chris timms

Hi Tom   , all functions seem to work as they did before no glitches , took it about 30miles for MOT and passed ,

great to be back in driving seat again , only thing that has changed is the oil pressure dial is not working , presume i've knocked the sensor or wire connector 

when looking for faults, not sure how important it is to fix before i go away ,

cheers Chris

Thanks to all your information posted, engine on 2003 diplomat up and running once again , info down loaded from Cummins engineer from similar model diplomat all good  , will keep copy in case any one is in need

holiday ready ( after MOT )  Cornwall Engand 

On 7/24/2022 at 4:01 PM, Tom Cherry said:

YES and/or maybe NO.  As pointed out, any qualified Diesel shop or mobile tech dispensed from one SHOULD have a laptop or a device to read the ECM.  NOW, I am making an assumption that the CAT software will be required and that the Cummins InSight will not know “Cat” from a cutesy little furry purring creature.  LOL.

if the dealer works on CAT and CUMMINS…they MUST have both…or maybe, guessing, a third party OEM diagnostic that will read both.  I personally would want ONLY the CAT Approved and supplied (Licensed) diagnostic software.  As long as they have the CAT system, the they can run a diagnostic….copy the program electronically and put it on a flash drive or a CD for you. That is what you need IN THE MH. Optional…a hard (50+ page) printout will work as well.

So, do some research.  Frank printed out mine. I SUSPECT that to print it out, one needs the “software” with the PRINT option.  That would be easier to reprogram from….but the tech that did my buddies did it from his laptop and the diagnostic tablet or whatever interface he was using…and it was less than an hours job to go through and type in the values or “check this box” setup.

That’s my advice….

Thanks, managed to find an 2003 diplomat manufactured in the month of August of that year ,40 minutes away 

my diplomat is 2002 October manufactured so hopefully nothing changed in the ECM additional input info 

will try on Wednesday 

thanks for advice 

On 7/21/2022 at 10:47 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Update, based on going down this path in 2020 for a buddy’s 08 Navigator.  There is a feces pot full load of “parameters” in the ECM that must be MANUALLY input.  Frank McElroy just verified this and he is one of our top electronics resources and has all the diagnostic software and tinkered with mine and copied it.

The ECM can not be “flashed” or electronically programmed…Cummins and the Feds locked that up.

Your engine, per the brochure is an ISC.  Frank does not, in his files, have a printout or a copy of the program.  The tire size and axle ratio is on the 2003 Monaco Brochure that I pulled….

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133497_brc_pdf.pdf

Monaco had to input the specifics of your Tranny.  Frank read off a bunch of the line items such as tail shaft teeth and the shift point and the gear down profile and such.  He says, odds are the tech will hopefully have a boiler plate Allison tranny list or have to call Allison and chase it down.  But the TCM info as to speeds and shift points were NOT developed nor supplied by Allison,…they were a Monaco set of numbers and Monaco had a third party program the TCM a and put it in.  I can vouch for that as I tried to use my TCM serial number and get them from Allison  early on.  NOPE.  No have.  Manufacturer supplied…we and Cummins approve.

MAYBE it will drive OK, and be close.  Our best comment or advice.  

Find someone here and see if they will take in their MH to a Cummins Service location for a Diagnostic test and PRINT OUT.  They will be provided with an electronic, and hopefully, LONG, copy of the program.  THEN, the tech, with hopefully A laptop and his Insight reader, will go through the program and check and correct the parameters.  Yes….you can look up tire sizes and revs per mile.  That is the easy part.  This is exactly what Frank and I did with the tech on my Buddy’s, so,this ain’t our first rodeo.  His was perfect.  He has driven it almost 10 K with the refurbished ECM and nary a hiccup nor “gee….it didn’t USED to do that”….he is in route to Alaska as I type.  Typically , there is a one hour shop charge for the diagnostic and the owner will get all the error codes and can have them cleared and know exactly the condition of the engine.  If you pay for it, that is a real Win-Win.

