2015 Dynasty Water Pump

[thomasgibbens]

I can’t get my water pump to come on when I press to multiplex switch at any location. I checked the fuse in the fuse block as well as the inline fuse and they are all in tact. There’s a relay in the circuit and don’t know how to test it. When I tried to see if I have 12V at the connector, it reads 0 volts. The pump is less than a year old but may have failed. Any suggestions as to how to test the relay or what the problem might be?  It is a REMCO #5AQUAJET-ARV pump. 
 

Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

[Dr4Film]

Tom,

Chances are it is NOT your new water pump. To verify that separate the two power wires and hook it directly to a 12 VDC battery, positive and negative.

I would look at your Intellitec 10 amp Water Pump Controller as the culprit or the type 87 relay that is after the Water Pump Controller.

Here is a picture of the Water Pump Controller and another photo of the controller and the relay in my 2002 Windsor.

[Tom Cherry]

34 minutes ago, thomasgibbens said:

I can’t get my water pump to come on when I press to multiplex switch at any location. I checked the fuse in the fuse block as well as the inline fuse and they are all in tact. There’s a relay in the circuit and don’t know how to test it. When I tried to see if I have 12V at the connector, it reads 0 volts. The pump is less than a year old but may have failed. Any suggestions as to how to test the relay or what the problem might be?  It is a REMCO #5AQUAJET-ARV pump. 
 

Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

Richard may be right...but I think that what he posted is NOT in your MH.  The later Dynasties, as well as my Camelot, were different from his 06...which was a transition.  THIS is how it works...  Now there is an ENTIRE file that Frank McElroy put together to explain how Multiplex works...I suggest you down load it.  We also have a copy of the 2015 Prints...but they are NOT in one file...so you have download the whole set....not that big...not 200 files like some...but here is yours...and the "CONCEPT".

FWIW, and I KNOW this for a fact and also from talking to Frank and him "supplying me with a replacement" MPX switch is this is HOW it works.  FIRST...Your Monaco does NOT have the Intellitec MPX...like MOST of us have or know about.  Someone CHANGED to an American Technologies System.  BUT, they are all the same...a Multiplex unit...

OK...for the Drawings, you will see that S11 is the same Water Pump Switch  (page 2) that is on many key pads.  That is the BEAUTY of the MPX system..... 

Now LOOK at the THIRD Drawing....  Look at Relay Module 1 and look for the S11 switch.  That is Circuit 5 or Fuse 5.  

The Pump Control that Richard has works just like the MPS.  But in 08 or maybe 07, Monaco ELIMINATED it and went to a Combo of MPX and ONE mechanical switch.  THIS IS KNOW....and one of our members had to replace and reprogram and also "solder in" the extra wires.  You do NOT, based on studying your prints...have that... BUT that extra run or wires to a MPX switch and such was...problematic...so the added a SEPARATE MPX Key pad to your service bay...

GOT ALL THAT....  OK...when any of the Pump (S11) buttons are pushed, the Relay Module 1 Circuit 5 is either turned ON or OFF... OK...I just read and REread your post.  AHA... I figured that there was going to be an INFAMOUS relay.  I do NOT know (or think or can find) a print on mine.  BUT, this is the logic.  Your Fans are all relay controlled.  When the MPX switch is pushed...it energizes a relay for the specific fan.  That relay then CLOSES.  Its contacts then pick up power from ANOTHER source and that is the power that goes to the Fans.  From what you said...and I can tell you that the reason they added the relay and mine, if I dig into my harddrive in my head, does NOT.  It blew fuses and Monaco said to bump UP of it blew to a 15.  THEY ELIMINATED that, I presume...by adding the BOSCH 5 Pin Relay.  Here is what you need to do...  Take you VOM and GROUND IT to the large Ground Lug on the opposite side from the Fuses.  Then turn ON the MPX switch.  NOW the LIGHT must be ON...on all switches....assuming it was that way before.  NOW...put your VOM on the fuse or remove the Fuse and find the power in...probably the spring terminal to the INSIDE.. OR...stick it in the back of the CONNECTOR (the lower one) to the PIN 1.  If you do NOT get an ON and OFF 12 VDC signal when the Pump Switch is ON and OFF...then the problem is IN the Relay Module 1.  That will be covered later...  OK...if you have POWER ON and OFF, then you need to start chasing or looking and your prints are NO help to me. 

