Some serious battery issues, not sure where to start

[Pudgy Camper]

Hi, brand new (to me) Windsor owner here! 

During my inspection of the coach (before purchasing), I noticed the chassis battery disconnect had been removed and both cables had been bolted together and taped up. The seller convinced me that the OEM disconnect had gone bad from heat and loose contact and been removed/bypassed. I kinda overlooked it and figured it would be a simple repair by just adding a new disconnect. 

Fast forward 3 days.....got the coach home, but hasn't been plugged in since we got home and I go to start it and both sets of batteries are completely dead.

After some closer inspection I noticed that the battery isolator relay is connected incorrectly with both battery leads (house and chassis) connected to the same relay stud. Further inspection reveal melted chassis cables near were the disconnect is supposed to be. 

Any suggestions on where to start with this repair? Anything else I should check? I already knew it needed house batteries so I'm planning on those along with 2 new disconnects and most likely a new isolator relay, maybe go with a Big Boy. I'm hoping that will get me back up and running. Thanks for any input!

[vito.a]

It looks like you have some work cut out there.  But, not too bad.  

Instead of an Intellitec Big Boy isolation solenoid I'd use a Blue Sea ML-ACR available on Amazon.  https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Automatic-Charging/dp/B001VIXLRO/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2DL3RI6KWQ5Q6&keywords=blue%2Bsea%2Bml-acr&qid=1682971622&sprefix=blue%2Bsea%2Bml-acr%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-2&th=1

You may have to run an additional wire for the combining function but it's a much better solution.   There are several discussions on this subject.  

Good luck!

Edited May 1, 2023 by vito.a

[Pudgy Camper]

11 minutes ago, vito.a said:

It looks like you have some work cut out there.  But, not too bad.  

Instead of an Intellitec Big Boy isolation solenoid I'd use a Blue Sea ML-ACR available on Amazon.  https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Automatic-Charging/dp/B001VIXLRO/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2DL3RI6KWQ5Q6&keywords=blue%2Bsea%2Bml-acr&qid=1682971622&sprefix=blue%2Bsea%2Bml-acr%2Caps%2C165&sr=8-2&th=1

You may have to run an additional wire for the combining function but it's a much better solution.   There are several discussions on this subject.  

Good luck!

Thanks for the input vito! I have seen a few write ups on the Blue Sea and it looks very cool. But from what I understand I would have to manually open the Blue Sea isolator via the combining switch when/if I ever have 2 incoming charge sources (generator, alternator or shore power) at the same time. Is that how it works?

I'm afraid I would forget and overcharge or damage something. I think the Big Boy opens automatically when 2 sources are detected, but I'm not positive.

[MyronTruex]

Looks straight forward. Replace the large switches.

While you are working in there measure the voltages on the small terminals of the large solenoid while plugged into shoreline. What I would want to know is if the device that controls it works.

One of the small terminals would be ground and the other is the control. It is common for the control wire to be purple but I cannot see in the picture. 

IF you find voltage on one of the small terminals after a couple of minutes on shoreline, remove shoreline and make sure the voltage goes away. This will tell you if you can go back to the stock setup or should adventure into a newer setup. Well after a couple of other tests. 

With the shoreline off, the voltage on the small terminal should go away. Now while having the emergency/aux start button pressed (maybe with ignition switch on), see if you get the control voltage on that small terminal again. This is the function to jump start when your engine batteries are weak. 

With that sorted and notes taken, start the engine and go back and measure the small terminals again after a couple of minutes. IF you see voltage on the small terminal that is a good indication. 

With information from this you can decide if you want to change that large solenoid. They are reasonably priced but get one with the silver contacts if possible. 

The previous tests will help identify if you have a BIRD, IRD, or some other setup. 

A picture of your compartment below the driver will give lots of instant information if you can. 

[Bill R]

@Pudgy Camper I can not tell if your disconnect switch is a BEP, but if it is, they have been know to just fall apart.  Mine did.  May explain what happened with the Chassis disconnect.  I would definitely replace with a more robust brand.  I replaced with Blue Seas.

[Tom Cherry]

Everyone is helping.  SO...here is my thoughts.  

I KNOW....don't THINK that the file below is the SAME 2004 in the file.  BUT, look at the 2003.  The 2002, 2003 and 2004 Windsors were basically the same....but they were a bit different as time went on.  You did NOT say if you have the original manual with the prints.  THAT IS THE KEY...OK....this is back and forth between a few screens.

