Total out. an 07 Diplomat

[Joel Sheriff]

Gentleman and ladies especially Tom and Scotty, I'm in dilemma.  I just rolled into a cement pole after thinking the brake was  established. Long and short of it 30k damage and climbing.  Owe 60k on balance. Do I ask geico for a totally destroyed figure. I've seen the book at 62 low book at 82k high and with extras 75k to 95k. With build sheet extras not my install extras I'm probably on the low side since I need 2 ac's, central floor work, slide floor work and body work  but I must have 40k in Solar, AGM's 46" tv rsising out of custom cabinet matching original perfectly with storage and a built in dinette.  New floor through out carpet in bedroom.  Wilson extender, satellite Dome all led's Residential fridge new roof sea level, ags power cords water and electric and more Approx 40000 extras added within last 8 years.  am only estimating don't have all bills. Do they take off all repair damaged in a total so with the 30 plus k and floor damage and other blemished body work as well as the   117000 miles be a major factor. I'm up in the air. Really want to continue but this coach had been a nightmare and this may be the best chance to get out. Please help as you all have during these past 16 years. Warm regards Joel 

[DavidL]

In general, you don't ask the insurance company to total it - the numbers will do that for you.

If the cost to repair exceeds the value of the RV - it's totalled.

The $'s are dependent on your insurance policy contract on if any of your upgrades are to be considered and what the cap amount of the coverage is for the type of incident.

In general, the insurance company doesn't care about any $'s you added in as upgrades when determining it's worth.

I assume you have already filed a claim and an adjuster has been in contact with you?

Best is to read your plan, and then discuss with the adjuster.  Keep in mind the adjuster works for the insurance company and will try to beat you out of any $'s they can.

Edited May 24, 2023 by DavidL

[Dr4Film]

Joel.

So sorry to hear of your predicament and damage to your coach. You never know what any insurance company may or may not do when it comes to totaling a vehicle. It's really up to them.

When I purchased my 2006 Saturn Vue back in 2008 it had been totaled out and purchased by an individual who rebuilt it and had it for sale (salvage title) for $7500. The current book value at the time was twice that, $15K. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that car with 23K on it when I test drove it and bought it on the spot. It now has 168K on the ODO. I cant imagine how the insurance company justified to total the car back in 2008 with the type of damage it had but they did.

When talking about totaling a RV coach you are looking at much larger numbers.

[Scotty Hutto]

Joel,

I’ve not dealt with that before, but I know there are those on here who have and will likely give good advice  

if insurance totals the vehicle, it may be worthwhile to pay for a third-party appraisal that includes all of your improvements to assist with negotiations…  I can tell you it is a negotiation, and typically the first offer you get from insurance will be a lowball offer. Be prepared with facts and information to negotiate.

The other thing that occurs to me is that if the insurance company won’t consider your improvements, you should remove as many as possible before relinquishing the vehicle to insurance. I realize the flooring can’t be salvaged, but other things can be removed and saved for your next coach.  

[MyronTruex]

The hidden damage could be immense.

Cabinets ripped loose, front run panel damaged but problems not seen. Damage to the steps and cover. Tile jammed back and damage not noticed. I can think of a lot of things that could get slammed.

 

[Guest Ray Davis]

Joel, tough time for sure, so sorry to hear about your predicament.   As already stated the insurance co is not likely to care about your improvements, on the other hand, I don't feel it's your responsibility to point out any deficiencies or needed repairs to them.  However, I would never lie or intentionally mislead them.  

It sounds like you have your coach outfitted really nicely,  just the way you want it.   Isn't that life

[Joel Sheriff]

That's a big part of the decision process. It took a long time to make it my home. NOW? 

[Ivan K]

Joel, I had ~30k damage estimate to our 2000 five years ago, in 2018. With aroud 160k miles. They hired an independent adjuster and I remember that the salvage value of the coach was very much in play when they decided not to total and pay out. They have a formula to decide to total or not. It took few weeks for the adjuster to show up so I had plenty time to make sure there is no hidden damage. It worked out good for us since I did all the repairs (except windshield) myself so I know it's done right and used the large sum allocated to labor to make upgrades. It was a happy ending for us, hope yours works out good for you too which ever way you want it to go.

[Joel Sheriff]

Thanks Ivan, not certain at this point in time.  This particular coach had been a real pain for house and everything other than engine, drive train and genny. The big hitters. 

