Trying to decide between 120v residential and 12v dc fridge

[Pudgy Camper]

Hi everyone,

One of my next upgrades to my 04 Windsor is going to be a new refrigerator. Since I purchased my (new to me) coach about a month ago, I have yet to fire up the Nevercold fridge that came with the rig. I want to get it out and upgrade ASAP. After researching the different options, I believe I have it narrowed down to either a 12vdc style or 120vac residential fridge. Size isn't a major deciding factor and I wouldn't mind going with a smaller 9-10 cubic foot to eliminate major modifications and leave room for a side panty in the future.

We aren't full timers and maybe spend 30-45 days a year RVing with half of that dry camping. I'm upgrading my house batteries to 4-6v Trojan T105s, (I think that gives me around 400 amp hrs). My existing inverter is a Xantrex (2000 amp I think) MSW.

So my questions are:

- What is preferred between 120vac residential and 12vdc refrigerators? It looks like the two are about the same cost.

- Would I need to upgrade my inverter to a pure sine wave before going with a 120v residential? That may help with my decision if I can get away with using my existing Xantrex for now. However, I still want to upgrade to PSW down the road.

 

 

[tmw188]

Try asking JC Refrigeration in Shipshewana IN

[Pudgy Camper]

12 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

Try asking JC Refrigeration in Shipshewana IN

From what I understand, JC only offers fixes and replacement parts for the gas absorbing fridges correct? I want to go a different direction completely and eliminate my existing Norcold absorb fridge. After years of RVing and dealing with Norcolds or Dometics in my previous toy haulers, I don't want anything to do with them. So this time, it's either a 12dc or 120vac res fridge.

[tmw188]

No they do 12v conversions too. Even some twin 12v comp I hear with 3 yr warranty?

Edited May 23, 2023 by tmw188

[Pudgy Camper]

11 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

No they do 12v conversions too. Even some twin 12 comp I hear with 3 yr warranty?

Oh gotcha, I'll check them out

Thank you

[bklaes]

My Norcold was rebuilt at National RV Refrigeration in Shipshewana.  National was sold a while back, but the new owners still do great work.

[waterskier_1]

I have a rebuilt (Amana - Sold by JC Refrigeration), but it is 110 VAC and Propane.  I would recommend against a new 12 VDC Refrigerator.  They are more expensive, less size choices, not necessarily as well insulated and don't necessarily consume any less power for the same cooling.  If you intend to use your inverter, or at least intend to leave it on while using the coach, then you will have 110 VAC for the refrigerator.  Unless you are running lots of other electrical appliances, your existing inverter is likely adequate.  If you look for "inverter compressor" refrigerators (they are more efficient but likely a bit more expensive) they won't care if you have Modified Sine Wave (MSW) or Pure Sine Wave (PSW) power since they will be changing it to DC to run the compressor.  The only refrigerator with a warranty to run on MSW is the problematic Samsung.  That is not because they do anything different, it's just that the other manufacturers have not made to investment to have their refrigerators tested on MSW since that is a very small portion of their business.  I believe Monaco supplied Westinghouse in their electric coaches.  

The main reason I think you should consider replacing your existing inverter is if you plan to upgrade to Lithium Batteries and you current inverter doesn't have the ability to set the charger for Lithium (either preprogrammed or via custom settings).  

  -Rick N.

[Reka52]

I was in the same boat as you 11/2 yrs ago. I got the norcold out and put in a fridgeair 1465 this is about 14 cu ft and fit nicely in the norcold hole it left about a 7” space on the side for a nice broom closet was able to put a door on it. My inverter is a zantrax 458 msw and the fridge has run flawlessly with it. My battery monitor shows me that the fridge, lights, satellite tv and furnace use about 160 amp hrs a night about 12 hrs. I have installed 600 ah of lithium and am able to charge the lithium with the xantrax  inverter/ charger I just have to shut the charger off manually 

[Pudgy Camper]

34 minutes ago, Reka52 said:

I was in the same boat as you 11/2 yrs ago. I got the norcold out and put in a fridgeair 1465 this is about 14 cu ft and fit nicely in the norcold hole it left about a 7” space on the side for a nice broom closet was able to put a door on it. My inverter is a zantrax 458 msw and the fridge has run flawlessly with it. My battery monitor shows me that the fridge, lights, satellite tv and furnace use about 160 amp hrs a night about 12 hrs. I have installed 600 ah of lithium and am able to charge the lithium with the xantrax  inverter/ charger I just have to shut the charger off manually 

Thanks Reka, that sounds like the perfect size fridge for my needs. How did you get it into your coach? Did you have to pull a window and use a forklift? I couldn't find a width measurement for it with the doors removed. I have about 25" of opening with my coach door removed or open all the way.

Also, I see different opinions on the MSW vs FSW inverters to run a fridge. That's why I was considering the 12v DC fridge.

[Reka52]

The fridge came in thru the door, you will have to undo the door stop at the top of door so the door goes past vertical and take the doors off of both fridges then they go and come easy. You just need a big strong grandson to do the lifting then you can do the steering. I removed the passenger seat but with a good muscle person on the other it could be done leaving it in, but it is very easy to remove. I considered the 12/ gas option but then we are still dealing with a 20+ year box and door seals are not available and the 1465 was several hundred dollars cheaper than that option. The 1465 is much lighter in weight than the norcold. So far happy with the decision and I have cold beer and hard ice cream on demand 

Also the fridge door is reversible it came with a left hand hinge it is pre drilled and threaded so switching to a right hand opening was no problem. The msw does not  seem to bother the fridge or my other mentioned appliances and all my power tools operate normally so I think that the psw/msw debate is overblown I don’t have computers so I don’t have an opinion on them but I do know my cell phone charges just fine. We are snow birds and spend about 7 mos a year in the motor home and we boondock most of the time

Edited May 24, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Combined to posts

[Dr4Film]

I would not put another red penny into any NotSoCold versus putting it toward a residential fridge.

Got rid of my NotSoCold back in 2012 in my previous 02 Windsor and the new owners are now enjoying the coach and the fridge. That runs on a Xantrex/Trace MSW Inverter.

My current 06 Dynasty came with a Samsung RF-197 already installed and that has been working great also. It is powered by a Magnum PSW Inverter.

I would not own a RV coach unless it came with a residential fridge. I am so DONE with RV absorption fridges and their inherent problems.

[Frank McElroy]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I would not put another red penny into any NotSoCold versus putting it toward a residential fridge.

Got rid of my NotSoCold back in 2012 in my previous 02 Windsor and the new owners are now enjoying the coach and the fridge. That runs on a Xantrex/Trace MSW Inverter.

My current 06 Dynasty came with a Samsung RF-197 already installed and that has been working great also. It is powered by a Magnum PSW Inverter.

I would not own a RV coach unless it came with a residential fridge. I am so DONE with RV absorption fridges and their inherent problems.

After 18 years of RVing with absorption refrigerators, when I ordered my 2008 Dynasty in 2007, a residential refrigerator was near the top of the list.  One of the best decisions I ever made. 

Mine has a side by side JennAir 24" deep residential refrigerator with an option to turn off the auto defrost feature (vacation mode).  No problem overnighting on only battery power.

[birdshill123]

Monaco installed Jenair or Whirlpool. Same manufacturer. Instead of risking damage to the dash or chair we chose to bring it in the emergency window behind the driver. Samsung makes the worst appliances known to man. Same for LG. Dealers carry them as they get great discounts. I almost bought a unit with the Amish double 110 volt conversion. Apparently they work well. However you still have a unit with bad hinges and door seals that are not replaceable.  Owners chose those conversions because it is harder to install a residential fridge. Do not take the easy way. 

