Aqua-Hot

[Dale Foerster]

Is it just me or does anyone else the problem that the aqua hot doesn't keep up with the cold weather, I am currently in Myrtle Beach and the nights are quite cold.  I am running the aqua hot 110 electric at night and the coach doesn't stay warm overnight.  mind you it is about 30 degrees at night, just wondering if this is normal that the 110 can't keep up with the cold, when I get up I turn on the diesel and warm up the coach, after about 1/2 hour or so the coach is warm and i turn off the diesel.

 

Dale & Debra Foerster

2007 Monaco Dynasty Queen 43

[JohnC3]

my aquahot 450DE Would heat fine on Diesel down to 19 (coldest I have stayed) and I believe the diesel heater was rated at 60K BTU, but the electric was just a 1500w element and was only good for hot water or maybe >50 degree nights. 

Most effective item I got to use when I didn't want to use diesel mode on the AquaHot was an Electric blanket. My wife likes to be warm but the be in a cooler room.

 

[Land Lubber]

I find that using just the electric side of my AH 450 DE is good down to maybe 48 - 50 degrees. I believe that the 600 series has dual heating elements that work much better solely using electric only.

[Ivan K]

It's well known that electric only can't always keep up with the cold, especially with a single element. I just have both electric and diesel on in such situation so it does what it needs to do to stay warm.

[Doug and Nicki]

We have the 600D with two electric elements. They do fine into the high 20’s but we use the diesel burner below that. 

[DavidL]

These are the issues that these deluxe coaches with their multiple HVAC sources that are not integrated well together.

There are Modes of operation...ie: Driving, parked, parked and plugged in.

The various systems should be smart enough to know the mode, and know the ambient temp and know what you want to do (I want it 70 degrees inside, I want to take a shower....).  The control system should then tell the subsystem what to do so that the end user doesn't need to be experienced to do this math in their head, to understand the technical complexities of the issue and to administer the right commands on time.

I don't think that exists today.  My company has all the tools to easily develop this.  Is there a market for it?

[det944]

My 2006 Dynasty has a single electric heating element.  I turn on both the electric and diesel switches for cold ops. If the demand is too high for the electric to keep up, the diesel burner  will kick on satisfying the demand for heat. 

[Pduggs]

8 minutes ago, DavidL said:

These are the issues that these deluxe coaches with their multiple HVAC sources that are not integrated well together.

There are Modes of operation...ie: Driving, parked, parked and plugged in.

The various systems should be smart enough to know the mode, and know the ambient temp and know what you want to do (I want it 70 degrees inside, I want to take a shower....).  The control system should then tell the subsystem what to do so that the end user doesn't need to be experienced to do this math in their head, to understand the technical complexities of the issue and to administer the right commands on time.

I don't think that exists today.  My company has all the tools to easily develop this.  Is there a market for it?

I’d bet there is a market for that, at least in high end coaches. 
 

In very cold weather (below 25), my 600D with two electric burners can have trouble keeping the coach comfortable. I just turn on the diesel burner and all is good. 
 

The negative when running the dual electric, is it uses a great deal of power. In parks charging for electric usage, it can be costly. 
 

We have three new Heat Pumps. I’ll use them if above 40 degrees, as they seem far more energy efficient. 

[vito.a]

The single 120v Aqua Hot heating element is not meant to heat your coach.  It's only for a little hot water.  If you want to heat the coach, use the three heat pumps.  If the temperature drops below 40 degrees, use the Aqua Hot diesel burner.  

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, Dale Foerster said:

Is it just me or does anyone else the problem that the aqua hot doesn't keep up with the cold weather, I am currently in Myrtle Beach and the nights are quite cold.  I am running the aqua hot 110 electric at night and the coach doesn't stay warm overnight.  mind you it is about 30 degrees at night, just wondering if this is normal that the 110 can't keep up with the cold, when I get up I turn on the diesel and warm up the coach, after about 1/2 hour or so the coach is warm and i turn off the diesel.

 

Dale & Debra Foerster

2007 Monaco Dynasty Queen 43

You don't say which AH model you have, and whether it has a single or pair of electric elements?

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, vito.a said:

The single 120v Aqua Hot heating element is not meant to heat your coach.  It's only for a little hot water.  If you want to heat the coach, use the three heat pumps.  If the temperature drops below 40 degrees, use the Aqua Hot diesel burner.  

