John C

1 hour ago, Paul J A said:

 Before you have an opportunity to weigh the coach I would use the following inflation in the tires;

Steer-- 105PSI   Drive--  95PSI, and Tag--85PSI  And set the DOWN pressure on the tag axle at 46-48 PSI.  Odd no one has mentioned that. Very important for proper weight distribution . 

Then. when you can;

WEIGH YOUR COACH. Four , or Six corner weight is the best, but single axle weights will be OK too. Fuel and water full. Black and grey tanks empty with your stuff on board. CAT scales at many truck stops. Tell the clerk you want to weigh a coach. There is an intercom at the scale so you can communicate with the clerk. There will be 3 platforms for3 axles. Steer axle on the  first, Drive on the second, and if applicable, Tag on the third. Keep the ****ENGINE Running****, so you stay at Ride Height. Get the print out from the clerk. IF you have a tag axle, you may have to adjust your DOWN pressure to move weight as needed, and after adjusting your down pressure on the tag, REWEIGH the coach.  Now go to YOUR tire Mfg. inflation charts for the correct COLD inflation.

Could you please elaborate on " set the DOWN pressure on the tag axle at 46-48 PSI. " no sure I understand that.

Thx

I am changing all my 8 tires to Toyo M144.

Ordered the tires from tire store, they will install those tires for me. When I told them Monaco Tire Chart (see attached) they just blew it off , they told me that it is 2024 and the rules and tires are changed, they told me for the front I should have at lease 120 psi ,driver and tag at lease 105 psi. they also said the low tire pressure 80 is bad for the tire.

Their only business they do is tire for big semi truck and I hope they know what they are talking. Does what they told me make any sense?

I understand that I need to weight my coach first and depends on the weight of each axle, I use the chart for the tire pressure.

1) my Tag Axls, the max GAWR is 10k, on each tire is 5k, looking at the chart, for single tire for 5,200 lbs is 70 psi.

2) for driver axle, the Max GAWR is 20k lbs, each side is 10k lbs, with two tires on each side, it is 5k each tire , looking at Toyo chart, 5k weight the psi should be 85 psi

3) for front axle, the Max GAWR is 15k lbs, each side is 7.5k lbs, looking at Toyo chart, 5k weight the psi should be 120 psi 

This  is pretty much inline with Monaco Stick on my coach except the Tag alxe, the 70 psi (that is even with MAX GAWR) seems to be really low for me if I following Toyo's chart.

Also this is the MAX GAWR, I am not full-timer, giving the Dynasty have ccc of 8,000lbs(maybe more??), I doubt I would carry more than 3K weight with me (include passenger & driver)

so my GAWR(s) will be much lighter than the MAX rating. does that means my tire pressure should be even lower?

I am going to get the tire install first, of course I don't have anything loaded, what psi should I have on each tire at a starting point (can't weight right now ,need to get Non-commercial B driver license first to go to weight station)

Please advise.

Thank you!

26 minutes ago, Cubflyer said:

I doubt the shock is wrong, most (all) shocks that have sleeves and bolts style mounts on both ends, they are the same size.  I think some hack that installed your old shocks found the mount holes elongated and their solution was to open the holes up and knock the sleeves out of the shock rubber bushing and use larger diameter bolts….  Bushing the oversized holes down to the correct size should be easy, hardware stores carry bushings or tubing that can be cut down to be used.  A pair of shouldered bushing and slightly longer bolts should do the trick.

Ken

I have found that open end wrenches work really good as a measuring device (go-no-go kind of measure).   Example: 1/2” open end wrench on a 1/2” bolt shank…

Ken

That is definitely possible, I did check the holes, it doesn't look like it has been enlarged but you never know for sure.

One person with 2007 Beaver Patriot Thunder on Facebook had the same issue, he replied my post:

"I h

"had the same issue. Did by the shocks from Shock Warehouse. Ultimately had the bushing drilled out at a machine shop, works fine now."

