throgmartin

I forgot to mention, with the Interstate battery failures we are seeing the death of these batteries are being caused by an internal short which is most likely caused by a failed plate. The Interstates used to be a robust battery but obviously they changed something in the manufacturing process. The Duracell commercial 12 v chassis battery is very well constructed  with a much better internal construction that will handle adverse conditions such as vibration. This is why we use them exclusively.

On 8/3/2020 at 3:02 AM, amphi_sc said:

 

On 8/3/2020 at 10:00 AM, Dr4Film said:

 

Working on an update to this original post. I deleted the original so as not to cause confusion. We got some bad info from Dometic and later talked with a Dometic engineer who corrected the other employees mistake.

We are using Duracel Commercial batteries for the chassis. Their internal construction is far superior to other batteries and can handle the vibration much better then  others.

We are seeing a lot of interstate battery failures with customer coaches. No idea what they changed in their manufacturing process but many that we changed out were dead at 2 years or less. In regards to house batteries we try and steer our customers to the Duracell 6v AGM's. Bill Groves, our battery Guru has done a ton of research on batteries and that is what he is also recommending.

In regards to the Beavers, once you got into the higher end models, they maintained a few Beaver specific construction techniques that was held over from when they were a stand alone coach brand.  One huge difference is The Marquis and Thunder's slide build designs. 

The higher end Beavers slide construction was much more robust then any of the HR or Monaco models. Their slide bottom corners were properly built and encapsulated and they added a couple extra cross braces in the walls and the floor.

Also on the higher end Beavers their use of burl wood designs was amazing. They had some of the best cabinetry in the industry. For some reason, after Monaco bought Beaver they took the high end models and continued building them according to the Beaver construction designs. The lower end models were all transferred over to Monaco build design specs.  I can honestly say that if Monaco adopted the Beaver slide design I would be out of business.  I cannot remember ever selling a Guardian Plate system for a high end Beaver.

Glad you could find the unit.

If you still have the issue with the new one then the problem could by in your intellitec system.

We have 2 new Penguin II 15,000 units with heat pumps now in stock. These are for pickup only at our Brooksville, FL  location. I did not want to post these on our online store front until I gave everyone a chance here first. If interested call my director, Amy at - 352-942-2653.

Ed:

I can tell you without a doubt the Ambassador and Knights are identical. The only difference is in the front and rear caps and interior fabrics and colors.

Both - the Ambassadors and Knights shared the same exact floor plans, same engine, tranny, RR8R chassis, interior appointments, awnings, slide topper assemblies, etc.

and options.

Just as an update, I learned today that new penguin II units may not ship till September and some dealers are reporting October.  If this is true then it is going to really hurt if you lose an AC unit.

The good news is that my tech, Dustin, just did a Penguin II change out today with their latest  model on a unit with a 5 button thermostat. It appears Dometic changed their board setup this year and the units are direct change outs and the new boards will work with your old thermostat.

What I am hearing is that once the new Penguin II's ship, that initial inventory will go to fill dealer back orders. Many of the dealers have coaches waiting for these units. Once the back orders are met then I believe dealers will start stocking their shelves for direct sales to the public. Until then if your AC unit goes out then I suggest spending a couple days searching dealers around the country to see if they have a unit hidden away and sitting on a shelf.

It has taken us 2 weeks to get capacitors, reversing valves and overload switches.  There are all kinds of RV parts that are unavailble at the moment so do not be surprised if you spend a couple days chasing down a part and have to wait a couple weeks for delivery. It is absolutely crazy out there right now.

On 7/21/2020 at 3:12 PM, Paul A. said:

I don't know if you would consider this investment in your coach, but you may want to consider looking at the Girard Slide Toppers. They are expensive compared to other brands, but the performance is perfect. I would never have anything but the Girard product. 

Paul A

You are right Paul. The Girard topper assemblies are the best in the business. They are pretty much trouble free but good Lord are they expensive. The entire problem with toppers pooling is all due to the pitch of the topper. Carefree and Dometic toppers have little to no pitch. The Girard's have a steep pitch and the water runs right off the topper.

Our engineer has been working on a new part which will increase the pitch on a Carefree or Dometic assembly which will eliminate pooling. The problem we are encountering is cost. We have yet been able to get the cost down to a level that makes sense and a price that most RV'ers can afford.

I would have to crunch the numbers but I believe the cost to change out a quad slide coach to Girards is around $ 10 K ( includes labor ). For that much money most people will put up with the pooling of water. I myself would rather bring my slide in 8 inches to drain the water off rather then spend $ 10 K. 🙂

23 hours ago, wobrian@myglnc.com said:

Chris, what is the procedure to pin down the spring. Is there a hole you stick a small screwdriver into and do you pin the SOKII on left end and the SOKIII on the right end?