FROM WHAT I KNOW...  and looking at a few Prevosts...  Our Monaco's are a bit different.  The Prevosts have a central system, or the ones I saw and the owner commented on.  It is like the FLOOR system (Coleman) used on the Winnebago's.  There is a AC and HP and also a propane fired "heat exchanger".  

The Prevosts have a 20 to 25 K Genny.  SO, that Genny runs all the time.  Engine can be ON or OFF.  Think of a Central Home System.  Don't know if it is "zoned".  A Tour Bus, is not, I think, ZONED.  Will have to ask someone about zoning on a custom bus conversion.

Vito is correct.  I use the Heat Pumps for heat, until it is too cold and they run, almost constantly, all night long. I then switch to Aquahot and leave BOTH Diesel and Electric on.  This is in a CG where we pay a little extra for 50 A vs 30 A but are not "site meter" billed.

In the newer AH, there is only ONE temp sensor for the boiler fluid.  The older ones had a 5 degF (Memory) higher Diesel ON thermostat....so you depended on the Electric and the Diesel was a supplement.  NOW one sensor...so if you turn BOTH ON....they come on simultaneously the the Diesel overpowers...but still, like a Timex watch is a TICKIN', the Electric stays on....presumably less...as the diesel will "pump in say 10 times" more BTU's  I used to know the ratio...but it is BIG.  So the Diesel dominates.

I just EDITED THIS.  Ben and I have the same, I THINK, 450 -DE/DM.  My "brain" said ONE Electric and that was confirmed by Googling.

The BTUS tell the tale.  The 1650 Watts (input) of the electric calculates to 5,627 BTUs.  The plate data for the Diesel Burner is 56,000 BTU's.  SO, close enough to my ORIGINAL 10:1 ratio.  Hope this explains it a bit more and WHY my GD would scream when the shower water (after 3 adults and her brother showering) really cooled off.... TURN ON THE DIESEL.  That was from a 9 YO....  She learned quickly.  LOL...

 

[DavidL]

Hey Tom,

You bring up lots of expertise and experience in this post (like most all of yours).  The REAL issue is - why is this stuff so difficult.  I can't believe someone would pay this much $$$$ and have to get a PhD on how to use it.  I treat RVing as a hobby...and am a technologist.  So it's not that big a deal for me personally.  But the great majority of RVrs have no background and really don't want to...the industry just forces them to.

Oh, you do know that in text, caps is YELLING!. it makes your very informative posts hard to read.  You are always yelling at me 🙂

Edited January 9 by DavidL

[Jetjockey]

If you can’t heat coach with a 1500 watt radiant heater you are not going to with a 1650 watts water heater in your aquahot. Several radiant heaters would do better than several heat pumps when the efficiency of the heat pump is low . Probably use less energy also.

Edited January 9 by Jetjockey

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, DavidL said:

Hey Tom,

You bring up lots of expertise and experience in this post (like most all of yours).  The REAL issue is - why is this stuff so difficult.  I can't believe someone would pay this much $$$$ and have to get a PhD on how to use it.  I treat RVing as a hobby...and am a technologist.  So it's not that big a deal for me personally.  But the great majority of RVrs have no background and really don't want to...the industry just forces them to.

Oh, you do know that in text, caps is YELLING!. it makes your very informative posts hard to read.  You are always yelling at me 🙂

old habits are hard to break.  my corporate appropriations requests had specific guidelines to capitalize and/or italize key words or numbers.  that way the bod members would home in and scan and not have to read all the bs associated with the justification.

i do try...but fell off the wagon a bit in this one. i have really been good for the past 36 hours and lost concentration.  i promise to improve...but if not, then please be assured that no one in particular.... except the general monaco'er population,  is being targeted. there are some things that folks have said...  gee, i don't remember ever reading that which was posted 1 x e (to the nth power).  frustration sets in and then i fall back to the 19 years of writing to bod members that are ceo's of major corporations but have limited or impaired reading comprehension skills

I try...i really do....just hard to not get frustrated with some questions or perhaps the inability on my part to communicate and the caps demon posses me.

thanks for the reminder.

