dandick66

20 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Hopefully you'll get 8 non-stinkers!

My first pair of M-144's stunk something awful when warm!

I had the same experience with the Toyo’s - smelled like a barnyard.  I thought I drove through something on the way home from the tire place.  Fortunately, the smell went away, but it took well over a year.

Ok.  Here is another idea.  The attached schematic is from Navistar, not Monaco.  I’m assuming you have the Maxxforce 10 engine. Look at the top 2 relays I’ve circled in red.  These relays are located in the RRB next to the battery tray (photo attached).  Try turning both sets of batteries off and then disconnect the connection to the 2 most inboard relays.  Then turn the batteries back on.  The engine won’t start, but I’m curious to see if the gauges cycle and everything turns off properly when you turn the key off.
Those relays are for the ECM power and ACT power.  I know for a fact that if the ECM relay isn’t working properly the engine will shut down.  I can’t remember if the gauges 0 out or not.
Let us know the results. 

1 hour ago, Bigdogracing said:

Once the house batteries are turned on the dash automatically comes on without the key, even being in the coach. Also, that behavior doesn’t shut off until the house. Batteries are disconnected so it’s something on the house side. I’m just not sure how to figure it out, we’ve changed all the relays that we can see all the fuses all the easy stuff.

Is everything “normal” (coach starts and engine stops) when you turn the house batteries off and leave the chassis batteries on? To me, that’s a critical step in troubleshooting this problem.  

8 hours ago, Bigdogracing said:

Ok, that makes sense on the F17- sorry you had to dumb it down for me.  I feel like I am on info overload here as the days go by!

The relay that shuts down the engine is the third from the left on the top row.  The gauges did reset when that was done as well- in fact, that is the only way to reset them. 

I am not smart enough to know how to fully test the ignition wires since they are not individual and feed into a plastic harness.  CAn you help me know how to test the ignition wires and then the ignition itself?  Google isn't helpful with these RV ignitions that I could find anyway.  

Everyone here is so helpful and I appreciate you all!

If you remove the dash pad/cover you can see the ignition switch.  There are 4 wires.  As I posted on Saturday, looking down at the switch, the top wire/connector is battery and has 12 volts at all times.  To the left of that wire/connector is the “run” terminal.  It should have 12 volts when you turn the key on.  I would remove that wire and see if you have 12 volts on the terminal with the ignition switch off.  If you do, I would say you ignition switch is bad.

30 minutes ago, Bigdogracing said:

Correct, putting in the spare relays did not change anything as far as that goes. However, I still have that one fuse slot in that relay cluster that is not getting any power from the board. 

I will try to remove the ignition with the engine running and what that does. One other thing- I would think that the engine is controlled by the chassis batteries and not the house batteries, but when trying to shut it off, I turn off chassis battery power first, the engine stays running- it only shuts off when house battery shut off is engaged - is that odd?

If you’re talking about F17, it only has power with ignition off.  Since your ignition won’t turn off, you won’t see power at that fuse.
 

What relay did you remove to shut down the engine?  Did the gauges return  to zero when you did that ?

Did you test for power at the switch and wires as I suggested on Saturday?  If so, what were the results.  You need to start methodically troubleshooting the problem.  Start at the ignition switch.  As I stated before, it is readily accessible.  

1 hour ago, Bigdogracing said:

Yes our wiring is the same. The behavior is the same whether the key is out of it in it or in the on position the only difference is when you turn the engine on, but then when we disconnect it either by removing a relay or turning the batteries off to shut off the engine the gauges all stay the same and do not zero out. The gauges do not go to zero by any turn of the key.

we are going to go tap on them as you suggested. One more thing to mention is under that VCM relay one of those fuses is not getting any power when we use the test light to test it. A mechanic told us that should not make a difference with our issue that we’re having now, but I’m suspicious of that.

Where is rear fuel solenoid exactly? You know the engine is not easily accessible. Thank you

It looks like F17 is connected to the NC output of RL4.  Since it’s NC, maybe it only get 12 volts when it’s open.  
Can you get up under the dash with a test light?  With the switch off, you should only have power on 1 lug.  
 

I just went out and checked mine.  F17 has 12 volts with the ignition switch off.  When the switch is on, it drops to 0.  
I lifted the dash pad and the ignition switch is readily accessible.  There are only 4 wires on it.  Looking from the top, the top terminal is battery and should have 12 volts at all times.  The terminal to the left is ignition and should get 12 volts when you turn the switch on.  Have you tested that?  Alternatively, you could pull all 4 wires and check continuity between the top and left connector.  Switch off should show and open, switch on should show a short.  