Do NOT know if any of the other members that have the Insight software have downloaded and kept one specifically for the 2003 Dip ISC.  The other option, buy a used one.  BUT, it MUST specifically come from a 2003 DIP…and verify that it had the ISC (only one listed) and that the ECM can be READ and Programmed and will work….with some type of guarantee.  As to the calibration, Cummins has that info, I believe, in their files, so the tech will get one, new or refurbished, that will work.  The missing info is all the Monaco supplied and inputted parameters.

Thats the gist of it.  Frank was tied up on a home repair so I called to verify and make sure that my generic post was correct. Good luck….

 

 

Thanks very much for the useful information , i'm understanding things clearer , it looks like i'm in need of obtaining the monaco diplomat inputted additional parameters from another 2003 owner , can you advise on how i should  find /ask this request  to get the best positive  outcome back in the shortest time possible

many thanks Chris (Bromsgrove England)

18 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Not Ivan, but will add this.

First, yes....you need a copy of a 2003 Diplomat ECM program....either a printout or a PDF or whatever electronic copy that has been downloaded from the ECM for their coach. That might seem daunting, but in reality, you need to establish a relationship with another owner that will assist you. The procedure to get a copy is simple. Take the MH in for a Cummins Diagnostics Check. They will download the program....and have or keep a copy on file. Most Cummins dealers will copy that to a thumb drive for the owner. Then Cummins will advise the owner of any issues. There is usually a one time shop labor hour for this. You can PAY for that.  The owner will get a copy and you will have one.  It is a WIN-WIN. You never can tell....someone may have one and NOT seen this thread.

Second.... If you find a REPUTABLE Salvage yard that has a WORKING, FOR SALE, ECM WITH A GUARANTEE, then that MIGHT be a good place.  Again, deal with reputable shops.

Third....You can purchase a Refurbished (best value) ECM from Cummins....have it installed. The engine will run and the "BUSS" system should read all the correct info. The Tech can then do what he can and add in the Rear Axle and the tire sizes. The original ECM was programmed with Goodyear Tire data. Any brand of the same size tire will have a spec sheet on their website. All you need is the REVOLUTIONS per MILE for your tire size...brand is NOT that picky. If you had the original GY's I think that I have an old file on them, and could possibly look that up.

That leaves the "Transmission" info. NOW MAYBE this will work. Get your Transmission SN. Call Allison. The one piece of info that seemed to be, when I talked to Frank, POTENTIALLY the most critical and your ECM may NEVER have had it in there....or it might have...we have NO WAY TO VERIFY...find out the tail shaft teeth count.

The REST of the Transmission info deals with the shift patterns and the downshift. A GOOD Allison service shop and/or a good Cummins shop should be able to help you. Frank said that he THOUGHT....again this was our discussion...that a Cummins Tech might have a boiler plate profile for the Allison.

Call Allison and ask them.  

That is about it.....  Ivan and Brett or Frank will have to chime in to embellish or correct the above, but that is my understanding.

This may be a lot of worry over nothing....and if the Cummins Tech says...Hey, no problem, then you go with that. 

Wish it was more cut and dry, but it isn't

You MIGHT put out a HELP in the General Discussion and ask for a 2003 Diplomat Owner to contact you via the PM....keep it simple...

Now, it is a crap shoot to find any better Monaco INFO out there than here. Not puffing up our site, but the IRV2 or other  sites that get into the ECM'[s and have electrical knowledge are few and far between. I tried for a month to chase down info on relay locations and folks had posted glowing reports of how they found and fixed them. One member in our database is listed...but he does not respond to emails nor the IRV2 PM system.

That's about the size of it....

Thanks Tom , you have been more than helpful ,much appreciated 

Chris 

18 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Unless the coach was serviced by cummins in the past and a tech cared to save the image to their corporate storage, I doubt they have yours from Monaco. We have been through this before. Anyone can get the calibration file and make the engine work but an image needs to be converted to template and sent to the ECM on top of the calibration to make the custom settings work. This is why it is a good practice to have one saved. Some parameters are obvious, many are not, at least to me. Good thing is that you likely have no fancy multiplex system to make it even harder. They will get you running with the calibration and if they can still read the custom  info directly from eprom, even better. I think thats what you are talking about. Fingers crossed.

thanks Ivan ,

i'm understanding now that there is little chance of getting the information i need unless i can get any help from a 2003 Diplomat owner who already has the saved file that they wouldn't mind sharing with me . are there any other forums that might be worth asking that question ?

