Tire balance Beads?

[veraken]

I'm getting ready to install the Centramatics on the steer tires of my MH.  Do I need to still have the tires spun balanced first? 

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, veraken said:

I'm getting ready to install the Centramatics on the steer tires of my MH.  Do I need to still have the tires spun balanced first? 

Have you read the manual on them?  From what a learned individual, who actually dismounts and mounts his own tires….and was an avid Dynabeads supporter, but has switched to the Centramatics…NO.  You want the dealer to strip off all wheel weights (clip and stick on) and let them (Centramatics) do the job.  
 

I had to “educate” a tech that did not remove weights from the rim and then was getting ready to add 12”.  DUH.  Start with a Virgin wheel and new tire.  When he did, it took less weight, in a different spot, than was on there before.

MODERATOR’S COMMENT TO ALL.

Tone down the rhetoric and keep this low key.  

Thanks.

[waterskier_1]

20 hours ago, Rikadoo said:

Wait a minute im callin BS on the “cost” cause were not drivin a Prius here an this reasoning beads vs Centro-Matic’s…

i will state that what i understand about MY centrematics is they balance the rotating mass, that they lend a certain amt to the tires however some tires have heavy spots that require a basic balance to overcome the majority. So if you use the beads AND centermatics your doin everything to achieve true balance

I respectfully take offence to you calling my reasoning BS.  I can afford my 05 Exec because I was raised, and continue to watch every penny I spend.  I could not afford to buy a $500,000 coach new, but could used.  The Centrematic's are (from each manufacturer's website) almost twice the cost of Dyna Beads.  Both are reusable on future tires.  Both do the job very well.  Initial installation of both likely would require a Tire Shop.  If I spent twice as much just because someone thought a different product was just as good, I would not be able to travel in my coach.  BTW, I would NEVER own a Prius.

End of rant.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Tucson, AZ 

[Rikadoo]

Well Rick the reason for my decription was not to offend, at all! Instead my reasoning was to say that EVERYONE on this rock that we live on that has purchased a RV knows wither its a DIY project or take it to the shop… your gonna be spending $$$ and that includes the fithly rich that travel like the rest of only dream about, or the poor slobs like me who sometimes only get to take it out once or twice a year… MAYBE! 
So let me clairify when i said i call BS ON THE COST, that statement came from TWO places in my mind, the first is from the safety aspect, in that as a wobbly wheel creates worn componits, that knowledge come from the 10 years of working on OTR truck an trailers, that fighting with trying to figure out if the problem came from a problem tire OR a out of balance rotating mass like a brake drum which when it comes to SPENDING $$$ you should of seen what we used to spend trying to save the tires from having to be thrown AWAY from there irregular wear. Then the second issue is the cost of replacing the tires due to “ its only a balance” problem for those who dont understand a regular automobile NEVER see’s these problem due to the wieght of there rotating mass, just compare to the massive wieght difference of that of OUR rvs suspension. 
Its funny how the novice can look at there Rvs suspension with that of a deer looking at a set of headlights, whear as someone who is trying solve a problem looks at it from a challange in how to solve the problem. An frankly i would have givin my Left nut had i been the one to invent the centermatics, cause if i had i would have been one of the filth rich paying to have MY coach repaired😎 To all you on this blog who contribute to our being able to learn about and fix our “toys” i want to say thank you, this community is AWSOME and the knowledge base that we collectively have is truly essential to keeping these rigs on the road always looking for our happy travels wither its your daily driver or for the guys who only gets to use it once or twice a year…

 

[waterskier_1]

1 hour ago, Rikadoo said:

Well Rick the reason for my decription was not to offend, at all! Instead my reasoning was to say that EVERYONE on this rock that we live on that has purchased a RV knows wither its a DIY project or take it to the shop… your gonna be spending $$$ and that includes the fithly rich that travel like the rest of only dream about, or the poor slobs like me who sometimes only get to take it out once or twice a year… MAYBE! 
So let me clairify when i said i call BS ON THE COST, that statement came from TWO places in my mind, the first is from the safety aspect, in that as a wobbly wheel creates worn componits, that knowledge come from the 10 years of working on OTR truck an trailers, that fighting with trying to figure out if the problem came from a problem tire OR a out of balance rotating mass like a brake drum which when it comes to SPENDING $$$ you should of seen what we used to spend trying to save the tires from having to be thrown AWAY from there irregular wear. Then the second issue is the cost of replacing the tires due to “ its only a balance” problem for those who dont understand a regular automobile NEVER see’s these problem due to the wieght of there rotating mass, just compare to the massive wieght difference of that of OUR rvs suspension. 
Its funny how the novice can look at there Rvs suspension with that of a deer looking at a set of headlights, whear as someone who is trying solve a problem looks at it from a challange in how to solve the problem. An frankly i would have givin my Left nut had i been the one to invent the centermatics, cause if i had i would have been one of the filth rich paying to have MY coach repaired😎 To all you on this blog who contribute to our being able to learn about and fix our “toys” i want to say thank you, this community is AWSOME and the knowledge base that we collectively have is truly essential to keeping these rigs on the road always looking for our happy travels wither its your daily driver or for the guys who only gets to use it once or twice a year…

 

Rik, I agree with all the above.  You present a good argument for why to balance.  But the question Gary asked was:

On 4/19/2023 at 2:51 PM, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Why wouldn't anyone want to switch to Centramatic? Does anyone have anything to say about the Centramatics?

Gary 05 AMB DST

 

I took this to be switch to Centramatics versus Dana Beads.  My response below was to say that I (and many) went with the Dana Beads vs Centramatics because of the cost.  The Dana Beads are roughly one-half the cost.  And no one has shown objective evidence that they don't work just as well.  When I read your BS response, I read it to say "you have a high end coach, you have money coming out your ears, you have no reason to skimp on a low cost (relative to the cost of the coach) item, if you can't afford the best, you shouldn't be driving a high end coach".  I have heard that sentiment from other Monaco owners.  I do take offence to that sentiment.

On 4/19/2023 at 5:27 PM, waterskier_1 said:

Cost.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Deming, NM

Reading your response, I think you were interpreting the original question as "why bother to balance at all", versus "why switch to Centramatics from Dana Beads".  I could be wrong on my interpretation, but I didn't find any questioning as to should I balance, but rather seeking recommendations on which product to use.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Deming, NM 

[David Pratt]

When a member posts a question about purchasing a product and wanting the groups experience about a that product, any member responding should post about their experience and recommendation about the particular product they are using and refrain from comparisons on the other products available for the same purpose unless the member has personal experience with those products.

There are many manufacturers that produce different products to balance tires on an RV and all of them can do the job. Maybe one product can/will outperform another and that is where personal experience is valuable in reviewing/recommending an individual product to other members. What ever the cost of that product is not the most important, what is, does it perform as advertised and do those with the experience of using the product confirm it does.

Having the many choices that we have to be able to purchase different products that do a certain job can fit the wallet and needs of the RV owner. We all try to purchase a product that works as advertised and will pay what we are comfortable with. Our Safety and Comfort is the most important consideration in operating these monsters. WE, as individuals have to determine as what we want to spend for that result.

With over thirty years of RV'ing experience I know what works for me on my coach and I will spend what I am comfortable with an can afford. I will post my recommendations based on my research and experience. I will suggest new products that works for me, but everyone should do there research and due diligence before making a purchase of any product.

I have been an avid fan of DYNABEADS for and still recommend them for balancing the tires. The other balancing bead products that claim to perform as well do not based on the personal experience of other members who have used them. Centra-matics and the Balance Masters are also a good choice and perform as advertised and many members that have them installed on their coaches have had great success with them. They are a good alternative to the Balance Beads, but are more expensive. Last month I replaced mt Steer Tires on my coach and decided to try the Balance Masters and I am not disappointed. My steer tires are 365R60x22.5. I still have the Dynabeads installed in the drive and tag tires.

I appreciate all the contributions by the members of this group. The depth of our knowledge base sometimes is overwhelming. 

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

On 4/19/2023 at 4:51 PM, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Why wouldn't anyone want to switch to Centramatic? Does anyone have anything to say about the Centramatics?