There will be two holes on the roller tube at each end. The holes are opposed to each other. You can use a screwdriver, cotter pin or like many technicians use a self tapping # 8 - 1 1/4 inch hex head screw which you drive in place using a drill. I myself prefer using the screw. Just make sure you pin the correct end where the spring is which is why I posted earlier about spring location. Those springs are like a garage door spring and are under a lot of tension. If you screw up and don't pin it, it will violently unload in a nano second and chances are it will break. I seen a spring violently unload once when the pin got accidently knocked out. The spring broke and part of it came out the roller tube. The guy had to buy a new spring and roller tube. This is why I use self taping screws. They put a positive lock on the spring and there is no chance of it getting knocked out. You can also rotate the roller tube without any obstructions such as the handle on a mini screw driver.

Slide topper assemblies are safe to work on as long as you pin that spring and pay attention to what you are doing. The guys who have problems are the ones  who get in a hurry, do not stop and think about the next step in the process or worse yet pin the wrong end of the roller tube where the spring isn't.

Try this place. I have seen his work before and it is phenomenal. No idea what his prices are like now but he used to be very reasonable and well under everyone else's.

He has painted several of our customers coaches and they came out amazing. Very high quality paint work. He can do all new designs and colors as well. Here is some of his work:

http://mikescustompaintinginc.com/photos.html

The first thing you should do is re-stretch the fabric against the coach rail. Simply removes the set screw on one end of the coach rail and then pull like the dickens on the other end. By doing this you pull the center of the fabric. taught  If you need more tension then do as Scotty said. 2006 was the transition year for Carefree topper assemblies so you either have the SOK II model ( one screw in the plastic end cap ) or you have the SOK III which has multiple screws on the end cap. You need to know which assembly you have. The SOK II has a hold down bolt for the spring and it will be located on the left side. The SOK III assembly has a cog wheel and a tab built into the end which holds tension on the spring. So the SOK II spring is on your left and the SOK III spring is on your right.  In either case always pin the spring before releasing removing the end cap on the SOK III or before losenning the hold down bolt on the SOK II. If you loose tension you have a 50/50 chance of breaking the spring.

Scotty did well considering he graduated from the wrong MSU. 🙂  Go Spartans.

Yep. That is the Frank I am talking about. He is the only one on this forum that I know who has the experience of setting paramaters and working with the software on a Cummins ECM.

Maybe I am missing something here but all the ECM change outs I have seen or heard of was a fairly simple process. I do not know if your shop is lost on this issue or are making it harder then it has to be. Or it could be the previous mechanic really screwed things up. Even then it should have been a simple upload of the software to get things right again.

People do not realize that the ECM is the brains of their coaches. Pac/Jake Brake operation, transmission shift points, engine fuel burn are just some of the critical parameters controlled by the ECM. This is why I have always said never let anyone screw with the parameters of an ECM unless they are experienced cummins techs. A tech who does not have the experience and starts screwing with parameters in an ECM can create headaches for you - improper shift points, higher fuel burn, etc.

I highly recommend  that once you get things set you schedule an appointment at a good Cummins facility and have them go through all the parameters and be sure nothing is messed up. There isn't a chance in hell I would drive out of there and call it good and think I am good to go. I would want confirmation by a highly skilled Cummins tech before I started sleeping good at night again. Just my humble opinion. 🙂 

This maybe a good question for Frank. He is our resident ECM guy.

I remember my son did a software update on my 330 and then changed a few parameters.  I am not a software/ecm guy but I know Cummins does come out with software updates. I have an 05 and the updates contained 3 over 4 years. He flashed the latest update.

I think what I would do if it was my coach is have them reload the ECM, get the coach running and then head to a Cummins shop and then have the parameters set by a certified Cummin's mechanic at a Cummins facility.

I believe most Cummins facilities have a National database of ECM software uploads along with year - make and model info. It would not hurt to call Cummins in Ocala, FL and ask them. I have a friend who had a new ECM installed at Cummins in Tampa after her old one died. She was in and out in a day.

As a side note, the Penguins are sold out at most dealers. Dometic was shut down for a long time and the inventory was sold out at many parts stores like PPL. For a while they didn't even answer their phones.

Actually I just checked and PPL is out of stock of the penguin II. I believe Dometic is now back up and running and shipping AC units. We just got 5 in yesterday. We do not sell them to the public but rather keep them in inventory for customer jobs. We have a Dynasty in right now that the center AC unit went out.  Another coach is coming in for 2 new ones and the other 2 are for future jobs ( probably my coach ). AC units are just some of the many parts that are in short supply due to the pandemic.

