Loose Rivets, Driver Side Flat Floor Slide - 2007 Camelot

[chip4872]

I have several loose rivets on the corner of the curb/driver's side front slideout (2007 Camelot 40 PDQ). 

I plan to replace the rivets, but am unsure whether I should remove the existing and install new in the existing holes, or drill new holes and install the new rivets.  Should I support/lift the slide prior to replacement?

Not sure whether the existing are aluminum or steel, but will replace with steel unless advised otherwise.

This is a flat-floor slide, and is sluggish when retracting the slide until it gets, "Over the hump," of the glide plate.  Would the sluggishness be caused by the loose rivets?

Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

                            Chip

[Tom Cherry]

Have the 2009 SAME floor plan.  Addressing each question.

First….SAME PAGE or UNDERSTANDING….the DROP DOWN or the slide drops and then is flush or flat with the floor is the type of slide we both have….if so….then…read on.  I lost my entire hydraulic system over s similar “balky - sluggishness”….been there…. IT WAS EXPENSIVE.

Sluggishness.  BE VERY WARY. The Lippert, assuming Monaco didn’t change, hydraulic motor needs a bit of PM. Kill house battery bank. Remove cables from motor.  Clean the ends and degrease the studs if needed. There is a “locknut” on the studs….not the cable retaining nut, but the nut the cable touches. Tighten those locknuts. Snuggly, but don’t treat like steel. There is (could be.) a high resistance connection inside.  Tightening fixes this. Next, check the connections on the solenoid.  Check the connections on the cable going to the solenoid….may be a circuit breaker on the other end.  Follow the cable and tighten the power stud feeding the circuit breaker.

NOW it gets tricky.  With 50 A power on (or Genny on), check voltage at the House Bank.  Then have someone cycle the slide….if the problem is in the retraction or wherever the sluggishness is, then check the voltage during that period.  Note the voltage drop between no load and max load (when the slide is the most sluggish).

OK…repeat this. Go up front. Check the voltage, no load, on the INCOMING cable of the solenoid.  Find a good ground…Compare that to the same measurement at the actual bank.  Should be within maybe 0.2 VDC….higher….you have an internal high resistance connection…NOT GOOD.

OK… NOW full load or in use testing.  Put your VOM across the solenoid….zero volts…of course….no current going to the solenoid.  NOW, with the VOM leads, still across the solenoid terminals, watch the reading.  Should be low…0.05 (half a tenth).  If you see a spike…maybe, but it should drop back during travel.  Anything, say over 0.1 or 0.2 indicates bad solenoid contacts.

NOTE….when there is resistance or a high resistance connection, then the motor will “pull” higher current…got to have voltage and amperage…..lose or one goes down….the other goes up. In reality, it is the voltage dropping.  That motor is rated at 65 A..Full Load.  When the voltage drops, the amps skyrocket and the motor heats up.  Mine eventually burned up…NO FUN.

OK…next test.  This time, put your leads across the motor terminals.  Then do the retraction.  Note the initial reading….then where does it stabilize… IF the motor is running between 1/2 to ONE volt LOWER than what you measured on the battery bank (first test….when the slide went out), you have a cabling or connection issue.

There are, on mine…your’s is similar….only a few connections. First…main cable (4/0) to the Buss.  BUT, removing the ground studs on the back and under side of the battery box….cleaning and reinstalling is a GOOD PM first start.  My Genny would not crank….unless the battery box was open.  Cleaned….fixed…

Next, look where the House Disconnect is.  That was MY issue.  The switch contacts would vibrate….yes Blue Seas says it happens.  Could drive and stop snd slides were great.  Next time….UGLY.  I spent days testing.  I eventually added a selector switch up front in the bay.  I could use either Chassis or House or Both. There was at least, even with my new hydraulic pack, lower voltage as in slower movement with the House. I gave up….using the Chassis.  A year or so ago, I caught the CULPRIT.  The main house switch has the intermittent drop…next on my TO DO List.  I’d carry a spare switch, if I were you.

OK….that’s the drill on the sluggish movement.  

NOW….as to the rivets…. Mine have all been replaced.  I had my slide worked on by a great tech.  They tweaked the adjustments.  I had added Guardian plates….it pulled the right amperage….etc.  BUT when the switch was bad….it was awful.  I eventually burned up, intentionally, the motor…and msnually retrscted the sldie and had a new unit i stslldd and added the selector switch….as long as I kept the chassis battery as the power bank….they work great…

The techs replaced ALL my rivets.  They did NOT jack up the slide. They used SS rivets. You will need a long handle (think bolt cutter) style pop rivet gun.  The SS will destroy, assuming you have gorilla grip strength.  I worked as a boat builder prior to college in 1963, and did all the pop riveting on fishing boats snd have used them extensively over the years.  I have set over 100 SS when I installed my 3 set of Guardian Plates…so this ain’t my first rodeo.  Probably should have bought a cheap Northern Tool gun, but my 13” hand tool works.

