MSHappyCampers

11 minutes ago, RustyTools said:

Following this thread with great interest to see what you eventually uncover.  Your troubleshooting path has been a lot like mine with a similar but different issue - I have headlites, et al, but I don't have the ability to flash them from that headlite button on the SmartWheel. (I've seen it referred-to by the name of 'ICC Flash' and is useful to momentarily blink the lites to tell the driver passing you that it's OK to pull back over).  I've about convinced myself that my problem is in the controller, be curious what you decide on yours.

Wish I had more suggestions, but the guys have been doing a great job looking over your shoulder and holding the droplite for you.  Here's hoping you find that Holy Grail soon, Joe

 

It appears that function is not working on my rig either.  If I'm diagnosing this correctly, I should have voltage out on J12 pin 2 when pressing the headlight flash button on the SmartWheel, and I am not getting any.  Looks like that problem has to be a bad controller or a wiring problem from the steering column to the controller, but I'm not gonna worry about that right now!

8 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Sounds like you've made some progress, at least you know your headlights will work.  If you've read the VIP trouble shooting guide there is a continuity test to check the flash function, if it fails it indicates the Master needs to be replace.

The next thing to check would be your high low function on the turn signal as it should let power go to the headlight for either Low or High beam but either way there should be power going to the headlights. 

I think I will check all the connections to the Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 boxes in the front compartment next since someone said they had the same problem and that's where they found the problem.  I't stopped raining here, finally, but the wind is ice cold.  May wait for a warmer day! 

UPDATE-  I found the SmartWheel controller behind the radio.  I have voltage going into pin 1 of J12.  No voltage coming out on pin 2 of J12.  If I understand this correctly, pressing the headlight button on the SmartWheel should put voltage out on pin 2 to flash the lights.  It isn't doing this.  I can short out pins 1 & 2 on J12 and the headlights come on, regardless of the position of the headlight switch on the dash.  From all this I get that pressing the headlight button on the SmartWheel SHOULD flash the headlights, regardless of the position of the main headlight switch on the dash.  This circuit is designed to overide the normal headlight function.  There's obviously a problem with that function but that's not my primary problem.  

8 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Joe,

That makes sense based on what I've seen on the wiring diagram.  The path for the power was  Headlight Switch  >>  Smartwheel controller>> Turn Signal on column.   

Again, my smart wheel controller was behind the radio, I had to remove the small section of dash to access it.    If you look at the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide it shows you which harness controls the headlights, I believe it is the J12 harness.  You see 12 volt at at one of these pins to power the headlights. 

Heres a picture of the wiring harness show which pin should be hot.  https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/vip-sm209-sm210-smartwheel-controller-j12-plug-harness

Here is a link showing a picture of controller  http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/SM210.html

Thanks Jim!  I'll pull that dash panel and find the controller.  I really appreciate all your help! 🙂

Please check my thinking on this.  I had planned to check the connections on the boxes in the front outside compartment today.  The main 25A headlight fuse in in one of those boxes.  If there was a problem with the connections to that box then I wouldn't be getting voltage to the dash headlight switch, right?   Since I'm getting voltage out of the dash headlight switch I think maybe I would be better off finding the SmartWheel controller and checking the connections there.  Am I thinking logically here?

29 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Joe,

In an earlier post I provided a link to the Douglas Autotech website,

I went ahead and downloaded the instructions on how to change the switch, see attached.  It says you have to remove switch before you remove the harness. 

I've done a search to see if I could find a wiring diagram for the harness, no luck.  Depending on how the harness connects you might be able to get at the contacts to test.  Only issue would be if it needs a ground to the switch. 

TS012-SER_N turn signal for steering column.pdf 211.99 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks Jim!  I want to try the connections on the boxes in the outside compartment first.  

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

I've been reviewing the chassis wiring diagram for my 2002 Windsor.    I am by no means an expert but here's my take

The power for the headlights is activated once the key is turned. 

It then goes to the light switch

Then to the VIP smart module, there are relays in the VIP smart wheel module that turn on off the lights

Then to the turn signal which is the Douglas Autotech TS012 that I referenced in a previous post.

Then to the head light and terminates at the pigtail that you plug the head light in with. 

 

I've attached the wiring diagram for my coach, maybe someone else can decipher it.  When you open it the PDF will be blurry, hit CTRL5 and it will clear right up.  I found by using the search function and key words it's easy to find the circuits.  I used headlight as a keyword to start my search.  I zoomed into it 1200% to view easily and follow the wiring.  Once I found the ignition I then followed it through the light switch, then the VIP circuit, and then the flasher/turn signal. 

