throgmartin

Absolutely heartbreaking. An entire family gone. 😞

A steer tire blow out was always one of my biggest fears while driving the coach. I am a bit more relaxed now with Tyron bands on the steer tires knowing if I have a blow out I can easily maintain control. I have talked with a couple owners who had Tyron bands and blew a tire and they said they simply steered onto the shoulder.

My prayers for the families of these people.

I thought I would post this in the event any member will be in the Elkhart area.

Elkhart Sales & Service is holding an auction. Below is the link for details. I am sure Marv will have a lot of Monaco/HR parts laying around.

https://hahnrealtyandauction.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/4x8HahnElkhartSalesSvc_PP_FC.pdf

Are they answering their phone ? Are they still in business or are they simply ignoring you ?

I hate reading these types of posts. It seems like there is more and more of this going on. We had a customer who needed some work done who lives in our area. Because we don't do mobile work and he couldn't bring his RV in to us he hired a well known mobile RV Tech. He paid a deposit of over $ 3,000 for parts and a few weeks afterwards the mobile RV tech shut down and left the area. I found he opened up on the other side of Florida. 2 Months later he closed down again and left the State.

I hope you get an equitable resolution with this issue.

In regards to weight, I see you have an Exec. This means your forward slides will be HWH which are hydraulic and can handle additional weight ( within reason of course ). If your slide mechanisms were Lippert or RVA then I would have concerns. These are motor/gear driven and the motor ratings are about maxed out in regards to the factory weight. Adding additional weight to slides like these could cause motor/gear problems.

Throughout the years I have read posts from so called experts who gave advice that I knew was wrong and was going to waste a coach owners money and time. It gets frustrating to read these posts. Thankfully, on this forum we have moderators that will delete an incorrect part or procedure that could cause a member problems.

This is why I have always supported the Monacoer's group. The knowledge base of some members here is amazing. Kudo's to those who help other fellow owners. And my sincere thanks to Dave Pratt and all the moderators for keeping this site up and going. God Bless All Ya'll. 🙂

Dave Pratt asked me a while back to post about the latest changes to my companies. I guess now is a good time to do that to eliminate any rumors / misconceptions.

Ingrid and I were divorced a while back. We tried to keep it quiet as it was a personal affair and did not want it to effect our companies. We have a good working relationship and support each others companies. Throgmartin Holdings is now Throgmartin Capital which is a commercial property and business development company. I own the company and my daughter, Natalia is the President. Talin Group and its 2 divisions,  Talin Manufacturing and Talin RV  I also own. My son Lindy is the President. I also own Vanguard Storage Solutions and Jetstream Dynamics. Again my kid's serve as Presidents of the companies. Bethany is the Executive Vice President of all companies and runs the day to day operations for all of them. I serve as acting Chairman for all companies.

Both Lindy and Natalia are both brilliant business people. They act as advisors to me and Bethany and help steer our companies. I involve them in all large decision making processes as well as investments. I am blessed to have 2 kids who have such amazing business minds and are so customer focused. They also share my mission in providing quality products and services to our customers. When God comes to call me home, they both will take over their respective companies, properties and assets and you can be assured there will be no changes in the quality of our products or level of customer service. All of our companies have always been family run businesses  and always will be.

In regards to Stone Vos, I originally founded that company in 2006 and ran the operations until 2015 when Ingrid took over. At that time I went on and started Talin. Ingrid assumed ownership of Stone Vos in 2021 when all the companies were split up and she runs the company with the same exact standards I set years ago - Quality is always # 1 as is customer service.

My day to day job now is to fill in for tech's, assist the techs with technical advice and support our customers. Bethany does an amazing job as my VP and runs a tight ship. Her knowledge base with RV's is phenomenal and she will work as a tech on her own when needed. Between her and the kids handling everything along with a great tech staff, it allows me to spend as much time as I can hiding and staying out of their paths. 🙂

Roy:

Proflex will work just as well as long as it is covered with eternabond tape.

Jeff:

One reason why I know so much about our body panels is because one of my closest friends who was the supervisor of body and paint at the Monaco factory. He was my mentor on body, paint and slides.

In fact he was in charge of the Monaco/Dow Corning body retrofit program. For a back story, Dow changed the chemical makeup for the manufacturing of the body panels. What happened is that their new chemical formula didn't work. It created tiny gas bubbles inside the fiberglass which when heated by the sun would bubble and escape to the surface, creating the check marks. Monaco sued them and they settled for millions of dollars. Monaco then started fixing the check marks under warranty for a short period of time until they started realizing that grinding and sanding would not rid the fiberglass of the checking. It kept coming back.

