wall switches

[Jim McGarvie]

Our bedroom slide is intermittent, and I suspect the wall switch. It is a Sigma LR-20985, a white SPDT rocker switch, and I can't find it anywhere online. I also checked the Parts List here to no avail. Any ideas?

Thanks!

Jim

 

[Jerry Ellis]

Can you post a photo?

[Dr4Film]

Try eBay. Here is one link that I had found for those switches.

https://tinyurl.com/yc7q92bt

Edited July 2, 2020 by Dr4Film

[gburgman2000]

this is there current switch info, just need to match up the size and rating, or send them and email of what replaces it..

https://www.sigmaswitches.com/  likely a 1C-26-U  as the old one was a 1C-26-N 

[Jim McGarvie]

12 minutes ago, Jerry Ellis said:

Can you post a photo?

Thanks, Jerry, I should have thought of that. I've attached a couple of pics. The switch is about 1/2" by 1".

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14 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Try eBay. Here is one link that I had found for those switches.

https://tinyurl.com/yc7q92bt

Thanks Richard. I already looked at that, but can't find white ones. If worse comes to worst I will replace with black.

[Dr4Film]

Jim,  I really don't think you need a SPDT switch as you describe. Slide switches are momentary and in your case it would need to be a double throw momentary.

The one in the link is not a momentary as it is a SPDT, it stays in one direction or the other, not in the center like a momentary switch.

You picture is showing a momentary switch for the slide which has a center resting position.

Edit: I just realized that momentary switches can be SPDT also.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Dr4Film

[Jerry Ellis]

I bought these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UBZL9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031OWLAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Looks like you can get ivory.

[Dr4Film]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Ellis said:

I bought these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UBZL9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031OWLAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Looks like you can get ivory.

Jerry, those are On/On and On/Off switches not momentary. Slide switches are always momentary otherwise the motors would burn up.

[Jerry Ellis]

Yes, you are correct. JR Products makes a line of switches that seem identical to the ones in my Scepter and while I'd have to go back and look, I think this was the brand I have. My intent was just to point Jim to another source and not the exact model numbers. 

[Jim McGarvie]

17 minutes ago, gburgman2000 said:

this is there current switch info, just need to match up the size and rating, or send them and email of what replaces it..

https://www.sigmaswitches.com/  likely a 1C-26-U  as the old one was a 1C-26-N 

Thanks, Guy, but I already checked that. The 1C-26-U is shown as ON/ON. What I need is  mom-on/off/mom-on. Their 1F-93 appears to be that. I can't see how to order on their website, so I will give them a call.

40 minutes ago, Jerry Ellis said:

Yes, you are correct. JR Products makes a line of switches that seem identical to the ones in my Scepter and while I'd have to go back and look, I think this was the brand I have. My intent was just to point Jim to another source and not the exact model numbers. 

Thanks, Jerry. The ones you linked to wouldn't work, but I will check out that product line.

[Jerry Ellis]

For slide - Momentary: https://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-12695-White-Switch/dp/B002UC8NIM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=jr+products+12695&qid=1593707514&sr=8-2

Ceiling - I can't tell but it looks like it needs to be SPDT. If it works like a 3-way switch at home then maybe this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UBZL9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And this is a total guess on the bedroom one but in white it would be: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031OWLAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Onthego]

Here one that mite work  and it’s white https://www.amazon.com/SEACHOICE-White-Rocker-Switch-Momentary/dp/B000N9R880

[Jim McGarvie]

1 hour ago, Jerry Ellis said:

For slide - Momentary: https://www.amazon.com/JR-Products-12695-White-Switch/dp/B002UC8NIM/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=jr+products+12695&qid=1593707514&sr=8-2

Ceiling - I can't tell but it looks like it needs to be SPDT. If it works like a 3-way switch at home then maybe this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UBZL9W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And this is a total guess on the bedroom one but in white it would be: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031OWLAY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Those are spot on, Jerry. If I can't get the original switch from Sigma I will buy all three, plus the base and face plate. Thanks!

1 hour ago, Onthego said:

Here one that mite work  and it’s white https://www.amazon.com/SEACHOICE-White-Rocker-Switch-Momentary/dp/B000N9R880

Thanks, Rich, but that is too big.

[Onthego]

Your switch is most likely a  DPDT momentary contact switch .  If you take your finger off the button the switch goes to off when push in or out. The  switch that Jerry  posted didn’t do that .  Check it out before you order.  I’m only based what I’m saying  on my slides switch how it works.

[Jim McGarvie]

27 minutes ago, Onthego said:

Your switch is most likely a  DPDT momentary contact switch .  If you take your finger off the button the switch goes to off when push in or out. The  switch that Jerry  posted didn’t do that .  Check it out before you order.  I’m only based what I’m saying  on my slides switch how it works.

Thanks, Rich, but no, my switch is just like the one Jerry sent the link to: SPDT Mom-On/Off/Mom-On. And yes, it returns to off when released from either direction.

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Jim McGarvie said:

Thanks, Jerry, I should have thought of that. I've attached a couple of pics. The switch is about 1/2" by 1".

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Thanks Richard. I already looked at that, but can't find white ones. If worse comes to worst I will replace with black.

