Should I Add an External Power Conditioner and Surge Protector to my "Kongsberg" Dynasty?

[LakeBob]

My Dynasty was built in June 2008, sold as a 2009, and I was "lucky" to get the Kongsberg system.  Reading these posts over the last few days has me a bit depressed.  I'm usually better at my pre-purchase research........Totally missed the "Kongsberg Issue".   ☹️

I'm experiencing several minor electrical issues, fortunately they don't affect drivability.  Frank McElroy has a great help with troubleshooting and suggestions, however, we have not located any smoking guns yet.  I recently found one burned headlight connector that may be one of the issues, replacing tomorrow. 

The coach came with the Surge Guard switch and surge protection system installed with remote display.  I understand that these systems are fairly good at protecting the coach from power issues.   

I'm thinking of adding another layer of protection by adding a current technology post mount power conditioner and surge protector. 

I understand that Progressive Industries are the recommended technology? 

Do you think this would be wise? 

Would this cause issues with the internal Surge Guard?

 

Thanks!!

 

[Frank McElroy]

There are a number of Kongsberg chassis multiplex systems out there that function just fine.  The biggest issue as I see it is a failure of one of the dash switch modules especially one of the two master modules.  If one fails, half the other slave switch modules connected to the master will no longer work.

Common reasons why a dash switch module fails:

1 - Water getting into the switch module due to an open window or in cleaning them.  There is a circuit board that generates the multiplex signals inside and just a small amount of water will short it out.

2 - Plugging or unplugging the rear data cables without first disconnection the house and chassis batteries at the battery - not just the battery disconnect switches.

3 - Very low battery voltages - the master modules can fail if battery voltages get below about 4 vdc.

Do not let any service tech troubleshoot a problem with your dash switches unless they fully understand the system.  I've seen more damage with "work arounds" causing many issues.

The large PCB in the FRB is a potential fire Hazzard because it was never properly fused.  Read the article in our files and add the two circuit breakers at the end of the article.

The circuit on the front CCM providing +5 volts to the smart wheel will eventually fail.  On the forum, there is a good discussion on how to fix this issue if your SmartWheel stops working.

 

[Tom Cherry]

53 minutes ago, LakeBob said:

My Dynasty was built in June 2008, sold as a 2009, and I was "lucky" to get the Kongsberg system.  Reading these posts over the last few days has me a bit depressed.  I'm usually better at my pre-purchase research........Totally missed the "Kongsberg Issue".   ☹️

I'm experiencing several minor electrical issues, fortunately they don't affect drivability.  Frank McElroy has a great help with troubleshooting and suggestions, however, we have not located any smoking guns yet.  I recently found one burned headlight connector that may be one of the issues, replacing tomorrow. 

The coach came with the Surge Guard switch and surge protection system installed with remote display.  I understand that these systems are fairly good at protecting the coach from power issues.   

I'm thinking of adding another layer of protection by adding a current technology post mount power conditioner and surge protector. 

I understand that Progressive Industries are the recommended technology? 

Do you think this would be wise? 

Would this cause issues with the internal Surge Guard?

 

Thanks!!

 

There is a topic already discussing this.  It does NOT specifically relate or address the Kongsburg issues.  BUT, generally speaking, you only need or should have ONE SURGE SUPPRESSOR.  There are enough issues over the years in the electronics industry and UL and NEC NOW SPECIFICALLY FORBID DAISY CHAINING.

From the research that I did with Progressive, Belkin and Cooper Wiring Devices and some REAL ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS....the answer is 

NO...NADA....DON'T DO IT.  If you want to upgrade your existing ATS, then you need to do a complete analysis of the one you have....and the one you might buy and the Progressive HW50C.  

Many of our electronic experts here, with Dynasties that have the original Surge Guard ATS which HAS some surge protection plan to keep them. In the past, we have had folks that pulled them out and sold them on eBay and put in a simple ESCO ATS with a Progressive upstream.

Comparing the specs.....that's the first step to replacing the existing ATS, which does have surge protection.  BUT, are the MOS's (the sacrificial chips) in your ATS larger or have quicker response time than the HW50C.  I haven't been down that path in a LONG time....so you can do it.

Frank just chimed in, as I typed, with the best advice.  He tells you HOW to protect.  DO THAT....learn and READ.  

