Replacing Whirlpool house refrigerator with 1210 Norcold

[Guest Al redcay]

I have a friend here that rebuilt his 1200 with Amish kit & he said he wasted his money & is going residential. 

[saflyer]

23 hours ago, CorinthWest said:

In the unlikely event you want to stay with a NotSoCold, I have a complete 1200LRIM in working condition, WITH manuals - FREE to the first person who shows up with a truck (yes, I am still trying to get this off my porch - LOL).

Where are you located?

21 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

You must have a special reason to not want a house fridge. A backwards change.

I went to a 17cf Whirlpool when I replaced my Norcold 1210. Later I learned about the 12 volt conversion for the Norcold. Since I like to boondock on solar I might have gone that route even though it would have been considerably more expensive despite the cost of cabinetry for the Whirlpool. I do seem to have enough solar power for my righ in the summer that might not be the case in the winter.

Ed          
‘05 HR Ambassador 

[David Pratt]

At first I thought that that the post was a late April Fools Joke. Maybe the OP has a death wish or is suicidal.💀

[CorinthWest]

1 hour ago, saflyer said:

Where are you located?

Ed, we are about 35 miles north of Abilene, Texas.  Come and get 'er - she's all yours

-R

Edited April 6, 2023 by CorinthWest

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

I removed what I thought was a perfectly fine Norcold about 5 years ago. It had all the recalls done so we thought it was safe, but Katherine got spooked by all the fires that had/were happening.  I was surprised by the burnt spot on the back of the fridge. It was only a matter of time before it went up in flames like many others. 

[scottjo02]

Ivylog

Do you use this additional 100 amp charger at the same time as the regular inverter charger? Also how did you wire it up to the batteries?

thanks,

Scott

 

[jacwjames]

Back several years ago when the Monacoers were on Yahoo there was several discussions on battery charging and adding a second inverter for the refrigerator. 

Bill G was a big contributor and provided some great advice, which I copied and pasted into word documents for future reference.  He added a second inverter to power the refrigerator and augment charging.  He installed a Aims inverter, and provided reasoning for this inverter and install.  See attached, I assume this is OK since it came off the Yahoo Monaocers onto the new site of Monacoers.   Off line Bill also answered several questions.  These were posted in ~2018/9

FWIW, I did install a second inverter in 2021 after I had a problem with my Trace RV2102.  I had to cut my trip short since I could keep batteries charged using the generator.   I didn't install exactly as Bill's description but close.   I left both outlets available behind the Samsung and normally have it plugged into the outlet this comes off the Trace.  The other outlet, which was off the breaker for the icemaker, I revised the wiring by using that circuit and installed an outlet behind the bedroom TV where I installed the 2nd Inverter.  I then added a plug to the circuit going to behind the fridge and a female plug end to the inverter.  I powered the inverter from a 12 volt stud which provided the power to the house circuits.  So if I want to run the refrigerator off the small inverter I just have to move plugs and turn on the small inverter.   It can also assist in battery charging.  I haven't used it much yet but it's there if I need it which was the original intent.  

 

 

2nd inverter from Yahoo Monacoers.docx Report on second psw inverter for Samsung rf18.docx

[scottjo02]

jacwjames

Thanks. There is a lot of good information there. Glad you saved it from the old site. I saved some, but not everything that applied to my situation. And my needs are different today. I will certainly explore a second charger since my charging time with a 75 amp inverter charge is slow when dry camping.

Scott

 

•  

[waterskier_1]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Back several years ago when the Monacoers were on Yahoo there was several discussions on battery charging and adding a second inverter for the refrigerator. 

Bill G was a big contributor and provided some great advice, which I copied and pasted into word documents for future reference.  He added a second inverter to power the refrigerator and augment charging.  He installed a Aims inverter, and provided reasoning for this inverter and install.  See attached, I assume this is OK since it came off the Yahoo Monaocers onto the new site of Monacoers.   Off line Bill also answered several questions.  These were posted in ~2018/9

FWIW, I did install a second inverter in 2021 after I had a problem with my Trace RV2102.  I had to cut my trip short since I could keep batteries charged using the generator.   I didn't install exactly as Bill's description but close.   I left both outlets available behind the Samsung and normally have it plugged into the outlet this comes off the Trace.  The other outlet, which was off the breaker for the icemaker, I revised the wiring by using that circuit and installed an outlet behind the bedroom TV where I installed the 2nd Inverter.  I then added a plug to the circuit going to behind the fridge and a female plug end to the inverter.  I powered the inverter from a 12 volt stud which provided the power to the house circuits.  So if I want to run the refrigerator off the small inverter I just have to move plugs and turn on the small inverter.   It can also assist in battery charging.  I haven't used it much yet but it's there if I need it which was the original intent.  

 

 

2nd inverter from Yahoo Monacoers.docx 15.14 kB · 3 downloads Report on second psw inverter for Samsung rf18.docx 18.31 kB · 4 downloads

I also discussed these posts with Bill G.  I was more interested in the additional charger than an additional inverter since I didn't (and still don't) have a residential refrigerator.  While I believe the inverter hypothesis is still somewhat valid for serious dry-camping with a residential refrigerator, there are advances since Bill wrote this. 