I think the one of the first places I'd check is the turn signal on the column , if no out going power there then work backwards.  I am no expert so maybe someone else can chime in. 

 

 

 

 

2002 Windsor Chassis Wiring Diagram.pdf 182.98 kB · 3 downloads

Jim, I have the covers off the steering column.  There is a big connector plugged in there.  I tried to unplug it but  can't get it to move much.  I think the assembly may have to be removed from the steering column before the plug will come off.  As soon as the rain stops, which is probably be tomorrow,  I am going to check the connections on the Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 boxes in the front compartment.  I'm hoping for a miracle here!  

53 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Joe, it most likely comes from Monaco #2 where the 25 amp fuse for the headlights is located. The only way to locate it is to unwrap the spilt-loom and look for headlight identification possibly on the wire. Monaco used a lot of WHITE wires exactly for that purpose of identification. I don't see any relay associated with the headlights only the fuse.

I like a previous posters suggestion of cleaning the connectors, pins and sockets real good with contact cleaner then place a small amount of electrical contact grease on the connector before sealing it back together.

Yes, my Dr4Film handle is blocked from iRV2.com for life. I still go there occasionally  to read some stuff but I no longer post. I could have re-upped with a different handle and email but the moderators would have zeroed in on me eventually, that I am sure,  due to being TOO outspoken for them. There is life after iRV2!

I mainly stick to this very friendly group.

It's been pouring rain here for the last two days.  It's supposed to clear off Friday and Saturday.  I plan to check all those connections on the Monaco 1 & 2 boxes.  Looking at the drawings for the SmartWheel, there's a relay in the control  that the headlight circuit feeds through so I'll check that out too.  Thanks for all your help!

4 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Yes, it the FRB (aka Front Run Bay).  It should have white wires  marked with DRL on it.

what about the headlight pigtail shown on the drawing?  Do you know where it is located?  All those wires are bundled and secured with cable ties so it's impossible to trace anything without cutting all the cable ties!  I guess that it's probably not that since neither low or high beams work?

Richard, are you still blocked from IRV2?

1 minute ago, Dr4Film said:

I had my Hamsar DRL relay fail a number of years back which caused my headlights to come on and stay on. Plus the relay was so hot to the touch I had to use pliers to remove it. I pulled it out then researched where to purchase another one and it was going to cost $125 !!! Nope! Instead I have been using a set of LED's that I installed in place of the Hella Fog Lamps which come on as soon as I hit the ignition key. Those are now my DRL's.

I doubt it but It may be possible but easy to test. Just pull out the relay from the socket and test your headlights.

It's raining now so can't go out.  Is the DRL relay in the front electrical compartment?

1 minute ago, jacwjames said:

Joe,

This could be a possiblity as both the High & Low beams are influenced by the DRL. 

I had posted the Windsor Chassis Wiring diagram and if you open it up, hit CTRL5 (this brings everything to focus) and then to a search for DRL it will show you where this is listed and you can follow the circuit. 

I see it on the drawing.  Don't think it could cut off the headlights, but wanted other opinions

Does anybody know where the Headlight Pigtail, #7 on the wiring diagram, is located?

Am I correct that the Hamsar DRL module could not cause my problem?

11 hours ago, Dennis Y said:

Joe,

I had a similar problem a month ago. I lost the head lights and the emergency brake chime was sounding when in gear and  e-brake off.  Other forums recommended replacing the head light switch and e-brake pressure switch.  The inexpensive 1960s vintage GM headlight switch came first so I replaced it.  Headlights still out.  I found a u-tube video on troubling the headlight switch.  The headlight switch has two power sources, parking lights and headlights.  I determined that there was no voltage on the headlight power pin.  The headlight fuse in the Monaco 2 fuse block was not blown.  Out of desperation, I decided to check all of the connections to Monaco 2 fuse block which required removing the screws attaching it and the cable bundles to the bulkhead below the main fuse panel.  I scraped some congealed grease from the four power pins on the top of the  fuse block, reset all of the other connectors, and removed and reset all of the fuses and relays.  After putting everything back together, BOTH PROBLEMS SOLVED!! 

I have since gone back and cleaned all of the external connections to both Monaco 1 and 2 with contact cleaner and lightly greased the pins with dielectric grease.  Hopefully, this will alleviate my other phantom electrical issues like the wiper running without being switch on and the exhaust brakes causing the tach and speedo to go to zero and dash alarms.