BUT, my advice from the OTHER SIDE of the table is DO NOT PUT IN AN ADDITIONAL (HARD WIRED OR PLUG) Surge Suppressor.  You have increased the risk of something going WRONG.  YES....this is AC and the Kongsburg is DC....but it you get a spike in the AC or have a burned connection then you risk putting that same transient spike or whatever into the DC side...and the Kongsburg....ain't gonna be happy.

I am NOT being a WISE apple.  Brett lost his due to lightning.  Many folks have lost electrical items due to lightning.  Many have lost electrical items due to an OPEN neutral which ran one leg of the AC up to 1`75 VAC.  I KNOW.  My HW50C shut off power.  I had a neutral wire come LOOSE inside the molded connector...NOT a pedestal issue. I measured the L1 and L2 to Ground....175 VAC.  NOT GOOD as the bonded ground would then carry that back to every appliance....

NOW....go to this post.  It was about a REEL...but morphed, as most do into SURGE.  Read my post....the above is a synopsis....and others chimed in and agreed....DO NOT ADD ANOTHER DEVICE...,  I think it puts your MORE at risk..

If you are really concerned and do all the things that Frank says....then get a lighting rod, that looks like an antenna and ground it out....  BUT you would need, per NEC, an 8 Ft Driven Ground.....just don't hit any water lines....  SERIOUSLY....I don't know HOW you increase the protection from Lightning.  SOMEONE or some entity has done that....I went down this path at our church....and I have several semesters of Electrical Engineering and I had good resources....there are too many variables.  BUT>>>>keep your insurance policy in effect.  AND if you are that concerned....then add Extended Warranty and pick a good company.  Brett got satisfaction that way.  IF someone had done the things that Frank (and Brett) pointed out....then it would be over....but if you want the ultimate in protection....pop for the Extended Warranty with Replacement Costs (Fair Market Value to Replace) in it....

Here is the other discussion...

 

[Frank McElroy]

A lot of folks wonder what you mean by a multiplex dash switch module.  In my opinion a few pictures are worth a thousand words.  A module will have room for up to 3 switches and the circuit board is inside the case.  This is what generates the multiplex signal going to the front and rear CCM controllers that power devices based on the switch module command.

Hope this helps.

[Tom Cherry]

AS USUAL....pictures DO tell the tale.  For THOSE with the Kongsbug MPX (Chassis)....these are the switches that control the system.  They are unique and TOTALLY different from the ones in the REAR or the House Intellitec MPX system.  If you look at your key pads back there....typically there are banks of 4 or 6 or 8....etc.

The BACK side of that MPX switch is totally different.  Frank's pictures are the 3 SWITCH MODULES....and the PCB inside....

If you are curious....then visit this thread.  It has a picture(S) of the itty bitty PCB that is behind your lighted Intllitec MPX system.  Totally different (I had a 45 minute learning phone call with Frank and he made me draw up a block diagram of the Kongsburg system to better understand it).  I now understand a little better and why it is so totally different, and way more complex than the Intellitc MOX.  Intellitec can usually be FIXED.  Kongsburg....rarely...as each switch is programmed for the three unique functions.  The Intelltec Keypad can be REPROGRAMMED or copied ....NOT SO....Kongsburg is locked and NO WAY to take one 3 switch module and reprogram it for another....loose ONE switch module....gotta find the exact one for your year.... NO NEW ONES.....

Here is the OTHER end of the MPX in these MH's

Frank might correct my "layman's" explanation...but curious folks like me....just GOTTTA KNOW and TRY TO UNDERSTAND....

Thanks...

[Frank McElroy]

Back in the day, Monaco published a magazine called Lifestyles. 

In the December/January 2007/2008 issue, there was an article about the new chassis multiplex system. A copy is in our files.

Two years ago I spoke with the Roadmaster engineering manager leading the project.  The hour long conversation revealed a wealth of information.  Unfortunately the key contact interface between Monaco, Eaton and Kongsberg had passed.  But what is known is that Kongsberg provided Monaco with the pre-programmed CCM modules and Eaton provided Monaco with the pre programmed E30 dash switch modules.

I recall back in 2008 Eaton would provide the software to reprogram the E30 dash modules Monaco used.  But that option no longer exists from Eaton.  The only option now is to remove an old PIC (programmable Integrated Circuit) chip from a failed board and either copy it or put it on another board. Unfortunately very few folks know how to do that.  Can it be done, yes I can, but I don't have known good boards to remount PIC chips.