 

 

 

[Pudgy Camper]

19 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

 

 

19 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

 

 

Quote

 

 

19 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Monaco installed Jenair or Whirlpool. Same manufacturer. Instead of risking damage to the dash or chair we chose to bring it in the emergency window behind the driver. Samsung makes the worst appliances known to man. Same for LG. Dealers carry them as they get great discounts. I almost bought a unit with the Amish double 110 volt conversion. Apparently they work well. However you still have a unit with bad hinges and door seals that are not replaceable.  Owners chose those conversions because it is harder to install a residential fridge. Do not take the easy way. 

 

 

 

Yeah I definitely want to stay away from any type of conversion kit. Either 120v residential or 12vDC.

Anyone installed a 12vDC fridge? (I'm not talking about 12v/120v/LP gas absorbing).

12vDC fridges are similar to residential but run directly on 12v alone. I haven't seen a lot of feedback on these on this forum but they seem to get good reviews from others.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Pudgy Camper

[jacwjames]

I replaced my Norcold with a Samsung RF18, 

The Norcold was never great, we kept temp monitors in the fridge and freezer.  The fridge would always be marginal on maintaining the temp and we would move ice blocks freezer to the fridge.  Even with that, over the years, we threw away quantities of food that was spoiled.   

While we were building out house I happened to go to Lowes for some supplies and they had a Samsung RF18 on clearance for $865, it was a return but no problems so I bought it to use in the house while I was finishing it and was eventually replaced with a full size refrigerator.  I had it ready for the coach install when it would need it, which was not soon afterwards. 

In my case the install of the Samsung was not easy install since I had to lower the furnace to the floor and drop the shelve to just above the furnace.  That got me just enough clearance to install the Samsung.  I do have 325 watt of solar which helps but not enough to be self sufficient, I'd probably need another 600 watts, so I end up running the generator for ~1.5 hours a day, which isn't bad and not much more then when I had the Norcold.

Plus the Samsung's temperture stays where it's set and it will drop ice all day long, I gave it a good test in 2021 when I was in ND in +100F temps in full sun and the fridge stayed cold. 

So all in all I'm glad I went residential.  Not saying if I found my dream coach with a Norcold I wouldn't buy it but if I had two side my side I'd pick the one with a residential.

[birdshill123]

I would never install one of those 12 volt fridges. They are not very big. There is a reason why RV mfrs. do not install 12 volt units.  Our first fridge was a side by side

 About 19 cu. ft. New one is  a 22 cu. ft. French door. It is amazing. When shopping for groceries we can buy larger packages. I had to lower the floor but it was no big deal.

 

[Dr4Film]

54 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Samsung makes the worst appliances known to man. Same for LG. Dealers carry them as they get great discounts.

Do not take the easy way.

I have a very different opinion of Samsung than yours. The Samsung RF-197 installed in my previous Windsor has been running non-stop for 11 years. Not sure when the Samsung RF-197 was installed in our now 2006 Dynasty but it has had to be there for possibly the same number of years or close to it.

Plus we have a larger Samsung fridge installed in our winter house in Florida back in 2016 when we purchased the house.

The only problem I had was remedied back in 2012 with the one in the Windsor with the replacement of the main fridge compartment Defrost Clip with a larger one. We had water collecting under the crisper bins. That work was done under warranty by a local Samsung service department. After purchasing the Dynasty, I removed the back panel and installed the larger Defrost Clip into that fridge also before using it so I wouldn't have any problem in the future.

[birdshill123]

Just Google and you will see multiple lawsuits. I am glad yours has been a good unit. 

[Paul J A]

Take a look at https://www.fisherpaykel.com/us/cooling/refrigeration/.  

[Rich Cutler]

I converted to the Samsung RF 197 or RF18.  Cannot remember now.  I use the MSW original inverter.   Love the unit.  Should have converted the day I bought the Windsor used (1yr old) instead of fighting the NoCold unit.   If you ever intend to resell, I think it best to have a residential.  If you are uncomfortable with MSW and inverter compressor, it is cheaper to install a small PSW inverter for the refrigerator alone.

[jacwjames]

10 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

Just Google and you will see multiple lawsuits. I am glad yours has been a good unit. 