DEFINITELY DOWNLOAD THE 2003 drawings if you have NONE.  It looks like yours.

Next UP.  Order a Blue Seas 300 Amp switch and replace the taped up mess.  You need the Blue Seas 6006 (that is the Red version).  It is just the PLAIN ON/OFF.  There is one similar and it has TWO switches...it has two large studs and two small control wiring terminals.  THIS AINT THE ONE....get it.  You MIGHT be a big spender and replace the Domestic as these go bad....especially at your age of yours.  I have one that has a high resistance connection and it drops a half volt...REPLACE BOTH......

Next up....Look at the FIRST Drawing in the 2003.  On the LEFT side...zoom in.  There is a Isolator Delay....whatever.  It's PN is 00-0036-00 on the Print.  This is actually a BIRD (BiDirectional) charging control.  I would NOT modify or do anything until I tested the system. The Windsors had one of the FIRST full BIRD systems...

You can google the PN and an Intellitec document will come up.  It was designed to work with the Boost Solenoid in the center of your picture. Google that also.

Bottom line....this allowed the Chassis Batteries to be charged when parked and on Shore....and vice versa....the House to be charged whilst driving.

NOW....Monaco did some funky stuff....like adding in the Battery Maintainer.  The BIRD Module you have is older technology.  You CAN replace it with the NEW Intellitec Diesel 2 Module....and that works with the Big Boy (200 Amp) NON LATCHING.  That is what is in my Camelot and it works fine.  There is NO rewiring required to use the boost....like, I believe there is with the Blue Seas unit. I like mine....but others prefer the Blue Seas.

Do a cost analysis....

https://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/intellitec-bi-directional-isolator-relay-delay-diesel-ii-00-00839-000/    $78

Intellitec BIG BOY ISOLATOR RELAY 77-90006-120

UNFORTUNATELY....these have gone up.  I paid $200 in mid 2021.  Now in the $300 Range.

You will NOT need the big isolator.  You will not have to rewire the boost....only find the two leads and there is a circuit with it or I can send you my Camelot.

Bottom LINE.....  GO BIRD or Blue Seas....but you will have to run several wires from the rear to your front Boost switch.

That's about as much as I can offer.

Start putting it back together and testing and follow the 2003 prints....just understand (read the Intellitec PDF on both...simple and easy to understand).

Good Luck....

2004 Monaco wiring schematics (2).pdf

[vito.a]

This thread should answer your Blue Sea questions: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/replace-big-boy-with-blue-sea-ml-acr-468617.html

This Blue Sea install is in a Windsor:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/windsor-owners-blue-sea-ml-acr-install-i-need-spare-wires-front-and-back-540763.html

[MyronTruex]

https://www.amazon.com/TROMBETTA-TERMINAL-CONTINUOUS-114-1211-020-114-1211-010/dp/B013U62E6I/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=new+trombetta+12+volt&qid=1584710030&sr=8-1

https://www.amazon.com/Cole-Hersee-48530-Battery-Isolator/dp/B00LMGPHW2 This might be an option but would need to disable the existing bird. That would be very easy and the existing aux start button could still be used. I have not bench tested one of these but am considering it. The factory installed solenoids in many models run so hot they will burn your fingers. This one likely runs hot as well but with built in technology it may address that issue.

 

[Dr4Film]

You can see on the back wall where the BEP Disconnect Switch was located that it had burned up, black marks on the fiberglass.

Remove the other one and replace with either a Blue Seas, Perko or Guest Disconnect Switch.

Get rid of the current failed Battery Isolator Relay which has been by-passed and replace it with the Blue Seas ML-ACR.

After that, you will be able to evaluate your battery bank situation. for the house and chassis.

[Pudgy Camper]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:00 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Everyone is helping.  SO...here is my thoughts.  

I KNOW....don't THINK that the file below is the SAME 2004 in the file.  BUT, look at the 2003.  The 2002, 2003 and 2004 Windsors were basically the same....but they were a bit different as time went on.  You did NOT say if you have the original manual with the prints.  THAT IS THE KEY...OK....this is back and forth between a few screens.

DEFINITELY DOWNLOAD THE 2003 drawings if you have NONE.  It looks like yours.

Next UP.  Order a Blue Seas 300 Amp switch and replace the taped up mess.  You need the Blue Seas 6006 (that is the Red version).  It is just the PLAIN ON/OFF.  There is one similar and it has TWO switches...it has two large studs and two small control wiring terminals.  THIS AINT THE ONE....get it.  You MIGHT be a big spender and replace the Domestic as these go bad....especially at your age of yours.  I have one that has a high resistance connection and it drops a half volt...REPLACE BOTH......

