Lynn Hales

I chased wires again this afternoon and believe I've found one problem. The attached photo shows one of the wire bundles behind the slats under the sink and to the right. I confirmed that the ground and 12V wire for the under cabinet florescent lights over the sink trace to the right hand connector.  On the other connector that plugs into it has a very large red wire that feeds the 12V wiring going to the light

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Problem is that the large red wire(supposedly 12v) doesn't have 12 volts on it. The adjacent pin does have 12V on it (also a red wire but not as thick). I checked the fuses again in the bedroom closet and they all were good. Anybody got any idea where this large red wire might be coming from and where another fuse might be that is attached to it? I've been looking at the wiring diagrams and didn't see anything that looked promising.

Thanks Todd. No tape in my case. I used a borescope and combed every inch of the space. I do think I've made some head way however.

Yes, first placed I looked. The switch is also dangling. Its a simple spst rocker switch that switches the 12V side of things. It traces back to one of the connectors with no mate, therefore no 12V. The Borescope didn't show me any hidden, unconnected mates. I like your analysis. The connector seems like it has to be close.  I'll keep you posted as I continue my hunt the afternoon.

Thanks for the ideas Dennis. I took a quick look in this area and thought it would be a likely spot to investigate. The cabinet you're referring to is the one with the slats on right? I did pull it off and couldn't see anything that obviously was snaking its way upwards but I'll look more closely again.  I've looked at the fuses and will do so again. I'd love to find a blown one but didn't spot one in my looking or testing. 

Thanks Todd and Tom.  I also think that these had to have worked at some point in time. That's why I was surprised that I could not find 1 live 12V anywhere near the non-functioning lights. The switch for the pucks is right next to them and it simply switches the 12V. The switch over the sink is part of the light fixture itself and also switches the 12v.  Tom, good idea to consider a 120 to 12V transformer above the microwave. I could fairly easily do that.  Not a great fan of individual battery powered lights but I could also do that.  I think I'll start to also look at how easy I can pry off a few panels. Thanks guys.

Its been three years since I bought our '06 Diplomat and I finally decided to figure out why the light over the sink and the two puck lights under the forward cabinets don't work. After borescoping everywhere I could I wasn't able to find a single 12V wire feeding any of the lights.  I did find two unconnected male molex connectors that looked like all they needed was to be connected to a 12v source and ground and then everything would work.  Any ideas where the source wiring for this side of the coach comes from. If not, how in the world would I run new source wires to this area?

On 8/1/2023 at 2:18 PM, jacwjames said:

I remember a post by Bob Nodine ~3-4 years ago, he did extensive work repairing the clear coat on his coach.  I tried to find it without success, maybe someone else can.  Bob Doesn't frequent the site much since selling his Diplomat. 

I've had to do some painting on my coach I AM NOT AN EXPERT but I'll try anything once.  In most cases I was able to terminate the painting & clear coat at a color change so it wasn't noticeable.  The only place I didn't do this the difference in clear coat was noticeable, trying to  blend the clear coat is tricky and takes a lot of practice.  I asked the staff at the paint store and the only thing they offered was a can of special clear coat that is suppose to "melt" into the old.  Didn't try that, maybe I should have.   When I get time I will probably repaint the area but not a priority right now. 

Is this the location from Bob Nodine?   

First phase of repair is now complete. Every C clamp I own and 3 new ones and a couple of 2x4's.  Turned out the panel frame was bent inwards about 4" but it all straightened out more or less ok.  Now to get all the paint off. Thanks again for the comments. 

Quote

 

Thanks Scotty and Ken, I'm off to work on straightening it now. If I end up wanting to remove it I guess I have to drill out the rivets on the top, correct? I'd guess a 1/4" bit and just deep enough to remove the top cap. 

Ken, thanks for your comments. I went out to our storage spot (105 degrees here) and it turned out that there are two brackets on the bottom that can be unscrewed and the the panel will open. Hinge is at the top. The frame was bent enough that it took some effort to get it open. At least neither of the tanks was damaged. Wish me luck in straightening the panel frame enough to get a complete seal.  We're just trying to leave for a trip to cooler climes. Thanks again.

49 minutes ago, klcdenver said:

It will have a piano hinge on the right side of the panel. On the left side it will have usually 2 screws one towards the top and bottom of the panel. You should have enough room to get a screw driver between the panels to remove the screws. Then it will swing open like your other doors. Now you can get to the screws on the piano hinge.    