I looked at the new bolt & old bolt again, it doesn't look like the old bolt is 25% large than the new one, so I definitely measure it up with digital caliper, if the diameter difference is not that much, adding bushing maybe a good idea, then challenge is to find the steel bushing that will bridge the difference between the old bolt & new bolt

I already replaced 4 new shocks with 4 old shocks, was planning to do the rest tomorrow, maybe i should put that on hold now...

16 minutes ago, vito.a said:

I've changed the shocks on several of these coaches and in light of this discussion thought it may help to post the procedures.   

Procedures for changing the rear drive axle shocks on an "S Series" chassis.  

It helps to first start the engine and raise the chassis all the way up on the air suspension.  

Installing Bilstein shock part number 24-187312 on the drive axle. 

There are four shocks on the rear drive axle, two in front and two on the rear of the axle (plus two more on the tag axle).  

The rear drive axle and the tag axle shocks only about 4" apart.
Half the work installing them is crawling underneath only to find out you need a different socket or wrench. For these two shocks you need to raise the chassis all the way up on the air bags and place jack stands under the rear frame rail next to the engine mount.
The top mounting studs are easy to unbolt. Use a 3/4" socket and a long (10-12") extension with a ratchet and you can unbolt the top nut from the outside standing there. Then just pull the shock off the stud.

For the bottom bolt you will have to crawl underneath. You need a 7/8" wrench for the lock nut (not enough room for a ratchet & socket) and a 13/16" socket and long handle ratchet. These bolts are TIGHT! It would help to have a short pipe to place over the 7/8" wrench. Then tap the bolt out and remove the shock. The bottom mount is very close to the tag axle shock, but you can work the shock out.

Then from outside install the new shock onto the top mounting stud and let the bottom hang loose near the bottom mount. Then install and tighten the 3/4" nut. The new shocks have a steel sleeve inside the rubber bushing both top and bottom. The original OEM Bilstein shocks do not have a steel sleeve on the top, so the nut was slightly loose and only tightening against the rubber. On mine the rubber on one shock was distorted and the shock was completely worn out.

Now you need to get back underneath and lift the bottom of the shock up above the bottom mount and guide it in between the mount plates. It fits very tight in between the mount plates. Let the shock gas pressure preload push the shock down until the bolt is aligned. I used a large tapered punch to insert into the mount hole and pry the shock eye into alignment with the hole. Then tap the bolt in, nut towards the inside and install the 7/8" lock nut. I also like to coat the bolt and nut with anti-seize.

Hope this helps!

Think about this.  IF the mounting bolt was 15/16" diameter, the bolt head would take a huge 1 1/2" socket, not the 3/4" socket and wrench that actually fits.    

May not be exact 15/16" but should not be off by that much, I just ordered a digital caliper and will check with that tomorrow.

I was put to wood on each side then checked the distance.

Just got the bolt circumference by using a wire and wrapping around the old bolt, it is 2 7/8"

2 7/8 divide by 3.14 = diameter, it is 0.916, that is the diameter.

4 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

This is a mystery and we all are trying to help...and we each, maybe, understand it a bit differently, as as Vito says, we need some REAL photos of how things were measured.

My only comment is that...  welding or working on a shock bracket and refabricating it is a skill that MANY welders do NOT have...and the working area, even with the wheels removed, might be tight...plus I worry (probably needlessly) about welders and MH and the potential for shorts or spikes.

SO, I would add that IF the "refabricate" route is taken, then drive to Oregon (Hendersons) or Florida (Josams) and have THEM DO IT.  YES, there are probably many well qualified shops elsewhere...BUT, we have had issues when folks had "Thingies" fixed.  We ALSO have many members that are well qualified and have the tools and fabrication equipment to do exactly as you say...  BUT, when a non qualified shop has done repairs...like "Hey, I KNOW how to straighten up that crooked rear axle", the results have been LESS than pleasant.  One member trusted the shop to "lay down beads", which is the common fix...but the differential got way to hot.  He had seals and issues later on and had to have the rear end rebuilt.  SO....JUST a warning....and also from reading most every post over the past 15 years.