58 minutes ago, Grampy OG said:

Where the heck is the plate with the ECM numbers and where is the ECM approximately located? 

This sounds to me like one opportunity that I would like to get on top of before a problem arises. It never ceases to amaze me what we do to keep these old birds on the road. This whole subject has never even crossed my mind but something as important as this is not an item I will backburner waiting for the problem to find my solutions.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago (way less serious) just trying to replace my oil dipstick. NO Monaco - Cummins shaking their heads and saying NOT OUR PART. What the heck I thought back then. You manufacture an engine but did not put a dip stick in? Sheez

Ken

 

Hi Ken , there is a metal plate with the numbers on that is glued onto the ECM located on the right side of the engine looking from the rear , its behind the filter with connector wires going into the unit , bit of a bugger to get to , information of engine number also on the cam belt housing ,

metal plate again although mine was mostly unreadable due to corrosion  , 

chris 

Also i should of sent the ECM of to GEOCM i'm sure i would of had a better out come than the two locations here in the uk , its now at a place that says they can retrieve /copy the information in hexidecimal format not sure what use that is if we are unable to view the input information to then relay it manually to the RX ECM from cummins,  who are coming out Wednesday to fit and trouble shoot currently only the engine calibration information available and not the other stuff 

i guess i really do need the print out from a 2003 Diplomat if cummins haven't got the full information in their data base

14 hours ago, Brett63 said:

Oh I would like to think we are much better than Congress...lol Have a great evening fellow Monacoer

 

Thanks for all of the insight ,

am i taking it that the specifics parameters and features have been updated to cummins after the coach was built and cummins hold that information as well as the calibration 29538022 for the ECM 3944125 

as here in the Uk cummins haven't asked for the VIN number just the engine number , which wouldn't connect to the correct information to the vehicle and i guess would only give the details of the engine and not the other stuff i need , am i missing anything ?  

it appears that  cummins operate different in the USA to the UK , should i be in contact with Cummins US

Thanks Ivan, when i say( axles and tyre size) parameters , im not sure what other features / parameters are needed that Monaco would of added for the chassis size  onto the ECM after the engine was installed , Monaco forwarded me the only details they had for the ECU #   00193    Cal #29538022

ill try cummins tomorrow to see if that number is any use 

Cheers

2 hours ago, Brett63 said:

Chris, contact a company called GOECM (absolutely best price I could find) and give them you ESN# and VIN#. Your ESN can be found on your engine data plate. You don't have to buy from the company I referenced but regardless of where you purchas your ECM you will absolutely have to have these two numbers.

BTW, I just had to order a new ECM 2 days ago for mine, so I am 100% sure of what I speak.

As a reference, this is my data plate(partial) the top number is your ESN. in this case mine is 79294199

cheers , will try them thanks, for the feed back

2 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Chris, if all they need is tires and axle ratio, it should be very easy. The axle gear is (should be) listed on your parts list somewhere in the coach or worst case on the axle plate. Mine is 4.33 for instance. The tire rotations per mile you can find in your tire manufacturers table for your specific drive axle tires. Just in case no one has the info handy...

Hi , we have got to replace our ECM on our MONACO  DIPLOMAT  we are in need of chassis parameters for the additional info input on the ECM 

Monaco REV have said they no longer hold that information , so we are really hoping that there maybe some one with the info  for the ECM of a Monaco Diplomat 2003 (2002)manufactured that might help us out or point us in the right direction , we will have cummins put the engine parameters on the new unit but need the other information relating to (tyres axles) that would have been put on once the coach had been built  , we are hoping to get it sorted for the childrens holidays , would appreciate any guidance

Chris & Michelle