2006 LaPalma W24 Onan 5500 Issues and Questions

[LaPalma 34PDD]

Hi all,

I had solar installed on my coach a couple of years back now and when they connected the generator it is only connected to one leg of my 50 amp circuit and as luck would have it, the front AC is not on this circuit. 

Two questions, is this generator large enough to run the coach and second question is why do you think they only connected it to one leg and not both. I never really questioned them about the why?

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer.

Rodney

[Martinvz]

Rodney, That is weird. We have been able to run both aircons with the generator at the same time on our LaPalma. 
I suggest you do some tracing and checking. The first (and maybe obvious) places I would check are the following:

- Breakers on the generator as well as the cable connections 

- Transfer switch to make sure you have 120v on both live cables

- The 120v breakers in the power distribution panel

Good luck finding the problem.

 

Additional a suggestion if the a/c is not working on either generator or shore power  

Check the Intellitec load shedding board that is behind the cover plate surrounding the breaker switches. On our coach the board failed and we had no power to the rear aircon. 
I suggest you disconnect the rear a/c power cable from the Intellitec board and connect it directly to the breaker. If the a/c now functions then the Intellitec is not functioning correctly. As as temporary solution, you can relocate the rear a/c wire to the washer/dryer breaker until you can replace the board. These boards are available. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Martinvz
Additional suggestion

[Tom Cherry]

OK...from the TOP.  This, hopefully, is the same as your 2006.  Whoever did your solar should NOT have had or needed to "mess with the transfer switch".  I say that based on what I know about the electrical systems on a Monaco as well as verifying on the prints.  Look at the one I attached.  Also here is where I got it.  If you ever need a resource, then SEARCH for it.  You can put something like WIRING in the search box at top right....and then click on EVERYWHERE and choose Files.  That is how I got these...I usually have a copy on my laptop...  Then I saved a PDF of the Main 120 VAC print.  The BLOCK diagram at the bottom shows Line 1 and Line 2 coming in from the Generator and the Shore exactly alike.  You need to get a qualified electrician to remove the cover from the ATS and chase down and reconnect the Generator LINE that is missing.  NOW, you may have a defective Circuit Breaker in the Generator....not likely.  That is a Dual, side by side, Circuit breaker.  I'm guessing that is is a 25 Amp rating....as in you are protected or "fused" at 24 amps on each leg.  

NOW...your questions...  ONE...NEVER should have disconnected one leg.  PRINT proves that...

TWO - YES....but with a Caveat....It is a matter of WHAT you want to do.  You have a total of about 50 TOTAL amps of power from the 5.5K Generator.  THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS 50 AMP service.  When you are on SHORE, Line 1 and Line 2 BOTH have 50 AMPS EACH....On generator, you only have 50A total...and they are split evenly.  You have 25 amps on Line 1 and Line 2 from the Generator, as it was ORIGINALLY wired...and should be...or maybe I missed something and we have a LOT of smart folks here.... 

OK...understand the loading.  Your Air Conditioners (Heat Pumps?) will run around 15 Amps or so after they start up.  Therefore, 25 Amps (if I am correct) will easily run ONE air conditioner.  BUT, you run another device...like your batteries are LOW, then the Inverter/Charger can pull as much as 15 Amps.  OPPS....overloaded the one line.

Look at your prints.  Line 1 powers the Front AC.  That also has some INTERNAL outlets and the Water Heater.  So, you can NOT run the Front AC and use the Electric element of the Water Heater.  That is a total of up to 40 amps.  YOU ONLY GOT 25.

NOW the rear is even trickier.  If you run the REAR AC, it will pull maybe 17 from time to time.  BUT, there is a 30 Amp breaker for the Inverter/Charger.  BIG TIME OVERLOAD....you only have 25.  SO, you would have to TURN OFF the CHARGER when you were on Genny....That will NOT WORK..  I suspect some "enterprising, but UNKNOWING" tech did not understand...and decided to "Shade Tree Wire IT".  Your Owner's manual may NOT go over this.  IF your panel is the Smart EMS (Optional), then you have a Load Shedding device and your AC's are going to be on and off like popcorn kernels popping. 