[waterskier_1]

That seems like a lot of damage for just "rolling into a cement pole".  In any case I'll offer my experience from when I was run off the road into a ditch and hit a tree limb in 2005 in my 1997 Dynasty.  First, I have Allstate Insurance.  I had "Actual Cash Value" insurance, and it was insured for $40,000.  Note that I found that "Actual Cash Value" means not what Blue Book says, although that is used in calculating the value.  You have to prove the value.  You can't just insure a $10,000 coach for $1,000,000 and expect to get $1,000,000 if it is totaled.  I first took it to a "recommended" repair place suggested by Allstate.  I understand why Allstate insured people like it, they pull out all the stops, including "fixing" things that are not broke or even existed.  Their estimate was $42, 336.07.  That included replacing 2 windshields, 2 Right Hand Side View Mirrors, 2 complete Carefree Awnings (I only had one damaged, and it was only one arm), and fully painting the 40 ft side of my 32-ft long coach.  I was furious.  Plus they would not release my coach until I (or Allstate) either agreed to have it repaired, or paid $3,500 for the "free estimate" plus $50/day "storage fees" for the 3-weeks they had it to do the estimate.  I claimed it was Fraud, but Allstate ended up paying for the release, since the cost was more than the insured value.  Now, they decided to "total" out the coach.  They stated that when the repair estimate exceed 75% of the insured value, they will total it.  The 75% comes, in part, from the fact there may be unseen or unknown things come up once the repair process starts.  I though seriously of accepting the roughly $35,000 ($40,000 less the $3,500 "estimate" fee and less the recovery fee to get me out of the ditch.  The buy-back was around $11,000.  But in Colorado, you can't insure a "totaled" or what the state calls "salvaged" vehicle (for comp and collision).  In order to full insure a "totaled" vehicle, it must be rebuilt to factor spec's, using original factory parts.  Well, as you all know, there are no original fiberglass factory front end caps for an 18 year old Monaco.  And even though I was pretty sure I could get it back in shape for around $10,000, I didn't want to take the chance of loosing $21,000 in a hail storm or an accident.  
I decided to take it to another repair shop that the Air Force Academy uses for their busses.  They came in with an estimate of $12,080.04, but I would have to buy some of the parts myself (the rear view mirror, just the arm of the carefree awning, the step, the headlights, and some other items.  That cost was under $1,500 shopping around.  It took a lot of negotiating for Allstate to accept this deal, but they ultimately did.  And I was very happy with the repairs, and the fact I had a fully insured coach back.
Now, some info on how they computed "Actual Cash Value (ACV)".  First, Allstate farms this out to a 3-rd party, likely to remove themselves from any disagreements.  The "adjuster" (not sure if that is the correct title), called me.  I had all my documentation ready.  First she asked me what model Dynasty I had, because NADA went by names (I think I had the Dutchess) not the size (32-ft).  Based on the questions, I knew she was looking at either Kelly Blue Book (KBB) or NADA guides.  I helped her find the coach in the guide, and then she proceeded to ask how many A/C's I had.  I knew right then (having been raised in an Auto sales family) that she had no idea how to use the guides.  The Guides, in KBB, NADA or Edmunds, all include factory supplied (non-option) equipment.  But she didn't know that.  Or didn't know the Monaco brands.  So she added, the refer, the furnace, the 2 A/Cs, both TVs all the awnings, and a host of other things that were all original equipment.  Then I went to all my upgrades, new TVs and Electronics, Solar, reupholstery (she wouldn't fall for the sheets and towels though).  Even kitchen pot & pans, dishes, electric appliances, everything I had a record of purchasing, I presented to her.  Before I was done, we had exceeded $45,000, and so the full insured value of $40,000 was met.

Now this was with Allstate (in Colorado if that matters).  But, my point is that you must fight and be prepared to justify all the expenses if you have ACV Insurance.  Note that most have "Replacement Cost" which is completely different.  That is determined by what similar vehicles sold for (but you don't add any upgrades (solar, inverters, Lithium Batteries, new electronics, etc.).  You can't "add" on to what the value of similar vehicles sells for.  

In your case, I'd definitely recommend getting 2 or 3 estimates from very reputable sources (not necessarily those the insurance company suggests), even if you have to drive it 500 miles (assuming it is drivable).  That 500 miles is a drop in the bucket of the overall costs.  Of course, if you think you want to get rid of this coach, for whatever reason, then this might be the time to do it.  I doubt that you would ever recover the balance due plus the repair costs if you were to sell immediately.  But I don't think you would ever get what a repaired (properly) coach will yield by parting it out.

  -Rick N.

Colorado Springs, CO

[Joel Sheriff]

Thanks Rick but the air ride, arm of the suspension bent I back nto the wheel well locking tire in outward position necessitating a tow.  It's at my choice of shop for repair and he's pretty honest. 

20230426_142108.heic

[Dr4Film]

OMG!

OUCH!

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

I went through a similar situation with my house after a tornado hit it.  I had the actual replacement cost rider on my house.  This is how it worked for me.  

The insurance adjuster came in to determine the loss.  He depreciated the loss to 50%.  He cut me a check for that amount.  Then it was up to me to get the repairs done.  I hired a contractor to make the repairs.  Once the repairs were done and I was billed, the insurance company reimbursed the difference.  Since there were more homes in my area that got hit by the tornado, I had to wait in line for 6 months for work to be done.  A very eye opening experience for me.  Chuck B.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

My insurance adjuster factored in enough money to reimburse me for my deductible.

[Tom Cherry]

On vacation, but here is my take.  Doing this as I ice down my shoulders from the PT of a new shoulder….FUN FUN….