I have NO IDEA, what the fix will be...but, like the bulk.  The BUSHING in the NEW shock should be the SAME, within a few thousands...not SIXTEENTHS the same ID as the Bolt's OD.  IF some PO owner did some crazy stuff....FINE.  BUT, the BOLTS (the old ones) that came OUT SHOULD BE THE SAME Diameter as the holes in the mounts.  THEN...if those Bolts will NOT FIT into the NEW SHOCK....then the shock has the WRONG hardware and is NOT MADE FOR THE MH...

THIS IS VERY CRITICAL...and must, from a safety and ride comfort...be PROPERLY installed.  NOW...I KNOW from another member's experience...and testing...  YOU CAN DRIVE the MH without shocks.  BUT, for the suspension to function as designed and for the shocks to WORK AS DESIGNED...the holes in the Mount MUST be the same DIAMETER as the BOLTS...and the BOLTS must fit snugly in the NEW shocks...with the FACTORY BUSHINGS.  IF that don't work...then FIND THE CORRECT SHOCK...and Source seems to have that...based on another post...  Maybe Koni does... Don't KNOW, but the PN's received and the hardware, appear to be totally imcompatible...and that is a MAJOR ISSUE....

That's as SIMPLE as I can, for my own understanding, say it...

Thanks for your input....

Good point.

I am removing 9 new shocks and putting all old shock back. Wasted 2 days and $100.00 for the new bolts.  for one of the broken shock I have no choice but use the new shock.

VERY FRUSTRATED!!!

You don't know what you don't know!

Because one of the old shocks broke, so I figured that I may as well replacing all of them, now I opened a whole new can of worms

46 minutes ago, Cubflyer said:

My feelings on this....

Bilstein's answers should have been:   Make sure you have the right p/n shock, (you seem to)....

The old bolt should fit (but in this case, I suspect an issue.., more later,..)....

I agree that you should not be removing the sleeve, I suspect someone did that to your old (removed shocks).

Questions:   Is the hole size at both ends of the new shocks the same?  Is the hole/bolt size the old shock where there is a steel sleeve the same size as the new shock bolts/holes?..... If so, there is no worry about bolt size carrying the load.... 

If it was mine, I would use bolts that fit the shock sleeve, if there are larger holes in the mounts on the motor home I would repair (down size with bushings or welding new plates with the correct size holes)  I would not suggest just trying to tightening the bolts expecting them to not start sliding/banging around.  

Hope this helps.

Ken

Yes, hole size at both ends of the new shocks the same, because the old shock doesn't have steel sleeve, the hole is much bigger, that is why it fit the old big bolt.

Never done welding before and no sure I can do it.

My guess is this is the wrong shock for my coach.

48 minutes ago, vito.a said:

I used Bilstein shock part number 24-187312 on the rear.  The upper shock eye is 18.1mm ID without the steel sleeve. With the sleeve installed the ID is about .510".  A 1/2" diameter bolt fits through very nicely.  

The originally installed Bilstein shocks did not have the steel bushing and the rubber inserts pounded out.  All of the new designed Bilstein comfort control shocks have a steel bushing inside the upper rubber grommet. The nitrogen preload is also not as high as the originals. I can compress a new Bilstein shock with aprox 30# of pressure and when released, it extends slowly. This is just enough to prevent gas bubbles.

What is the outside diameter of your shock mount bolts? 

What is the inside diameter of your new shocks with the steel sleeve installed?

A thought: How do you know the mount bolts are are original and even if they are how do you know if they were the correct ones?

I would not put a lot of confidence in the phone advice you received from Bilstein.  Phone support is the luck of the draw and chances are he/she has never seen a Monaco coach.  

Good luck!

outside diameter of my old mount bolts is about 15/16

inside diameter of my new shocks with the steel sleeve installed is about 3/4, that is my new bolt size

The different between the new bolt & old bolt is 25% which is very significant.

No I don't known if the old bolt is original or not, but it will be quite a effort to enlarge the hole on the chassis  that much and I checked the holes on the chassis, it doesn't look has been modified.