First, if you have the INLINE fuse to the Pump...I would NOT trust it.  Open up the connector and do your voltage measurements directly on the incoming side. I DID have one of these fail and it is a PITA...  I UNDERSTAND why it is needed...so if you have Voltage on the incoming side of the open fuse holder...then I would get a NEW inline fuse holder (the Plastic type for a Mini Fuse like on the ATC module and replace it.  BUT, if you want to test, then pull out the wire (if you can) on the other side of the fuse and then use a small piece of single strand (like the strands in an extension cord) and splice them temporarily together...OR if you have a Jump Pack that has a battery run power there.  You can (be creative) put your vehicle NEAR the wet bay...carefully connect Jumper Cables and "hot wire" the pump...find a good ground and then run a piece of #12 wire from the jumper cable clamp to the pump.  If it RUNS....You have an upstream problem ...THAT is the second step.

NOW...if the pump don't work....NEW pump.  If the Pump WORKS (Hot wired) and you do NOT have Voltage on the inlet side of the fuse holder....there is a BOSCH relay UPSTREAM.  It works like this.  The Signal (ON) from the MPX Relay Module 1 goes to it....it will be the standard 5 pin Bosch relay.  NOW, the rest....is, as I write, the LOGICAL way that Monaco did it. 

The relay has the COIL and the contact numbers are 85 and 86 (yes...I have that branded in my brain).  ONE is ground and the OTHER is 12 VDC.  Which one on yours...it MATTERS not.  Find the PUMP CONTROL RELAY. It does NOT look like Richards picture..just a plain relay.  It may be MARKED like that.  Then ground out one side of your meter to the chassis.  With the Pump ON (you have voltage leaving Relay Module 2 Circuit 5...then touch terminal or probe terminal 85...  IF you have Power going to ONE side (85 or 86) and the OTHER is grounded...then the circuit is GOOD.  Next up.  Terminal 30 (most likely) will have INCOMING power.  Since it is a NO relay, then the OUTGOING power will be on Pin 87.  So, energize the relay.  You make a circuit, when the coil is closed, between 30 and 87.  Power in does not matter...either will work.  There should be NO wire on 87A as that is not needed...this is strictly an ON and OFF electric switch.

IF you do NOT have incoming power (with the PUMP SWITCH off) to pin 30 or 87, then the UPSTREAM Power is dead.  Maybe a fuse...or probably a Mini Circuit breaker.  I can't find in on the Dynasty Prints...and I LOOKED twice....so, you need to start in the RRB if you do not have power.  I scoured the Owners manual and it sucks....NO legend or any circuit breaker or fuse info...  

That is how it probably works....May be a DIRECT line from Relay 1 Module Fuse 5 directly to the Pump...but since there is an INLINE (I assume) fuse there, then there is a Bosch Relay hidden and GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE.  In the older Monaco's, they his all these relays (fans and Such) behind the panel where the Relay Modules were.  You TOOK off the Modules (still hooked up and out of the way and pulled off the mounting panel and there was a rats next of serpents and wires back there and relays and circuit breakers...and there is NO print in the files (and this is the Monaco Set) that show the output of the Relay Module 1 to the final point...the pump..

 

 

2015 Dynasty Multiplex System.pdf

[thomasgibbens]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Richard may be right...but I think that what he posted is NOT in your MH.  The later Dynasties, as well as my Camelot, were different from his 06...which was a transition.  THIS is how it works...  Now there is an ENTIRE file that Frank McElroy put together to explain how Multiplex works...I suggest you down load it.  We also have a copy of the 2015 Prints...but they are NOT in one file...so you have download the whole set....not that big...not 200 files like some...but here is yours...and the "CONCEPT".