Monaco then developed and started doing overlayment of the fiberglass which did work. Problem is it cost Monaco a great deal of money. They stopped covering the checking under warranty and basically told owners to go pound sand.

Unfortunately, many RV body shops never got the memo that sanding and grinding the check marks out would NOT cure the problem. Sadly, many coach owners paid big money to have the check marks fixed but after a year or two the check marks came back as the fiberglass kept off-gassing. The only true fix is to replace the walls and I already have covered that in my previous post.

If you look at a Monaco coach that has check marks, I can almost guarantee those check marks are appearing the most on dark colors. Dark colors absorb UV rays and the subsequent heat transfers right into the fiberglass creating off gassing. My coach, an 05 Monaco, has a great deal of check marks and guess where they are ? On the black stripe. My fix for the check marks is not to look at it. 🙂

If any body shop tells you they have a permanent fix for check marks, run, don't walk.

Bob:

Your post brings back some painful days when I owned Stone Vos. I can remember the very first Girard patio awning fabric replacement I did. It was for a member here, Ron Jones. The first time he put it out it blew the seams apart. I did the awning again and it blew the seams.  It took over a year for me to figure out the way Girard sews their patio awning fabric. Johnny, the previous owner and President of Girard was a friend of mine and when we were at an event together one night he finally told me how ther were sewn ( he had too much to drink that night ) 🙂

Girard patio awning fabric has a very special taper to it - side to side. Once I learned the formula I cranked out Girard awnings left and right with precision. The same held true for Zip Dee's. ( Talking about a major headache ). The Zip Dee's are the hardest of any awning fabric to make. It took me a year to perfect them and thousands of dollars. They are so difficult that today Stone Vos is the only aftermarket company that makes Zip Dee fabric replacements. As a back story to the Zip Dee's I perfected the fabric replacements with a member here. He was gracious enough to allow me to experiment on his Monaco coach. It was a real chore as I was striving for perfection. I finally conquered the monster. The Monaco member was patient - Thank God.

Paul, you really need to research some of these companies and their products before recommending them. You could really cost people money. Tough Top's sells vinyl fabric replacements only. They do not offer acrylic ( canvas ) products. Vinyl weighs almost 2 times more then what an acrylic patio awning fabric weighs. The vast majority of automatic patio awnings cannot handle vinyl fabric. The weight is very hard on motors and will over tax them. Most automatic awnings struggle with light weight acrylic/canvas fabrics. There are a few automatic awnings made with vinyl fabric but the vinyl is real cheap and lightweight.

One other issue I want to bring up is the acrylic fabric itself. Back in the day Sunbrella was the gold standard. If you were a boater at any time you know the name and the quality back then. That quality has sailed off into the sunset. They have shifted a lot of the production to textile mills in China and also cheapened the formula for the fabric itself. It now stretches terribly and fades. It is a shame Glen Raven ( the manufacturer ) did this with Sunbrella but when they cornered the market they cheapened the product. Their downward spiral started in 2009. I was the first in the country to import and use Sattler fabric which is manufactured in Germany. It is the highest quality fabric on the market because they use Turkish fibers and are a vertical company. Their fabric is also woven to prevent stretching. The finish ( UV inhibitors ) are also top of the line. If you see a mega yacht in the Mediterranean, chances are it has Sattler fabric or Tempotest, an Italian fabric. Shade Pro and Girard still use Sunbrella.

Typically these cracks are in the fiberglass. Is this what you are saying Ray ?

These cracks normally appear near the front of the roof and the rear. I have been on the roofs of thousands of Monaco coaches doing inspections and most of these cracks that I have found appear near the front and slightly to the left of center line. The cracks in the rear are typically in the area in front of the ladder.

The fix is to drill a tiny hole at the ends of each crack. You then apply Dicor self leveling caulking to the crack and holes and then cover with a piece of eternabond tape. If the cracks are very fine spider web like cracks, painting over them with Dicor fiberglass paint will suffice. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why these cracks appeared in the same area of these coaches. Strangely, these cracks have been predominately on Dynastys. My only theory I have come up with is the way they welded the braces on the roof in those areas.

I have repaired a dozen or more roofs the way I described above and have never had one leak.

First let me say that the clunking could be a loose shock.

Secondly, I have a great deal of experience with new sidewall's being installed. One of our members had this done and the sidewalls delaminated in a matter of a couple weeks. The cause of the delam was the company replacing the sidewalls did not follow the industry standards for materials ( adhesives ) as well as the process for installation. After the new sidewalls delaminated, the owner contacted me and asked if I would testify as an expert witness. Long story short, I agreed. The RV Service companies insurance carrier lost the case and settled. They could not find another expert witness that could overcome my testimony.  My testimony was nothing more then the industry standard protocols which they never followed.