I have a 2012 Diplomat, so more than likely the wiring is the same.  
When you get the engine to shut off with the disconnect, what happens when you just turn the key to run?  (Of course you would need to re-energize cut off switch first).  Do you get the gauges to swing, etc?  IF you turn the key back to off, do the gauges go to “0”?  
If it continues to run in the off position, I would leave the switch off and go to the FRB and tap on the top 4 relays with a plastic screwdriver handle and see if the engine stops.  VCM (the top right relay) is more than likely the culprit.

I’ve attached photos of my FRB and label.  I feel your pain about getting anyone to look at it.  It seems like no one wants to touch these things.  

FWIW, as far as the u-joint and yoke removal, whether you are going to do it yourself or take it somewhere, I would spray some type of rust buster on the threads.  Do it every couple of days before you start the project or take it in.  Also, you might want to scribe the parts before you take it in.  That way you can verify that the shop lined it up properly, before you drive it and feel the vibration.  
As far as the rust buster, I like to make my own.  I used a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF.  For acetone, I just buy a small bottle of nail polish remover (make sure it says acetone on it) and the cheapest ATF/power steering fluid.  This stuff works great l. 

4 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I discovered that the last time I removed a sensor.

If the stem is at the 5:00 position, I can lay on the ground with my face pressed against the sidewall, and just barely reach around the tire to remove/ replace the sensor!

Glamping at it's finest 😆!!

Your description is much more eloquent and accurate than mine.  If my arms were a couple of feet longer it wouldn’t be a problem.  

15 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Those would work, but, I'd rather not introduce another possible failure point when they are not needed!

9 hours ago, Martinvz said:

I agree with Ben. That is what I had and I am happy that I eliminated these 180 degree extenders. Did they work? Absolutely and no failure on the 2 that I had. Still, these rotated a little and I was only 80% satisfied with them. 

I tried these on my Diplomat and had the same problem as Martin - they rotated.  However, one of mine had a slow leak when it rotated.  I finally took them off.  Now I just position the tag wheel so I can stick my hand through from aft of the tag or between the tag and drive wheels and remove the TPMS sensor if I need to add air.  Kind of a pain, but I rarely have to do it. 

On 2/5/2024 at 9:32 AM, Dr4Film said:

I received my Progressive RV Insurance renewal in January for the March 1st renewal. OMG!!!

The renewal bill came in at $2877 for a full pay discounted rate.

SO, this month, I made up a list of 8 RV insurance companies to call for their current rate do do some comparison shopping.

I only made three calls before settling on one company in particular that writes insurance for my state, Florida.

My first call was to RVer Insurance Exchange. Second call was to National General Insurance and the third call was to RV America. They happen to be in that very same order from the top on my list. I never called the other 5 companies.

RV Insurance Exchange quote came in close to the Progressive as they were quoting Progressive.

National General came in around $2300.

However, my third call was the "CHARM". That was to RV America which landed me at a brokers office in Tennessee.  They quoted me a rate of $899 for one year with a company called Auto Owners Insurance. All three quotes were for basically the same level and type of coverage so as not to mix apples with oranges. The gentleman on the phone remarked that the state of Florida was only writing RV insurance policies with three companies, Progressive, National General and Auto Owners. Don't know if that statement is true or not.

Well, this is a no brainer. My progressive policy will be cancelled at midnight February 29th and my new policy with Auto Owners Insurance company begins at 12:01 am March 1st. 

Richard, I feel your pain.  My Progressive went from $1284 to $1950.  It too, is a Florida policy.  I searched around a lot and couldn’t find any great savings, so I stuck with them.  I will definitely check out RV America.  
My Progressive is through USAA, who I’ve been with for over 40 years.   My auto policies have skyrocketed, too.  No claims, just price increases.  There is no doubt in my mind that we (policyholders) are paying for all the money they didn’t make during COVID.   If you recall, they gave “discounts “ on auto policies since people weren’t driving.   Most of them paid their employees even though they weren’t working.  Ok, I’m done ranting…

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Use either battery. Assuming you have 50A, use the house.  Clip the hookup wire to the positive on the battery.  Run the other end and clip to the Negative VOM lead. Now, put your Positive lead on the stud where the positive 4/0 attaches….or the feed into the Buss.  Have someone start the Genny.  Read the VOM.  LOOK AT THE VOLTAGE.  You should NOT see more than a tenth…DROP….ZERO is the value.  