FWIW, and I KNOW this for a fact and also from talking to Frank and him "supplying me with a replacement" MPX switch is this is HOW it works.  FIRST...Your Monaco does NOT have the Intellitec MPX...like MOST of us have or know about.  Someone CHANGED to an American Technologies System.  BUT, they are all the same...a Multiplex unit...

OK...for the Drawings, you will see that S11 is the same Water Pump Switch  (page 2) that is on many key pads.  That is the BEAUTY of the MPX system..... 

Now LOOK at the THIRD Drawing....  Look at Relay Module 1 and look for the S11 switch.  That is Circuit 5 or Fuse 5.  

The Pump Control that Richard has works just like the MPS.  But in 08 or maybe 07, Monaco ELIMINATED it and went to a Combo of MPX and ONE mechanical switch.  THIS IS KNOW....and one of our members had to replace and reprogram and also "solder in" the extra wires.  You do NOT, based on studying your prints...have that... BUT that extra run or wires to a MPX switch and such was...problematic...so the added a SEPARATE MPX Key pad to your service bay...

GOT ALL THAT....  OK...when any of the Pump (S11) buttons are pushed, the Relay Module 1 Circuit 5 is either turned ON or OFF... OK...I just read and REread your post.  AHA... I figured that there was going to be an INFAMOUS relay.  I do NOT know (or think or can find) a print on mine.  BUT, this is the logic.  Your Fans are all relay controlled.  When the MPX switch is pushed...it energizes a relay for the specific fan.  That relay then CLOSES.  Its contacts then pick up power from ANOTHER source and that is the power that goes to the Fans.  From what you said...and I can tell you that the reason they added the relay and mine, if I dig into my harddrive in my head, does NOT.  It blew fuses and Monaco said to bump UP of it blew to a 15.  THEY ELIMINATED that, I presume...by adding the BOSCH 5 Pin Relay.  Here is what you need to do...  Take you VOM and GROUND IT to the large Ground Lug on the opposite side from the Fuses.  Then turn ON the MPX switch.  NOW the LIGHT must be ON...on all switches....assuming it was that way before.  NOW...put your VOM on the fuse or remove the Fuse and find the power in...probably the spring terminal to the INSIDE.. OR...stick it in the back of the CONNECTOR (the lower one) to the PIN 1.  If you do NOT get an ON and OFF 12 VDC signal when the Pump Switch is ON and OFF...then the problem is IN the Relay Module 1.  That will be covered later...  OK...if you have POWER ON and OFF, then you need to start chasing or looking and your prints are NO help to me. 

First, if you have the INLINE fuse to the Pump...I would NOT trust it.  Open up the connector and do your voltage measurements directly on the incoming side. I DID have one of these fail and it is a PITA...  I UNDERSTAND why it is needed...so if you have Voltage on the incoming side of the open fuse holder...then I would get a NEW inline fuse holder (the Plastic type for a Mini Fuse like on the ATC module and replace it.  BUT, if you want to test, then pull out the wire (if you can) on the other side of the fuse and then use a small piece of single strand (like the strands in an extension cord) and splice them temporarily together...OR if you have a Jump Pack that has a battery run power there.  You can (be creative) put your vehicle NEAR the wet bay...carefully connect Jumper Cables and "hot wire" the pump...find a good ground and then run a piece of #12 wire from the jumper cable clamp to the pump.  If it RUNS....You have an upstream problem ...THAT is the second step.

NOW...if the pump don't work....NEW pump.  If the Pump WORKS (Hot wired) and you do NOT have Voltage on the inlet side of the fuse holder....there is a BOSCH relay UPSTREAM.  It works like this.  The Signal (ON) from the MPX Relay Module 1 goes to it....it will be the standard 5 pin Bosch relay.  NOW, the rest....is, as I write, the LOGICAL way that Monaco did it. 