Next up....Look at the FIRST Drawing in the 2003.  On the LEFT side...zoom in.  There is a Isolator Delay....whatever.  It's PN is 00-0036-00 on the Print.  This is actually a BIRD (BiDirectional) charging control.  I would NOT modify or do anything until I tested the system. The Windsors had one of the FIRST full BIRD systems...

You can google the PN and an Intellitec document will come up.  It was designed to work with the Boost Solenoid in the center of your picture. Google that also.

Bottom line....this allowed the Chassis Batteries to be charged when parked and on Shore....and vice versa....the House to be charged whilst driving.

NOW....Monaco did some funky stuff....like adding in the Battery Maintainer.  The BIRD Module you have is older technology.  You CAN replace it with the NEW Intellitec Diesel 2 Module....and that works with the Big Boy (200 Amp) NON LATCHING.  That is what is in my Camelot and it works fine.  There is NO rewiring required to use the boost....like, I believe there is with the Blue Seas unit. I like mine....but others prefer the Blue Seas.

Do a cost analysis....

https://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/intellitec-bi-directional-isolator-relay-delay-diesel-ii-00-00839-000/    $78

Intellitec BIG BOY ISOLATOR RELAY 77-90006-120

UNFORTUNATELY....these have gone up.  I paid $200 in mid 2021.  Now in the $300 Range.

You will NOT need the big isolator.  You will not have to rewire the boost....only find the two leads and there is a circuit with it or I can send you my Camelot.

Bottom LINE.....  GO BIRD or Blue Seas....but you will have to run several wires from the rear to your front Boost switch.

That's about as much as I can offer.

Start putting it back together and testing and follow the 2003 prints....just understand (read the Intellitec PDF on both...simple and easy to understand).

Good Luck....

2004 Monaco wiring schematics (2).pdf 6.84 MB · 0 downloads

Thank you Tom for all your input! I will definitely be ordering up 2 Blue Seas disconnects. My OEM Domestic switch is sloppy and I get a 2 volt drop when wiggling it! So I would feel better starting fresh with 2 new disconnects. I do have a 2004 wiring diagram that came with the coach from the previous owner.

I don't think my coach has the BIRD system, that area in the rear passenger bay is empty. But it looks like someone replaced the Isolator Delay Relay in the electrical bay under the drivers window. If I understand right, that one is one directional and not bi-directional like the BIRD unit. I saw a good You Tube video from AZ Expert and he shows how to add a BIRD in the front drivers side elec bay. Looks like I could add it to the rear passenger bay easier and it would end up matching the 2003 wiring diagram. I will add a couple better pictures of passenger rear and drivers front electrical bays. Thanks again for your help!

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Pudgy Camper

[Pudgy Camper]

On 5/1/2023 at 3:01 PM, myrontruex said:

Looks straight forward. Replace the large switches.

While you are working in there measure the voltages on the small terminals of the large solenoid while plugged into shoreline. What I would want to know is if the device that controls it works.

One of the small terminals would be ground and the other is the control. It is common for the control wire to be purple but I cannot see in the picture. 

IF you find voltage on one of the small terminals after a couple of minutes on shoreline, remove shoreline and make sure the voltage goes away. This will tell you if you can go back to the stock setup or should adventure into a newer setup. Well after a couple of other tests. 

With the shoreline off, the voltage on the small terminal should go away. Now while having the emergency/aux start button pressed (maybe with ignition switch on), see if you get the control voltage on that small terminal again. This is the function to jump start when your engine batteries are weak. 

With that sorted and notes taken, start the engine and go back and measure the small terminals again after a couple of minutes. IF you see voltage on the small terminal that is a good indication. 

With information from this you can decide if you want to change that large solenoid. They are reasonably priced but get one with the silver contacts if possible. 

The previous tests will help identify if you have a BIRD, IRD, or some other setup. 

A picture of your compartment below the driver will give lots of instant information if you can. 

Thanks Myron for the input! I will perform the tests you mentioned when I get back up and running. Meanwhile here's a picture of my driver's compartment. Looks like someone replaced the OEM Isolator Delay Relay and mounted it to the side wall. Not sure why they didn't go back in original location. Also here's a better picture of my passenger side compartment.