Everyone has given you good advice.  I will try to focus and prioritize and summarize what i know and have done.  I was also the “insuarnce” guy that had to fix the damage from a tornado, a flood and an acid spill (inside a commercial truck where our idiot lift truck driver played Richard Petty and ate the bed and damages the frame of an almost new box truck).  So, I worked with our claims adjuster as well as helping my daughter in a mega accident as well as getting my wife’s 2014 Valentines gift (a new ATS) fixed…so i have some real life experience as well as a close cousin that was a very successful Agent with a major company so he knew how to maximize your final claim

IT NEEDS, IMHO, and based on what i know personally as well as the comments and the picture….to be totaled.  NOW…as i said…MY opinion…but you and your wife are more emotionally attached….so please take that into account…but, you did ask….

• independent adjuster will be worth the cost.  That helps in the negotiations.
• make sure the independent adjuster knows about all the upgrades.  He will, if savvy, factor in for more leverage.
• Forget you have AC and Floor issues.  Tempted to edit your post.  Do NOT mention or even go there.  The fewer “well, it really needs….”, the better.  Don’t TELL and Don’t VOLUNTEER and Don’t get into “everything is perfect”…just emphasize it is YOUR HOME and you live in it.
• Read your policy.  Your agent is supposed to represent you.  See if you have a living expense allowance.
• Do NOT be anxious to get this settled so “you can move on”.  If things really so South and you end up with Scrooge McDuck as the claims adjuster, be firm and not bullied.  Ask the Body Shop manager for the name of a good independent adjuster.  They may also know of a similar issue….and can give you a little insight.
• You might want to even think about an attorney…but that is the last step and his fee or “%” might not be worth it….but having that as an option and making sure the adjuster knows you are serious is the message….

Good luck in this.  Keep focused.  Remember you paid the premiums and you should be treated fairly….

[Joel Sheriff]

Thanks Tom, though decision!  No permanent address kids in LA and Boston. Don't have a mil to drop in each location plus want to be with both kids and all 6 gc's . Been a decision maker my whole life. I don't want to  make this one ☹️

[jacwjames]

From the picture I would be surprised if it isn't totaled but you never know. 

After a bad experience when my wire was broadsided (by a drunk driver) in her Ford Ranger truck ~25 years ago I've learned to never trust an insurance adjuster and not to make nay rash decisions without reading the fine print.   I was dealing with the other drivers insurance company and misrepresented the documents he said we had to sign to release her truck, he totaled it and gave us allowances for condition, nice topper, and other stuff which seemed great.  Inquired about lost wages and medical stuff, my wife wasn't seriously injured but definitely hurt her with major bruising and motion issues, he said not to worry that would be taken care of.  In all the mix of papers he had sign was one that was a release for any future compensation.  My mistake for not reading the fine print of the ~20 pages of paper he handed us.  Called the next day about Dr bills and he said "so sad, my bad" you aren't covered.  I won't name the insurance company but they are untrustworthy and I'm sure he got a big bonus for getting us to sign the release.  >>> Lesson learned, read the fine print.

Agree with Tom on all of his points. 

If you have good policy and are willing to take the settlement it might be something to look at.  It is becoming a buyers market now and you might be able to replace it with the settlement. 

If not then make sure the rig is fixed back to condition, the steering system and front axle have been compromised, I would be surprised if the don't have to be replaced.  All the electronics in the front drivers bay compartment (assume they are there) are compromised, every circuit will have to be checked due to damage to the main boards.  The front cage that the axles rides in is probably damaged, the whole thing will have to be removed and checked for damage and repaired, possibly replaced.  All of this is $$ in just the material (axle, steering box, suspension, tire and rim, electronics) and under the circumstances 2X that cost for labor. 

 

 

[Joel Sheriff]

Thanks Jim, I'm not aware of the hidden damaged but the main fuse box was undamaged. The small box under the main was obliterated. The right back side of the bay where the battery minder was is crashed and yes the air bags on road side were destroyed as were some cross members coming into that area. Axel not obviously  damaged but quoting 30k plus to repair. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Joel Sheriff

[MyronTruex]

As an electronic tech for almost 50 years and removing two way radios and other apparatus from wrecked customer vehicles I can tell you there could easily be hidden damage. A nearby crushed ckt board would be a huge red flag to me that anything nearby could easily have been assaulted by a severe shock.

Hairline fractures you cannot see on a circuit board can open when under loads and fail under use. 

I would love to see pictures. I wonder what the framework in the house took as it moved forward even slightly. 

[Joel Sheriff]

Myron, here is what I have. The clear pix are of a similar coach bay 

20230426_142108.heic 20230426_142033.heic 20230426_142008.heic 20230426_141959.heic

[MyronTruex]

Was your generator damaged?

That is a lot of labor for repair and painting for sure. I wonder if they can get a front cap.

That looks like weeks and months of work for sure. I would definitely be worried about that front run panel having hidden damage. 

A very very close inspection to see if there is any sign of pressure around that box for sure. 

It is lucky there was no fire since both batteries are fed below the panel. I know they are fuse/breaker protected but there was a potential. 

My concerns about the force hurting cabinets and the house framework are eased seeing the way it was damaged. No head on collision.