First, and possibly most important are LiFePO4 batteries.  At the time I was discussing this with Bill, I had Lifeline AGM batteries.  They batteries had sufficient capacity to run what I needed overnight, but I was finding that I was running the generator for hours the next day to recharge them.  That's when Bill reminded me something I knew from design, but didn't apply in my real life situation - Never try to recharge (on generator) a FLA (Flooded Lead Acid) or AGM the last 15% - 20% SOC.  It can take literally hours to charge the batteries (depending on battery capacity and number of batteries) that last 20%  It's not worth the fuel used.  Just make sure that you have enough capacity remaining to get you through the night.  So, I was considering another battery charger to expedite charging my AGM's, but I don't think it would have helped much, because my existing Inverter/Charger was not running at Max after Bulk mode.  Additional current would not have been accepted by the batteries (safely), especially once they transitioned to float.  They were Floating at 8 - 10 Amps from 80% SOC.  Before I got a chance to add the charger, my AGM's unexpectedly went TU.  It was not the normal failure mode, but Lifeline confirmed that some do fail like mine did.  I was already planning (as I think Bill was too) of "experimenting" with LiFePO4 batteries, but not a wholesale replacement.  Well, that changed.  I built on 285+ AHr LifePO4 battery with cells purchased directly from China (before Corona).  I built my own battery, because I live in Colorado, and it would be stored well below 32°F for weeks on end.  I need internal heaters, which I could control.  But that's another story.  After I built the first LiFePO4 battery, I found something that isn't talked about a lot.  Sure, you can discharge them from 100% down to below 10% routinely, but the charging is what sold me.  After Deep Discharge Testing, to determine actual Amp-Hour capacity, I let my inverter/charger recharge.  I was monitoring closely, and things started getting warm - warmer than I wanted during this testing.  The single 285+ AHr battery was drawing the full 125 Amps my Charger could output, and both the battery BMS and the Charger were getting warm.  I restricted the max charge current to 85 Amps, and things  cooled to an acceptable value.  But, to my amazement, it continued charging at max current all the way to about 98% SOC (things were not fully calibrated on the test, since I was looking more at capacity, so it might have been higher).   This is so much different from the charging curve my AGM had where they would start around 100 Amps, but quickly drop to less then 50 Amps in a half-hour, and continue to drop as they charged up.  So, with LiFePO4 batteries, I could recharge overnight use in less than 2 hours - without solar.  I was so impressed that I built another identical battery.  I can now, with 1300 Watts Solar, in sunny Arizona in the winter, go without running the generator, except for cooking.  I won't run the convection over for hours off the batteries.  I won't run the coffee pot, the toaster, and the electric griddle, all at the same time (although it will support it).  I do fire up the generator for cooking if I need those appliances, and usually let it run 45 - 60 minutes, even if not needed all that time.  

Bottom Line:  I found with LiFePO4 batteries that I didn't need, (and likely couldn't use) an additional charger with just 580 AHr battery capacity.  I don't think it would have helped with my AGM's either, but I only had 4, while Bill had 8, so he theoretically could use twice the charging capacity.  If I increase my battery capacity, I don't think an additional charger will be necessary, since the full solar capacity is used.  Before, after around noon, I only charged at 10 - 15 Amps after Bulk (AGMs).  Now, I charge at 30 Amps until charged, which has always occurred before I ran out of sun, except once, when I had 6" - 8" of snow on the solar panels, and was out of town, followed by over a week of no sun. 

  -Rick N. 

[Tom Cherry]

FWIW...my gut feel from posts and the gathering......90% run off the original inverter.  Location has a big influence.  IF one choses to go ADDITIONAL, then you must be near the OEM inverter or the buss....otherwise the cable runs of 2/0 cables and crimping are excessive.  Better to run 120 VAC Romex to Res Refer.  In addition, choose an inverter with a low battery cut off of around 10 VDC....and a Turn on or return to inverter of 11.5 or higher VDC....otherwise, you run the risk of damaging the Res Refer by constant on and off.  The Magnum cuts off and goes into "Fault" mode so it doesn't come back on when a weak battery set gets a temporary voltage boost from a rest.  next up is to NOT buy an inverter with a GFCI.  It will false positive trip and shut down.  That is why we recommend rewiring, if possible to get ResRefer off GFCI circuit.

From a pure technical and use basis, if you boondock with a huge solar array or large battery bank and run other high demand devices, you might need a second inverrter.  but the 10 - 15% loss in inverter capacity is not really noticed.  now, if you can't easily get inverted power to the Res Refer, then maybe a second inverter

I was going the second inverter method after debating with the late ((RIP) Bill G.  We differed on inverter parameters.  then i chased down the install and rewired my icemaker circuit to NON GFCI and stepped back and looked at my needs.  Then i joined the 90% that don't add a second inverter.

Thoroughly read and assess your needs and cost and do it based what works best for you.

[jacwjames]

The issue that drove me to a second inverter was when I had an electrical problem, one of the circuits that feed off the inverter caused the generator to die.  I was on the road, it was hotter then blazes and I couldn't run the generator even for AC.   So I cut my trip short and drove ~700 miles home and dug into the problem, that's when I isolated the problem to one circuit. 

So in my case the second inverter is mostly serving as a spare just in case.  I've only used it a couple times to make sure everything worked, at some point I'll do some tests to see the difference in power usage between the two inverters.