b_faster

@jacwjames Are your front and rear bags the same?  The bag you referenced is similar to my rears.  My fronts are double convoluted type.  W01-358-6905 | Firestone Airide Air Spring | Double Convoluted | 20 (truckspring.com)

2000 40 Windsor S Series chassis. 

My “problem children” Dynamic Duo….a Notre Dame Chemist and a “can fix anything” Plant Engineer decided to descale the main steam process boiler.  Their “buffered” acid concoction were a wee bit more potent than they calculated.  They drained the acid, after circulating in the heat exchanger” into the condensate drain.  It ate up the pipe.

I have had to put measures in place for this scenario, if 15% HCL doesn't achieve desired results 100% "Will get her done".   Carbon steel really doesn't like being treated that way.  

I spent some time in West Africa, I was impressed by the enthusiasm and ingenuity.  Unfortunately, it didn't always offset the lack of knowledge.  

PS @Tom Cherry, you are retired now.  I want one of those 400 MPG heat driven carburetors.  Surely the Big Oil NDA has expired.  😄

16 hours ago, Steven P said:

Update:  the storage unit owner had his electrician and the power company check everything out.  Other than a stuck open main breaker, nothing else has been discovered.  I mentioned that people here seem to feel it may be coming from the power company and possibly a transformer issue.  He said he'd reach back out to the power company to push them further.  All volts I checked on Wed were as expected. Thanks all!

Steve, 

                They found a "stuck open" main breaker.  Is it possible the service entrance is 3 phase?  If so, then the issues will be downstream of the power company. If you can see the entrance service, specifically if we can see the main breaker panel, typically we can tell the type of "feed" from the power company, 3 vs 1 phase.  I need to look at 3 to 1 phase options that may cause your initial findings if a main breaker issue occurs, I.E. 1 or 2 phases aren't delivered.   Your initial findings were textbook loss of neutral at the phase split.  

Doug, Thanks for sharing.  I haven't seen the high leg delta system in quite some time.  I left the plant world 30 years ago. OH boy it has been 30 years!!

The article is spot on, it is/was prevalent in office buildings in industrial and commercial facilities where a 3-phase system exists, and small split phase is required.  I understand the utilization whereas 3 phase loads systems are present and there is a need for a Single-phase split load.  I cannot for the life of me understand why a campground would utilize this system if they were starting from ground zero the opportunity to make a large mistake is always present. 

On 1/23/2024 at 7:59 PM, Tom Cherry said:

As I understood most of the “Open Neutral” examples over the years, many…maybe even a majority were issues at the pedestal or in the errors or code violations at or in the CG distribution.  Most were poorly wired 50A receptacles where the Neutral was not properly connected.  Other examples were where the receptacles were corroded or worn so that the Neutral pin hole was “reamed or worn out”.  

The other ones, and I was the victim was a bad internal crimp of the Neutral wire to the Neutral terminal in the plug.  In addition, with the spring contacts on the reels like mine,,,,where the contacts “ride” over a ring….that will also often result in an open circuit. Folks that fulltime and pull out the cord to max on the MH and leave it there for months often will pit or erode the contacts and the “HOT” ring.  Most, that frequently pull in and out and do NOT always pull to full extension rarely have issues.

YES, there could be a transformer issue….  BUT….go BACK to how most high voltage (13,000 VAC) lines are run.  You have only 3 conductors.  The ground is always an EARTH.  Look at the lines or the wires.

You only get a neutral from a step down transformer.  YES, the power company can have a bad transformer or the incoming service can be improperly run.  That is why, and Rick, our tech code guy, might chime in and correct or embellish or provide more insight….  There is NO NEUTRAL on a high voltage feed.  Pad or pole mounted transformers, near or at the Point of Service are the “origination” point for a Neutral.  Then, code says….BOND THEM SUCKERS at the POS in the FIRST panel.  Believe me….an improper ground to neutral or an undersized “bond” will hurt or scare you to death.  We had a “GE GOLD MEDALLION” house in the mid 70’s.  That was the THING….use all the juice….if was free and readily available.  Our local provider, Duke Energy….not a slouch provider, followed all the GE specs.  Put all the breakers outside….had the incoming and meter in one box….and the breakers in a side by side with an interconnect.  OPPS…the GE panel had a piece of 18 Guage galvanized sheet metal “bonding strap”.  My wife got stray voltage when she was barefooted and had her hand on the PAINTED dryer cabinet and pushed the start.  She screamed….and finally, after tearing apart a new dryer and testing every switch and control, I relented…. Got out the county building inspector and the installation contractor and a Duke Rep.  These were down to earth folks.  They measured the voltage.  There was almost 120 VAC potential from the still curing concrete in the basement to the cabinet.  I had her hold a meter lead….one side to the dryer cabinet and the other in her hand.  She screamed when it hit about 75 VAC, and to this day, will NOT hold a meter lead and help me troubleshoot.