The process is very detailed and involved. It is not a matter of hanging new walls and painting. The materials, especially the adhesives not to mention the clamping process, which is detailed, decides the outcome of the job. The owner was smart and took detailed pictures throughout the process which assisted me in finding all the mistakes the company made ( and there were many ) while doing the work.

Before you agree to this work you need to do your due diligence. Do they use pre-built Filon panels or do they glue up their own panels using Filon rolls ? If they glue up their own then run. Side panels for a coach are made with a machine and after the adhesive is applied, 6,000 lbs of force is applied to the panel. Further, this is all done in an environmentally controlled atmosphere where temperature, humidity and air quality is constantly maintained. The panels are applied to the sidewall beams using a special adhesive and then are held in place using a specific clamping procedure. It is left that way till the adhesive cures.

Any variation from this procedure will result in exactly what happened to the Monaco member I am talking about above. I seen his coach afterwards and the delamination was horrific. My heart broke for him and his wife. You could look down the sidewalls of his coach and it was nothing but waves of delam.

My point is this - Hanging new sidewalls is very specialized work and you want to work with a reputable company who not only has a vast amount of experience with these types of projects but also is fully insured in case the job goes sideways. You also want a warranty In WRITING. 90 days or even 6 months is not acceptable. The company in Florida that did the work for the owner had a lot of experience hanging new walls - on travel trailers. They had no experience doing large/tall walls found on a diesel pusher. Whatever company you are having do this I would dig deep into their reputation and skill sets. I know what the costs are for these jobs so be sure and investigate before you pour a ton of money into this project.

Whenever buying awnings or slide topper fabric ALWAYS look at the warranty period not the price. That tells you the quality of the thread and fabric. Awning Companies adjust their warranty time lines to the life of the fabric. They are not going to risk going bankrupt over warranty claims. Trying to pinch pennies on a topper that you have to pay to have installed will come right back and bite you down the road when you start the whole game over again.

BTW, guess who Elite orders their fabric from ? Stone Vos.

Oem/Carefree - 1 Year

Tough Top Warranty - 5 Years

Shade Pro - 7 years

Stone Vos - 10 years

Tell me who you think sells the highest quality fabric and thread ?

On 7/13/2023 at 6:36 PM, TomV48 said:

Wow Gary, I hope you are correct.   This was scary reading until I saw your post!👍

Tom:

Gary is correct. 2005 was a major upgrade tear for the Ambassador/Knight. It went to the RR8R chassis as well as numerous other upgrades. The 2004 and 2005 Ambassador/Knight's are totally different animals.

Andy:

We specialize in roof renovations which includes, paint prep, paint, caulking and eternabond. In all my years in this business I have not once encountered a Monaco roof that needed to be replaced. I have seen a few Sig's and Dynastys that were lacking a cross member support and even then I recommended the customer let it go and live with it. The cost for a roof replacement is astronomical.

Unfortunately numerous service centers are unethical and looking for additional revenue. This is also compounded by the fact the industry is lacking good qualified tech's whop have experience with Monaco's. I recommend always getting a second opinion on large expenditure/repair bills. I cannot count the times I have had a customer come in with an estimate to fix a problem that runs into the thousands and we fix it for a 1/4 of the cost. It is a shame this industry has so many unethical players out there.

9 hours ago, olywrestle said:

In the process of all this, I discovered the audible alert tied into the low air/transmission gear had the ground wire cut. Based on everything out there, I bet my Nason switch on the parking brake is bad. I hooked up the alarm anyways to see what happens on my next trip. Thanks all for the insights. 

Brad:

I have an ambassador and these parking brake switches are known to go bad. I actually have a spare somewhere and need to replace mine as this alarm will start chiming going down the road for no reason. Like you all gauges say everything is fine, including air pressure. It is really bad if I park and then release the parking brake and take off. Sometimes that alarm will stay on for 20-30 minutes. It is annoying and drives me Bat Shxx crazy.

18 hours ago, Twomed said:

Picture worth a thousand words.... Mike's video will help you decide whether you have the time/skills to do the job of install.  Or if you live a long way from Florida. 

I chose to do mine and had no issues.  The grinding of the end strip is may not be necessary because it is simply a J shaped extrusion that protects the bottom edge of the glass end wall in the OEM design.   After initially starting to grind the thing the outboard end just popped out and I pulled the strip out with Vise Grips.  I also used quick dry 5200 that is less runny and sets up in less time.  Discussed that with Chris when I did it because I have experience with 5200 in marine applications. 