[Tom Cherry]

57 minutes ago, Pudgy Camper said:

Thank you Tom for all your input! I will definitely be ordering up 2 Blue Seas disconnects. My OEM Domestic switch is sloppy and I get a 2 volt drop when wiggling it! So I would feel better starting fresh with 2 new disconnects. I do have a 2004 wiring diagram that came with the coach from the previous owner.

I don't think my coach has the BIRD system, that area in the rear passenger bay is empty. But it looks like someone replaced the Isolator Delay Relay in the electrical bay under the drivers window. If I understand right, that one is one directional and not bi-directional like the BIRD unit. I saw a good You Tube video from AZ Expert and he shows how to add a BIRD in the front drivers side elec bay. Looks like I could add it to the rear passenger bay easier and it would end up matching the 2003 wiring diagram. I will add a couple better pictures of passenger rear and drivers front electrical bays. Thanks again for your help!

 

As many say…..don’t depend on Monaco for building it like the print.  However, I have an old drawing somewhere, that a Windsor owner gave me.  It had the older Bird module in it.  I was comparing to my 2009 Camelot.  It was virtually identical.  The circuit, on the print, that was used was simple.  The control module sent out a 12 VDC signal to the boost solenoid.  In the first versions, that was a constant 12 VDC and it went to a boost solenoid that was rated for 12 VDC continuous duty.  So….when dual or BIRD Charging was required the solenoid closed….nothing more than a mechanical jumper cable.  

THEN….Intellitec released their own 200 A solenoid.  Technically, they had several.  But the NEWER BIRD Diesel 2 works like this.  When conditions are right….as in neither source being totally depleted, the. The BIRD Diesel 2 sends out a quick 12 VDC signal.  That closes the solenoid.  But it is NOT continuous 12 VDC rated.  The  BIRD Diesel 2 “pulses” the voltage.  Put a VOM on it and you think you are reading a voltage reduction.  It will be in the 3 - 5 VDC range.  What that does is keep the solenoid ENGAGED.  It will hum a little and get a little warm….but you can keep your hand on it,  SO, the 200A solenoid is closed.  I THINK the reason for the higher amp solenoid was fear that a heavy duty alternator hold pump out that current.  MOST of the inverters, Magnums….are the most used by Monaco, rarely put out over 100A charging.

Bottom line….Monaco eventually put the 200A Big boy in all MH.  On the Dynasty and up, there is a special “pulsing” board.  It pulses or has longer pulses….so the Big Boy is driven at say 8 (read on a meter) VDC.  It hums or chatters a bit louder and gets warmer.  I can barely feel mine and it is cool…or I can keep my hand on it.  The Dynasty is decidedly louder and hotter and you would NOT Abe happy holding it for long.

NOW…the word BUILD is over kill.  The Diesel 2 has 4 control connections.  Ground; Chassis; House & Solenoid….or the output to the Big Boy.  There is a Generator terminal that Monaco abandoned as it served no purpose.  They used a Bosch relay to switch ON the unit….what that meant was that the reduced voltage pulsed signal came through the NC contacts….BUT…it you pushed the BOOST SWITCH….then the Big Boy got a full 12 VDC….of course the Boost was spring loaded.

SO all the wiring is done in the RRB and you use the lead from the boost.  Probably take 30 minutes max to wire up….just located a hot lead from House and Chassis….and then install the relay…  if you like, PM me and I’ll snd you the Monaco print.  

NOW…I like the Blue Seas MLCR or whatever….but it requires more HD cabling and you also need 4 or so wires from the upfront boost switch.  That is why I replaced my Big Boy.  All I need to do is spend half an hour cleaning the contacts….and I have a spare….

NEITHER a of them need the God awful big isolator.  Sold state electronics is simpler.  So,,,.learning how both the Diesel 2 and the Blue Seas system work and how to install would be my advice….instead of trying to recreate a circuit that is far outdated and will not give you FULL (Unless you follow prompts and buy the first BIRD module).  You will spend less time and money putting in a reliable system and love it on the long run….

 

 

[Pudgy Camper]

47 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

As many say…..don’t depend on Monaco for building it like the print.  However, I have an old drawing somewhere, that a Windsor owner gave me.  It had the older Bird module in it.  I was comparing to my 2009 Camelot.  It was virtually identical.  The circuit, on the print, that was used was simple.  The control module sent out a 12 VDC signal to the boost solenoid.  In the first versions, that was a constant 12 VDC and it went to a boost solenoid that was rated for 12 VDC continuous duty.  So….when dual or BIRD Charging was required the solenoid closed….nothing more than a mechanical jumper cable.  

