JDCrow Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 By now most know the weight issues, or lack of weight on the front axle. I already have the front bags down a 1/2” from recommended height in the front and 1/2” up in the rear. Coming back from the coast I still had bouncing (porpoising), several bobs up and down. I picked these up after reading reviews on irv and other places. We are off to AZ in a few weeks and will see how it rolls. DW is determined to “like” the coach so I need to get her off calling it the “Rolling Breadbox of Death” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 Shocks be the culprit for porpoising. I know first hand. When the shocks fail, the rebound or recovery acts like a pendulum. My OEM Monroes died….FUGLY. Source Engineering sells air enhancement kits….that dampens the effect. The OEM Bilsteins were too harsh. That is what launched the Source “custom valved” Bilstein development program. The Source shocks, it has been posted, are now at a competitive price point with Koni. I like mine. The vote is split between upper end shocks….Source V Koni…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV48 Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 The Watts link in front and cross bars in rear made our coach corner like a sports car and the tail wag is gone. Looking to put the cross bars on the front too. Just had Cary from Kaiser Brake & Alignment, in Eugene , tune up our alignment and inspect the king pins and other running gear. He was very caught up in wheeling around on test drives. Maybe the shortest wheel base in a pusher at 196 inches but our baby can corner. I gave him an opening to sell me shocks, but he passed on replacing the Bilsteins on there. After deliberately crossing some tracks and gutters he said it pretty well stops bouncing on the second bounce which is all you can hope for with our RR8R chassis. Kaiser in Eugene and Henderson's Lineup in Grants Pass seem to be the Gold Standard for undercarriage. Both were recommended to me by Source Engineering Inc. the guys who designed the specialty shocks for our rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 Thanks both, I have Front bilsteins, front and rear watts, rear cross bars, and front source sway bar. I’m also a 34’ coach. These baffles are from Henderson’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Very interesting. Definitely let us know your results, and your wife’s opinion of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Ha, " Rolling breadbox of Death" 😂! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 27 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Ha, " Rolling breadbox of Death" 😂! The day I started to bring it home, I was blown off the road 2 times. I thought I’d broke something. We took a trip down Utah into AZ to see the big parks and she was a bit squirmy, she hasn’t felt safe in it. It doesn’t bother me Mughal it’s way better now. We do look forward to a larger tag coach in the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 6 minutes ago, JDCrow said: We do look forward to a larger tag coach in the next year. They are much more 'planted' on the road! I recall a couple of white knuckle mountain descents in 'High Wind Area's', driving my previous 36' gasser 😬! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 20 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: They are much more 'planted' on the road! I recall a couple of white knuckle mountain descents in 'High Wind Area's', driving my previous 36' gasser 😬! Hey you have an 08, talk to me about your engine. Emissions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 28 minutes ago, JDCrow said: Hey you have an 08, talk to me about your engine. Emissions? 400 ISL. EGR and a diesel particulate filter. No issues with either yet (knock on wood)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 15 hours ago, JDCrow said: Hey you have an 08, talk to me about your engine. Emissions? Same here for an 09 ISL425. There are MANY and I SAY MANY topics here. The consensus is... Very Reliable. However, many prefer older engines....which were the 07 and older. I had a buddy that special ordered 4 Navigators for himself and 3 other customers. He specified a 2008 MY but with a 2007 Engine... The Diesel Particulate Filter is like a Catalytic Converter with a "Cleaner". The ECM (we're talking Cummins now) is programmed to REGEN or burn off the "soot" every 100 hours. Pick a number... 