Jeff H

10 hours ago, Land Lubber said:

Jeff, are you inquiring about the latest Soft Start that plugs into the pedestal between your shoreline cord? I think Martin & Chris are talking about the first 2 Soft Start devices that are hardwired into each AC unit.

Yes I am wondering about the one that plugs into the pedestal and will clamp any spikes in the RV.

Hello

I have been reading the posts regarding the Power Transfer Switches and the Autoformer with interest and have learned a lot.

I am wondering if the new SoftStartUp product has been used by anyone and could it be hardwired in some how?  Since it is only for 30 Amp service one would need a way to switch it in and out of the circuit.  Per haps the pole mounted version is easier just more susceptible to theft

https://softstartup.com/rvtravel/

10 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

I just got back from a 10 day trip into Oregon staying at 5 different locations. We used Starlink at every one with great success. The only place I thought we may have a problem was in the middle of Oregon in a river canyon with lots of trees and no cell service. I worked great. I'll include photos. I'm now leaving the router in the basement where I plug it in. When I want to set it up I just pull out enough cable to reach the top of my pole, crab the dish out of the box, plug it in, place it on the pole and extend the pole if necessary. I only had to extend the pole once on this trip. All of this takes less than 5 minutes.

I saw a Youtube video of a guy that mounted his securely to the top of his RV and uses it while moving. I'd be reluctant to do that because you lose the ability to locate the dish in different locations when necessary.

 

So do you leave the dish on the pole attached to the ladder to travel?

I cut a PVC pipe in half and fastened it to the wall above my propane tank that runs across the coach.  the propane tank is in the bay ahead of the wet bay and is open underneath so it is handy and any minor drips end up out side.

 Not the most elegant solution but you could move the receptacle from behind the fridge to below the mirror.  Then use an extension cord to run from the receptacle to the cabinet in the slide.  It could be hidden with a bit of wood trim if you want but the right colour cord would be hardly noticeable.  you would just have to be sure to unplug before retracting the slide.

I had a similar issue.  It was the relay in the front run bay.  Bottom left in your picture.  My picture is rotated 90 deg sorry .

Below is a picture is with the relay removed.

I emailed Thin Lite. Below is my request and their answer. i took a very quick look at the website she suggested and they have most if not all of Thin Lite's products as well as some LED replacement bulbs and strips.

My Message to Thin Lite:
Good Morning I have a 2006 Monaco Diplomat with 8 of your 746 fluorescent fixtures. One of the ballasts has stopped working. I have some questions:

1. is there a replacement ballast available and is the fixture field serviceable?

2. Are the ballasts used in 2005 electronic?

3. is there a direct replacement bulb that will work without rewiring?

5 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Jeff, Gary and Dennis.... EDITED 10:00 Eastern

I should have used the original DISCLAIMER that Colonel Duckwitz always quoted when giving information on our Motorhomes.  Monaco NEVER made two alike. Purchasing ruled and Monaco would switch vendors for a penny. In addition, Monaco used whatever was "available" when the MH was made....which could be 3 year old items....especially in the last 18 months before the bankruptcy. (see this for HISTORY....which was discussed MORE on the original site...  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaco_Coach_Corporation  )

Having said that, this is what I have found...

ThinLine and Optronics were two of the brands used. I THINK that Optronics bought out a company named LiteCo. There are posts on ETrailer about the "LiteCo 179" and it being 100% NON FIELD Serviceable. I tried to contact Optronics yesterday, but they were closed.....so here is what I know....as well as THINK...

LiteCo 179 was a fixture used by Monaco in "some?" 2005 models of HR. NOW....was that used in all 2005's and was that also used in both  Eugene, OR and Elkhart, IN? God ONLY knows. For a while, the same "model" was made in both and there were MAJOR differences...

Mine are Optronics 179 with a manufacturing date of late 2007. If you go here, this is shows the fixture from all sides.

https://rvinteriors.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/md/M361167/s7.pl  If you keep clicking on the picture, it will toggle between 6 or 7 views. That is what I have....mine were made within days of the one in the picture.

LOOK CAREFULLY at the construction, especially the bulb end caps and the back. This unit is NON SERVICABLE. There are requests for a replacement ballast on the various forums, but I did NOT find an answer. The bulb end caps are pop riveted (long ones) to a bracket. That bracket is then pop riveted to the back of the fixture. The Ballast is pop riveted to the back of the fixture. There is NOT ONE SCREW used in the assembly. Probably to prevent vibration loosening or maybe cheaper as the metal parts are stamped and punched and painted. The ballast is under the reflector. The reflector is held in place or "sandwiched" and does not appear to come apart...without drilling out the rivets from the back side.