THEN….Intellitec released their own 200 A solenoid.  Technically, they had several.  But the NEWER BIRD Diesel 2 works like this.  When conditions are right….as in neither source being totally depleted, the. The BIRD Diesel 2 sends out a quick 12 VDC signal.  That closes the solenoid.  But it is NOT continuous 12 VDC rated.  The  BIRD Diesel 2 “pulses” the voltage.  Put a VOM on it and you think you are reading a voltage reduction.  It will be in the 3 - 5 VDC range.  What that does is keep the solenoid ENGAGED.  It will hum a little and get a little warm….but you can keep your hand on it,  SO, the 200A solenoid is closed.  I THINK the reason for the higher amp solenoid was fear that a heavy duty alternator hold pump out that current.  MOST of the inverters, Magnums….are the most used by Monaco, rarely put out over 100A charging.

Bottom line….Monaco eventually put the 200A Big boy in all MH.  On the Dynasty and up, there is a special “pulsing” board.  It pulses or has longer pulses….so the Big Boy is driven at say 8 (read on a meter) VDC.  It hums or chatters a bit louder and gets warmer.  I can barely feel mine and it is cool…or I can keep my hand on it.  The Dynasty is decidedly louder and hotter and you would NOT Abe happy holding it for long.

NOW…the word BUILD is over kill.  The Diesel 2 has 4 control connections.  Ground; Chassis; House & Solenoid….or the output to the Big Boy.  There is a Generator terminal that Monaco abandoned as it served no purpose.  They used a Bosch relay to switch ON the unit….what that meant was that the reduced voltage pulsed signal came through the NC contacts….BUT…it you pushed the BOOST SWITCH….then the Big Boy got a full 12 VDC….of course the Boost was spring loaded.

SO all the wiring is done in the RRB and you use the lead from the boost.  Probably take 30 minutes max to wire up….just located a hot lead from House and Chassis….and then install the relay…  if you like, PM me and I’ll snd you the Monaco print.  

NOW…I like the Blue Seas MLCR or whatever….but it requires more HD cabling and you also need 4 or so wires from the upfront boost switch.  That is why I replaced my Big Boy.  All I need to do is spend half an hour cleaning the contacts….and I have a spare….

NEITHER a of them need the God awful big isolator.  Sold state electronics is simpler.  So,,,.learning how both the Diesel 2 and the Blue Seas system work and how to install would be my advice….instead of trying to recreate a circuit that is far outdated and will not give you FULL (Unless you follow prompts and buy the first BIRD module).  You will spend less time and money putting in a reliable system and love it on the long run….

 

 

Thank you Tom, so if I understand correctly, adding the BIRD Diesel 2 to the rear passenger bay (in the same location as the 2003 drawing) and going with a Big Boy non latching 200amp Isolator Relay would be the preferred way to go?

I like the Blue Sea, haven't researched it a lot, but would like to keep things as simple as possible and not have to mess with for a long time.

[MyronTruex]

Great pictures. You have an IRD versus a BIRD. That is it is not bi-directional charging. 

It's a great time to install one. There is a video on the process on youtube. 

In later years a BIRD board was installed where the small IRD board is living (cut loose). 

Getting the previously mentioned voltage reading will give you a better understanding of how things are working and how they are supposed to work once diagnosed and repaired. 

[Pudgy Camper]

39 minutes ago, myrontruex said:

Great pictures. You have an IRD versus a BIRD. That is it is not bi-directional charging. 

It's a great time to install one. There is a video on the process on youtube. 

In later years a BIRD board was installed where the small IRD board is living (cut loose). 

Getting the previously mentioned voltage reading will give you a better understanding of how things are working and how they are supposed to work once diagnosed and repaired. 

Thanks myron, yeah I've seen a pretty good You Tube video from AZ Expert that shown the BIRD install. I think I'll go that route and unplug the IRD.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Pudgy Camper said:

Thank you Tom, so if I understand correctly, adding the BIRD Diesel 2 to the rear passenger bay (in the same location as the 2003 drawing) and going with a Big Boy non latching 200amp Isolator Relay would be the preferred way to go?

I like the Blue Sea, haven't researched it a lot, but would like to keep things as simple as possible and not have to mess with for a long time.

Yes.  If you want a print on how the did it on 2009, PM me and I’ll print out a PDF.  I CANNOT complain about mine.

[jacwjames]

From experience with my 2002 Windsor, which is similar to yours, the Bluesea MLACR is the way to go, eliminates most of the problems with the house & chassis charging systems. 