80%, 90%, 95%...or maybe even higher never have an issue. The REGEN is AUTOMATIC. Built IN. It comes ON. Then it stays on for maybe 20 minutes....up to (personal experience) 90 minutes... THEN it shuts off. The REGEN cycle is injecting fuel {EDIT...via a blast of raw fuel on the Exhaust Stroke...controlled by the ECM. That then gets, DUH, ignited, so the DPF is torched or burned clean...all soot removed.....NOT a Fuel Injector like some of the DPF have....END EDIT}. into the DPF...and the "screens" or filter (innards) are torched and cleaned. The system is controlled, I believe, based on Inlet (Exhaust) pressure vs Outlet pressure. SO, if you get a BIG Delta P, it should start. NOW....nothing in life is perfect. When I drive a lot of suburban driving, the REGN light will flash on or off...sometimes stay on a few seconds....up to maybe a minute. When that happens it is sort of like a woman having a "False Labor" pain. BUT, the more it does it....then it will eventually do the REGEN. Frank McElroy went into my ECM around 50K. The REGEN cycles were like clockwork....every 100 Engine hours. So, you tend to ignore the flashing light and drive on. THAT IS MY EXPERIENCE....others might be different. The deal is...when the light lights UP...I usually downshift into 5th to kick up the RPM. It is also like a telemarketer...calling at the most inopportune time. Usually when one is headed to a CG and the road is a big "congested". My last cycle was that way when I drove home from storage. The REGEN stayed on....then never came on until I was about 20 miles into my trip. It HAD, I think, done maybe 10 minutes of burning...but that is a guess. So, once the engine got all warm and fuzzy and comfortable....it decided to REGEN. The light stayed on for maybe 20 minutes.... I did have one that lasted for a long time....that is abnormal...but it was also in almost 100 dF weather. When I pulled off to go to a planned stop...it was on...but went off after the first stop light acceleration. NEVER came on again. And Frank's Insite showed the hours and they were perfect 100. So, some of these minor ON and OFF were actually not registered in the ECM. NOW....SOME FOLK have had issues. ONE came from the PO telling the newbie to always run his Exhaust Brake. That got things out of kilter....and the ECM and such couldn't handle that. He probably could have had it "serviced and cleaned" by a Cummins shop...but he was on a trip. He put on a DPF. That is the ONLY one with issues that come to mind. NOW, like anything else....your car for example. When a sensor or a component goes bad....and the ECM system gets out of kilter....then it can cause soot and issues. That was the extreme.... To put it in perspective. I have owned at least 10 cars with airbags and know many as well. BUT, the car (2011 Maxima which had 100K) that my GS drove and passed down to his sister had a FLASHING SRS (Airbag) light. OK...Nissan says. That fancy pressure switch (Passenger Occupancy Sensor) in the front passenger seat is defective. Having a sensor (your SRS Airbag does a Diagnostic in 7 seconds EVERYTIME you start the car) is bad and the Brain (Airbag Control Module) has shut down because it can't work unless all the sensors and the airbags and the airbag batteries and God only knows WHAT ELSE...is 100%. Thus, flashing Airbag (SRS) light...NO AIRBAGS. OK....sensor is $1650. The Diagnostics was $250...just to tell us that. It will be another $550 to install. Total tab... $2,450 on a car that is barely worth (it has a few dents)...$3,500. How many folks have had to replace an OCCUPANCY SENSOR? Probably not a lot. That is the LUCK of the DRAW. My DPF works fine. I don't want to buy the DEF and have to fill two tanks....so, I am happy... That's it. EVERY owner can tell you a different tale. BUT, if you go back and search here and read...you hear about the ISSUES....so how many OTHER Monaco MH's have never, like I do, have issues. NEVER BUY A MH WITHOUT A CUMMINS DEALER DOING A SCAN OF THE ECM.... Like "look at a horses mouth" before you trade... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Don't think diesel is injected into the DPF behind the ISL engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 21 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Don't think diesel is injected into the DPF behind the ISL engine. I don’t know but I think I read that the DD15 did. (Separate injector) The Duramax did back in the day, and one of the deaths of the 6.4 Ford was instead of direct injection, the dumping of fuel in the back cylinders to get diesel into the DPF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 I think your correct on the DD. No idea how they heated the DPF on the pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 43 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Don't think diesel is injected into the DPF behind the ISL engine. Ben, you are correct. I was thinking about the "Generic" DPF. In our ISL's I think, that there is a blast of extra fuel on the EXHAUST Stroke...which obviously sends the raw fuel out the exhaust and, sort of like an Afterburner, it ignites and the DPF heats up and all the soot is cleaned off. Like we used to do with a propane torch on the idiotic spark arrestors on small engines. I edited my post for clarity.... https://www.delphiautoparts.com/en-gb/resource-center/article/making-sense-of-your-sensors-dpf-differential-pressure-sensor#:~:text=To keep the filter from,by converting it into ash. Lots of YouTube videos and such...and Cummins discusses....but, on ours...the ECM and the Pressure Differential measurements control it. Good catch. Thanks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivylog Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) Some Beaver 34’ DPs had a large steel weight up front in addition to the generator. Don’t let her ride in a tag axle coach. I made sure my 08 had a 06 engine as DPFilters started on 07 engines. Edited October 2 by Ivylog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 1 hour ago, Ivylog said: Some Beaver 34’ DPs had a large steel weight up front in addition to the generator. Don’t let her ride in a tag axle coach. I made sure my 08 had a 06 engine as DPFilters started on 07 engines. I’ve thought about this, adding weight to the front. Country Coach also weighted their fronts How can you tell other than looking for DPF filters if an 08 coach as an older engine? This is new to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Generally, you will find pre- DPF engines painted black. DPF equipped engines- red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivylog Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 (edited) 36 minutes ago, JDCrow said: I’ve thought about this, adding weight to the front. Country Coach also weighted their fronts How can you tell other than looking for DPF filters if an 08 coach as an older engine? This is new to me I made the salesman send me a picture of the exhaust system confirming there wasn’t any electrical connections before flying 2000 miles. I’d say my engine made in 12/06 is red and the only muffler looking thing doesn’t have wires into it Edited October 2 by Ivylog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 18 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Generally, you will find pre- DPF engines painted black. DPF equipped engines- red. OK….other than a VIN search….which REV may have….or NOT…as to the engine. In CUMMINS, yes…an 08, without a big old honking DPF hanging down….odds are a special build or one that got caught still “IN ASSEMBLY” when the OFFICIAL MY CHANGE OVER guy came out…like a New Years Eve Baby at midnight. Do some homework. Pull the sales brochures….an UPPER end MIGHT have a bigger HP DD engine….so, don’t ask if the DD’s had a hang down bulge. But….the rest of the flock has the Descending “testicle” DPF. I really don’t know what was used on the DD engines….but we have members that can chime in. Personally….my criteria would be different. I would worry MORE about the lighting and control systems and the chassis wiring…..NOW, don’t jump to a conclusion and say….ain’t gonna be a CCM. The 05’s….Dynasty and higher….generally and there were some early conversions….had HARD WIRING. In 2006…..BINGO….the Intellitec MPX for lighting and also several other switches….like slides and TV up/down were added. They took a CPU. Switches are next to impossible to find. We have at least 2, maybe 3 Experts here….that can program and fix boards and some have switches. M&M has not lived up to their former reputation and the shops that depend on them are now hitting more blank walls. Also….there are many (more than 5) different MPX modules…. So, they interchange….but have DIP switches….so, find the exact Intellitec PN….fine. Not out there….then you need an expert to help you restore 10 separate lighting circuits. Next UP. Pull the FRB and RRB on a 05 Dynasty….and 06. Front 06 has a plethora of boards….all custom made for Monaco by Intellitec. We have folks that can replace chips and reprogram….not, I believe, in M&M expertise. HMMMM….I turned down a beautiful Dynasty. Asking price was $50K above my Camelot….MSRP was $100 PLUS. I personally ammglad. I have a NICE HYBRID Intellitec MPX. Lights and pump and fans…..only 