ps, fwiw, there were a few old time senior members and maybe a founder or two that said...  if you can't understand how something works and you don't want to learn and always want others to do the explaining, then perhaps you should take up a hobby that was less technically inclined and move on.  i believe that was when someone posted something akin to complex programming of a vcr.  it was the 3 easy steps to put in the portable brake buddy and bleed off the vacuum and plug in the power plug to run the air compressor and engage the clip on the brake pedal. the member was more than mystified and confused....  that comment was not moderated....as i read it and was not so empowered....so don't blame any sarcasm on me......  lol.

i do try to teach....always have.  overteach, probably yes, but one never knows the skills or technical background of a group....like a plant manager and some engineers and hourly folks and trying to explain how a waste water treatment system that uses metallic ion precipitation technology to drop out the heavy, toxic metals. i got an award from several of the learned engineers that said...  you nailed it when you used an example they could all understand. the act of conjugal copulation as the example and compared how the negative oh ions are attracted to the viral positive toxic metal ions and why setting the mood, as in a polyelectrolyte and keeping the ph within a certain range, was essential.  the hourly guys that never had chemistry got it (oh...i wanted to capitalize that) and the mba plant manager that never had to take chemistry also absorbed it... and the engineers were rolling in the aisles..

now, do you have a better understand of my personality....if so, please pm my dw and expalin it to her also.  lol...double lol  .

 

[LakeBob]

My 600D with the dual electric elements will heat the coach easily in temps into the teens.  My first test was on our maiden voyage, an 18 deg night on the panhandle of Florida, during the polar vortex of 2022.   I had never turned on the Aquahot furnace function at this point, a quick review of the manual and we had heat!  Kept the coach and the wet bays comfy all night. 

 I did find, recently, during cold AZ mornings (low 40's), with all three AH heat zones running and while taking multiple showers on electric only, that we would have intermittent hot water.   Flipping on the diesel burner allowed for endless hot water and heat.  This was in the morning, while heating up the coach, as we keep the temps low while sleeping.  (Love the Micro-Air thermostat-recent upgrade- so you can turn up the heat from your phone/bed!) 

Based on discussions with AH 450 owners, in colder weather, the diesel burner is needed to heat the coach in or to supply hot water during longer/multiple showers. 

Putting the AH600 to the test again tonight, on our way to San Antonio from Yuma and the low tonight will be 24....... and tomorrow night a forecast of 16.  

We are also very lucky to have the Gold Heat heated floors still working in parts of the coach, these are a blessing, and I would not own another coach without them! 

[cbr046]

21 hours ago, DavidL said:

These are the issues that these deluxe coaches with their multiple HVAC sources that are not integrated well together.

There are Modes of operation...ie: Driving, parked, parked and plugged in.

The various systems should be smart enough to know the mode, and know the ambient temp and know what you want to do (I want it 70 degrees inside, I want to take a shower....).  The control system should then tell the subsystem what to do so that the end user doesn't need to be experienced to do this math in their head, to understand the technical complexities of the issue and to administer the right commands on time.

I don't think that exists today.  My company has all the tools to easily develop this.  Is there a market for it?

Kinda reminds me of the Kongsberg chassis, and we know how that turned out.  Limited production, obsolescance, no support, no serviceability (except for Frank McElroy).  Even the current technologies (Aqua Hot, Smartwheel, Alladin . . . ) are problematic.  Imagine your dealer telling you your half million dollar coach is kaput because the integrated heating system can't be fixed.

If I'm cold I turn the heat up. 

- bob

[Dr4Film]

This topic has been brought up way too many times.

It amazes me of the number of Aqua-Hot owners who don't read their owners manual. It clearly states early in the manual, section 2 right after the initial overview section that the Diesel Burner is your PRIMARY heat source and the Electric Assist is your SECONDARY heat source.

During the winter turn BOTH switches on and leave them on. In the summer when it is warmer you may get by with just the Electric Assist depending on local conditions.

Burn some diesel and stay warm!

 

Edited January 10 by Dr4Film

[DavidL]

48 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Kinda reminds me of the Kongsberg chassis, and we know how that turned out.  Limited production, obsolescance, no support, no serviceability (except for Frank McElroy).  Even the current technologies (Aqua Hot, Smartwheel, Alladin . . . ) are problematic.  Imagine your dealer telling you your half million dollar coach is kaput because the integrated heating system can't be fixed.

If I'm cold I turn the heat up. 