Gary 05 AMB DST

 

Rik, Thanks for showing up in the discussion. I don't have the knowledge to try to defend Centramatic. I just buy the tires and add what I think will help. That's why I mentioned anti-seize coating on the Centramatic or drum on front and coat the rears to prevent a rust caused bond that would hurt the Centre by a as__ole installer.

Gary 05 AMB DST

Let a clump of beads throw a tire out of balance and "maybe" need a new tire.

Gary 05 AMB DST 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Rik, I agree with all the above.  You present a good argument for why to balance.  But the question Gary asked was:

I took this to be switch to Centramatics versus Dana Beads.  My response below was to say that I (and many) went with the Dana Beads vs Centramatics because of the cost.  The Dana Beads are roughly one-half the cost.  And no one has shown objective evidence that they don't work just as well.  When I read your BS response, I read it to say "you have a high end coach, you have money coming out your ears, you have no reason to skimp on a low cost (relative to the cost of the coach) item, if you can't afford the best, you shouldn't be driving a high end coach".  I have heard that sentiment from other Monaco owners.  I do take offence to that sentiment.

Reading your response, I think you were interpreting the original question as "why bother to balance at all", versus "why switch to Centramatics from Dana Beads".  I could be wrong on my interpretation, but I didn't find any questioning as to should I balance, but rather seeking recommendations on which product to use.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Deming, NM 

Cool.  My experience and also input from the Bridgestone Commercial Tire Engineering Manager whom I corresponded with and talked to and he was also a MH owner was this.  He also wrote their “Tire tips and questions” column.

Spin balance the fronts.  No balance on the rears…not even bubble.  I am on my third set of tires.  Don’t know how the OEM Monaco GY were balanced, but the rears did have weights.  Put on Bridgestones.  Spin front.  No balance rears.  Have Toyo’s spin front.  Outside rears bubble,  insides None…the stems were too long.

I can’t tell any difference in the driving or ride.  20K on GY.  33K on Bridgestones…front and 45k on rears.  12K on front Toyos and 2 K on rears.

For those here that Mount and dismount,,,the Cettramarics would make sense to me…but the rears…as is.

Folks need to do what they think is best and in line with their pocketbooks….

[bftownes]

On 4/11/2023 at 6:57 AM, Gweedo said:

Good morning all, I'm about to purchase the Toyo M144 most equivalent my now 7=YO Michelins.   My question is,  the tire shop said they use "bead" balancing.  I hadn't heard of this process until I spoke with a buddy.  I guess he has an issue with one wheel every time he fills with air, apparently a bead becomes lodged in the stem not allowing it to seal.  He's got to try over n over until he gets it.  

Have any of you had the bead balancing in place of the normal weighted balancing, isues/no issues with the stems or tire wear?

 

Thnx

In 2000, I ordered a new  2001 Diplomat LE to full-time in.  Did it for 10 years (that was enough).  I had a trusted truck tire dealer, who also had a diesel pusher.  When I bought new tires, he talked me into the balancing beads.  We left on a long trip out west (from Tennessee).  I have a CO2 tank that I use to air my tires and was using it at a campsite during the trip.  I noticed that air was escaping from the valve stem and I couldnt stop it.  I quickly put the alligator valve stem cover back on and it seemed to quit.  I called Coach Net and told them I thought the valve stem was faulty.  Coach Net came out, he agreed and replaced the valve stem and aired all my tires.  I stopped to get fuel and noticed that the front, passenger tire was nearly flat, fortunately the truck stop was able to help me.  Then, I had the same situation when airing tires in another campground.  I was in a mess.  

I called my tire guy and he told me that the wrong size beads had been used and were getting wedged in the valve stem.   I told him that I wanted those beads GONE and he agreed to reimburse me the cost of dismantling each tire and removing the beads.  I was in Arizona and he was in Tennessee.  

Now, I never had the rear tires balanced, but THINK I did the front, not sure why; it was a long time ago.  With the tires not being balanced, I never experience any vibration or abnormal wear.