NOW, I’d scrape and clean out all the caulking.  Mine had a few broken off, but not pulled out like yours.  I don’t know if someone tried to “fix” the gaps and used the black caulking.  Mine, I THOUGHT, was just a flat contact joint…with NO adhesive… Therein, lies the dilemma.  

How are you going to get the joints flush?  The Guardian plates use 3M 5200 sealant/adhesive. That stuff is TOUGH….and it is PERMANENT.  As far as your joints are pulled out, I’d use something like a bent pick (think icepick with a 90 deg bend…maybe 1/2” on the end) and get it all out.  I’d use a pair of surgical forcepts (think long SS tweezers) and ACETONE….sparingly on a cloth or maybe a piece of felt and clean out all the residue….compressed air first….then get rid of the dust….that activates any remaining caulking as well as the paint.  SO, if you squirt s small bead in…the pressure or clamping of the rivet as it “sets” will squeeze out the excess…

That 5200 will never let go.  OTHERS will need to chime in here.  I’d find a place to work where I could rig up a horizontal piece of 2x4 and have a vertical support…like the side of a concrete block building or a TREE or a “pole” on a Pole barn.  Then, I’d use a bottle jack and push in the metal so that the joint was same or flush, like in assembly….and then set the rivets.

AGAIN…I overkill.  My hand tool came with 4 nipples.  There is s “metric” size that is slightly bigger than the 3/16”.  THAT might be what you want to use… maybe test…

FINALLY… if you have the plastic glide strips….buy the Guardian Plates….this will fix most of the issues.  I can’t count high enough to remember how many Camelot owners have replaced them with the Guardian plates…

GOOD LUCK….probably not what you wanted to hear…but, there are many….just like you.  Work on each issue…study…google…watch videos…

Just putting in, after cleaning, replacement rivets….MIGHT be simple…but the amount of gap and flexing is more than I have seen….but others may be more versed….

 

[Doug Hoegh]

7 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Have the 2009 SAME floor plan.  Addressing each question.

First….SAME PAGE or UNDERSTANDING….the DROP DOWN or the slide drops and then is flush or flat with the floor is the type of slide we both have….if so….then…read on.  I lost my entire hydraulic system over s similar “balky - sluggishness”….been there…. IT WAS EXPENSIVE.

Sluggishness.  BE VERY WARY. The Lippert, assuming Monaco didn’t change, hydraulic motor needs a bit of PM. Kill house battery bank. Remove cables from motor.  Clean the ends and degrease the studs if needed. There is a “locknut” on the studs….not the cable retaining nut, but the nut the cable touches. Tighten those locknuts. Snuggly, but don’t treat like steel. There is (could be.) a high resistance connection inside.  Tightening fixes this. Next, check the connections on the solenoid.  Check the connections on the cable going to the solenoid….may be a circuit breaker on the other end.  Follow the cable and tighten the power stud feeding the circuit breaker.

NOW it gets tricky.  With 50 A power on (or Genny on), check voltage at the House Bank.  Then have someone cycle the slide….if the problem is in the retraction or wherever the sluggishness is, then check the voltage during that period.  Note the voltage drop between no load and max load (when the slide is the most sluggish).

OK…repeat this. Go up front. Check the voltage, no load, on the INCOMING cable of the solenoid.  Find a good ground…Compare that to the same measurement at the actual bank.  Should be within maybe 0.2 VDC….higher….you have an internal high resistance connection…NOT GOOD.

OK… NOW full load or in use testing.  Put your VOM across the solenoid….zero volts…of course….no current going to the solenoid.  NOW, with the VOM leads, still across the solenoid terminals, watch the reading.  Should be low…0.05 (half a tenth).  If you see a spike…maybe, but it should drop back during travel.  Anything, say over 0.1 or 0.2 indicates bad solenoid contacts.

NOTE….when there is resistance or a high resistance connection, then the motor will “pull” higher current…got to have voltage and amperage…..lose or one goes down….the other goes up. In reality, it is the voltage dropping.  That motor is rated at 65 A..Full Load.  When the voltage drops, the amps skyrocket and the motor heats up.  Mine eventually burned up…NO FUN.

OK…next test.  This time, put your leads across the motor terminals.  Then do the retraction.  Note the initial reading….then where does it stabilize… IF the motor is running between 1/2 to ONE volt LOWER than what you measured on the battery bank (first test….when the slide went out), you have a cabling or connection issue.

There are, on mine…your’s is similar….only a few connections. First…main cable (4/0) to the Buss.  BUT, removing the ground studs on the back and under side of the battery box….cleaning and reinstalling is a GOOD PM first start.  My Genny would not crank….unless the battery box was open.  Cleaned….fixed…

Next, look where the House Disconnect is.  That was MY issue.  The switch contacts would vibrate….yes Blue Seas says it happens.  Could drive and stop snd slides were great.  Next time….UGLY.  I spent days testing.  I eventually added a selector switch up front in the bay.  I could use either Chassis or House or Both. There was at least, even with my new hydraulic pack, lower voltage as in slower movement with the House. I gave up….using the Chassis.  A year or so ago, I caught the CULPRIT.  The main house switch has the intermittent drop…next on my TO DO List.  I’d carry a spare switch, if I were you.