VanWill had done this mode and I discussed it with him and it pretty much convinced me it was the way to go.

I was having problems with my Lambert 415 maintainer (the green thing in your picture), so instead of fooling around I decided to go with the Bluesea.  The one I have has the remote switch which give you the ability to turn it on & off as needed and/or leave it auto mode. 

I was able to remove the BIRD, Lambert 415 maintainer, and the isolation solenoid which served as the auxiliary  boost function to assist the chassis batteries if low.  Very easy install, remove the solenoid and put blue sea there, put house battery lead on one side and chassis on the other.  Had to run one extra wire (which you already have since your isolator relay delay is in your front drivers side run bay). I then removed the BIRD and Lambert and put on a shelf in my garage. 

IMHO, that's the way to go, easier, cheaper, and more reliable. 

Pictures below, Bluesea and switch on dash which is red. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by jacwjames

[Dr4Film]

17 hours ago, Pudgy Camper said:

Thank you Tom, so if I understand correctly, adding the BIRD Diesel 2 to the rear passenger bay (in the same location as the 2003 drawing) and going with a Big Boy non latching 200amp Isolator Relay would be the preferred way to go?

I like the Blue Sea, haven't researched it a lot, but would like to keep things as simple as possible and not have to mess with for a long time.

I am removing a perfectly good working Big Boy Isolator relay and replacing with a Blue Seas ML-ACR which is smarter, handles more amps and is never hot, remains cool. to touch. That ONE device replaces many components. To me that's a no-brainer.

I think you are making the project harder and more complicated than it has to be.

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I am removing a perfectly good working Big Boy Isolator relay and replacing with a Blue Seas ML-ACR which is smarter, handles more amps and is never hot, remains cool. to touch. That ONE device replaces many components. To me that's a no-brainer.

I think you are making the project harder and more complicated than it has to be.

While I understand Richard’s comment……these two scenarios are totally different.

The MCL has a lot of advantages.  But to get full utilization, as well as to be able to control the battery boost from the driver’s cockpit, you have to run a harness from the front to the rear.  That, in my logic, makes keeping my Diesel 2, perhaps a “no brainer”…. I have run cable and wire underneath the MH’s and cars and trucks and such for many years…..and snaked it in and over the ceilings of the bays.  Just not my idea of fun and hobby enjoyment.  Some folks dismount and change out their own tires and remount the new ones… we each do things we don’t trust others to do,, don’t want to pay for these…..or do for personal satisfaction and enjoyment..

The full features and control the MCL from the front boost switch will require a harness and rewiring.  You can purchase an MCL with a manual boost switch, so you go to the rear run bay and flip the switch on….and you have the boost.  The single existing wire from the boost switch does not work with the MCL.  It will with a Diesel 2 BIRD Module. Conversely….using a Jumper cable between the two banks works and carry’s more current.

The 300 A rating is definitely a larger safety factor, but in reality, it will never be used.  The Magnums and other chargers typically put out, at a max 115 Amp…but only for a short time during bulk….and then quickly drop 90 or so.  The Chassis system (while running) uses maybe 50 - 75 amps….the higher when you use a device such as a motor operated step well cover or such.  Therefore the Lessee Neville 200 Amp alternator never supplies a full 200 amps for charging….much like the inverters.  If you have the 160 Amp….it drops even more.  

There fore for the Monaco’s use of the Intellitec Big Boy 200 A as an isolator relay is sufficient,  it would be interesting to know what the rating of the existing isolator for the OP is….and it probably does need replacing…

The decision, as recommended,  was to understand the two options….the costs….the installation…and the needs…

However, to set the scene properly, Richard’s Dynasty, as stated earlier, has a custom “Intellitec Manufactured control board” in the rear run.  It is not their simple Diesel 2 BIRD module.  This board, especially in the 2009 MY had a high failure rate due to a manufacturing error.  However, that controller does fail from time to time in all model years….as age and use and such sets in.  There are members here with the expertise to repair the boards.   But, if an individual or tech troubleshoots and finds the controller board is defective, then it is sent to M&M RV Electronics….as I believe a new board is not available and prices on used boards have skyrocketed.  The cost for repair, per offline conversions is $450.

Yes, that board does put out a pulsed signal that increases the duty cycle.  It runs hotter, but within Intellitec’s design parameters of the Big Boy 200A Isolator.  It “hums” a bit louder.  From a practical trouble shooting approach, the first question we here ask .”Is it humming and warm to the touch”.

