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Hydraulic Filter Reservoir


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My 2007 Camelot used 3 internal stacked filters and Dextron 3 ATF. I drained the reservoir, removed the cover, filters, cleaned the reservoir, installed new filters, and refilled with about 4 gallons of new fluid. My tank was pretty clean and rust free.

 

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On 7/8/2020 at 9:39 PM, richmelcole@sbcglobal.net said:

It's time to change fluid and filters in the reservoir.  I believe the fluid should be Dexron 3 ATF and filters Fleetguard 87610A.  I have never done this service before and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Richard

OK....from the ARCHIVES.....There are TWO (at least to my knowledge) Hydraulic Systems in use.  BOTH were called NELSON.  Fleetguard bought Nelson....so you never know.

The basics.  

The ORIGINAL larger MH's had a 4- 5 Gallon Nelson system.  That is the big black reservoir with the screw in (like a milk cap) dipstick on the top.  You unscrew.  the markings are for HOT and COLD.    That takes the THREE filters in the picture.

NOW.....later on....Monaco went cheap and bought the SMALLER reservoirs.  They are around 1.5 - 2 Gallons.  That system ONLY HAS ONE FILTER.

How am I so sure....I read all the posts and bought three.  OPPS....my 2009  Camelot has the smaller.....I bought THREE.....it only had ONE.  So much for READING the manual.

NOW....to add to the confusion....  There MAY or may NOT be an additional Spin On filter (Zinga?).  That is the filter with a gage on it.  it is most like a RED, YELLOW and GREEN filter.  It is an additional SPIN ON Hydraulic Filter.  So, you have TWO filters (assuming you have the second).  The first filter(s) is in the Reservoir and then there is a downstream Pressure filter.  OK..

KEEP READING....

Monaco was SUPPOSED to have converted from a Texaco AW46 (memory) HYDRAULIC FLUID or OIL to Automatic Transmission Fluid circa 2005 or so.  OPPS....we have motor homes that are 2008's that got the AW46 Fluid.  SUPPOSEDLY, the AW46 would FREEZE and blow out the steering sector or damage the cooling section when you got into the minus numbers.  We HAVE had two or three failures....where the person overnighted and it got really cold and started the engine and had a gusher under the motor.  THAT is fact and not FOLKLORE.

Monaco converted to the ATF that was supposed to ELIMINATE that.  TRW also became the prime supplier for the Steering Sector (up front) and they recommended that Monaco switch (or that seems to be the tale) to ATF.  The Shepherds MAY have OIL.  I don;t KNOW.  Van Williams and others with more history can chime in.  

I would do this.....FIRST before I bought or ordered anything.  Remove the BAND Clamp on the reservoir.  Then pull off the top (with the Dipstick in it).

LOOK at the fluid.  Dip a rag or a paper towel in it.  If it is STRAW or YELLOW it is the Texaco AW46 or PURE Hydraulic Fluid.  IF it is RED....then you have ATF or Automatic Transmission Fluid.

NOW....you know WHAT to purchase.  I purchased the Texaco that the manual said.  OPPS....I had ATF.

The next step is what you need to KNOW.  If you can snag or use a wire and pull the filter.....then if you have ONE filter....you have the SMALLER reservoir.  If there are THREE stacked....then you have the larger reservoir.  The Filters are the SAME. 

BUT, I THINK that the Filters are DIFFERENT.  Mine has the SINGLE Filter.  It is ONLY 4" High.  It is a 

BUT, I THINK that the Filters are DIFFERENT.  Mine has the SINGLE Filter.  It is ONLY 4" High.  The 84101B or perhaps the 84101B-20 is a taller filter  I found the following..... 5-1/8" HIGH

Along with the Nelson 84101B, there are some others that cross-reference:
Donaldson P550698
Fleetguard HF6238
Wix 57196
GMC 15513845 

BOTTOM LINE....you need to determine if you have the LARGER (probably taller...way taller) reservoir.....or if you have the shorter (probably fatter or wider) reservoir.