OK….that’s the drill on the sluggish movement.  

NOW….as to the rivets…. Mine have all been replaced.  I had my slide worked on by a great tech.  They tweaked the adjustments.  I had added Guardian plates….it pulled the right amperage….etc.  BUT when the switch was bad….it was awful.  I eventually burned up, intentionally, the motor…and msnually retrscted the sldie and had a new unit i stslldd and added the selector switch….as long as I kept the chassis battery as the power bank….they work great…

The techs replaced ALL my rivets.  They did NOT jack up the slide. They used SS rivets. You will need a long handle (think bolt cutter) style pop rivet gun.  The SS will destroy, assuming you have gorilla grip strength.  I worked as a boat builder prior to college in 1963, and did all the pop riveting on fishing boats snd have used them extensively over the years.  I have set over 100 SS when I installed my 3 set of Guardian Plates…so this ain’t my first rodeo.  Probably should have bought a cheap Northern Tool gun, but my 13” hand tool works.

NOW, I’d scrape and clean out all the caulking.  Mine had a few broken off, but not pulled out like yours.  I don’t know if someone tried to “fix” the gaps and used the black caulking.  Mine, I THOUGHT, was just a flat contact joint…with NO adhesive… Therein, lies the dilemma.  

How are you going to get the joints flush?  The Guardian plates use 3M 5200 sealant/adhesive. That stuff is TOUGH….and it is PERMANENT.  As far as your joints are pulled out, I’d use something like a bent pick (think icepick with a 90 deg bend…maybe 1/2” on the end) and get it all out.  I’d use a pair of surgical forcepts (think long SS tweezers) and ACETONE….sparingly on a cloth or maybe a piece of felt and clean out all the residue….compressed air first….then get rid of the dust….that activates any remaining caulking as well as the paint.  SO, if you squirt s small bead in…the pressure or clamping of the rivet as it “sets” will squeeze out the excess…

That 5200 will never let go.  OTHERS will need to chime in here.  I’d find a place to work where I could rig up a horizontal piece of 2x4 and have a vertical support…like the side of a concrete block building or a TREE or a “pole” on a Pole barn.  Then, I’d use a bottle jack and push in the metal so that the joint was same or flush, like in assembly….and then set the rivets.

AGAIN…I overkill.  My hand tool came with 4 nipples.  There is s “metric” size that is slightly bigger than the 3/16”.  THAT might be what you want to use… maybe test…

FINALLY… if you have the plastic glide strips….buy the Guardian Plates….this will fix most of the issues.  I can’t count high enough to remember how many Camelot owners have replaced them with the Guardian plates…

GOOD LUCK….probably not what you wanted to hear…but, there are many….just like you.  Work on each issue…study…google…watch videos…

Just putting in, after cleaning, replacement rivets….MIGHT be simple…but the amount of gap and flexing is more than I have seen….but others may be more versed….

 

Unlike Tom I found an air operated rivet gun.  Worth the money in my opinion.  https://a.co/d/58NHtyG

[chip4872]

Thanks, Tom, for your usual in-depth response.

My coach, however, has no hydraulic operated slides--all 12V.  I'll adapt your procedure to my setup.  We are headed to Delaware for a couple of months, so will delve into this issue when we get settled in.

I was hoping that installing new rivets would pull the gap together.  Will have to brainstorm a jig to compress the gap prior to replacing rivets.  And the adhesive is something I hadn't considered.

Will update as I progress.

                               Chip

[Tom Cherry]

Goes to show….don’t make assumptions. I guess that when they revised and upgraded the 2008, then they switched.  Memory doesn’t always work.

check our prints… we do have the 2007 prints.  The load on the electric isn’t as high.  But doing the PM on the ground studs and also checking the disconnect and having a spare, at the age of your coach is a good PM Practice.

No good drawing on slides.  If you still have issues, try to measure both the motor voltages….if the balky one is an issue…look for obstruction 

[Tom Cherry]

UPDATE...  If you still have a BALKY slide, then invest in a DC Clamp On Ammeter.  Then you can use it on your House Bank when you run out the balky slide and compare to the current draw on the other slide.  Obviously, since it is LOWER, the amps will be lower.  BUT, you will know if you are pulling MORE amps than the motor is supposed to handle.

I, again, am not the expert.... BUT if you call Lippert and ask for Tech Support, they can look up the Full Load Amps (FLA) of the drop down or FLUSH FLOOR slide...

Then you will know how close you are...

BTW....If you look on page 108 of the Owner's Manual...there are instructions as to how to get to it.  SO, you should easily be able to measure the Voltage when it is moving....and then compare...