The reason I believe the tech is it is kind of make sense, all bolt size on the coach must have been calculated by engineer, it is OK to upsize it, but to downsize it by 25% maybe OK, but maybe not OK.

How did you install your shock if the old bolt is much bigger than the new one?

Thank you

42 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I had this application chart in my files, the shocks you list are the ones showing in the guide. 

Bilstein Application chart shocks.pdf 6.26 MB · 0 downloads

Thank you! but million $ question is how do I use the old bolt on the new shock?I really hate to downsize the bolt by 25% in diameter.

Could someone here please tell me what is the shock model number for 2007 Dynasty ?
I bought Bilstein 24-187312 Shock , Yellow because a lot of people have post that is the shock for both front & rear, now I believe I may have bought the wrong shock.
The reason is following:
Bilstein 24-187312 Shock new shock is almost identical to the my old shock, but there is one difference: the old shock doesn't have steel sleeve inside the eye while the new shock has it, because the old shock doesn't have the steel sleeve, the bolt go through the eye is bigger and it can't fit the eye of the new shock, I decided me buy a new bolt to fit the new shock sleeve , now a few more people suggested me that I should use the old bolt because it fit the chassis and the smaller bolt may have problem late on.
So I called Bilstain support, here is what they told me

• I may have the wrong shock .
• I should always use the old bolt
• I should not pull the steel sleeve out of eye because that will destroy the rubber brushing, because the bushing is melt with the steel sleeve when they make it.

So if it is the right shock, which I still believe it is, it is catch 22, I can't remove the steel sleeve, but I have to use the bigger bolt, which is too big. what do I do?

Thank you!

My bad, yes, it is Eye-pin

Both fans are taken.

Thank you.

33 minutes ago, Gary Cole said:

Walter that is the method I used. Best to use solid strut rather than the perforated style for increased adhesive contact area. I would highly recommend the expensive 3M pre cleaner. I did some tests and it doubled the adhesive strength of my samples. I was able to clearly identify some roof struts from vent locations.  At those points I used 1/4" X 1/4" X 20 aluminum rivet nuts just in case. I use these on occasion so I invested in the official setting tool. If due to a faulty installation the rivet nut turns before the bolt tightens you are going to have a difficult problem to deal with.

For those who are concerned about the tape adhesive many of the 53' vans on the road use the system to attach outside panels to the trailer structure. Of course this system is better suited for those with a metal roof.

Yes, definitely solid strut.

Could you please tell me what 3M Pre Cleaner you used? where did you buy the pre cleaner & 3M Tape? there are so many fake products on Amazon I want to buy genuine 3M.

Could you please elaborate on"Walter that is the method I used", never heard this before.

Thank you.

5 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

So the new smaller bolts will rattle in their brackets and elongate the holes? I would look for bushings to fill the difference but my top eyes go on a stud welded through the frame rail.

I don't believe the bolt will elongate the hole, because it fits the hole just right, maybe 1mm gap? after I tight the bolt it shouldn't move...

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

I'm surprised your '07 coach doesn't have the pin / nut mount on top 🤔!

It does have nut mount top..

Believe or not, I just talk to Bilstein , they told that I need ask Monaco!!!!

This shock is specific for Monaco and they don't have any torque information on it!

The torque value on their website is for other shocks!

52 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Assume you mean the steel bushing inside the new one is wider that your bracket?

Call Bilstein and ask for RV Shock Tech support.  Bilstein had some errors in the literature.  If you ordered from one of online distributors, most would get the MH information and call Bilstein themselves and verify PN before they shipped.

Based on your comments on the other thread, i assumed you had a stud nut on top.  

Bilstein or the distributor is your first call.  I am hesitant to advice a shade tree fix as you may have the wrong shock.  Supposedly all the Monaco’s were the same, but I have heard of some issues when Monaco did some weird things and there was not a Bilstein that would work on that model.  Source Engineering ran into that, IIRC, and the member ended up with Koni’s…

Is there a stamped Bilstein number on your old shocks.  Monaco also did buy off shore shocks and had them custom painted to match, but the word BILSTEIN was never on them….or so I was told by an EX Monaco employee…

CONFUSED…

The bolt must be the same diameter as the old one….to fit in the mounting holes….otherwise the shock is gonna wallow around.  
Please read my post….

your description of the issue confused me….is the new steel bushing too WIDE or is the hole diameter wrong.?