On 7/7/2020 at 2:12 PM, Steven P said:

Lol.  The grit seems a little coarse, I'll watch it.  I was thinking of rubbing a soap bar on it at times if needed. 

Spray it down with 303 Protectent every 3 or 4 months. That will help. The seals need UV protection anyways so you can kill 2 birds with one stone.

Should work OK Steve. I would order one first to see how aggressive the grit is. You can always go back and order more.

If it doesn't work I will come up and work for free as your surgical assistant.  🙂

Ed:

You do not apply the tape to the top. The seams and eternabond tape almost always flips the top wiper seal into position.

The grip tape is used on the sides only. This is where an inverted slide seal will cause damage. If your toppers are in good shape and fit well then you should not get any water on the roof of the slide.  Simply apply the tape to the sides and call it good.

I actually thought of buying one to do roof top inspections which would save me from climbing up and down coaches. But after considering the liability that would come from crashing it into the side of someones coach I nixed the idea.

I  would still like to buy one to screw around with as a hobby. I can remember Ingrid and I stayed at a resort in AZ that had its own small airfield for RC planes. I was shocked at the number of RV'ers who used that air field for flying RC planes. It was a real cool idea and the only resort I have ever seen that had a small airfield with work benches, etc for the RC hobbyist.

  Conversing over the years via e-mails and phone it was great to finally get to meet you in person.  Even I was surprised on how courteous I was to a Naval aviator. 🙂

Our staff goes above and beyond to make sure each customer is happy before they leave. We routinely get customers who drive very long distances to have Dustin or myself work on their coach but I think you may have set a record since you are Seattle based. Thanks for coming in to see us and spending time with our crew.  They enjoyed having you stay with us. As for myself I enjoyed being able to annoy a sailor.

I am still trying to figure out how you spent an entire airline career flying 747's. Most pilots have to fly a lot of crappy domestic routes to get to the point of flying heavies. You were blessed to fly the Queen of the skies for over 20 plus years for NWA.  This Monaco group BTW has only one other 747 jockey that I know of, Ed Fogle, who flew the 747 and I try and annoy him often as well. I believe Ed flew the 200 series for United. Our group here is littered with retired airline pilots and I myself have worked on or inspected over 2 dozen of you jet jockeys coaches.  

Thanks again for making the long trip. It was great to sit down and tell war stories. I hope someday you can make it to a Gathering. God Bless you Gary. Stay safe and stay healthy. Semper Fi.

Ed:

Anti skid tape will work but you have to be careful that the grit is not aggressive or you will end up wearing out the seals. I have seen owners use anti skid tape that was real coarse and it wore the seals out pretty quickly.

Here is a tape that will work - https://www.campingworld.com/camco-grip-tape-320932.html

I get e-mails from customers quite often asking me about the value of their coach and to also pass the word on that their coach is for sale.

There are times I have to upset someone and tell them their asking price is way out of line and their coach is not worth what they are asking. But I feel I have a responsibility to always be honest rather then blowing sunshine in someones ears which doesn't help them. They ask and I give them an honest answer. 

I remember getting a call once from a customer telling me he was selling his coach and then told me the asking price. I asked how he arrived at that price and he said " that is what I owe on it and besides it is a great coach ".  He was $ 30 K over market prices. Geez.

What you owe or your opinion on it being a great coach is always over ridden by market price.  I have not traded up ( though I would love to ) because our coach is paid off and I do not want to start the payment thing all over again at my age.  I also know what our coach is worth and it isn't worth selling and starting over. At this point in my life I am looking to sink my money into appreciating assets not depreciating ones. 🙂

Jon:

This is a major undertaking and would require a shop that specializes in this work. Fiberglass ( and metal ) roofs are attached along the beltlines and at the front and rear caps. Think of it as a lid on a container.  How big is the area  that is damaged ?

Rob:

Like anything, if you are selling something it is only worth what someone will pay. 🙂

From everything I have seen, upgrades are something that typically will not bump the price up.  You can upgrade furniture, appliances, entertainment systems, etc. and that is all money you will not see a return on. The overall condition of the coachs can sometimes give you a good price bump. I have seen immaculate coaches sell for more money simply because they looked like they were babied and well kept.

Where you can get a price bump is with upgrades such as tires, batteries, steering gear change outs, Monaco watts link systems, etc. Buyers are more concerned about mechanics then interior appointments.  Mileage is another thing. There has always been this magic number with diesel pushers which is 100,000. Once a coach hits that mark, resales values go down. It is all a mental thing and honestly is BS as everyone knows that our diesel engines will go 500,000 miles as will our transmissions.  No idea why this happens but maybe it is a carryover from years ago with auto's which people thought 100 K miles and the car was on its last leg. Of course now it is nothing to run a car or pickup for 250 K miles.