3 of the simpler Modules….and NOT a CPU…. My FRB & RRB has only one Intellitec board. NOW…the big FRB PCB could go. Folks have rebuilt and cloned them (fire). But….I understand how mine works. MY OPINION. Cummins can always fix a DPF. But, you lose a bunch of the upper end custom (last count….20 or so), who’s gonna work on that and rewire and put in items….and what about the entire interior….a CPU for that Model year and maybe 6 or 7 different and more complex modules. Just an aside….engines are nice…but loose the MPX or the FRB/RRB….part it out…. I help trouble shoot, up to a point, the MPX….never the boards….we have the experts…but I sleep better at night and enjoy mine knowing that a surge will not destroy electronics….and I have “resources”. BUT….good thread….just a shade of reality lurking in the shadows….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 So there were just a bunch of engines or chassis prebuilt just laying around? I guess that makes sense only build what is needed, but don’t want to wait for parts. James over on his channel just ran into a coach that was an original Monaco, but had a Navistar VIN. I believe it was a 2010 Diplomat 2 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said: OK….other than a VIN search….which REV may have….or NOT…as to the engine. In CUMMINS, yes…an 08, without a big old honking DPF hanging down….odds are a special build or one that got caught still “IN ASSEMBLY” when the OFFICIAL MY CHANGE OVER guy came out…like a New Years Eve Baby at midnight. Do some homework. Pull the sales brochures….an UPPER end MIGHT have a bigger HP DD engine….so, don’t ask if the DD’s had a hang down bulge. But….the rest of the flock has the Descending “testicle” DPF. I really don’t know what was used on the DD engines….but we have members that can chime in. Personally….my criteria would be different. I would worry MORE about the lighting and control systems and the chassis wiring…..NOW, don’t jump to a conclusion and say….ain’t gonna be a CCM. The 05’s….Dynasty and higher….generally and there were some early conversions….had HARD WIRING. In 2006…..BINGO….the Intellitec MPX for lighting and also several other switches….like slides and TV up/down were added. They took a CPU. Switches are next to impossible to find. We have at least 2, maybe 3 Experts here….that can program and fix boards and some have switches. M&M has not lived up to their former reputation and the shops that depend on them are now hitting more blank walls. Also….there are many (more than 5) different MPX modules…. So, they interchange….but have DIP switches….so, find the exact Intellitec PN….fine. Not out there….then you need an expert to help you restore 10 separate lighting circuits. Next UP. Pull the FRB and RRB on a 05 Dynasty….and 06. Front 06 has a plethora of boards….all custom made for Monaco by Intellitec. We have folks that can replace chips and reprogram….not, I believe, in M&M expertise. HMMMM….I turned down a beautiful Dynasty. Asking price was $50K above my Camelot….MSRP was $100 PLUS. I personally ammglad. I have a NICE HYBRID Intellitec MPX. Lights and pump and fans…..only 3 of the simpler Modules….and NOT a CPU…. My FRB & RRB has only one Intellitec board. NOW…the big FRB PCB could go. Folks have rebuilt and cloned them (fire). But….I understand how mine works. MY OPINION. Cummins can always fix a DPF. But, you lose a bunch of the upper end custom (last count….20 or so), who’s gonna work on that and rewire and put in items….and what about the entire interior….a CPU for that Model year and maybe 6 or 7 different and more complex modules. Just an aside….engines are nice…but loose the MPX or the FRB/RRB….part it out…. I help trouble shoot, up to a point, the MPX….never the boards….we have the experts…but I sleep better at night and enjoy mine knowing that a surge will not destroy electronics….and I have “resources”. BUT….good thread….just a shade of reality lurking in the shadows….. This is the next road I need to spend time with. I hear about the dreaded Kongsberg coaches, and the above James at AZ expert goes on and on about making sure there is a “green” board in the front electrical bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 45 minutes ago, JDCrow said: So there were just a bunch of engines or chassis prebuilt just laying around? I guess that makes sense only build what is needed, but don’t want to wait for parts. James over on his channel just ran into a coach that was an original Monaco, but had a Navistar VIN. I believe it was a 2010 Diplomat This is the next road I need to