Dennis Y

2004 HR Ambassador/2005 Jeep LJ Rubicon

Thanks Dennis!  It's pouring rain here today but I'll check that as soon as possible!  That sound very promising! 

34 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Joe

The lower board on the left is your ABS control module, it has a button where you cant test for fault codes.

The other board may be for your generator slide.

Here is a link to the VIP smart wheel trouble shooting guide

https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf

My Smart wheel control board was mounted behind the dash where the radio is. 

 

 

I bookmarked that manual.  Thanks!  I took out the drawer in the bottom of the console and didn't see any modules there.  Only access directly behind the radio is to remove the dash panel.  I didn't think to look under the dash behind the steering column.  Any chance it could be there?

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

When you say "lever", do you mean the touch button on top of the smart wheel or the turn signal lever/dimmer?

One more thing, if you have a remote for your door lock and if it used to flash the lights, does it still do that? That system should be bypassing your light switch and the low/high beam selector lever and should give an additional pointer.

It is strange that you do not have low nor high beams because they are pretty much independent with separate relays and fuses (breakers in my case). The only common points that I can see is the main light switch, low/high selector switch and a power bus feeding the fuses/breakers and possibly a ground connection at the lights and relays. If you can hear/feel the high beam relays click, I would go and check for power on the relay's hot side and the corresponding bus. If the relays don't click, I would try to confirm power at the headlight switch again and out of the switch through the low/high selector lever to the relays. You may not even have a low beam relay so that would point back to the switch and selector. All my headlight relays and breakers are in the front bay and the bus is fed from RRB.

But like I said, the remote control test and steering wheel flash button would bypass the switch and the selector. I don't know your coach so things could be different in some ways...

The turn signal/headlight flasher lever on the side of the steering column nor the flasher button on the SmartWheel does anything whether the headlight switch is on or off.  

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Joe,

I went through the Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide, there is a simple test to rule out a problem with the module.  There is also a wiring diagram at the end and from what I read if the smart wheel module is bad the lights won't work. 

My smart wheel controller is located behind the radio mounted to the floor, not easy to get to but doable.  I had a problem with mine, a wire had come loose and I had to repair a solder using a small battery operated gun. 

Where do I find that trouble-shooting guide?

Attached is a pic of two control boards in the bottom left corner of the outside front electrical compartment.  Any idea what these are for?  I can't find any reference to them in the owner's manual.  

38 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

An other thought, if you can flash the headlights from your Smart wheel (left top button on mine), that would also confirm ground presence at the bulb without going under the bus...at least that's how it works on ours.

I am not getting any DC voltage at the bulb socket, using a known good ground.   The lever on the SmartWheel to flash the lights doesn't do anything either.

28 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Joe,

There are other lamps that are included with the headlights. Are the headlights the ONLY ones not working?

The other bulbs in the headlight housing come on when the headlight switch is on. 

14 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Can you check at the bulb connector? Maybe you have positive 12v but no ground going to them? Could be, since it appears that both low and high beams  don't  work and they would be on different relays.

I think I checked that but not positive.  I've been working on this so long and trying so many different things that it's all running together in my old brain!  I'll check that today.  Thanks!  

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

When I start driving the RV I hit the windshield wiper on then off on the smart wheel, this engages the headlights and they stay on until I turn the coach off. 

Here's a link to the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide,

https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf

You might try going through it to see if it checks out.   If the other functions work it's probably not  your problem but worth checking.

Thanks Jim!  I bookmarked that for future reference!

I'm back.  Any other ideas?

Joe

Richard & Jim, that 25A fuse is good. The headlights don't work with the wipers operating.  I've got to be gone for an hour or so.  Will check back when I return!  Thanks!

Joe

Hi Richard!  Man, I feel like a real dummy!  I had never noticed those diagrams at the back of the owner's manual.  I had a copy of that wiring diagram that I got from a guy on IRV2, and had it blown up on a 36"x48" print, but sections of it were blurred and I couldn't follow it.  I'm still having a problem with this one.  I have 12VDC leaving the headlight switch on the dash but still no headlights.  Can you help me figure out what is between the switch and the headlights?

I saw a control board in the electrical compartment in front of the tire on the driver's side which has a headlight fuse and relay.  The fuse is good and I swapped the relay with another one of the same part number.  

Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated!  

Joe

My headlights have stopped working on our 2002 Windsor 40PBT.  I have been unable to find a wiring diagram.  Can anyone help with this?