Prevost coaches will run 700 K mile before you have to start worrying. You wouldn't consider an engine rebuild on a Detroit until you have 600 - 700 K miles. Yet prices start dropping once a Prevost hits 150 - 200 K miles. I have seen prevosts with 500 K miles going for $ 50 - 60 K. Most of those were entertainer buses.

The NADA book values are close to being useless, especially on trade ins. The NADA value will get you close if you are selling it privately but even then NADA values are high. Dealers go off the black book or recent dealer auction prices. Dave Pratt owned a car dealership and he can tell you that RV and car dealers never use NADA.  If they are buying a trade in they go off the prices for like vehicles at recent dealer auctions. The main reason is very few RV's and cars that are traded in actually go onto dealer lots for resale. The bigger dealers  keep some of the vehicles and take the rest to auction. They will only put money into a trade in based on what they can get at auction. All the used RV & car dealers get alot of their used vehicles from auctions.  Many new RV/car dealers will only sell trade ins that have low mileage and have no issues. Otherwise trade in vehicles are dumped at auctions and bought by used RV/Car dealers.

You do have one good thing going for you, most RV buyers are still using RV Trader and other sites like that. Many do not have the connections in the RV world to grab really good deals from dealers, etc. I can put a call in to several dealers we work with and tell them to watch for a certain coach and if one comes in I can buy it a whole lot cheaper off their back lot. The other factor that effect values are the distress sales. A spouse dies and it forces a quick sale of an RV usually at discounted prices.

I get a lot of RV industry trade publications. Some are available to the public and others are for companies in the RV Industry. I also talk to RV dealers a great deal so I get a lot of information fed to me in regards to what current trends are.  We also have close relationships with many of our customers who share their buying habits with us. With that said this is an accumulation of what I am seeing and hearing from a multitude of sources.

Early during the pandemic, downward pressures were seen on used diesel coaches. Dealer auction prices dropped significantly ( where dealers sell and buy used coaches ) The price drop since then has reversed and used coach prices are now coming back. Sales of new diesels remains down. Towables is where all the upward trends in the industry is coming from with sales numbers ramping upward. Many new units are sold before they even reach the dealer. I have had dealers report to me that their inventory is getting hit hard. With the closing of many manufacturing plants inventory dwindled and this caused some big price discrepancies across dealer lots. This caused discounts to be smaller on towables. Also helping to boost new RV sales is the low interest rates.

On the used market, prices on towables have dropped like a rock. In the towable market people are buying new and not used because of interest rates and pricing. While prices on Diesel coaches have flattened and in some instances gone up, there are still some amazing deals. I have seen 2 of our customers make insane buy's recently directly from dealers on coaches that were on the back lot waiting to be processed and placed on the sales lot.  Both of them told me they took their time and snooped for a used coach that wasn't listed on internet sites such as RV Trader but rather looked in for a coach in non traditional ways . One customer bought an 04  40 ft diplomat for $ 26 K. Another bought a 2008 45 ft Sig that looked like it was brand new for $ 90 K.  My son is in the process of buying an 05 Windsor that is in pristine condition and has had thousands of dollars worth of upgrades including tires, batteries, stainless exhaust, interior upgrades, etc.. - $ 50 K. I just missed the sale of a 2001 Prevost H3-45 in great condition with 75 K miles which had new tires, batteries and came with  full service records - $ 124 K. In other words these prices reflect wholesale/auction price values.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say the prices for used diesel coaches will hold at current levels. There is a new mind set taking hold due to Covid among consumers and that is vacations  that included cruises, air travel and hotels are giving way to people who now want RV's to vacation with all in an effort to control their living environment. Also, people who currently own RV's, especially those with diesel pushers are holding on to them, upgrading them and will now use them more.

For those looking to buy a used coach my advice is to take your time and look for a great deal in non traditional places. They are out there and if you are patient you can score an amazing deal. If you are looking for a luxury coach now is a great time as I have been monitoring luxury bus sales and there are some awesome deals on older used Prevosts, Foretravels and Newells.  

Here is just one of many articles I have been seeing lately in trade publications.

https://rv-pro.com/news/rvs-spike-popularity-due-covid-19?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200622 RVP ENEWS (1)&utm_content=&spMailingID=23431038&spUserID=NjE3MjYxMTUxOTYzS0&spJobID=1761262618&spReportId=MTc2MTI2MjYxOAS2