The lawsuits all involve the larger residential refrigerators, does not include the RF18, or at least it didn't the last time I looked. 

In reality, there is potential any brand to fail. 

My brother LG failed still under warranty, they fixed it but took months.

A friend had a Whirlpool fail, most people would have tossed it, he called me and I come up with a couple common problmes and he ended up having to replace the main board, ~$150 but a repairman would have cost much more, probably making it uneconomic. 

I have had trouble with my Frigidaire but it was out of warranty.  I recently had to pull the whole icemaker out to defrost, it was completely frozen/iced over.  Not sure why. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by jacwjames

[Pudgy Camper]

Thanks for all of the input everyone!

After looking at all the options, I think I'm going to go with a Dometic 4101 12v compressor refrigerator. It's only a 10 cu ft, but has excellent reviews and should work great for just me and the wife. Its dimensions work out perfect to replace my existing Norcold 1200 and still leaves room for a small pull out pantry next to it. The cost of the Dometic 12v (about $1500) is more than most residential fridges I considered, but the pros still out weigh the cons (in my case).

I would have really liked to upsize to the RF18 but its too tall and I would have needed to perform major surgery on my opening. Some of the other residential fridges would work without a lot of modification to the opening, but with all the other work I'm doing to this coach, I figured simple is better and I won't need to upgrade my inverter at the moment. 

Thanks again and I'll update once I get around to the install!

[Dr4Film]

10 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I have had trouble with my Frigidaire but it was out of warranty.  I recently had to pull the whole ice maker out to defrost, it was completely frozen/iced over.  Not sure why. 

Is your ice maker located in the fridge compartment versus the freezer? Is it a top fridge bottom freezer layout?

My Samsung at home which is a 23 cu/ft fridge has the ice maker in the fridge compartment located on the left side. It is that way with fridges that provide water and ice through the left side door. The ice maker gets frozen up occasionally due to the flapper on the exit port on the door not closing tightly. So, I have to clean that opening every so often. Also, we only make ice to fill the bin, then we turn it off until the next cycle. That procedure seems to have minimized the ice maker getting frozen up inside.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Pudgy Camper said:

Thanks for all of the input everyone!

After looking at all the options, I think I'm going to go with a Dometic 4101 12v compressor refrigerator. It's only a 10 cu ft, but has excellent reviews and should work great for just me and the wife. Its dimensions work out perfect to replace my existing Norcold 1200 and still leaves room for a small pull out pantry next to it. The cost of the Dometic 12v (about $1500) is more than most residential fridges I considered, but the pros still out weigh the cons (in my case).

I would have really liked to upsize to the RF18 but its too tall and I would have needed to perform major surgery on my opening. Some of the other residential fridges would work without a lot of modification to the opening, but with all the other work I'm doing to this coach, I figured simple is better and I won't need to upgrade my inverter at the moment. 

Thanks again and I'll update once I get around to the install!

Without totally scouring this thread, do not under any circumstances, leave in the insulation around the gas refrigerator.  Check the required clearances on each side.  Do not fabricate or purchase a fancy facade or frame so that the “gap” beside or above LOOKS LIKE the Norcold.  You will need max air circulation.  You will also need to insulate or seal off the top vent or the top side vent….and the bottom access vent.  You do NOT need to vent this unit.  Heating and cooling will be way more difficult if you don’t do this. The Dometic and Norcold were side and top insulated for safety (CO2 fumes) as well as HVAC efficiency.  Many folks, early on made a mistake and thought that insulating was necessary as well as venting.  The Samsung will not run if the vent was lest in place and you hit the high 20’s.  That is NORMAL.  The new Energy Star ratings made all residential refrigerators unsuitable for a back porch or an unheated garage….they now sell “all weather units”.

You should be well pleased as long as you follow the above….

[rustykramermetalfab]

I am not going to argue about Res VS JC upgrade.  I had JC install the new 12V upgrade while on a trip this spring.  It works really well cools down quickly and stays cold.  There seem to be  happy campers with both residential and conversions done by JC.