The contacts on the Big Boy can be easily serviced and there are detailed instructions in our files.  In reality, purchasing a simple “Diesel 2” BIRD module and taking the Intellitec board out of service and 4 wires would reduce the heat and the noise on a Dynasty….but that is an individual’s call.

Many members, I am told, with the Dynasty’s above issues have “disconnected” the board and installed a solid copper bypass on the Big Boy and don’t use the BIRD system.  So, in effect, there is no battery isolator….and they monitor their charging system….both the Magnum and Chassis.  

Just read, evaluate and then make a decision based on what the needs are…..

 

[jacwjames]

Tom,

I agree running a wire front to back trying to snake it through the bays is a real pain.  Back in 2010 when I was outfitting my coach to pull my Jeep I need to run one stinking wire as a brake indicator light, so that when I pushed the brake pedal in the coach the air would push the brake pedal cylinder in the Jeep and the light would indicate it on the dash.  Not a necessity but I thought it would be good to have.  I searched and never did find spare wires so I ended up snaking a wire along the drivers side through the bays hunting for any opening to push a wire through. 

Then in 2021 I decided to install a FASS system with a fuel pressure gauge and needed to run the wiring harness back to front.  So bit the bullet and ran 20 ft of 3/4" conduit across the top of my basement bays between the chassis rail.  I simply pushed the conduit from the front opening where the generator is.  There were some cutouts in the cross members where there were wiring already run so I just pushed it through there and worked my way back.  I got as far as the first large compartment and hit something so I dropped the ceiling added another pieced of conduit and helped it across through to the furthest bay I had ceiling access to.  I then pushed it back over the water tanks and it day lighted just before the rear axle.  This actually didn't take that long and PLUS it was large enough so that when I needed to run a wire for the Bluesea it was a piece of cake, I actually ran a group of 5 wires, so I still have 4 left. 

I'm not an expert by any means but for me the Bluesea was a viable option.  I have yet to hear of a failure of one of these, I'm sure there has been but from what I understand it has a life time warranty, hopefully I'll never need it.

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Tom,

I agree running a wire front to back trying to snake it through the bays is a real pain.  Back in 2010 when I was outfitting my coach to pull my Jeep I need to run one stinking wire as a brake indicator light, so that when I pushed the brake pedal in the coach the air would push the brake pedal cylinder in the Jeep and the light would indicate it on the dash.  Not a necessity but I thought it would be good to have.  I searched and never did find spare wires so I ended up snaking a wire along the drivers side through the bays hunting for any opening to push a wire through. 

Then in 2021 I decided to install a FASS system with a fuel pressure gauge and needed to run the wiring harness back to front.  So bit the bullet and ran 20 ft of 3/4" conduit across the top of my basement bays between the chassis rail.  I simply pushed the conduit from the front opening where the generator is.  There were some cutouts in the cross members where there were wiring already run so I just pushed it through there and worked my way back.  I got as far as the first large compartment and hit something so I dropped the ceiling added another pieced of conduit and helped it across through to the furthest bay I had ceiling access to.  I then pushed it back over the water tanks and it day lighted just before the rear axle.  This actually didn't take that long and PLUS it was large enough so that when I needed to run a wire for the Bluesea it was a piece of cake, I actually ran a group of 5 wires, so I still have 4 left. 

I'm not an expert by any means but for me the Bluesea was a viable option.  I have yet to hear of a failure of one of these, I'm sure there has been but from what I understand it has a life time warranty, hopefully I'll never need it.

 

I never said the Blue Seas was not a viable option….but restoring and upgrading to the Intellitec BIRD system that has been used with very few issues since 2009 is also an option.  Neither one is a no brainer.  Read. Learn. Cost out.  Evaluate. Determine if you want a simple 4 wire install or run a harness and install the new boost & control switch up front.

There is also the cheap option of abandoning an Isolator Relay….but you will need, IMHO, power to keep your inverter charging both banks in storage….  

Or go back and wire it like the print with the original Intellitec and make sure the boost/isolator solenoid works.

There is no one answer.   Only make an intelligent decision based on need and resources and ability….

folks use a Jumper cable and charge the house while driving….   And that works….I know…I did it when my Big Boy’s contacts needed cleaning that WORKS….