I finally sold the DipLE and now have a 31' Phoenix Cruiser.  It is so much easier in every aspect of motorhome ownership.  We do miss the room, but totally enjoy the PC.  Keep in mind that at 72, I no longer want the "hassles" of a diesel pusher.  Your mileage may vary.  I still learn from and enjoy this forum.  Finally, I am not a charter member here, but close.  I had many "disputes" with Bill D, he never realized he was no longer a colonel in the Air Force. 😇😊

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 hours ago, bftownes said:

I had many "disputes" with Bill D, he never realized he was no longer a colonel in the Air Force

I don't know what a Phoenix Cruiser is,  A picture maybe. 

Anyway,  Bill D did stand his ground and yeah he was no longer a Colonel, however here he was a General.  😁                                              I miss those old times and I miss Bill, but sooner or later we all gotta go.   RIP Bill. 

[Martinvz]

This has been a very informative discussion and thanks to all the contributions. I do have a related question. If you have Tyron bands or Retro bands installed on the steers would it be best to avoid the balance beads? In this case I think the Centramatics or balancing weights would be the better solutions?

Dies anybody have any experience related to these devices and the use of balancing beads?

[David Pratt]

On my 05 Exec I had Michelin 315R80x22.5  and the TYRON BANDS and also the 12oz Dynabeads in the steer tires and Dynabeads in all the rear tires. I never had any issues with the Dynabeads and TYRON BANDS in the 13 years we owned the coach. The new owner of the Exec still has that combination and has never had any issues either.

My Foretravel ih-45, had Dynabeads and TYRON BANDS also in the steers. All the other tire just the Dynabeads. In February, I replaced the steer tires and decided to try the Balance Masters instead of the Dynabeads. I had no Balance issues with the Dynabeads and still have no balance issues with the Balance Masters. I still have the Dynabeads in all the rear tires and the coach rides just as smooth and vibration free as before.

I cannot speak for the Centramatics, but they work on the same principal as the Balance Masters and other members have posted that the Centramatics perform the same.

Just my opinion, but I would definitely stay away from the external balance weights if possible.

 

[Ivan K]

Just like Dave above, I have balance masters on the front with inserts in those steer tires. I never ran the inserts with beads so can't comment on that part. When we bought the rig, it had beads in tires and they came out as mostly dust and that turned me off. I did not know any better (about Dynabeads) so i did not consider beads anymore. Balance masters were paid for by sale of my used steers so no harm. They are a bit more expensive, black powder coated and don't use the somewhat noisy steel balls (not that anyone could hear that inside). In comparison, centramatics do exact same thing and I have those on both rear axles, same deal.

[Melvin]

I've used the beads over the year i could never tell that they worked that good. DON'T use beads. If the tire dealer has not invested in a "Road Force Balancer" keep looking until you find this machine in a tire shop.  This tec came out a few years ago for car and truck tires and now they have a machine for RV and Big Truck tires.

I balance steers, drives and tag axle tires we just pulled in from a 700 mile trip and it was like riding on a magic carpet. " Road Force Balancing 

[Gweedo]

I had the Centramatics installed front and rear with new Toyo M171,  time will tell.  Thanks everyone for the info..

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

Pat, good choice.

Gary 05 AMB DST

[Mike H]

On 4/21/2023 at 5:15 PM, David Pratt said:

On my 05 Exec I had Michelin 315R80x22.5  and the TYRON BANDS and also the 12oz Dynabeads in the steer tires and Dynabeads in all the rear tires. I never had any issues with the Dynabeads and TYRON BANDS in the 13 years we owned the coach. The new owner of the Exec still has that combination and has never had any issues either.

My Foretravel ih-45, had Dynabeads and TYRON BANDS also in the steers. All the other tire just the Dynabeads. In February, I replaced the steer tires and decided to try the Balance Masters instead of the Dynabeads. I had no Balance issues with the Dynabeads and still have no balance issues with the Balance Masters. I still have the Dynabeads in all the rear tires and the coach rides just as smooth and vibration free as before.

I cannot speak for the Centramatics, but they work on the same principal as the Balance Masters and other members have posted that the Centramatics perform the same.

Just my opinion, but I would definitely stay away from the external balance weights if possible.

 

And in the past 4-1/2 yrs, 40,000 miles have been logged on that coach with it driving like my pickup truck. 