NOW, if you do NOT have the EMS, the WIRING is the same...except you MUST do your own load management and NOT OVERLOAD it.

With LOW house batteries, you MUST recharge them FIRST.  Then, turn OFF the Charger section of the Inverter/Charger.  NOW all the inverter is doing is passing power through (from the inverter) to your House Outlets.  You can run THEN turn on the REAR AC.

While all the above is going ON...You can RUN the front AC.  It is on a different line.  BUT, if you plug in a high demand item like a hair dryer, coffee maker microwave or space heater....BINGO, you are gonna trip a breaker.  MOST LIKELY the one on the Generator...

SO, you MUST understand that on Generator, you only can use 25amps or so...and if you exceed that on EITHER LINE...it is gonna cause issues.

That's it.  May be confusing...may be simple.  BUT you have an improperly wired Auto Transfer Switch.  It needs to be restored per the PRINT.  If you have the EMS, it will do, assuming it is working and no one has gone inside it and "messed" around.  If you do NOT have the EMS...same deal...but you have to be the BRAIN to load shed.  

BUT, you can NOT run BOTH AC's without making sure that there is nothing but a light load on either of the other two circuits.  Line 2 is your Charger/Inverter.  It really draws NO CURRENT when it is NOT charging.  It is passing through the Generator (shore) power.  

Think upon it.  Ask questions.  Good Luck

Download these prints if you manual does not have them in the back.  EVEN so, I would have them as an electronic copy to print for a tech.

 

2005 LaPalma main panel and generator Wiring Diagrams.pdf

[LaPalma 34PDD]

18 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK...from the TOP.  This, hopefully, is the same as your 2006.  Whoever did your solar should NOT have had or needed to "mess with the transfer switch".  I say that based on what I know about the electrical systems on a Monaco as well as verifying on the prints.  Look at the one I attached.  Also here is where I got it.  If you ever need a resource, then SEARCH for it.  You can put something like WIRING in the search box at top right....and then click on EVERYWHERE and choose Files.  That is how I got these...I usually have a copy on my laptop...  Then I saved a PDF of the Main 120 VAC print.  The BLOCK diagram at the bottom shows Line 1 and Line 2 coming in from the Generator and the Shore exactly alike.  You need to get a qualified electrician to remove the cover from the ATS and chase down and reconnect the Generator LINE that is missing.  NOW, you may have a defective Circuit Breaker in the Generator....not likely.  That is a Dual, side by side, Circuit breaker.  I'm guessing that is is a 25 Amp rating....as in you are protected or "fused" at 24 amps on each leg.  

NOW...your questions...  ONE...NEVER should have disconnected one leg.  PRINT proves that...

TWO - YES....but with a Caveat....It is a matter of WHAT you want to do.  You have a total of about 50 TOTAL amps of power from the 5.5K Generator.  THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS 50 AMP service.  When you are on SHORE, Line 1 and Line 2 BOTH have 50 AMPS EACH....On generator, you only have 50A total...and they are split evenly.  You have 25 amps on Line 1 and Line 2 from the Generator, as it was ORIGINALLY wired...and should be...or maybe I missed something and we have a LOT of smart folks here.... 

OK...understand the loading.  Your Air Conditioners (Heat Pumps?) will run around 15 Amps or so after they start up.  Therefore, 25 Amps (if I am correct) will easily run ONE air conditioner.  BUT, you run another device...like your batteries are LOW, then the Inverter/Charger can pull as much as 15 Amps.  OPPS....overloaded the one line.

Look at your prints.  Line 1 powers the Front AC.  That also has some INTERNAL outlets and the Water Heater.  So, you can NOT run the Front AC and use the Electric element of the Water Heater.  That is a total of up to 40 amps.  YOU ONLY GOT 25.

NOW the rear is even trickier.  If you run the REAR AC, it will pull maybe 17 from time to time.  BUT, there is a 30 Amp breaker for the Inverter/Charger.  BIG TIME OVERLOAD....you only have 25.  SO, you would have to TURN OFF the CHARGER when you were on Genny....That will NOT WORK..  I suspect some "enterprising, but UNKNOWING" tech did not understand...and decided to "Shade Tree Wire IT".  Your Owner's manual may NOT go over this.  IF your panel is the Smart EMS (Optional), then you have a Load Shedding device and your AC's are going to be on and off like popcorn kernels popping. 