The relay has the COIL and the contact numbers are 85 and 86 (yes...I have that branded in my brain).  ONE is ground and the OTHER is 12 VDC.  Which one on yours...it MATTERS not.  Find the PUMP CONTROL RELAY. It does NOT look like Richards picture..just a plain relay.  It may be MARKED like that.  Then ground out one side of your meter to the chassis.  With the Pump ON (you have voltage leaving Relay Module 2 Circuit 5...then touch terminal or probe terminal 85...  IF you have Power going to ONE side (85 or 86) and the OTHER is grounded...then the circuit is GOOD.  Next up.  Terminal 30 (most likely) will have INCOMING power.  Since it is a NO relay, then the OUTGOING power will be on Pin 87.  So, energize the relay.  You make a circuit, when the coil is closed, between 30 and 87.  Power in does not matter...either will work.  There should be NO wire on 87A as that is not needed...this is strictly an ON and OFF electric switch.

IF you do NOT have incoming power (with the PUMP SWITCH off) to pin 30 or 87, then the UPSTREAM Power is dead.  Maybe a fuse...or probably a Mini Circuit breaker.  I can't find in on the Dynasty Prints...and I LOOKED twice....so, you need to start in the RRB if you do not have power.  I scoured the Owners manual and it sucks....NO legend or any circuit breaker or fuse info...  

That is how it probably works....May be a DIRECT line from Relay 1 Module Fuse 5 directly to the Pump...but since there is an INLINE (I assume) fuse there, then there is a Bosch Relay hidden and GOD ONLY KNOWS WHERE.  In the older Monaco's, they his all these relays (fans and Such) behind the panel where the Relay Modules were.  You TOOK off the Modules (still hooked up and out of the way and pulled off the mounting panel and there was a rats next of serpents and wires back there and relays and circuit breakers...and there is NO print in the files (and this is the Monaco Set) that show the output of the Relay Module 1 to the final point...the pump..

 

 

2015 Dynasty Multiplex System.pdf 4.51 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks!  I am downloading the file and will reread to digest all this and then start troubleshooting.. Thank you for the prompt reply.

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, thomasgibbens said:

Thanks!  I am downloading the file and will reread to digest all this and then start troubleshooting.. Thank you for the prompt reply.

I did not want you chasing a ghost and after doing the research and knowing knowing how the old Intellitec MPX works...the newer ATC is based on the same logic.  NO SIGNAL Out from the Relay Module 1....NO PUMP.  But if Signal OUT...then start at Pump and check for incoming.  No incoming, then PROBABLY not a short or broken wire...but probably a switching (Bosch relay) and if so, then that Relay has NOT to have a source of power.  It is there to deliver a higher Current to the pump than the ATC can handle.  But the Prints are sketchy...so looking and doing some visual and measurements is all I can offer...but you are NOT, I think, hunting for the older style Pump Relay...so at least your are on the right road...

[thomasgibbens]

I have found that whenever I press a WATER PUMP MPX switch in the coach, all illuminate so I will check out the pump. 

Just now, thomasgibbens said:

I have found that whenever I press a WATER PUMP MPX switch in the coach, all illuminate so I will check out the pump. 

Ironically, the file you had me download was one that I originally had uploaded when you asked for drawings last year. 

[thomasgibbens]

After testing, I have power at the connector and inline fuse going to the pump so the problem is a failed pump, which incidentally is only 8 months old!  Thanks for all the help.

[Tom Cherry]

25 minutes ago, thomasgibbens said:

After testing, I have power at the connector and inline fuse going to the pump so the problem is a failed pump, which incidentally is only 8 months old!  Thanks for all the help.

Tis better to troubleshoot and understand than go blindly in search of things that do not exist…Great you figured it out.  Also even GREATER…your MPX works….

[Dr4Film]

37 minutes ago, thomasgibbens said:

After testing, I have power at the connector and inline fuse going to the pump so the problem is a failed pump, which incidentally is only 8 months old!  Thanks for all the help.

Should be under warranty depending on where and who you purchased the pump from.