets overly protective and adds a downstream GFCI to a circuit already GFCI protected.  I had a buddy that was an electrical contractor, State licensed.  He said about 2 or 3 tines a year, a BIL or someone that had become an expert electrician via YouTube would  mistakenly or by design, replace a downstream receptacle that was on the load  side of an upstream GFCI with a second GFCI.

These critters are strange.  For example, i know, as i have tested my entire electrical system and also have a functioning Progressive hard wired surge suppressor that my electrical system is fine.  Never tripped a 50 Amp Breaker in any campround and that number exceeds 100 and inout in my own 50 A service at home.  So my system if FINE….  But a buddy with an 08 Navigator has a business that he needs to use a 50 A heated steam cleaner (outside).  He said it took the licensed contractor a couple of times to “get it working”.  He uses that when he drives his MH to that location.  The 50 A works for his MH & the pressure steam cleaner.  Mine tripped the breaker ( 50 ) A.  We never could get it to work.  Why my MH tripped?  Nary a clue…..but it did.  He said he never had pedestal issues…

So, who knows….hope this helps explain what i think is correct and got from Magnum as well as my own background…