There are also posts on other forums and the dimensions (back side fitted into roof) MAY not be compatible with later fixtures....but you might find an LED one that is totally surface mounted and does not have the fixture recessed into the ceiling. IF I get INFO from Optronics, I will post.

BOTTOM LINE....THEY WORK. I have 12 VDC Lights....NOT 115 VAC. Mine are Electronic, OR THAT IS MY ASSUMPTION.  One does NOT always watch and do high speed photography on a light fixture. I have TWO fixtures with older bulbs, which I keep turned off. The light comes ON instantly and then a few milliseconds later, it sort of "ramps up" and reaches full illumination. You have to watch it several times to pick up the transition. Therefore, I assumed mine are INSTANT ON. 

Having said that, I surveyed my three main home fluorescent fixtures. TWO, that I replaced, that were "Electronic" appear to be totally "instant on" in that there is no change in the light output. One is the same as in the MH. On with maybe 80% illumination and then instantly brightens to full power.

SO....the Optronics (179) that I have are the "two step".  I remember that some members in the older forum stated that if you allowed the tubes to go bad or flicker or have issues that could damage the ballast. True or NOT....I don't know. But, I decided NOT to push them and replaced them when they flickered or went out or had "internal burn marks".

OK....I MIGHT be living on borrowed time....but when I turn on the LED's they do NOT have the pause or two step operation. They light instantly to full power.

EDIT....

Called Optronics....they are "Researching" it and the techs may have been in HS when this was made. The lamp requirement is a F15T8. The T8 were 99%, from what I read, ELECTRONIC. There were two types....the Rapid (may have a pause as there is a preheat circuit) and the Instant Start. Here is a paper on that...

https://www.halcolighting.com/pdf/WP/T8-IS-Retrofit.pdf

Bottom line....Rapid Start gives you longer BULB LIGHT....as the INSTANT START gives you Shorter (higher voltage on start up....particularly bad where the light is turned on and off frequently). BOTH ARE ELECTRONIC. The GE Bulbs require an ELECTRONIC BALLAST....so if your fixtures have T8's in them....then "ODDS ARE", not guaranteed, that the GE's will work with them. 

NEXT THING....I did find out a bit more.  If you are NOT into adhesive arrays, then there is a "Direct" retrofit LED tube. It is about 2X the cost of the GE's....but MAY be available elsewhere cheaper. Here is the INSTALL for it....

http://m4sales.com/InstallT8.pdf

Basically, you direct wire your T8 sockets to 12 VDC and you keep the same style and internal "look". As I said, the install in the Optronics would be to do some "probing" of the terminals. You need ONE SIDE of the fixture to be GROUND (both pins on each tube socket or only one....they are internally jumpered). The OTHER side MUST BE 12 VDC and same....only ONE pin or BOTH. Obviously both the end tube sockets must be Parallel wired....and if you don't know what that means.....do some research before you disassemble and cut wiring.  The use of the side switch is optional, but I would do it.

SO>>>>>>as LONG as your fixtures WORK as in the Ballast is OK....then I would, PERSONALLY, do the tube if you want a "No hassle...no rewire" approach. BUT, if the ballast fails, then you have two options.....upgrade to the T8 Direct 12 VDC LED or go with the retrofit Array strips....

I think that is correct....but others might differ.....whatever works for you....as this did for me....

Hope this helps clear it up. My DW worked inside the MH cleaning after our trip. This was after I changed out ALL the ones that we used. She is ELATED....I guess that cool white and MORE illumination is more of a necessity as you get a little older...

CHECK ON YOUR BALLASTS....  IF your light fixture has a "T8 Bulb requirement", ODDS ARE...but NOT GUARANTEED, that you have an electronic ballast...Mine WORK. I KNOW that if you gutted the harness or the wiring that you could get to that is exposed, you would find a "Ground" or the Negative 12VDC. I THINK that the middle terminal of the switch MAY be the positive 12 VDC and the end is the switched. So, if you found both the positive and negative, then you could pull the tube and probably install the strips. I chose NOT to do that....but if I have issues, then that will be my next step.

Hope this clarifies some things. If anyone contacts Optronics and they can get the ballast info, that would be helpful....PLEASE POST...