I would not beat out a bushing.  Can you easily remove the new bushing?  Is the diameter the same.

Lots of questions….speaking for the staff, we recommend that you sort this out with Billstein and are concerned that a member might unknowingly advise something unsafe…and shocks are critical issues…

OUR POSITION….any advice posted here that may be incorrect for your situation must be flagged with a comment that anything done or modified during an installation that is questionable and not approved by the vendor could be a safety issue……and is to be considered as “incorrect until the manufacturer approves” and that you have acknowledged such…absolves the site of all liability….

This might be simple…but until it is clear….anything you do is at your own risk….

Thanks for understanding….
 

The old one is Bilstein.

The old one doesn't have steel sleeve so you need a large bolt.

Now the now shock does have sleeve, the old bolt just won't fit.

Just bolt thr new smaller bolts from a bolt store with exactly same material. The one with grease is the old one

36 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Interesting. My new Bilsteins came with the sleeves separate, like if they were an option to install or not. Since my old shocks had the sleeves, I pressed them in and used the new ones just like the originals. Exact fit but that's few years ago and my shocks have eyes on both ends.

Look everyone has the sleeve, no sure what is the reason why the old shocks top hole (all 10 of them) doesn't have sleeve. but the bottom hole does have sleeve!

The must be a story behind it.

Just like you buy a old house!

3 minutes ago, klcdenver said:

You have to stay with diameter bolt that fits snug to the hole in your mounting brackets. You should also have a steel bushing inside the rubber on the shock. 

OK, then new bolt!

Thank you!

On 5/12/2024 at 1:50 PM, wamcneil said:

“Lay two aluminum struct channel in parallel (10' or 20' depends on location) and with glue the channels to the roof with 3M tape (that will be much stronger than just glue the bracket), I know I will use much much more 3M tape this way and I am willing to pay for the extra tape.”

With the long sections of channel, I’d be concerned about different rates of thermal expansion between the AL and the roof fiberglass. 

Good point, then I will apply the 12" long 3M tape then leave a 2" space, then apply 12" tape, then...

I am in the middle of replacing all my shocks, just noticed the old shock doesn't have the steel piece inside the top bolt hole but the now one does.
The is no way for me to push the old bolt inside new shock top hole without removing the steel piece.
So I have two options
1. Remove the steel piece and use the old bolt and nut
2. Leave the steel piece in place, buy a new set of the bolts to fit the hole on the new shock.

What will you do?
Thank you

42 minutes ago, mello1 said:

 

John, I think you need to rethink your approach to this project.  Your desire to support your coach from the highpoints of your frame along with the locations shown in the photos is a death wish.  Truly an accident waiting to happen.

Why? it is directly support the chassis as Mike talked about on his post. Those chassis beams are almost 10 inches thick and very strong.

Also I have two 12 ton jacks right under the front axles and two 24 ton jacks right under the driver axles just in case.

29 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

Bet the desiccant filter was never changed. 

Bet a lot of things were never changed! I am surprised the original airbags last so long!

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Just a question

Do you have a small compressor that keeps the coach level while parked.  If so does it have any type of air water separator or way to condition the air.  Does it have a way to drain water?? 

I think that the front main tank has a wet and dry side that has a check valve internally.  Not sure how a small compressor ties into the air system.

 

It has been parked at my house for the last 4 months since I bought in AZ, there is a the auxiliary tank in the back on P.S side, no sure if it is also responsible for the front, the fuse was bad when I checked, after I replaced the fuse it only ran a few times. but not very long, I was going to change airbags & rebuild 6 pack first , so this was put on the back burner.