My pics below BUT AS ALWAYS your trim may be different, so maybe start with a grind on the outside end first.  This piece adds nothing to strength and the whole edge will be completely encapsulated in 5200 and stainless steel when finished.  Makes the job a whole lot easier!! 

FYI, the trim piece that Chuck is holding HAS to be removed. You never want to plate over the top of it. This trim piece is the culprit in 90 % of rotted slide floors. Monaco was the only manufacturer to ever use this trim piece slide corner setup. The main issue is they installed this trim but never applied sealant to it. The caulking on top of this trim opens up a little and then water enters and drips down onto the floor. You can re-caulk it, but operating the slides over time opens the void up again.

That trim is the reason why the majority of our plates are made for Monacos. We do a lot of towable's as well but they have a different trim piece/setup.

11 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Now, @throgmartin is the expert, but I used about 75-80 per beltline (300 SS rivets / 4 beltlines = 75 per)  Now, I may have been overzealous - I generally replaced 1 for 1 plus a few...  At each screw, a few inches over, plus I doubled up at the ends, a splice in the aluminum beltline, and a trouble spot or two, but "mathing" it:

40' / 0.5' between screws = 80 rivets per beltline. 

So my guesstimate would be (length of coach) x 2 = # of rivets for each beltline. That includes drops, losses, and shrinkage, but buy extra anyway.  You'll eventually use them. 🤣

Also, I ended up using exactly 1 tube of ProFlex per 40' beltline. Buy an extra tube of that, too.  It's handy to have around when you need it.

The most expensive part will be your time, so my point is buy a little extra so you don't run out. 😉

 

You are pretty much on the mark Scotty. We typically use around 300 for upper and lower beltlines on a 40 ft coach. We also will place a few extra rivets in the biggest problem areas which is right behind or in front of the radius's found on the front and rear areas where the beltine turns downward.

80 % of popped beltlines occur in these areas. Why ? Because this is where the forces are applied to the house ( front and rear caps ). One has to look at how the roadmaster chassis and house frame is built to understand the torsional twisting that happens. Many people think because the chassis is such a robust, thick metal frame there is no deflection or twisting applied to the house portion. Trust me - There is. Popped beltlines, popped or broken windshields are all evidence of the physics at play with our coaches.

5 hours ago, JeffM31 said:

Awesome info, thank you. Yes, it is a flush floor one piece with bevel. If your plates work I would be more than happy to do that. The damage is around 16x16 on both corners. If the plates are large enough, could I install them and then epoxy from the top to stiffen up the top side? 

Jeff. We can work with you and see if it isn't something we can plate. We are closed this week for staff vacations and the holiday. On Monday call Bethany and discuss this with her. Be sure you let her know we talked here on the forum. 352-942-2653. In the meantime, do some probing to find out how far the rot extends in from the sides and take a few pictures to send to her via e-mail - bethany@talinrv.com Her and I will review the pictures and I will make a determination. If I can save your floor I will. No promises though. 🙂

It is all about the science.

https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/ss/slideshow-dirty-sheets-skin-problems

56 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Try this

https://shawinc.com/Newsroom/Press-Releases/Shaw-Announces-New-Product-and-Design-Hub-for-RV-a
 

if you google RV PLYWOOD FLOORING ELKHART INDANA, lots of hits.  If this doesn’t sound correct to @throgmartin, then call some of the shops that specialize and tell them you are NOT LOCAL  DIY and ask if they know or use the product Chris talked about and who is , typically they will be helpful

Shaw sells flooring, not composite floors/plywood.

Tom, if you have time maybe you can give a call to Brett Howard and see if he remembers the name of the company. He ordered a lot of slide floors during his time at Alliance. If someone finds the name of the company maybe we can have it added to our supplier/parts list so we don't have to re-visit this 2 years from now. I did multiple searches and could not come up with the name. 🙂

Some of you know I am a germ-a-phobe. I am not too far off the Howard Hughes spectrum. I read this article and ran like hell to my bedroom and stripped my bed. I have always stayed on top of my bedding and washed it often but after reading this article I am itching like a dog with fleas. 2 gallons of body slime after 30 days ? Pillowcases with more bacteria then a toilet seat ? Good God. I want to puke. At the very least I want to take a shower in hand sanitizer.