Someone hit the side of our 06 Diplomat. Can this panel be unlatched at the bottom and rotated up or removed easily?  I'd guess the fresh water and black water tanks are behind the panel. Thanks for any comments. Lynn

Incredible selfless service. Thank you. Lynn

Thanks Bob, Ivan and Tom, I'm now tracing all the wires through the coach 7 way back to the tail lights. I think there may already be diodes hidden bay there but I'm going to have to work from the ground up and top down to find out. I also discovered that I don't have a charge wire for the jeep battery.  On the coach side I've got a constant 12V on one of the spades. I guess that is the one to run over to the jeep for the charge wire.

9 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Ok, your controller is much newer than mine and apparently quite differently wired but SRC typically stands for 'source', like a source of power that is switched on/off to the output. If this is the low beam relay, there still might/should be a breaker in its switched circuit 30->87.

Follow up

I just noticed your circled pin positions in 2nd pic,  I don't know which pin is for what, lower center might be your scr but they don't necessarily need to correspond to J2 pinout. However, there is a PCB trace to a breaker that is not in the picture and might possibly be what is cycling it on/off.

Regardless, I still don't understand why the jeeps lights would be wired to headlights. Mine are on marker lights circuit and that makes more sense me, so they light up in Park position. No headlights needed on the toad when hooked up.

I should have clarified my original problem statement sooner. With the coach engine on, and the jeep all connected up, the jeep turn signals and brake lights work correctly. When I then turn on the coach headlights on the brake and turn signals still work but on about a 10-15 second frequency, standing behind the jeep the jeep running lights go off and then turn back on after a second and then this continues to occur until the coach headlights are turned back off.  I guess I've been looking for the problem in the wrong place.

On 3/21/2023 at 2:26 PM, Ivan K said:

Yes, that would be my preference as it would only feed the low beams. My controller in is the front run bay but there are many model years between us.

After much digging under my dash I finally found the VIP module. SM211 Rev B.  I've also scoured my front electrical bay. Without tracing wires from the VIP to the main board in the front bay but looking at all the connectors and relays and labeled wires I'm now thinking that there is already a relay after the VIP.  I'm going to try to do some tracing to confirm my suspicions tomorrow. 

The J2 connector show #5 to be head lamp src and #6 as head lamp pwr. Do you know what src stands for?

14 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Just my opinion but since it appears that you have a smart wheel and VIP controller, I would leave the switch alone and connect the relay coil past the controller, pin P12-2. That way both the switch and controller are protected from overcurrent. Also this would preserve the CIC function the way it is. I don't see whether you say that your high beams are flashing also but suspect they already have relays on them and work alright?

Ivan, thanks for your thoughts and drawing.  Any idea where the VIP controller is? If I understand your comment correctly you are suggesting that the relay be inserted where the "low beam" writing is located.  Correct? 

On 3/20/2023 at 7:04 AM, bobdinsmore said:

You need a four-pin R87 relay, available at any auto parts store. Here's a diagram. Cut the headlight-switch wire that goes to the headlight and attach the ends of the cut wire to Pins 86 and 87. This uses a low current signal (triggers the relay) from the headlight switch to drive a high current to the headlight, ie, you're offloading the high current from the headlight switch.

Pin 30 = Battery 12v (Fuse this line)

Pin 85 = Frame ground

Pin 86 = From headlight switch

Pin 87 = To headlight bulb

Bob, I've begun to install a relay.  Turns out the wires feeding the headlight switch are labeled. They are: H) dome, C) dimmer, B) dome light, A) headlight pwr, F) marker pwr, E) marker to VIP, J) headlight to VIP.  

When the coach 12V master switch at the batteries in on 12V appears at A and F, even when the headlight switch is off.  When the light switch is off there is no 12V on J.  When I turn on the lights 12V appears at J so I'm assuming that I should cut the wire from J and attach the end coming from the switch to terminal 86 on the relay and then attach the the cut end that in marked headlight to VIP to terminal 87 of the relay.

I thought I could connect terminal 85 on the relay to H, the Dome gnd.

After this I need to find a new source of 12V that can provide enough amperage to power the coach headlights and the new load of the the towed vehicle and connect it to terminal 30. And I need to fuse this line. I was thinking of a 20A fuse.  I'm really not sure where to pick up an appropriate 12V line for terminal 30.