48 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

The HWH Aux Air leveling Compressor has a small air dryer built into the system. However, I think the 2007 Dynasty uses the Valid Air Leveling System which I have no idea whether it came with an air dryer or not.

When I rebuild 6 packs and 4 pack, I noticed there were quite bit rust inside it too. but not as many as the two airbags. I was wondering where there are coming from at that time.

Looks like the rust is definitely in the system, no sure why the other 6 airbags don't have any rust in it?

1 hour ago, TomV48 said:

john I missed my point.       Is your system blowing off pressure through  that system after you come up to full pressure and do you blow off air from the Spit valves once in a while.   I think the book says purge water from air tanks drain valves monthly more or less depending upon humidity 

Yes, now I remember I read that on the manual a while ago, that is definitely another to do.

Thank you.

16 minutes ago, vito.a said:

Just clean any lines or fittings you're working on and service the dryer. 

That's about all you can do.  

How do you clean the airline? Maybe it take less time to just replacing it?

6 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

WOW.  Sitting here in So Cal feeling so smug that that can only happen in a wet climate.  Yikes you are here too.  Here is what my book says

"Regeneration - The mild backflow of air through the air dryer and out the purge valve that begins
immediately after the purge and lasts normally 10 to 15 seconds. This backflow of air, from the
air system and through the air dryer, removes moisture from the desiccant cartridge and
prepares the air dryer for the next compressor load cycle."

We have had the coach for over four years and I just changed ours last year.   Old maintenance records do not tell me if it had even been done.

My book says every 2 to 3 years, when compressor is changed or if there has been water in the tanks.

Two years ago I found the air/water release valves and never so much as a wisp of moisture.   I guess I have been lucky

 

 

I already bought a new air dryer.  Will replace it Thursday.

Both were on the front passenger side, losing all air in a couple of days.

I will follow the airlines tomorrow.

Thank you

1 minute ago, Ivan K said:

Wow, getting the system clean is going to be a nightmare unless the moisture came from leveling compressor and did not backfeed into the whole brake system, that would be lucky. Still painful to see though. 

Wow! I didn't realize it is that serious!

How do I explain that only two bags has this problem? does that means it rust is only in a certain area? how do I check if the brake system is rusted or not?

Thanks!

I am in the process of changing 10 airbags, noticed two airbags has rust inside, also a few airlines has rust to.

I know I need to change the air dryer, how about the airlines with rust in it? am I supposed to change that too? is anything I need to check besides that?

Please advise.

Thank you.

On 5/2/2024 at 7:43 AM, zmotorsports said:

 

Thank you.  I appreciate that.  Happy to help where and when I can.

@zmotorsports Hi,Mike,

I followed your post almost religiously and it helped me a lot to change my 10 airbags.

I made just one change as following:

I bought one pair of 24 ton jack stands (rear) and one pair of 12 ton jack (for the front), but I could not find jack stand that are long enough to directly in contact with chassis, I can stack up jack st      and 10 pieces of 2x10 but I don't feel very safe, so here is what I did, for the front I cut a pair of 6x6 as a jack stands, that turned out to be very strong, on the driver side, there is no space on the chassis that I can put 6x6 there, so I cut above 2 inches from the 6x6 , make it 4x6 on the top, on the bottom it is still 6x6.

for the rear, I use 4x8 because the limited space.

I am doing it very slow, and I am made a decision to  change the 10 shocks. now it is the 4th day, the coach is on the 4x8 and 6x6, looks very solid.

Thank you so much your post, without it I won't even know where to start! 

I am changing 10 Bilstein 24-187312 Shocks now, does anyone knows what is the torque? On Bilstein website it has the following for the top nut:
https://academy.bilsteinus.com/knowledge/what-are-the-torque-specifications-on-the-top-nut-of-my-shocks
Size of Nut Torque
M8 10 ft/lbs
M12 34 ft/lbs
M14 54 ft/lbs
M16 83 ft/lbs
I measured the diameter of shock holes, it is M16, but even 83 ft/lbs still  seems to be really low to me. also they didn't talk the bottom nut.
How did you do it?
Thank you