I took a microbio class at Michigan State and remember growing bugs in the lab. I never knew this. Of course I always knew bedding needed to be changed often and as a matter of fact I have a routine - change the bedding but before putting new bedsheets down, spray the hell out of the mattress with Lysol. The reason for posting this is that I know we have a few members who are very immune compromised like myself. I also know I cannot possibly be the only germ-a-phobe on here. There has to be one other member that washes his hands 25 times a day and has hand sanitizer bottles located everywhere in their home and cars. 🙂

Pardon me folks as I am on my way to the store to buy a couple extra sheet sets so I can change them even more often.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/dangers-you-cant-see-lurking-unwashed-bedding-study-health-concerns

11 hours ago, Robertpk said:

Good evening to all. My wife and I went away this weekend and discovered a water leak. My belt lines are loose. Screws were used and aluminum pop rivets were also used. Can someone tell me where I can buy 3/16 x 7/8 grip 304 stainless steel rivets. Can’t seem to find them on Amazon. I do have several left over from my guardian plate installation. Thanks to everyone on this site for all the knowledge that shared with everyone.

I typically send people to E-Bay. Look for the seller called Albany Fasteners. They are typically cheaper then Amazon. You will want their 304 Stainless 3/16 x 7/8ths rivets.

There is a company in Indiana ( Elkhart area ) that sells slide flooring. It comes with the laminate already vacuumed bonded to the plywood. For the life of me I cannot remember the name of the company. You will have to do a heavy google search. You will need to know what slide floor this is - raised floor or flush floor. If it is a flush floor then you will need to order a floor with the 30 degree bevel on the inside edge.

If it is a flush floor then to arrive at a professional installation the slide will HAVE to be pulled. This floor is installed and screwed from the bottom. There is not enough clearance on the inside edge to accomplish this with the slide in place. Also if it is a flush floor and you locate some plywood you will HAVE to cut a 30 degree bevel on the inside edge. This floor has to have this bevel or you will knock the glide bar off and at that point you are talking even bigger money.

Lazy Days in Wildwood specializes in replacing floors. They have a huge slide pulling machine. Last I knew a large slide floor replacement was around $ 8,000 - 10,000. If you have a full wall slide the cost can run up to $ 20,000. This is why I have hammered into peoples heads to check their slides often. This is also why I invented the Guardian Plate system. If owners catch the floor rot early it can be a $ 1,000 or less fix.

Just a couple other tid-bits here. If you find the company that sells the flooring be prepared for hefty shipping costs. It HAS to come by semi. Also, if you are replacing a flush floor it has to be one solid piece of plywood. It cannot be seamed or overlaid. I re-worked my flush floor slide and seamed it. It was a prototype job I designed. It has held up well with no issues over the last 5 years but it is very complicated and took some engineering to do it. It also included some specialized stainless plating and fasteners. ( There is no way to explain the process here as it gets very in depth ). While it has performed perfectly, I wouldn't do it to a customers coach as the time and materials involved is expensive and there are risks. If you go to the headache of replacing the floor yourself I would look for Marine plywood.

One other note. If you do have a flush floor and find plywood you will want to laminate it and not paint it or epoxy it. Remember, the entire floor bottom runs across a plastic glide bar. The last thing you want is to go to the headache of replacing the floor and then have a surface that exerts a lot of friction which will make the motor run harder as well as experience the bottom of your new slide floor begin to deteriorate.

If you cannot find the floor supplier in Indiana then you may want to consider calling Lazy Days in Wildwood. Do not contact their service center in Tampa. Their staff does not have the experience nor the machine. Their Wildwood location ( former Monaco service center ) has done a lot of floor replacements. If you want to send me pictures of your floor I maybe able to determine if you really need a new floor. I have installed Guardian plates on some pretty bad floors saving them. Check out some of these.

https://talinman.com/casestudies/

Tim:

I invented the Guardian Plate system in 2015 due to the floor rot I had on my Monaco brand coach. I replaced one floor and 1 1/2 years later it started rotting out again. I had enough as replacing floors is labor intensive and for those who have to pay to have it done extremely expensive. It took me 2 years of working with industry experts to develop, beta test and then release the Guardian Plate system to the RV public in 2017. Since then we have sold 1,000's of plate systems. To this date I have not had a customer have a failure where floor rot returned.

It sounds like your slide would be a perfect candidate. Look over our case studies to see some of the floor rot we have corrected in the past.

https://talinman.com/casestudies/

13 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

 

I hear he can do the same for people,  the thought oughtta keep one awake even in a seminar.  One little snip & there ya go.      ROLMAO

YIKES............ Now that you mentioned that............ Maybe he wasn't referring to my dog and actually meant me 🙂