Next…..put the clipped lead (one that was on the battery), on the stud that you just measured….find the next connection….rinse and repeat.  You will find, assuming there is a voltage drop at a connection or in a cable WHERE the problem is.  Otherwise, it is a guess and folks do all sorts of rewiring….some work.  I did this.  Did not find my bad switch.  It vibrated and was good sometimes and bad others

I should only have to measure 2 locations since the cable runs from the rear bus directly to the generator.  I’ll clean/double check the grounds, too.  
Yes, I do have the 10kw.  
I’ll try to get this checked out before I head out of town this week.  Otherwise, it will be sometime next month before I can do any troubleshooting.

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Let's go through this again.  Maybe I gave TOO MUCH information.  The issue has always been on the Dynasty and UP.  OR AT LEAST THE BULK of the complaints and they were on the 10's and 12.5KW's.  NOW if you go back to the prints for the Dynasty, there is a 2/0 Cable from the FRT RUN BAY "Stud" to the Genny. THAT is where the problem is.  The solution, for most Dynasty and UP owners is to FIRST replace that 2/0 Cable.  Some have added a battery and then actually RUN larger cables to the Genny.  YES, of course if you run larger cables to the Genny and have an up front battery, it WILL not see the Voltage Drop. 

Again....this is MEMORY....but I DID check the Dynasty....YES, a 4/0 cable....the a puny 2 gauge cable to the Genny.  DUH.....run a 2/0 will definitely improve it....but one probably does NOT need a 4/0...but COULD.  The OTHER thing....you have GOT to also upgrade the GROUND cable....so it sized the same. Sounds simple...but sometimes the simplest, and yes...it happens to me...is NOT obvious....especially if one has their mind made up.

THAT is the solution for the Dynasty.

NOW...as to @dandick66 YES.  Monaco was inconsistent....GOD FORBID....in their wiring, especially large cables. See the above, for the DYNASTY.  Your Diplomat ain't like the Dynasty.  SO, YES, run a 2/0 from the Chassis Stud (4/0 if I read correctly). Next up.  UPGRADE the Negative. 

NOW, as Ben Pointed OUT..... You are JUMPERING your Banks.  NOT GOOD.  SO, back to your situation.

I would do this first...and then run the NEW cable from the FRB Stud...It is a 4/0 going in.  The shorter 2/0 will be better than the long 2/0...  PLUS you have a CRANKING battery, NOT a deep cycle...so your Chassis should work better.

MY QUESTION (Hunch and BEEN THERE)...  If you saw NO improvement....that here is an issue somewhere.  MY Genny starting issue was NOT in the cables. 

Remove BOTH Negative Ground studs behind the Battery box (one for Chassis and one for House). Clean thoroughly. 

Do the SAME for the Genny Negative up front. We do NOT have your prints...so I am ASUMMING that you have a 2/0 GROUND.  Never trust a GROUND.  Clean it.  Folks have spent considerable time chasing issues...and ran new grounds.  OPPS...turned out the FIRST Front Chassis Ground was "tainted".  They LOOK FINE. My Genny would NOT start.  It was simple. The House had a corroded (you could NOT see it), but I did a lot of OHM Measurements...and found the bad ground on the House.  Took 5 minutes to fix.  NO ISSUES since 2015..

OK...if that doesn't work....put in the new cable from up front.

I would also tell you to check the buss where the 2/0 cable is hooked up.  YOU NEVER KNOW...

You are GOOD to GO...

 

@96 EVO

Ben, I think these will be combined...but YES, you are right.  I just pulled our prints again.

I think the solution to your issues, assuming you still have them...and also assuming the MONACO wired our MH's the same.  We ONLY have a 1/0 Cable from the BACK to the front Genny. 

BUT, we have TWO 2/0 Cables (each has a 200 Amp Fuse).  If you wanted to simply rewire yours, then there are TWO suggestions...

First...simple.  I would CHECK the Ground on the House Bank, as the Chassis Bank as well.  A bad ground on the House (STUD) shut off my Genny. 5 minutes to fix.  BUT...

If you want the optimum.  Then run a NEWS 2/0 cable from the FRONT Chassis Stud to the Genny.  Also replace the 1/0 Ground with a 2/0.  THAT should easily fix it.

NOW...the ULTIMATE.  Purchase a Blue Seas Battery Selector Switch. They make one that allows OFF, BATT 1, BATT 2 or BOTH.  Put that sucker in BOTH....if it don't start....your Starter needs some looking at. Personally, I think there is a high resistance connection...and a swap to the FRB and using a 2/) cable will fix it....unless you DO find a Ground Stud issue.