Bottom line….when there is a weak or NO Neutral (open), the AC on line 1 will backfeed and you get upwards of 175 VAC across the “neutral” and Hot on both sides of the line.  Of THAT, I am sure….as I tested and measured and it was exactly that way.

SO….my point….an open neutral IS DANGEROUS.  And it can be on “our side” of the 50A pedestal or in the Pedestal or at the main panel or “upstream”.  Only troubleshooting can isolate it….

MODERATOR EDIT

There was a concurrent or VOLTAGE issues topic that delved into the new THREE PHASE Pedestals at some CG.  That new topic was inadvertantly merged into this one. It has been removed and merged with an ongoing one....THREE PHASE.  Sorry for the confusion.  Way TOO MANY Electrical issues and Surge Suppressors and Pedestals and such.  This one pertains to the original "potential open neutral and all "3 Phase" posts have been removed and houskeeping should be complete.

END OF EDIT

Tom, 

I don't disagree with what could be a problem with RV and power systems and how split phase power is designed.  

However, in replying to this issue, it was obvious the issue is/was the neutral line.  His measurements were on the receptacle in the storage unit, outside of his RV,  I.E. the entire facility appeared to have an issue as the RV next door was damaged due to this problem.  The neutral in this case is not carrying the return current to the center tap of the secondary of the transformer.  What is happening is that other circuits are creating a voltage imbalance.  Typically the earth ground bound you referenced is carrying this load, just poorly.   It is amazing the paths the current will find.  

When I stated the problem will be "from the transformer" that is a short form in my world for it is on the feed side of the panel.   I work in the medium voltage world, but I can fake it in low voltage distribution when I have to.  🙂 

 It is possible to have no earth bond and still have balanced secondary legs. 

A bad neutral will do what Steve was experiencing initially.  120VAC is 1/2 of a 240 VAC with a center "neutral".  When this deteriorates, disconnects, etc, the 120 VAC legs unbalance and you will see higher than normal on one side and lower than normal on the other.  Never trust a circuit that you have seen this on, until someone fixes something. It's not going to be a breaker on "residential" service.  It will be a problem from the transformer.  

I did some welding on my chassis, near the front.  Isolated the batteries/shore power.  Then put the ground clamp as close to the work area as possible.  Once the path to the ground is established, the risks of stray currents/voltages in other systems is going to be reduced. 

Be mindful of control wires, hoses, etc., as it is near impossible to be far enough away from those items.  There is a risk from both a heat and induced current, so isolation and shielding should be done carefully near the work area.   I suspect that Monaco's recommendation was "covering their bases".  

18 hours ago, Happycarz said:

Steven,

There is not much to this filter, as you can see once it is cut open.  It rests on top of valve cover toward the center. My engine is a 2006 and should look very much like yours.

 

 

Nice engine bay.  I dont often see a turbo blanket on RV engines.  

I agree with K9Exec, once he proof reads, the cheap relays are just that.  

I live by the good, fast, cheap model.  Pick any two of the 3 and the one you do not choose is what you have to be willing to live with. 

Good + Fast = Will not be Cheap.

Fast + Cheap= Will not be good.

Good + Cheap= Will not be fast (and probably will not be all that good.)

@cbr046 Did you toggle the rear "Front/Rear" Switches?   Does the problem happen with the switch in the "rear" position?  I had one of those events once and it was the rear run switch. 

Seeing as this thread went south.

16 hours ago, Georgia Mike said:

I have found the same is true for mine. The low side never seems to get up to the correct pressure for the ambient temperature. My gauges hook up right at the compressor so I would think it should be at the correct pressure. Once the high side gets to the correct pressure and the air coming out of the vents is 20 degrees colder then the air going in and the evaporator is dripping condensation I’m good.

Tommy, that is what I would expect.  At the compressor, your low side will/should be lower than expected due to the length of hose and more so if you have an expansion valve vs. an orifice.   Bjohnsonmm is planning on reading up front at the evaporator, which will read lower than expected on the high side due to the length of hose and the dryer and condensor being upstream of the port. 

I also like to creep up on it for RVs and let them equalize and check against outside temperature, as that will indicate more accurately than a running pressure reading. 

On 8/28/2023 at 1:44 PM, Bjohnsonmn said:

Thanks! I'll be hooked up right under the condenser location in the front generator bay of the RV. Thanks for the feedback!

If you are reading the high side at the evaporator, front of the coach, be careful with your high side number, you will be behind the dryer, the condenser and a lot of hose.  I suggest you sneak up on it.  

21 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Don't forget to take a close look at the bay door hinges, especially at the corners.  The beltline looked ok but the hinge screws rusted out making the doors bulge at the corners.  The elec run bay door fell off when I removed the beltline and went to open the door!

My guess is a stainless steel rivet far outweighs the cost of a steel sheet metal screw.  Monaco could have done better.  Makes me wonder about the other premium brands. 

- bob

I will take a very close look once I have that long beltline uncovered.  My doors currently indicate no hinge issues.  

See picture, on the driver's side, the beltline  starts above the window and ends at the rear bottom of the slide.  On the passenger side, it is from front passenger window top to front passenger window bottom.  