- bob

Nope, nothing like Kongsberg at all.  Hardware is readily available.  Not proprietary. Inexpensive hardware.  Layers ontop of your current system so the original functionality is also available.  Could be extended to fix Kongsberg...and yes, if you want it warmer you would turn the heat up.  The issue is which heat, and when and how.

[Pduggs]

 The other thing many of us miss is regularly running the diesel burner, even when it isn’t needed. 
 

I seldom ran mine for the first few years ownership, because the dual electric burner worked fine in mild weather. When I turned it on while boon docking at Walmart on our way to Florida a couple years ago, it smoked like crazy. I thought it would clear up, but it didn’t. The smell in the coach prevented us from using it. 
The tech servicing my Aqua-Hot told me to run it through a cycle once a week year round. I’ve done that and get very little smoking. 

[DavidL]

24 minutes ago, Pduggs said:

 The other thing many of us miss is regularly running the diesel burner, even when it isn’t needed. 
 

I seldom ran mine for the first few years ownership, because the dual electric burner worked fine in mild weather. When I turned it on while boon docking at Walmart on our way to Florida a couple years ago, it smoked like crazy. I thought it would clear up, but it didn’t. The smell in the coach prevented us from using it. 
The tech servicing my Aqua-Hot told me to run it through a cycle once a week year round. I’ve done that and get very little smoking. 

And if that is a recommended maintenance strategy - why doesn't the system schedule that for you so you don't need to remember to do that?

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, DavidL said:

And if that is a recommended maintenance strategy - why doesn't the system schedule that for you so you don't need to remember to do that?

That wouldn't be good if you store your coach in a closed building.

When we're not using the coach I probably run the burner at least every 3 weeks or less. Never had a burner issue!

[DavidL]

2 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

That wouldn't be good if you store your coach in a closed building.

When we're not using the coach I probably run the burner at least every 3 weeks or less. Never had a burner issue!

That is another Mode of operation.  And you are right, in that Mode (Storage) the burner should not run due to exhaust issues.  Most people would know not to run a burner indoors.  But, with every major power outage, there are always the stories of folks dieing due to running an ICE generator indoors.

Edited January 10 by DavidL

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, Pduggs said:

 The other thing many of us miss is regularly running the diesel burner, even when it isn’t needed. 
 

I seldom ran mine for the first few years ownership, because the dual electric burner worked fine in mild weather. When I turned it on while boon docking at Walmart on our way to Florida a couple years ago, it smoked like crazy. I thought it would clear up, but it didn’t. The smell in the coach prevented us from using it. 
The tech servicing my Aqua-Hot told me to run it through a cycle once a week year round. I’ve done that and get very little smoking. 

GOOD POINT (pardon caps).  We recommend that you drive the MH every 3 months or so.  Drive it for say 25 miles or so...and turn around.

Start our with Genny Running and run the AC's.  If you have AC/HP.  Stop and go to HP mode. This activates the reversing valve...a common failure.

The 25 miles, if you watch the Tranny and Engine gauges, will be about up to the same temp.  When that happens, turn around. 

BUT!

Stop and then turn off HAVAC and turn on Furnace.  Set temps high and let the Aquahot run.  The blowers will come instantly. You may get some warmer air due to preheating the Engine loop in the boiler. Turn on both Diesel and Electric.

Drive back home. Now your Genny and Engine and Tranny and HVAC and Aquahot have been exercised.  

It is also suggested, per the Battery - 101 paper in the files...that you do a discharge (2 or 3 times) every 4 - 6 months. That exercises the Flooded and the AGM (AGM must be exercised....otherwise the will fail.  Bringing them back is almost impossible....where a Flooded will usually come back).  

That's it..... Good Luck.

[grizzly]

My 600 D aqua hot with dual elements would keep coach warm all night no issues with temps into the low 30s and high 20s. sometimes we used both elements especially in morning so we could shower and have lots hot water. Make sure on 50 amp service or could have some issues of blowing circuits. Sometimes we would use a small space heater for short periods of time or I got an eheat and put it on bedroom wall and worked great. Had them in our house in Yosemite in every bedroom and worked great and efficient

[Dr4Film]

Those who have the 600D are fortunate with the two elements, however most us us only have one electric element such as the OP, so running the diesel is mandatory in the winter weather.