Thanks,

 

Thanks Tom

So

This is the label on my living room, hall, and bed room. fixtures:

Below is the ballast/starter?  Is this an electronic ballast/starter I am more familiar with the old school "black boxes".  The black wire is 12VDC positive from the switch the white is 12VDVC negative.  I measured the voltage on a working light and there is 12v across black and white.  There is 12v across the blue and red at the bottom of the picture.  Interestingly in the living room which has 3 lights there was 8.5 volts with the other 2 lights on, 10.5 with 1 light on and 13.8 with no other lights on.  I was surprised by the voltage drop.  One fixture wasn't working and the voltage across the red and blue at the bottom would start at 10.9 and then drop to almost nothing in 10 seconds.  So I will go out on a limb and say the ballast/starter is shot. 

So Tom, simply stated you have 120VAc bulbs in 12VDC fixtures (likely with electronic ballast) and they work.  Out of curiosity would a 120VAC fixture's ballast use a transformer to change the voltage to 12VDC? 

At that price it is worth a try at the very least.  Now to find them in Canada.

On 8/22/2021 at 3:28 PM, Tom Cherry said:

We have used the Camelot for almost 2 years equivalent....so it has not set in storage that much. I replaced some of the Fluorescent Tubes in 2017 and I knew that more were probably starting "age". In the OLD site, there was quite a bit of discussion that if you kept nursing along the OEM Fluorescent fixtures and the bulbs were aging....that had some impact on the expected life of the ballasts. 

There was also a lot of discussion about the RFI (EMF? or NOISE) associated with the Fluorescent tubes and their impact on the electronics.  Specifically the "clock" or chip that drives the Intellitec EMS as well as some of the 5 button TStats....and a LOT more problems on the Intellitec Multiplex circuitry....whether the full blown version on the Dynasties and above or the hybrid in the Camelots.

We were boondocking at a Cabelas in RIchmond and had noticed some failures.  For the record, we have 3 18" (2 bulb) fixtures up front in the living-galley area. I keep the front one OFF and we only use the center and rear one. There are also 3 fixtures in the bedroom. One 18" and two 12" ones. I had elected to only run one of the 12's and the 18 as that was way more than enough light.  I did not mention the Bathroom or the "hallway".  I have decided to DO THEM as well as the 18" also....

Bottom line....I did some research....and also did some replacing.....so this is MY experience and MY thoughts....others will differ and that is what makes us unique.  I am quite capable of rewiring or replacing or removing the fixtures or the ballasts and installing the LED Arrays. However, I had also done a major project for the church and learned some things from the Duke Energy experts....as well as a buddy who came across an interesting LED feature....not on ALL LED tubes, but more common now than before.

If you have 120 VAC Fluorescent fixtures and have had them for a while, odds are, you MIGHT have had to install a ballast. I have installed 4 ballasts at home as I do not want to have to rehang or find an equivalent fixture....the DW LOVES the kitchen one....so nurse it along.

With the newer technology LED Tubes, you can USE your existing Ballast....OR you can wire around it and feed the LED's 120 VAC line voltage. If you google "remove ballast for LED conversion", you will find many articles....all are simple and you can actually follow the color codes if you don't quite understand the schematic.  SO, that will be my NEXT replacement.....LED's running off Line Voltage at home.

OK....back on track.  There are TWO types of LED's for RV/Marine.  One is advertised as a 12 VDC or Ballast type. From what I read on Amazon, the light output from 12 VDC is reduced. The ratings were not that good. I read NO MORE and passed on this option.  DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH if that if your cup of tea.

Then, I found that the GE 12" tubes were priced at Lowes at the same or cheaper than Amazon and they are BULK Shipped and not thrown into a box and banged all over the country. So, I bought 4 of them. I decided to use the TWO 12" fixtures in the Bedroom and then switch off the 18" one.  We have the "Daylight" tubes....some original and some from 2017. The ones that I put in are "adjustable" in that you have THREE different temperatures....they come as COOL WHITE...which matches the LED's that I used when I converted the puck and socket lights to LED many years ago. The map lights are the only incandescent and I can't get the cover off....

I was PLEASANTLY surprised.....the two (2 bulb) 12 LED fixtures with Cool White put out MORE than a "smidge" (subjectively) than the single 18" and the one 12" (both are 2 tube fixtures).  DW is elated. MORE light....and she is now moving from the OMG, I want daylight to "Hey, CW is cool".

Here is the link to the Lowes 12" tube that I bought. They popped in easily and are starting instantly....so no issues.... BTW....the Lowe's price on the Fluorescent is $9 and the LED is only $13....  I think that the LED tubes for our MH used to be about twice that....but I might be wrong.... I am now saving 4 Amp Hours of my batteries....WOO HOO!....every little bit helps....

https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Color-Correct-Technology-8-Watt-EQ-12-in-Daylight-Linear-LED-Tube-Light-Bulb/5000762909

I think, from watching, that the old ballasts will do an INSTANT start on the new LED's and there is certainly NO Hesitation.