I suspect I am going to have some paint cracking on that beltline once removed.   

9 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Now, @throgmartin is the expert, but I used about 75-80 per beltline (300 SS rivets / 4 beltlines = 75 per)  Now, I may have been overzealous - I generally replaced 1 for 1 plus a few...  At each screw, a few inches over, plus I doubled up at the ends, a splice in the aluminum beltline, and a trouble spot or two, but "mathing" it:

40' / 0.5' between screws = 80 rivets per beltline. 

So my guesstimate would be (length of coach) x 2 = # of rivets for each beltline. That includes drops, losses, and shrinkage, but buy extra anyway.  You'll eventually use them. 🤣

Also, I ended up using exactly 1 tube of ProFlex per 40' beltline. Buy an extra tube of that, too.  It's handy to have around when you need it.

The most expensive part will be your time, so my point is buy a little extra so you don't run out. 😉

 

Scotty,  Thanks for confirming.  I have a 2000 Windsor, so on one side my beltline starts at the bottom and runs up the rear side and then back on the top.   My original plan was to buy 400 rivets, then I "thought" myself out of it.   I believe I am going with 400 rivets, I can "rathole" whatever inventory I dont use. 

6 hours ago, throgmartin said:

I typically send people to E-Bay. Look for the seller called Albany Fasteners. They are typically cheaper then Amazon. You will want their 304 Stainless 3/16 x 7/8ths rivets.

Typically how many rivets should someone start with?  I know I have 7 -9 screws that I can see need tending to, is this a process of purchasing 250 and just do the majority of them?  

Thanks in advance for all of the help from all of the contributors.

Darin

I received my weep hole covers and installed them.  I am like the others, it is refreshing to see young people learning the skills that will serve them in life.   

I just put my order in.  

18 hours ago, wamcneil said:

Ok. I think I found it! I believe it feeds the 'Domestic Hot' fuse panel in the front electrical bay

That makes sense. That wire going to the front needs protection.  

Depth of discharge and maintenance will dictate life of batteries.  Below is a depth of discharge vs cycles for FLA (Flooded Lead Acid).  I have repeatedly had 6+ years on FLA batteries, however I am a part timer, so if you are a full time boondocker, you can expect shorter time periods (years) as your cycle count is higher.  It is within range for full timers to only get 2 years from batteries if they repeatedly take them down to 40% DOD.  For full timers, AGMs do pay for themselves vs FLA. see the last chart with cycles vs DOD for AGMs.  There are significantly more cycles for AGMs if used in the 30-50% DOD. This with the lower maintenance will more than likely out perform FLA significantly better along with not having the associated venting issues.  You can do the economics and decide based on your loads what batteries best fit your needs.  Regardless if you are using FLA or AGM, always allow a full charge cycle, which typically will take a minimum of 4 hours for any level of > 10% DOD recharge.

State of charge is made after the load is removed and the batteries have had a "rest period" 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0PNKH1Rf9T4/TyiVh-sIMoI/AAAAAAAAAeM/_J_a5UQc3ug/s1600/Battery+State+_+Voltage+for+lead+acid+batteries.png

1 hour ago, Corkman said:

John L, the correct dowel pin size is 3/4" long and 3/16" in diameter, is that correct?

That was the size of the pins on my 2000 Windsor.  The latch appears to be the same latch pictured earlier in this thread. 

Sorry for the late reply, but I was technology  disconnected over the weekend.  It was a good weekend. 

1 hour ago, Corkman said:

Can you please provide a link to where you bought the Dowel pins from? I like that idea and that would fix mine better than I have done with the bolt

At the time 3 or so years ago, I bought them from Amazon.  I couldn't get the same product when searching today.  However I did find these:

https://www.huyett.com/products/fasteners/pins/dowel-pins/dow-187-0750

9 hours ago, CLIFF918 said:

That is exactly where I used a pop rivet to repair my latch $ .10 rivet is better than $54.95 for a new one that you have to paint!

Agreed I purchased a 50 pack of dowel pins for $10.00 no painting, latch is now tight as new and I can fix 25 more in the future.   I changed both sides, seeing as I was in that far. 

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2022 at 9:21 AM, Corkman said:

You didn't say what was broken. Perhaps you don't know yet?

I just repaired one on my 2001 Dynasty that looks exactly like yours. I removed the rivets on the inside panel/plate to gain assess, installed a small bolt on the side that the pin had fallen from. The repaired latch is a little stiff to move, but still works and I didn't have to replace it with one that was a different color.

If you chose to replace it, this is where you can buy one (I purchased a new one as a spare, in case these get hard to find later).

https://shop.findmyrvparts.com/searchresults.asp?Search=190004&Submit

 

I removed the rivets to repair my door latch also.  One of my dowels had worked its way out.  For reference they are an alloy steel dowel pin, 1/16" diameter by 1/4" in length.  

Look into your local NAPA, CARQUEST, etc.  My local guy stated he had no issues, however the big box stores are all out.