2008 HR Imperial Valid Air Leveling front right corner leaks down

[DarrenD]

Hello everyone!

I'm having an issue with my air leveling leaking down on the front right causing the coach to lean excessively. It doesn't matter if I use AUTO or manual level, after just a few minutes, the right front leans a lot.  When this started, I thought no problem, I'll rebuild the air leveling manifold just as I did the rear manifold when it started acting up using the instructions on this forum. The manifold was dirty and the old red stoppers were a bit brittle. All cleaned up and reinstalled, ready to test it out. Much to my dismay, the coach still leaned to the right minutes after leveling. I went back under with the soapy water, found a few bubbles on the manifold fittings and fixed them. Still will not hold the coach level. As a troubleshooting thought, I swapped the left and right air lines on the manifold. I had to level the coach manually as the computer was confused. After a few minutes, much to my surprise, the same RIGHT side began to leak down. I believe this eliminates the manifold as the issue. After all of that, I swapped the air lines back to the normal position and called it a night. 

Can some one point me in a direction to check tomorrow? I did spray some soapy water around the bags but didn't see anything. I also don't hear any air leaking which is strange since the coach starts leaning so quickly. If it was a bad bag, since there are two would it lean so excessively? I've read that the braided hoses that run from the ping tank to the bags could be suspect, I'll check those tomorrow.   This is very frustrating, any help would be appreciated. 

Thanks-

Darren

 

[Frank McElroy]

8 hours ago, DarrenD said:

Hello everyone!

I'm having an issue with my air leveling leaking down on the front right causing the coach to lean excessively. It doesn't matter if I use AUTO or manual level, after just a few minutes, the right front leans a lot.  When this started, I thought no problem, I'll rebuild the air leveling manifold just as I did the rear manifold when it started acting up using the instructions on this forum. The manifold was dirty and the old red stoppers were a bit brittle. All cleaned up and reinstalled, ready to test it out. Much to my dismay, the coach still leaned to the right minutes after leveling. I went back under with the soapy water, found a few bubbles on the manifold fittings and fixed them. Still will not hold the coach level. As a troubleshooting thought, I swapped the left and right air lines on the manifold. I had to level the coach manually as the computer was confused. After a few minutes, much to my surprise, the same RIGHT side began to leak down. I believe this eliminates the manifold as the issue. After all of that, I swapped the air lines back to the normal position and called it a night. 

Can some one point me in a direction to check tomorrow? I did spray some soapy water around the bags but didn't see anything. I also don't hear any air leaking which is strange since the coach starts leaning so quickly. If it was a bad bag, since there are two would it lean so excessively? I've read that the braided hoses that run from the ping tank to the bags could be suspect, I'll check those tomorrow.   This is very frustrating, any help would be appreciated. 

Thanks-

Darren

 

You are on the right track.  With a soapy spray bottle, soak the two braided air lines to the ping tank and the air bags.  Also carefully inspect the air line going to the ping tank.  I'm sure you'll find the leak.

[DarrenD]

Found the leak. It was in the braided hose from the ping tank to the right front airbag. I had checked the fittings the day prior and no bubbles. With the advice of Frank I sprayed the actual hose and there was a significant leak just past the fitting. Strange the hose would develop a leak there.

I went to O’Riley and had a new hose made. The hose is designated as hydraulic hose but it works perfect. O’Riley had the proper fittings on hand. 

Back in business… no more lean. 

Edited July 3, 2024 by DarrenD

[Frank McElroy]

7 hours ago, DarrenD said:

Found the leak. It was in the braided hose from the ping tank to the right front airbag. I had checked the fittings the day prior and no bubbles. With the advice of Frank I sprayed the actual hose and there was a significant leak just past the fitting. Strange the hose would develop a leak there.

I went to O’Riley and had a new hose made. The hose is designated as hydraulic hose but it works perfect. O’Riley had the proper fittings on hand. 

Back in business… no more lean. 

Thank you for posting the solution.  Over the years I've seen a number of posts with braided air lines going between the front air bags to the ping tank failing just like what happened in your case. 

I'm sure others will learn from your experience and check those braided lines when searching for air leaks.