BTW....  I GOOFED.  I was checking the "switch" on a tube and realized there is a TOP and a BOTTOM to the tube....there is a label on the tube, but I failed to turn them all UP. WOW....with all of them turned DOWN and shining....it is MUCH brighter. Pay attention to the label side and it should go UP.

Hope this is of interest....

Tom

Are your fluorescent fixtures 120Vac  or 12 VDC?  According to Lowe's website the bulbs are 120VAC.

Diplomat, interested

The switch moved in both directions freely, little square did not seem to make a difference

17 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

What about any other 12 VDC powered devices, are they not working at the same time you lose the ceiling lights?

The lights going "flickering" was the first sign my Salesman relay was failing.  Does the ceiling fan stop as well?

Thank you to all for the heip

If it wasn't for this site I wo.uld have been lost

10 hours ago, wamcneil said:

I think the circled item is a circuit breaker. 
The latching relays aren’t meant to be constantly energized. It gets a momentary signal from the switch and I think it works life a big clicker in a ballpoint pen. Click on, click off. 
The purpose of that dangling little circuit board is to interrupt signal from the switch  in case it stays on. So the solenoid won’t heat up.
I wonder if their hacked paper-clip bypass finally killed the coil and that’s why it stopped working. 

Edit: oh, wait. I think that bare wire is actually supposed to be there! Now I’m curious  I’ll look at mine later. There are multiple variations of that KIB latching relays. Some have the protection circuit board, others not. II think maybe the relay failed and was replaced with an unprotected version and they moved the protection board over.  
Where does the red wire go that leaves that dangling circuit board?  I think it should go to the fuse and the protected version doesn’t have a bare wire there.  Like the picture on this page:

https://rvpartshop.ca/product/sanitation/51561-kib-enterprises-latching-relay-lr9806cbip.html

Cheers

Walter

The red wire went to one side of the fuse the bare to the other.  The purple went to the coach

i removed the relay and put all 3 wires on the same lug.  See the picture with the circled item

8 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Jeff,

That relay is a LATCHING relay not a CONSTANT Duty relay. So the solenoid is never energized 100% of the time. It is only energized to either Latch the contacts ON or energized to UN-Latch the contacts OFF. If you don't have ANY 12 VDC power to the house then the relay contacts have failed.

The wiring that you have is exactly the way it came from the factory. Either replace the relay or bypass the entire relay.

The item you have circled looks like an Auto-resetting Circuit Breaker.

I bypassed it.  The relay is missing in the picture with the circle.  i put all 3 wires to the same lug

8 minutes ago, ok-rver said:

I found the high current relay here at a "lower" price.

https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/kib-electronics-battery-disconnect-latching-relay-lr9806c-bip

It shows a picture of the distribution board so pretty sure it would be correct. At $60, I would replace mine if it was not working. I like turning off all the stuff it turns off with one push of a button. As per Dr4Film, this latches. When energized, there is probably a mechanical gizmo that closes the contacts and holds them closed without voltage to the coil until the coil is momentarily reenergized and the gizmo allows the contacts to open. The link above states the circuit board breaks the voltage to the input after a few seconds in case the low current house switch gets hung up and continues to supply current. This keeps the pull in coil from burning up.

The device circled appears to be like the second item on this page. This one is 50 amps, that may be enough to supply this distribution board.

https://cdctelecom.com/hylun-Amp-A-A-Circuit-Breaker-Fuse-V-22145/Electrical-Equipment-&-Supplies/

The others on the page have trip levers and state they are resettable. I do not see a reset on this one. 

Thanks Mike.  if the switch inside did anything I might consider replacing the relay.  The switch has never worked.  it is a momentary switch so it makes sense it would have been a latching relay

For what it is worth, on my 06 Diplomat the annunciator was just above the steering column towards the firewall.  I had to remove the cover from around the steering column to find it. There were several wires going to it.

10 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Frankly, that relay, if it is the right one, is a Latching Type relay which is far better than the continuous duty type relays. They fail less often than the latter.

If you prefer to have it function the way it should I would replace it otherwise just tie the wires together from each side or if you have enough wire and lug space put all of the wires on on lug. Then disconnect the control wires, tape them up separately and zip-tie them in a safe location out of the way.