You can also just contact https://www.innovativebalancing.com/  and they’ll tell you what you need for your tires and you can buy them directly from them.  They were very helpful when I talked with them.  I saved some of the old beads and packaged them in ziplock bags after I weighed out 12 oz.  I wanted to carry some with me just in case I had to have a flat repaired somewhere.  You can buy them packaged for your particular tire configuration. From my quick review of the Balance Masters they do cost a little more but really not that much, especially since you can reuse them when new tires are needed.  This will be the ONLY way I will go when I have new tires installed and I suspect I will be adding the Balance Masters as well.  I thought there might be a problem with them with the TYRON bands on the steer tires but I have not had any issues at all with them.  I sold the old 295 tires to a logging trucker for $120 each but the 315's were an 'odd' size for them to use.  The Balance Masters appear to be in the $200 - $240 range and due to the many different type rims, bolt patterns, bolt hole sizes etc. I would recommend contacting them directly (https://www.balancemasters.com/motorhomes) to assure you are getting the correct ones for your particular coach.

[Frank Bergamo]

Just bought these, https://www.zoro.com/dyna-beads-tire-balancing-beads-12-oz-pk2-pr-fleet/i/G7016222/  Beat deal out there.

[cbr046]

4 minutes ago, Frank Bergamo said:

Just bought these, https://www.zoro.com/dyna-beads-tire-balancing-beads-12-oz-pk2-pr-fleet/i/G7016222/  Beat deal out there.

I'm curious what the actual bead diameter is? 

- bob

 

[tmw188]

Won’t the beads get trapped underneath the Tyron Bands in the wheel cavity? Seems to me it could. 

[Mike H]

1 hour ago, tmw188 said:

Won’t the beads get trapped underneath the Tyron Bands in the wheel cavity? Seems to me it could. 

Dyna Beads were in the steer tires with the Tyron Bands when I replaced the tires.  I didn't see any evidence of any beads caught up in the bands.  The beads are actually slung away from the bands when traveling  and just drop to the bottom of the tire when stopped.  I talked with Chuck Thatcher about that and also with the folks out at Innovative Balancing and neither had heard of anyone having issues using the beads with the bands.

BTW;  The beads come in a very thin, paper/tissue like bag (sort of like what Happy Camper comes in) that you just drop into the tire before it's aired up and comes apart once the tire starts rotating to let the beads disperse.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Mike H

[Dr4Film]

There is an opening in the Tyron Bands where the two ends are connected together that would allow for any beads that happen to get under the bands to fall out once the tire starts to rotate after being at rest. The beads are not distributed completely until the speed of the vehicle gets to about 25-35 mph.

Taken from the Innovative Balancing Website. -  "The balancing principle is based on centrifugal force, and enough force is developed to keep the beads in position at approximately 25 - 35 MPH, but the exact speed is dependent upon tire diameter."

[tmw188]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

There is an opening in the Tyron Bands where the two ends are connected together that would allow for any beads that happen to get under the bands to fall out once the tire starts to rotate after being at rest. The beads are not distributed completely until the speed of the vehicle gets to about 25-35 mph.

Taken from the Innovative Balancing Website. -  "The balancing principle is based on centrifugal force, and enough force is developed to keep the beads in position at approximately 25 - 35 MPH, but the exact speed is dependent upon tire diameter."

Yep I get that. Those openings are what I was concerned about.

Edited April 30, 2023 by tmw188
Added content

[Mike H]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

There is an opening in the Tyron Bands where the two ends are connected together that would allow for any beads that happen to get under the bands to fall out once the tire starts to rotate after being at rest. The beads are not distributed completely until the speed of the vehicle gets to about 25-35 mph.

Taken from the Innovative Balancing Website. -  "The balancing principle is based on centrifugal force, and enough force is developed to keep the beads in position at approximately 25 - 35 MPH, but the exact speed is dependent upon tire diameter."

There are spacers on the back/inside of the bands that hold them off of the rim.

[Dr4Film]

Mike, I forgot about those spacers! There is no way that the beads could get trapped behind the bands.

Once my bands were installed by Josam's last year I have never given them a second thought while driving other than to know they are working in the background just in case of a sudden front tire blowout.