No power to mirrors--2011 Camelot

[vanwill52]

Trying to help a friend.  2011 Camelot.  BOTH mirrors inoperative with the mirror control switch.  I pulled the connector from the back of the switch and there appears to be no power going to the switch.  Simple, right?--just a fuse.  But I haven't located the fuse yet.  He has complete wiring diagrams, but curiously there is no listing of all fuses in the front run bay.  I'm checking them one at a time now.  Anyone know which number of fuse it is?  Thanks!

[Trinidaddave]

On my 05 Safari Gazelle mirror motor is 16 mirror heat is 17.  Both are15 amp maximum 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

Trying to help a friend.  2011 Camelot.  BOTH mirrors inoperative with the mirror control switch.  I pulled the connector from the back of the switch and there appears to be no power going to the switch.  Simple, right?--just a fuse.  But I haven't located the fuse yet.  He has complete wiring diagrams, but curiously there is no listing of all fuses in the front run bay.  I'm checking them one at a time now.  Anyone know which number of fuse it is?  Thanks!

Talked to Van.  He found the Fuse (51) which is on a print he does not have.  This fuse blows due to a dead short somewhere. He now has prints and info and is chasing the dead short....  Let him work on it....the problem, most likely,  is a dead short to the mirror switch (Power) as well as the Driver's Side Overhead (Map) Light.  IF anyone with a Camelot has had an overhead Driver's light issue.....please respond.

Thanks,

[vanwill52]

Thanks to Tom Cherry for all the info and wiring diagrams.

Solution was not perfect, but got the mirrors working again.

As Tom said, Fuse 51 feeds TWO items--Mirror directional control switch AND "Driver side reading light".  In the case of this 2011 Camelot, there is some sort of direct-to-ground short in the reading light circuitry. WHETHER OR NOT the multi-pin connector is plugged into the mirror control switch, as soon as a fuse is plugged into the Fuse 51 slot, it instantly blows.

BTW, Tom Moore's coach does not have the normal gooseneck map light like many coaches.  His "reading light" is a puck light directly over the driver's seat.  There is an identical puck light over Paula's chair (also called a "reading light"), but it is controlled by a rocker switch and works perfectly.  (I joked with Tom, "You don't need a map light.  You have the most fabulous navigator in the world in the passenger seat.  Paula is absolutely AMAZING at navigating, determining which fuel stations have enough turnaround room, where is cheapest fuel, what campgrounds have the best looking lots, can make reservations on the fly...AMAZING NAVIGATOR!!!!)

But I digress.  I removed the "driver's reading light" (the puck light over the driver's seat).  LED bulb was OK.  Fixture was OK.  Both connections ohmed out correctly.  I was running out of time, because Tom and Paula had to leave early tomorrow morning.  I ended up cutting the "Battery" wire (nicely marked on the wire by Monaco) going TO the multi-pin plug that connects to the mirror control switch and terminating it with fully insulated connector, so it could not short out against anything.   To the other end of the "Battery" wire (coming FROM the connector that plugged into the mirror control switch), I connected to a fused wire attached directly to the "chassis" lug on the printed circuit board in the front run bay.  So, essentially, I added a SEPARATE +12VDC feed to the mirror control switch that is ALWAYS ON, and not controlled by the ignition switch, but on a fused circuit, and NOT feeding the "driver side reading light".

Yeah, that was the "slacker's way out", but I did not think I could find the short in the "driver's reading light" quickly enough to let Tom and Paula leave on schedule early the next morning...and controlling the mirrors was much more important than the "driver side reading light".  Maybe one day I'll search out the short, but for now, the #51 fuse slot has NO fuse installed, and the mirror control switch is fed +12VDC from a separate fused line.

As always, thanks for the extremely rapid response to a Monacoer in need (Tom Cherry actually called me on the phone to give me extra info, then emailed me diagrams I did not have).  IRV2 is a great resource...but it pales in comparison to the help you can get from fellow Monacoers for a Monaco-specific problem.  "Bill D's Monacoers" is the BOSS for all things Monaco.  Thank you Dave Pratt and Scotty Hutto.  You guys keep this site priceless.  And thanks to Tom Cherry for the personal attention.

[vanwill52]

THANK YOU, MYRON TRUEX!!!

I also need to thank Myron Truex, probably the greatest 12VDC guru on this forum.  Long ago, Myron suggested I make up two 60 foot "test cables".  One for NEGATIVE, and one for POSITIVE.  With HUGE alligator clips on one end to attach DIRECTLY to a house or chassis battery terminal.  Each one FUSED, of course.  Whenever a problem baffles you, it's always a great help to have a "jumper cable" you can attach to the negative or positive of the chassis or house batteries when troubleshooting and connect to your VOM.  With those cables, there will never be any of those moments when you wonder, "Do I have a TRUE +12VDC" or "Do I have a TRUE GROUND" when you are troubleshooting.  I now have TWO cable reels.  One has a BLACK lead I use for POSITIVE and one has a WHITE lead I use for GROUND.

How important can that be?  Well, Monaco used an unusual method of energizing electrical devices.  Instead of a device having a solid, constant, never-changing GROUND terminal, they would instead supply the POSITIVE line to the device and switch the GROUND lead to energize the device.  This has some relevance and efficacy in aircraft, which do the same type of electrical switching.  I cannot say I understand it, but that is the way that Monaco did it.  So when you are troubleshooting an electrical problem, you may or may not have a "true +12VDC" or a "true GROUND" when you think you have one or the other.  Myron's method eliminates all doubt.

As a further testament to Myron's way of troubleshooting, when my ECM failed, the very capable young man at an independent diesel heavy truck shop who did the troubleshooting on my ECM used a 5A FUSED wire much like Myron suggested.  He used it to determine if a ground was TRULY a low-resistance "good" ground.  He would connect one alligator clip to the negative battery terminal and touch his probe to the "supposedly good ground" he was suspicious of.  If the fuse blew, he knew the ground was not solid.

Thank you, Myron, for one of the best diagnostic tools in my toolkit!!  You da boss, Bro!!

[vanwill52]

Uh, BTW, I realize that sometimes my replies are wordy and long.  But like Tom Cherry, I learned decades ago when writing "Operator's Manuals" for literarily-challenged machine operators, being verbose can USUALLY beat trying to make your "prose" great (as judged by your college English Literature professor).  The professor would tell you to use pronouns instead of repeating the full name, and to use acronyms...or not repeating what you have already said.  But if you want to be UNDERSTOOD by your everyday operator (like me), make what you write unequivocally clear, as opposed to being succinct, poetic, and short.

Tom's posts may be long, but they are concise, and leave little if any room for misinterpretation.  Thank you, Tom.  I try to emulate your style.

Thank you for your patience.