You can measure the depth of the oil and the radius and the height.  Calculate the Cubic Inches (V = Radius SQUARED times PI (3.1416) times HEIGHT (depth of oil).  THEN divide the Cubic Inches or Volume by 231.  That is the NUMBER of gallons.  It should be OBVIOUS then which one you hvae.

NOW>>>  Some folks ARGUE with me.  But TRW Tech Support told me this.  

Do NOT mix (you can....but NOT recommended) Fluids.  

TRW NOW will only give the longer Service Intervals for their heavy duty equipment to TRANSYND or equivalent.  I drained my reservoir using a HOSE.  I did NOT want to loosen any fitting.  I put in Transynd.  I have done that ONCE since then.  I ain't gonna mess with it again.  The Mobil Delvac Synthetic ATF is as good, IMHO, as the Allison Transynd.  YES....you pay more.  BUT, the TRW Tech said that he would do it if it was his MH as you will NEVER (OK....his opinion) have any issues and the small amount of the OEM ATF will not cause problems.

I decided that if I could not afford the difference in 2 gallons of Transynd (Or Delvac) that I could not afford to own and operate my MH.  

My THOUGHTS....and some FACTS.  

IF you do have the AW46, it needs to be changed probably every 3 or 4 years....but that varies with the opinions of the owners.  It will NOT, I think, as long as the ATF....

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Excellent post Tom!

I ran into the same issues as yourself, with wrong information in the owners/ and chassis manuals! I do have the Zinga spin on filter, which my manual say's only came on Cat engine coaches! I have an  ISL.

I once called the old Monaco help line and asked why my Texaco AW-46 had a red tint to it, and the guy on the phone told me "Monaco sometimes added red dye!"  

If he could have seen me, I would have flashed him the B.S card!

Edited by 96 EVO
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37 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

And then there is the 10 gallon aluminum box reservoir with a big external spin-on filter like in our Signature. 

We mere mortals are not allowed to discuss the holy grail of such devices.  We could be blinded or castrated or taken before the Supreme Judge.....The Viper of Pratt.

Seriously 10 Gallons.  And I thought the Nelson 5 gallon was overkill.....  Oh Well....  Now I know....

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Yes, came with TRW and AW46, even on the sticker. Not sure why it isn't recommended but the TRW already lasted 180K+. Same for both fan motors.

The filter pressure never moved into a high pressure area and when I changed the fluid, it looked just like the new one.

Would like to know why not use it other than the ambient temperature.

Edited by Ivan K
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Well, here you go, my real life experience. I have no doubt that transynd is superior in some unknown to me ways in this application (other than the viscosity with temp) but I let it go through an other cycle. Myself, I would be more concerned with the fan motors than a steering box.. I stop here as not to jinx it.

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11 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, with 180k without a hyd issue, I wouldn't change a thing.

Like I said earlier in this thread, my manual said my coach came with AW-46. When I found it was red, I dug a little deeper into it.

Hydraulics are interesting.  I am NOT a lubrication engineer.  But, I have had the responsibility for Maintenance and PM for several banks.....and that was at two large plants.  If you changed the internal (assuming Nelson) filters and also the Pressure (Zinga?) filters on a reasonable basis....say 50K or so, then everything should be cool.  I had to do mine for the extended warranty as the "Manual" says so. 

The Monaco Manual is written based on us driving it like it was an OTR rig and they copied the TRW (or maybe Shepherd) recommendations.  NO ONE changes the filters SEMI-Annually...  This is directly from the Camelot's Manual.  NOW....not that Monaco NEVER updated the manual.  Mine called for Texaco AW46.  It ALSO said that I have 35 or so QUARTS in my system.  Monaco dropped the LARGER Nelson and put the cheaper, smaller one in mine.  So much for reading the manual.