[Just Jim]

So finally climbed under the coach today to try and find my air leak.  Within minutes of turning the coach off it leans to the curb side.  Start it back up and it levels out.  I sprayed several things in the rear and it appears I see some bubbles, but nothing really glaring that would cause it to leak that quickly.  Posting a picture of what I've found so far.  Identification of these would be very helpful as I don't know what I'm looking at, however I can tell that the lines in the top left go to the brakes.

The lines running to the air bags are covered with plastic protective wrap like is on the electrical wires so I can't really spray and see them.  I sprayed the ping tank and don't see much in the way of leaks either.  It really seems like I should be able to hear an air leak as it happens fairly quickly, but all I hear is a sound that sounds like it settling about every 10-15 seconds.  Any suggestions?

[Frank McElroy]

Try spraying down the whole large braided hoses going from the ping tank to the airbags on the front PS and the two PS air bags.

Also check the vent on the air valve assembly for the front axle.  It could be a leaking PS front valve causing air to be vented.

[woodylmiller]

I hope this topic/thread gets picked up since there was a solution.  I'm having the same kind of problem.  Level and within minutes the front curb side front bag seems to start to inflate raising that side of the coach.  Myself and a mechanic checked for leaks and found nothing, but we did not soap the whole lenght of the hoses.  Talking with Valid they think the ride height leveling valve could be the problem.  The mechanic thought he could hear air "moving" inside the ride height valve.  Question; bad valve letting air leak into that front bag, or, bad contoller?  The valve was not supplied by Valid, they thought maybe "Hadley"?

I need to do more investigating.  Has anyone else had issues with the front ride height level control or valve?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty, Valid air leveling, no hydraulics.

 

[DarrenD]

My understanding is that the ride height valves are only in use when the coach is in “travel”mode. You might want to try searching on this forum rebuilding of the air leveling manifold. I’ve done it to both my front and rear, it’s a little taxing, but it’s gratifying to get the job done. I had several issues with bags leaking down overtime, rebuilding the manifold With new rubber stops, fixed all those issues.

Here is the thread :

 

 

 

[96 EVO]

5 hours ago, DarrenD said:

My understanding is that the ride height valves are only in use when the coach is in “travel”mode. You might want to try searching on this forum rebuilding of the air leveling manifold. I’ve done it to both my front and rear, it’s a little taxing, but it’s gratifying to get the job done. I had several issues with bags leaking down overtime, rebuilding the manifold With new rubber stops, fixed all those issues.

Here is the thread :

 

 

 

The tech at Valid would know that.

He must have received some additional information that led him to think ride height valve. 

[Ivan K]

There's only one leveling valve up front, for both corners so if you have only one corner raising or dropping (depending whether the coach is below or above ride hight), it is not the Hadley's fault. It is normally out of the picture when parked and ignition off because it supposed to be isolated from bags. If you get air going through it either way, it is going through the solenoid valve on manifold, specifically a leaky ride hight solenoid plunger for that corner. It would not be detected by bubbles as it is an internal leak. I had that on the rear at one time. The point is, front Hadley valve alone would not cause a corner specific problem.

[woodylmiller]

I have temporarily solved being out of level using the manual mode, releasing air from the corner that was high.  I'm out of state so I'll wait till we get back home where I have more tools to work on this.  So for now no problem.  I have no air leaks.  Coach has been sitting level for weeks since I manually deflated the corner that was high.  Very strange problem.  That one corner would raise so fast you could stand there and watch it.  That was with the dash pad in "Auto" mode.  In manual mode it just sits perfectly level.  Maybe I will just use manual from now on?

Moving on to my next project; lubricating the blower motors on the aqua hot furnace.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty

[Ivan K]

It will not keep raising if there isn't pressure to leak from your respective air tank, no air can leak towards the corner bags with empty or low tank pressure.

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, woodylmiller said:

I have temporarily solved being out of level using the manual mode, releasing air from the corner that was high.  I'm out of state so I'll wait till we get back home where I have more tools to work on this.  So for now no problem.  I have no air leaks.  Coach has been sitting level for weeks since I manually deflated the corner that was high.  Very strange problem.  That one corner would raise so fast you could stand there and watch it.  That was with the dash pad in "Auto" mode.  In manual mode it just sits perfectly level.  Maybe I will just use manual from now on?

Moving on to my next project; lubricating the blower motors on the aqua hot furnace.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty

I would call Valid, explain what your seeing.

They will probably walk you through there recalibration procedure.