spend time with. I hear about the dreaded Kongsberg coaches, and the above James at AZ expert goes on and on about making sure there is a “green” board in the front electrical bay You need to tour a MH factory or an auto assembly plant. Chassis were built. There may (and that is a big MAY) have been a few brackets or different parts for the various engines. The big thing was all the support issues….such as how the radiator and coolant hoses were routed and sizes as well as the entire side radiator “stack”. Monaco ordered engines a year or more ahead. A real production and forecasting nightmare. Then, what if no one was buying the MH with the stock engines….and they didn’t have enough of the optional engines. In the final days….maybe 6 months, times at Monaco were tight. Suppliers would not ship for fear of being stiffed…. Example. There are TWO versions of the ISL 425 that were used. The Camelot/Scepter engine ONLY had the VGT Exhaust brake…. that same engine….only difference was the valving on the head….same head…just a few more parts….had the 2 position Jacob’s brake. Towards the end….not many Dynasties were produced….so, Monaco began dropping in the Dynasty mill in Camelot & Scepter….ECM was different. A little MORE complicated….the Cruise was programmed differently as the Dynasty had a different configuration. Engage the Exhaust Brake….or turn it on, the ECM had to verify the position of the two stage Jacob’s brake….and then know how to handle the fuel. But a Dynasty also had a different “cancel” circuit. On the Camelot…at least mine….the exhaust brake did NOT cancel the cruise. On a Dynasty, it did. Reprogramming mine just like a Dynasty would not make the cruise cancel as my brake and VIP controls and such were different. There were at least 20 - 50 Scepter Camelots that were in the queue or started that got a Dynasty 2 stage Jacob’s brake engine….but they were frozen….bankruptcy. All 09 MY VINS…but Navistar renamed them as 2010. I had a build sheet for one that was to be mine….and it ended up as being sold as a 2010…as I found a new Camelot on a CW lot when Monaco flushed their storage lots….HOW I KNOW? it had a res refer. Called Navistar…gave them the VIN to get the brand and model of the Res. NOPE…not a 2009. Same VIN…but sold and titled as a 2010. Sooo..your answer….when there was NOT a component (engine good example), Monaco dumpster dived into the “we over ordered” warehouse. Think about the toys that Santa kept as one of the little boys was reclassified as NAUGHTY…and the home office contacted Santa and said….”Scratch the Batman outfit for JDC….his sheet (201 file) is NOW NAUGHTY….so the Batman outfit came back and the elves stored it away….for next year…or it got lost. YES….that sounds like a “BS TALE”, but if you ever had to schedule or build a complex assembly….like a carburetor and Ford underestimated how many F150 BIG SIX were gonna be need with California Emissions….and then called….we need 525 more CA CARBS….and we said….we ain’t got all the parts (275 separate parts in a carburetor)…I was responsible for Blue Prints and BOM …. you scrounged and figured out what would work that you had and what, if you used that, what ELSE would have to be changed so it met Emissions…. MH schedules were a nightmare….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted October 2 Author Share Posted October 2 That makes sense. Especially at the end of operations. Kinda a crazy time I guess. Gives me a lot of food for thought when coach shopping. Here I thought I had a pretty good grip on years and engines 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 12 minutes ago, JDCrow said: That makes sense. Especially at the end of operations. Kinda a crazy time I guess. Gives me a lot of food for thought when coach shopping. Here I thought I had a pretty good grip on years and engines 😂 In hindsight, I wouldn't buy another heavy coach with an exhaust brake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivylog Posted October 3 Share Posted October 3 2 hours ago, JDCrow said: This is the next road I need to spend time with. I hear about the dreaded Kongsberg coaches, and the above James at AZ expert goes on and on about making sure there is a “green” board in the front electrical bay Fortunately, Monaco bought a bunch of extra 06 engines. Dynasty and above have a true Jake brake. You do not want a green board, you want multiple green boards as the second picture is the FRB with a Konsberg green board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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