Richard

It was the right one. i thought it had been bypassed because the switch inside never worked.  If you look at the lug on the right y ou can see a bare wire going from the lug up to the fuse at the top rt of the relay.  The other side of the fuse is the red going to the pcb on one of the 2 small lugs.  The purple wire goes put of the panel, i assume to the switch.  So I am thinking that instead of bypassing the relay they just rigged it so it was always energized.

Below is what I did.  What is the circled item?

 oops 

8 hours ago, Steve P said:

@Jeff H / others.  I do not have this problem, and I hope I never do. Just in case, how did you find the relay, how did you know it corresponded to the salesman switch, and where is the relay?

Hi Steve

I thought it might be the relay because i has been discussed here a number of times.  All my 120VAC circuits had power, none of the 12VDC circuits had power.  The inverter was charging the batteries but the EMS was dark.  So I knew there was something up with the 12V

The relay was in the front run bay in the fuse panel lower LH corner (yours may be different but should be similar size and have 4ga wire).  I had seen pictures of it before and when I checked for 12V power it was only on 1 side.  I jumped the lugs on the relay and the lights in the coach came on.

Hello

Last night all the 12v "flickered" almost like a brown out.  This morning everything 12V was not working.  anything that needs 120 (microwave, fridge, outlets) was working.

I assume it is the Salesman Relay.  The switch at the door has never worked so i assumed it was bypassed.  Attached are pictures of the switch and what I think is the relay.  Am I looking at the right thing?There is 12V at the right side of the relay and 0V at the left side.  Can I just move a wire from one side to the other?

21 hours ago, Endeavor to RV said:

On my '03 Endeavor I turn the key to the left, accessory position, to dump air and use hydraulic levelers. No alarm. Perhaps your rig will work this way?

I tried that, mostly because I know I can dump the air in the accessory position and would feel like an idiot for not having tried to level. The leveler does not have power in the accessory  position. Perhaps a new wiring project.

16 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

I guess this makes perfect sense for coaches with Hydraulic Jacks to dump all air first which usually takes a long time to drain both tanks and air bags too, then level, or is it not necessary when you have jacks?

Never had a coach with jacks so I don't know what the procedure is. I guess once the jacks are in place the air bags are out of play.

I do know that Monaco ALWAYS recommends deploying slides at Ride Height then leveling. Does that mean that once you activate the leveling control panel the system will dump all air FIRST then deploy the jacks to level?

Just wondering....

If I am close to level I will not dump.  If the jacks need "room to work" I will dump.  of course as soon as you lift with the jack the ride height valves kick in and star dumping air trying to lower the coach.  They continue to drain until the bags are empty but not the tanks whether the key is on or not.

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

Jeff,

I would think that having the ignition key turned OFF would accomplish that task such that the air bags do NOT refill until the ignition key is turned back on.

I wonder if there is a missing or faulty ignition lockout relay that is allowing the air bags to raise when they are not supposed to.

You are correct but to level or move the coach I need the key on.  So to level I have to reduce the air pressure to the point it won't raise the coach which is just below when the alarm comes on.  I suppose one could wire the leveling so it did not require the ignition to be on.

My 06 Diplomat, with hydraulic leveling dumps the air bags but they will refill if the system pressure is high enough.  it would be nice to have a way to lower the coach without having to reduceair pressure tothe point of the low air alarm going off.

20 hours ago, top flight said:

2007 HR Vacationer Diesel.  Went to fill my freshwater tank and it did not vent, actually caused the floor to start to rise.  Fortunately shut off and drained tank, no damage to floor. Can anyone tell me where the air vent is located or could this be something else?

It caused the floor of the RV to rise?  Isn't the black and grey tank above the fresh water tank?  That means the fresh water tank expanded enough to crush the holding tanks, which are vented, and push the floor up?  Or do you mean the top of the water tank started to rise?

7 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Jeff,

I have a 2006 Diplomat and the mirrors on mine are definitely Ramco. I had a tanker truck hit mine and break the arm about 4-5 years ago; called Ramco and ended up removing the mirror and shipping it to them. They replaced the parts,  put humpty dumpty back together and shipped it back in about a week. I was very pleased with the service and the cost of repairs. 
 

https://www.ramco-eng.com/

Address: 2805 Frederic Dr
Elkhart, IN 46514

Phone: (574) 266-1455
Toll Free: (800) 321-4819
Fax: (574) 266-1420

 

 

Thanks Scotty

I will get in touch with them

7 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

Poynting.  Google it.

x 2 with a Pepwave Max Transit Cat 18 LTE Advanced Pro Router from Techno RV

Our first trip with the new set up starts tomorrow.   I had nothing before this, just relied on the phone or laptop antenna so I hope there is some improvement.  I will let you know.