Does this all sound correct to you?  Lynn

20 minutes ago, bobdinsmore said:

You need a four-pin R87 relay, available at any auto parts store. Here's a diagram. Cut the headlight-switch wire that goes to the headlight and attach the ends of the cut wire to Pins 86 and 87. This uses a low current signal (triggers the relay) from the headlight switch to drive a high current to the headlight, ie, you're offloading the high current from the headlight switch.

Pin 30 = Battery 12v (Fuse this line)

Pin 85 = Frame ground

Pin 86 = From headlight switch

Pin 87 = To headlight bulb

Bob, thank you!  Clear and understandable. Now if I can just remember how to get the light switch stem to come off so I can get the body of the switch to a spot where I can work on it. Lynn 

11 hours ago, TommyL said:

Lynn ,I have the same problem.headlight switch gets cat cookin hot! These were made for 2 headlights 2 taillights, At least I hope that’s the problem, would like to know more about Bobs relay fix.

Tommy, I'll post after I make the modifications. It seems real logical to me. although I'm not 1000% sure the fellow that wired our towed car totally knew what he was doing. It's one thing to say you know how to do something and something else all together to actually know.  Lynn

3 hours ago, bobdinsmore said:

I think you're overloading the headlight switch. Years ago on my Diplomat I had this on-off -on-off- problem when I increased the headlight bulb wattage with brighter bulbs. There is a thermal in the headlight switch itself that is heating, cooling, etc. I think you'll find the stem to the headlight switch is very hot to the touch when you're having the problem. I added a relay to the headlight switch to take the heavy current load off the switch. This fixed the problem.

Thanks Bob, I'll bet you're right.  Do you have a relay type, or number. I'll need to get it sized correctly on the output side for the full current draw of the coach lights and the towed lights I guess.  Lynn

1 hour ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Do you have to disconnect a fuse to tow the Jeep?

Gary 05 AMB DST

Gary, no, no fuse to disconnect.  Just a process of getting the transfer case into neutral. Lynn

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

With so many years between ours and your coach, hard for me to tell but the breakers for my lights (20A for low and separate 20A for each high) are in front run bay.

Ivan, I'll poke around the front run bay and see if I can find anything.

1 hour ago, Harvey Babb said:

The headlight switch itself will sometimes have the breaker as an integral part of it.

I first ran across this over 40 years ago when the çlearance lights on my car shorted out from a pinched wire.

Harvey, I replaced the headlight switch itself last year and it was just the normal simple switch, no integrated breaker.

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Are the jeep lights connected to your headlight circuit somehow? Suspect the rear lights would do the same? Your headlights would typically be on an auto-resetable breaker and that's what is likely tripping under an additional load.

Thanks Ivan, When the Air Force brake system was installed so was a wiring harness on the jeep. I assume it is wired into the 7 wire umbilical that connects the coach to the jeep.  Any idea where the "resettable breaker" might be located in case I destroy it as I troubleshoot?  

I never drive at night so I hope that I'll be driving as it is currently wired as long as the coach lights are off.

After our Cadillac SRX was totaled recently I had our  Demo air force one system installed in our '21 Jeep Grand Cherokee.  The brake piston is working fine and so is the brake and turn signal lights. However, when I turn on the coach headlights on about every 15 seconds the coach lights and jeep lights briefly turn off and then immediately turn back on. This on/off continues until I turn off the coach headlights.  I'm clueless where to even begin to try to track this down. Anybody got any ideas or recommendations? Lynn

'06 Monaco Diplomat PDQ

Towed: was a 2016 Cadillac SRX, now its a '21 Jeep Grand Cherokee

My 06 Diplomat PDQ has the exhaust brake which is the most important driving aid I've got. Use it a lot out west. I'd love the 2-stage engine brake however. Lynn

John, I've got to conclude I don't have a reset switch since there was nothing down on the firewall under the steering column.

Bob when I "Power Down Aladdin" it turned off the display and the light over the joy stick went out. Moving the joy stick turned it back on. 

I'd guess I've got to say all is well. It just seems to me that when I have the blue screen on the Weldex there should be a very simple and straight forward way of getting directly back to the Aladdin displays.

Thanks to everyone. Frank your final clarifying comments make it as clear as possible to this newbie. Lynn