NOW, if you do NOT have the EMS, the WIRING is the same...except you MUST do your own load management and NOT OVERLOAD it.

With LOW house batteries, you MUST recharge them FIRST.  Then, turn OFF the Charger section of the Inverter/Charger.  NOW all the inverter is doing is passing power through (from the inverter) to your House Outlets.  You can run THEN turn on the REAR AC.

While all the above is going ON...You can RUN the front AC.  It is on a different line.  BUT, if you plug in a high demand item like a hair dryer, coffee maker microwave or space heater....BINGO, you are gonna trip a breaker.  MOST LIKELY the one on the Generator...

SO, you MUST understand that on Generator, you only can use 25amps or so...and if you exceed that on EITHER LINE...it is gonna cause issues.

That's it.  May be confusing...may be simple.  BUT you have an improperly wired Auto Transfer Switch.  It needs to be restored per the PRINT.  If you have the EMS, it will do, assuming it is working and no one has gone inside it and "messed" around.  If you do NOT have the EMS...same deal...but you have to be the BRAIN to load shed.  

BUT, you can NOT run BOTH AC's without making sure that there is nothing but a light load on either of the other two circuits.  Line 2 is your Charger/Inverter.  It really draws NO CURRENT when it is NOT charging.  It is passing through the Generator (shore) power.  

Think upon it.  Ask questions.  Good Luck

Download these prints if you manual does not have them in the back.  EVEN so, I would have them as an electronic copy to print for a tech.

 

2005 LaPalma main panel and generator Wiring Diagrams.pdf 409.02 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks Tom,

This is a very good explanation of the system and how it is wired up. I do believe they did this to prevent overload when boondocking Id say. I can take what you have sent here and get it back to normal. I would only use the AC when traveling if needed and the water heater would not be on electric. Thanks for the wiring diagram as well. 

[FLynes]

I'm going to add to this, you DP owners don't know how nice you have it, with easy access to the wiring harnesses under the coach. One of the issues I've had is that the remote start button on the dash neither starts nor stops the generator. In looking at another post where someone cut the red wire and bypassed the plug on the harness and then reattached it on the other side, I decided to inspect my harness. Imagine my surprise, when I crawled under the coach this morning and found that either Workhorse or Monaco installed plates of sheet metal on top of the frame crossmembers. When you look in the crossmember lightening holes, you can clearly see the different harnesses laying on top of these plates, and there is approximately 8-10" space between these steel plates and the bottom of the RV floor membrane. In short, there is no way to get to the harnesses, unless you whiz wheel the steel plates off, but then the bottom of the floor is exposed to the driveshaft, as well as debris from the ground. I'm thinking my problem might end up being an RV technician's problem, which then becomes a problem for my wallet. Right now I'm okay with just going to the generator itself and starting it.

[Martinvz]

Do you have a remote start on the control panel in the middle of the coach? I have one in this panel. 

[FLynes]

2 hours ago, Martinvz said:

Do you have a remote start on the control panel in the middle of the coach? I have one in this panel. 

Ours sits below the radio, right above the wooden cup holders that sit over the doghouse.

[Martinvz]

Interesting ….. We have one on the dash and another on the control panel where the Magnum remote is, and both work. Talk about a change in model year, to add a second generator remote switch. 

[FLynes]

12 hours ago, Martinvz said:

Interesting ….. We have one on the dash and another on the control panel where the Magnum remote is, and both work. Talk about a change in model year, to add a second generator remote switch. 

At least you have redundancy, if one of your switches isn't working.

For those wondering about year differences, here is the hallway panel, as well as upper and lower dash on our '05.

Edited September 5, 2023 by FLynes

[Martinvz]

Frederic and I have been discussing the layout in the background and found our dash and control panel to be quite different. I do not know if it is a model year change or a mid-year change or due to options.

I have noticed that the same panel is used in the DPs but I am not sure from which year. See my photo below.