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3 hours ago, rpasetto said:

I'm puzzled by the term 'fake 50amp'.  I've run into some pedestals where both 'hot pins' on the 50 amp are connected to the same 120v leg,  I'll call this "Fake-50amp-1".   Normally the "hot" legs on a 50amp are have a difference of 240vAC between the two.  Then each leg serves as a return for the current drawn on the other leg with the neutral taking care of any imbalance.   If both legs of the 50 amp are actually on the same leg (the voltage pin-to-pin will be zero); any heavy current draw could overload the neutral which must serve as the return for both hot legs in that case.   I can test this on my device using a voltmeter between the 'hots' of the two outlets.

The other thing I've heard about, call it "Fake-50amp-2", is where the legs are opposite, but fed by wiring which has lower current carrying capacity than 50a, maybe one wire is feeding a 30amp receptacle and the other a 20 amp on a different leg but in the same pedestal.  Not sure how to test for that except to check that connections aren't getting hot.

A "Fake 50 Amp" pedestal was explained above in one of my previous posts dated June 16 last year. It will have a 50 amp circuit breaker and a 50 amp receptacle but it will NOT be a true 50 amp supply, hence the term "Fake 50 Amp".

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On 6/15/2020 at 11:06 AM, Steve Hepfer said:

While recently camping we experienced what seemed like a short cycle on the front A/C. I then noticed that the Progressive EMS panel gave me an error code of PE2 which is an open ground. I reset the breaker at the pedestal and it didn't occur again. Any ideas on why it would read as an open ground and then go away? Is this likely something to do with the campground or our coach? TIA

Steve,

I will OFFER another theory....and some, unsolicited, advice. 

FIRST....maybe the Neutral wire(s) in the pedestal panel were "loose" or corroded....and just the vibration of tripping and turning back on the CB did the trick.  Stranger things have happened.

SECOND...and this happened to me...  You have a LOOSE Neutral in your SHORE Plug.  I barely bumped the back of the shore plug with a cargo door one time. NOT a wind black or such...just opened the door and there was not enough clearance and the edge of the bay door bumped (would not have caused a bruise on my hand or arm) the plug. BINGO...Open Neutral. I trouble shot it and called Tommy Fanelli, the owner and founder of Progressive, personally, as I had his cell phone. He walked me through it.  I tried it on the 30 dog bone....still an open neutral. 

Got home....pulled the Engine Air Intake hose out so I could get to the terminal box. ALL TIGHT. Before I started to troubleshoot the Shore Wire Reel (power), I cut off the plug and stole one from my Emergency Generator Connector....which was a 50Amp. BINGO....FIXED IT.

I am STILL using that plug and that was circa 2014. I DO carry a NEW Camco 50 A Male in case I have an issue.

My advice....  Be a big spender and order a NEW 50A Camco from Amazon. They are actually different now as the body is a bit longer. In Canada, I had to do a little Swiss Army knife work on a box (the CG owner did not see me) so that the older style would fit.

The Progressive WORKS....TRUST IT...  You can also verify with a VOM the Open Neutral. It saved my fanny...

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On 1/21/2021 at 8:10 AM, rpasetto said:

@Dennis, I built something very similar to yours; use it in suspected/unknown CGs but probably should use it every time. 

I'm puzzled by the term 'fake 50amp'.  I've run into some pedestals where both 'hot pins' on the 50 amp are connected to the same 120v leg,  I'll call this "Fake-50amp-1".   Normally the "hot" legs on a 50amp are have a difference of 240vAC between the two.  Then each leg serves as a return for the current drawn on the other leg with the neutral taking care of any imbalance.   If both legs of the 50 amp are actually on the same leg (the voltage pin-to-pin will be zero); any heavy current draw could overload the neutral which must serve as the return for both hot legs in that case.   I can test this on my device using a voltmeter between the 'hots' of the two outlets.

The other thing I've heard about, call it "Fake-50amp-2", is where the legs are opposite, but fed by wiring which has lower current carrying capacity than 50a, maybe one wire is feeding a 30amp receptacle and the other a 20 amp on a different leg but in the same pedestal.  Not sure how to test for that except to check that connections aren't getting hot.   

 

Lots of ways for campgrounds to cheat, and lots of incentive due to the cost of wiring and breakers.
They should be subject to inspection to make sure they meet codes, but not sure how much enforcement is being done. (Apparently not much).

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On 1/21/2021 at 9:34 AM, Hypoxia said:

Did the "Fake 50 Amp 1" pedestal have a 50 amp breaker?  I haven't run into that although that's what a 50 to 30 adapter does. 

Your "Fake 50 amp 2" is what the cheater boxes do, I use one frequently for 30 amp 240 volt input.  It's rare to be able to use the 20 amp receptacle as they are normally GFI. 

My transfer switch/surge guard is a hardwired Southwire 40350-RVC which works well along with a Hughes Autoformer.  In Mexico the Southwire unit shut the electric off due to high voltage (140 VAC on each leg) at night.  It shuts it off above 132 VAC, I think the Progressive unit has the same parameters.

Yes, the "fake 50amp-1" had a 50 amp breaker.  It's pretty easy to find if you check voltage between the two "hot" pins on the 50 amp and get 0.  (Either "hot to neutral should be 110v to 120v.  Voltage between the two hots should be 220v-240v if the outlet is properly wired.)  I recall vaguely that this happened more than once to me.

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I found one in a California State Campground using this tester. We found the "Fake  50amp" receptacle was mis-wired. Upon pulling the pedestal apart, we discovered it didn't even have 50 amp service, simply a 50 amp receptacle wired with a "jumper" to Leg 2. And this was a STATE campground!.....Dennis

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I found that in a City Park in Florida. Had a 50 Amp receptacle. Also a 30 and a 50 Amp Breaker. HMMMM....Checked them out.  All the "premium" sites with 50A were FAKE 50's. So much for electrical inspections and sign off's.

The Intellitec EMS did not show 50...only clue.  Had to run AquaHot for heat as only one HP would run.

If you purchase additional leads for your meter that are thin and longer, then you can test the outlet. Otherwise, you gotta cheat and then pull out the Shore plug and test the pins...

There are more of them out there than you think...

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2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

All the "premium" sites with 50A were FAKE 50's.

They get more money for those "premium" sites too. What a ripoff!

The testers that I build and sell have an indicator light on top that will let you know when the pedestal is a "Fake 50 Amp" one. That way you can ask for a different site even before spending the time to "set up camp".

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Did you read the second review. I don't know the skill set of the individual and it is difficult to follow the logic of a "channel".  I would be a little dubious...

Progressive Industries was sold and Tommy Fannelli, founder and original owner, is not there and the policies have changed.

I DO trust their HW50C....as I KNOW it works.

Just a comment....

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1 hour ago, veraken said:

Just ordered the following item which looks simple and relatively inexpensive.  Missing the voltmeter, but can always use a voltmeter if needed.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088D2JVN4/?coliid=I3Q8M56ZEA2O87&colid=2SKIZ1L3ZC7J5&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

 

That Progressive Industries 50A RV Receptacle Tester does not  appear to test the voltage difference between the two legs, so It is sort of the equivalent of plugging one of the $10 GFI testers into outlets on both L1 and L2. 

19 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

They get more money for those "premium" sites too. What a ripoff!

The testers that I build and sell have an indicator light on top that will let you know when the pedestal is a "Fake 50 Amp" one. That way you can ask for a different site even before spending the time to "set up camp".

I like that idea of a light on the test box to determine voltage between L1 and L2.  Searched and there are a few devices out there, even cheap meters, so I will add that to my tester.

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