5a Hydraulic Reservoir/Filter >> Maintain level/Replace  >> Before each trip/15,000 miles or 6 months HF
5b Hydraulic Filter Replace>> Monitor Gauge -

Bottom line, based on my experience, I personally, if I had AW46, be replacing both filters every 50K or so and draining the reservoir and putting in new fluid.  The fan motors and the controller (the Electronic One) are critical.  MY experience is that if you do NOT filter hydraulic fluid, it will eventually collect moisture and contaminants.  The pumps and motors don't care.  BUT, any precision valving or controls will start to be damaged or show wear.  My machines were molding presses (Zn, Al and Plastics).  We have all sorts of controls for the various cycling and cylinders and such.  We had the cheap filters on each machine.  We changed them.  But, I also had a central pump and filtration system (on a big cart) that we ran 24X7 and rotated it from machine to machine (probably weekly).  That cut down on our maintenance and downtime.

The TRW rep told me that Allison had spent Millions developing Transynd.  Therefore, TRW just "Adopted" Transynd as their standard for Extended Warranty components.  They had hired a bunch of Allison Engineers so they just "changed" their lubrication and warranty policies.  If you find older TRW books, you can find the AW46 and standard ATF.  BUT, if you look at the NEWER books and spec sheets, they specific Transynd or the TS 295 Equivalent.  

As I said.... I have done mine TWICE.  I ain't gonna mess with it again.  

Just my thoughts.  I don't know success.  BUT, thinks happen.  I never had a problem with my Door Step....and not a HINT of any malfunction.  But it quit working on the last trip and the gear housing was stripped.  SO, I fixed it.  Keeping the hydraulic fluid filtered and replenished would be my priority.  And swapping.....that would be the last resort unless I intended to camp in sub zero weather.

But, adding Transynd to mine and doing the filter changes, myself, makes me feel more confident....and I don't want to have radiator or coolant heat exchanger issues.....much less the fan controller going out...

 

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Agree, peace of mind is a great thing, knowing that we have done what we can to keep the machine going and in shape. When the time comes and if I find a deal on transynd or equivalent, that would be the time for me to consider the 10 gallon switch. Not just the expense but sometimes I am just hesitant to change things that work. Kind of like synthetic oil finding leaks that conventional oil did not know about type of things. Oil seals getting used to different, maybe better additives etc. In time, they will come with even newer and more expensive recommendations, no doubt in my mind. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with progress.

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14 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Agree, peace of mind is a great thing, knowing that we have done what we can to keep the machine going and in shape. When the time comes and if I find a deal on transynd or equivalent, that would be the time for me to consider the 10 gallon switch. Not just the expense but sometimes I am just hesitant to change things that work. Kind of like synthetic oil finding leaks that conventional oil did not know about type of things. Oil seals getting used to different, maybe better additives etc. In time, they will come with even newer and more expensive recommendations, no doubt in my mind. There's nothing wrong with keeping up with progress.

If you have the AW46 and have changed or will change the filters....and also drain the reservoir....then TOM would NOT switch to Transynd.  No sense in tempting fate.  You can (or should) buy 5 gallons from any agrigultural or NAPA or whatever supplier.  I think that I paid $50 for the 5 gallon pail.  SO, maybe $100 or so.  Change (drain and replace) it when you feel like it and drive on.

Mixing, without a complete drain (you gotta crack hoses everywhere) is not recommended.  It WILL work....but you do NOT mix fluids.  YES, I know farmers do that all the time.  BUT, that is on more robust systems (in the old days) and you had manual valves and controls and not the fancy high tech or precision machined ones.

Don't knock success.....just an opinion.....

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Yes, exactly what I have been doing. The external filter is at the lowest point in the rear plumbing so the tank has to be pumped out first. It gives me few days of heat in the shop going through an oil burner, so it does not go to total waste. Then I drop the filter into a bucket and get an other maybe couple of gallons from it and the lines. I heard someone just dropped the filter without thinking and made a huge mess...

For someone with the same system, the filter may come with a couple of different seals and you have to pick the correct one to match the housing.

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