[rockbust]

I also have a drop on my curb side front of my 2008 Beaver Contessa. I have sprayed soapy water on everything I can find up front. I even bought the foam stuff and no success. Just to clarify someone said that the solenoid valve pack will not show any leaks with soapy water because it is internal leaks that drop the side?  I dont want to rebuild this thing if something else is the cause

 

[Ivan K]

If you are absolutely certain that there are no external leaks, then the internal leak is what's left, question is which valve. There should be symptoms to help, like dropping only with a low air tank pressure, air out of ride hight valve exhaust or from exhaust on back of the sixpack manifold. In some instances the corner could be also raising when airtanks are full.

Of course it is assumed that electronics are good and the corner is not dropping by command.

Edited February 19 by Ivan K

[rockbust]

27 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

If you are absolutely certain that there are no external leaks, then the internal leak is what's left, question is which valve. There should be symptoms to help, like dropping only with a low air tank pressure, air out of ride hight valve exhaust or from exhaust on back of the sixpack manifold. In some instances the corner could be also raising when airtanks are full.

Of course it is assumed that electronics are good and the corner is not dropping by command.

Electronics are good. I just had to replace the control panel last year after leaving the window open while raining.  It will drop in about 20 min until the panel wakes up and the aux compressor pumps it back up. Note I did replumb the aux compressor as recommended on the forum. it was plumbed incorrect from factory and would turn on and off like crazy. (the reason it was disconnected by prior owner)

[amphi_sc]

Just a reminder for Rob (rockbust) to check the "fold" of those right front bags for leaks at various levels of inflation before you start chasing an interval valve leak.  I had one front bag that only leaked a little when 1/4 to 1/3 inflated as the folded rubber then opened a minor seep.  When inflated 100% and sprayed for leaks it was air tight.  It didn't "look" too bad but you could feel roughness in the fold. When I parked where the site sloped significantly down towards the front, the front air bags were very inflated and the coach would stay level.  When parked on a rear end low site then those front bags were minimally inflated and a particular front bag would leak as that bad spot folded over ... and within 15 minutes those two bags would be flat and "soft" to the touch.  It drove me crazy for a while as when I checked for leaks I had the suspension aired way up (and jack stands) to crawl around ... and bag sealed itself ...

Edited February 19 by amphi_sc

[rockbust]

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

Just a reminder for Rob (rockbust) to check the "fold" of those right front bags for leaks at various levels of inflation before you start chasing an interval valve leak.  I had one front bag that only leaked a little when 1/4 to 1/3 inflated as the folded rubber then opened a minor seep.  When inflated 100% and sprayed for leaks it was air tight.  It didn't "look" too bad but you could feel roughness in the fold. When I parked where the site sloped significantly down towards the front, the front air bags were very inflated and the coach would stay level.  When parked on a rear end low site then those front bags were minimally inflated and a particular front bag would leak as that bad spot folded over ... and within 15 minutes those two bags would be flat and "soft" to the touch.  It drove me crazy for a while as when I checked for leaks I had the suspension aired way up (and jack stands) to crawl around ... and bag sealed itself ...

Thank you.  I have the opposite issue. usually no noticable air loss when the nose needs little inflation. Whe the nose is low and needs lots of inflation that is when I have the biggest leaking. 

Interestingly when it leaks from the low nose (full inflation) it goes completely flat down until the system wakes up and inflates from the aux pump.  BUT if it kind of level to start I never notice any leak and it never seems to go flat down. (maybe it does still leak but i dont notice??)

[amphi_sc]

Rob, It could be when basically level to start with, the leveling system keeps the coach level until all bags are leveled down to the bump stops... and you don't notice the slight tilt.  How does each bag feel?  Firm and resist poking? Or a couple get soft to the touch ... no air inside?  If basically level to start with, measure each bag's gap off the bottom plate as soon as you park and leveled, then check the measure a few hours later or the next day.  Even a rough 1 or 2 finger eyeball can tell you if the entire coach settled evenly, or if that front corner was the low corner to begin with and it settled down to its bump stop while the leveling system let the air out of the other corners to keep the coach level.  Then at least you know if the system always leaks even when you don't notice it.

I don't know the internal algorithm of my valid system, but I seem to recall from vague memory (but not methodically proven) that I typically hear air being let out first from a high bag before hearing the inrush of air (and subsequent aux pump coming on) for a low bag filling.

YMMV