That's my take....unsolicited...but seem logical after I pulled my High Current Print...  It sure works great for my Hydraulic slide.  I have it on a selector switch....and I DID find that the House Battery Switch has a "wee tiny issue". That is the HALF volt drop I have chased for years. It will be fixed...and then if I ever have an issue....pour both banks to the hydraulics...

I think I need to better explain what I have and what I want to do.  My generator is connected to the RRB bus (chassis batteries) with a 2/0 cable.  There is another 2/0 cable running from that bus to the FRB.  I was thinking of running a new 2/0 cable from that stud on the FRB to the generator.  I would then have 2, 2/0 cables running from the RRB chassis bus.  The banks would not be connected unless I pushed the boost switch.  

Ok, I know you’re not supposed to beat a dead hose, but I came up with an idea for the sluggish generator cranking.

For background, the cable running to the generator is 2/0.  It was set up to start from the house batteries.  I moved the cable to the chassis batteries and saw no difference in the starting.  Tom mentioned about running a cable from the 4/0 FRB stud.  However, my coach has a 2/0 running from the chassis batteries to the FRB and a 2 gauge (not 2/0) running from the house batteries to the FRB.

I considered adding another battery just for starting the generator, then I came up with this thought.  What if I ran a 2/0 cable from the 2/0 stud on the FRB to the generator?  Then I would have 2, 2/0 cables for starting the generator.  It would be cheaper and less maintenance than adding a separate starting battery.  
 

Thoughts and comments appreciated. 

3/4 inch heater hose (automotive) will slip over the 5/8 PEX.  You can use hose clamps to secure it.  I’m sure it can take the heat of the Aquahot.  

I’ve been getting the Westwood F100-10 from Home Depot online for about $10.50.  Works fine. 

I am a firm believer in oil sampling.  I ran my 2012 Diplomat for 17,000 miles and 5 years before an oil change.  I religiously submitted samples at 2,500 miles as the lab specified.  At the last sample, the lab said to drive 1,000 miles and submit a sample.  I decided that was a good enough reason to change the oil.

I now have a good baseline and will submit a sample at 5,000 miles and see what the lab says. The bottom line is that the recommended change interval doesn’t necessarily need to be followed as long as you test the oil.

So sorry to hear of Ray’s passing.  I always enjoyed reading his posts.  RIP.

2 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Good point, I think it was assumed that there is pressure in the tanks. Pressure switches need pressure, I don't however need to have ignition ON for brake lights to work.

Now you have me thinking… I don’t know if I had pressure in the tanks or not when I made the discovery.  I will check it when I do my next fast cruise at the end of the month.  

BLUF - Start your engine and see if the brake lights work.  
 

I have a 2012 Diplomat, so the wiring, etc is similar.  I couple of months ago I was trying to locate the connector for the auxiliary brake controller.   I found it and started testing the wires.  Everything checked out except for the brake light input.  I couldn’t figure it out, then I discovered that the motorhome had to be running for the brake lights to work.  I was surprised at this, since the brake lights come on when you press the pedal on “regular cars” whether the key is on or off.  
 

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Dan, if it's regarding the location of the rear air tank, Monaco moved the rear air tank up front, just behind the front air tank, on some models. 

Mine included!

Ben,

I quoted the wrong post.  I meant to quote Tom’s post about greasing the tail shaft and covering the hole.  I’ve never done that.  BTW, I wish my rear tank was in a different location.  It is a real PITA to get to.  

On 11/26/2023 at 8:20 PM, jacwjames said:

On 2002 Windsor the rear air tank is right above the drive shaft.  There are several different fittings on the tank

Attached is the air system for Monaco rigs, it matched up pretty closely with my rig.  You can tell the front tank because it has a WET & DRY side so the other will be the rear. 

I would be surprised if you were completely missing a fitting/part on the tank as you'd loose all the air but you might have a line off one of the PPV valves and it wouldn't loose air. 

 

Good Luck

AIR SYSTEM Dynasty and Windsor.pdf 1007.51 kB · 23 downloads

I learned something new today.  Well, I guess I’ll need to crawl back under there and re-do it.

Dave,    
I still have the Maxxforce 10.  I have 43k miles on mine.  I’ve had pretty good luck with my engine.  Had to change the ACM (after treatment control module) and this March I blew the turbo to CAC hose coming back from Florida.  
I would love to hear what you did to your engine to make it run better.

Dan

I just got an email from Micro-Air for their Black Friday sale.  15 percent off from 11/23 to 12/13.  Code is CMEASY23

Happy shopping!!

I don’t know if your 2011 is wired the same as my 2012, but here are photos of the RRB and FRB.  Note the DRL relay socket is circled in red.