Along those lines, we have absolutely NO history on the Blue Seas contact erosion.  That is NOT A SLAM…. We know we need to clean or do a PM on the Big Boy and have history.  Can you take apart the MCL and refurbish the contacts like the Intellitec.  I have the utmost confidence in Blue Seas.  But, folks are always changing out switches.  My house bank switch is funky.  I tested every thing I could.  I ended up burning up a hydraulic motor.  I tested voltage, under load….it was fine.  I also KNEW that there was a high resistance connection to my hydraulic motor.  It CAME and WENT.  OK…new motor….voltage was a smidge low.  I put in a battery selector switch…so I could run motor off House or Chassis or Both.  Under load, chassis is half volt more or so that House.  Same cable size and length from the ARRB. I also KNEW that my high resistance voltage drop was vibration related as I could drive and it was great….but every once in a while….dropped down.  So…my chassis battery now is primary for slides.

A few months ago, I was doing my load testing and working with the batteries….and for some reason, tested both Blue Seas.  Opps.  House, with almost NO LOAD….Half Volt drop.  That is fine as there is not really any other load and my inverter is fused directly and not in the switch circuit.

I have a spare switch. Going to order another and swap both out and keep Chassis as a spare.  So, eventually, I predict that the MLC, even at 300 A will need to have the contacts cleaned.  You have one….can you do that?  

I hope you now fully understand my point…. 

[Pudgy Camper]

Thanks everyone for all of the input! After a lot of research and considering the different options I think I'm going to go with the Blue Sea ML-ACR in place of the Big Boy Isolator Relay. It would save me roughly $200 and I really haven't heard anything negative from anyone that's using it. The only drawback is running the 2 wires to the front dash. I may hunt around and see if I have any spare wires going from front to back, if not I'll install the conduit system suggested by jacwjames. That is an excellent idea and might come in handy down the road. 

So my plan of attack is...

- disconnect my existing IRD and Lambert battery maintainer

- install 2 Blue Sea battery disconnects (one for house batteries, one for chassis)

- install Blue Sea ML-ACR

- install all new batteries (house and chassis)

Hopefully this will get me back up and running and give me a reliable battery system that will last a while. Then I can focus on the next project....fluid, filters!

[Tom Cherry]

11 minutes ago, Pudgy Camper said:

Thanks everyone for all of the input! After a lot of research and considering the different options I think I'm going to go with the Blue Sea ML-ACR in place of the Big Boy Isolator Relay. It would save me roughly $200 and I really haven't heard anything negative from anyone that's using it. The only drawback is running the 2 wires to the front dash. I may hunt around and see if I have any spare wires going from front to back, if not I'll install the conduit system suggested by jacwjames. That is an excellent idea and might come in handy down the road. 

So my plan of attack is...

- disconnect my existing IRD and Lambert battery maintainer

- install 2 Blue Sea battery disconnects (one for house batteries, one for chassis)

- install Blue Sea ML-ACR

- install all new batteries (house and chassis)

Hopefully this will get me back up and running and give me a reliable battery system that will last a while. Then I can focus on the next project....fluid, filters!

Good decision….I thought you would probably go that way….but  making a snap decision based on so many different inputs and opinions can be confusing.  One needs to noodle it out and make the best one for their situation and skill set and DIY abilities and resources….

Pictures are NOW required as thanks for the advice….LOL.  Seriously, show us your final install….others will learn.

GOOD luck

[Pudgy Camper]

58 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Good decision….I thought you would probably go that way….but  making a snap decision based on so many different inputs and opinions can be confusing.  One needs to noodle it out and make the best one for their situation and skill set and DIY abilities and resources….

Pictures are NOW required as thanks for the advice….LOL.  Seriously, show us your final install….others will learn.

GOOD luck

Will do. Thanks Tom for all your valuable info!

[Just Jim]

I have just finished installing the ML ACR in my coach.  I wanted to just get it installed and will tackle the challenge of running wires to the front etc. for the dash switch at a later date.  Pictures attached.  I am pretty sure I have the house side hooked up correctly.  My question is do I need the short jumper from the chassis side up to terminal/post at the top?  It seemed logical to me that it would need to be there, but just want to make sure.  

Second question, the wires I have left over from deleting the battery maintainer and the boost solenoid.... just tape them up?  I suppose they may be helpful in running the new dash switch???

Last question... the two solenoids on the far right are for the "salesman's" switch battery cut off.  Do I really need a switch up front to turn off the battery?  The switch is right by the door and it seems it gets hit by accident a lot!!!.  Would it hurt anything to just join those wires and call it a day?

I have included a before picture and a couple of after I installed.  Thanks in advance for double checking my work.  I do really appreciate all you guys.

Jim