Jim,

You need a CARLING switch.  NOT a SIGMA.....

https://www.carlingtech.com/sites/default/files/documents/651-Series_Details_%26_COS.pdf

Here is what you want.... I THINK....  You MOST LIKELY have a 5 Relay board or box (maybe made by Intellitec).  There are FOUR relays on it.  TWO for in and out of one slide....the other two for in and out of the other slide.  SOME of them had another relay....and I can't remember why.  Therefore, the current draw is only for the relay coils and NOT the slide motors.

Follow the PN below (look at the Carling Tech Site.... this is what I believe you have....

652 - Gloss Finish

882 - Circuit is (ON) OFF (ON)  This is the TAB or push on Terminal Style.    It is a three position switch.  The center is OFF.  Each side is Spring Loaded.....in that when you HOLD it ON....it makes a momentary contact.  That energizes a Relay.  The switch carries very little (milliamps) of current.  The Center lead is the INCOMING.....  When you push it UP....it makes a contact (energizes a relay).  Then when you push it down....it energizes another relay.  One Relay extends.....the other Retracts.....  

W - Actuator White (the switch itself)

W - Base White (the body of the Switch

0 - NO LEGEND (printing)

N - N/A

I have ordered them from Sigma....or maybe Sigma gave me the name of a company that did small volume retail sales.  I talked to Tech Support.  you need to measure the switch and compare it to the size in the brochure.  

The Amazon Switches are confusing.  I THINK that Richard is correct.  They SAY momentary contact....but then the ratings say otherwise.  if you order these.....then they should be SPRING LOADED and NOT a "toggle" or stay ON when you push the rocker.

BEFORE I ordered a switch, I would FIRST determine IF that is the problem.  Often times you have a BAD BOSCH Relay.  SO here is the "try it" trouble shooting.

Put a small dot (Duct tape will work) on the TOP of the switch or on the rocker so that you KNOW which end is "UP".  Now....remove the switch.  Label each of the wires with masking tape or such.  The labels will be TOP (the one on the top) CENTER (this is the incoming or control circuit) and Bottom (bottom wire).  

If you take something as simple as a Paper Clip, you can short or make contact between the CENTER and one wire.  That should either EXTEND or RETRACT the slides.  If you make a "hairpin" of the paper clip.....then short out the center and the wire that extends the slide.  Once the slide is extended, the quickly remove the jumper.  You do the SAME for retraction....except you jumper the Center to the OTHER wire.  IF the slide works both ways.....you have a BAD Switch.  If a relay is  bad....then your problem should STILL exist.

Test or try the cirucit FIRST before you order the switch.....  if you do NOT want to do that, then order this switch for $7 to test....  Put the following in the Amazon Search Box...

IndusTec DPDT 20 AMP-6 Pin (on) / Off / (on) Momentary Automatic Reset Rocker Switch Polarity Double Pole Double Throw 12V DC Motor Control

The above switch has TWO sets of terminals....you only need one.  SO....if you ordered that switch....then you use ONE SIDE....put the Center wire in the center and don't worry about the other two.....put on on top and one of the bottom.  If you cycle the switch....one way will retract....and other way will extend.  IF this fixes it....then you know the Carling Switch is bad.  If not....then I would put in all new (maybe $30 total) Bosch 5 pin relays in the Control Box.  Amazon sells them.  check the label.  Probably 30 Amp contacts.....therefore get 30 and do not use 20 amp.

Hope this helps....  Good luck...

[Jim McGarvie]

5 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Jim,

You need a CARLING switch.  NOT a SIGMA.....

 

Hi Tom, I REALLY appreciate all the time and effort you put into your thoughtful reply. You included some great info, but unfortunately your main premise is incorrect. The existing switch IS a Sigma; I read the make and model number directly off the switch.

Your troubleshooting suggestion is a good one, but because the problem is intermittent it might not be conclusive.

Thanks again for your reply.

Jim

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Jim McGarvie said:

Hi Tom, I REALLY appreciate all the time and effort you put into your thoughtful reply. You included some great info, but unfortunately your main premise is incorrect. The existing switch IS a SigmaQuote; I read the make and model number directly off the switch.

Your troubleshooting suggestion is a good one, but because the problem is intermittent it might not be conclusive.

Thanks again for your reply.

Jim

Sigma and Carling were used interchangeably.  On the later MH, the large rocker switches (with the pads or larger rockers) were Carlings.  The smaller switches were Sigmas.  I know....  I have ordered and replaced some.

OK...you have a Sigma.  A Carling will interchange.  All the switches are made for standard cut outs or holes.  It matters NOT whose switch is in there.....as long as the hole or opening fit and the contacts and functions are the same.  Call Carling or download their brochure...  Carling will give you the correct PN and a source...

OK....since it is intermittent....you have two choices....  The longest and most complicated will be to call Carling and chase down an exact match.  Then you will be able to try that.  You MIGHT want to spend $8 or so with Amazon.  Order the switch.  Put it in.  You can secure the wiring and put a piece of tape on the TOP or the EXTEND side.  Use that switch and see if the gremlin returns.  IF it does....then you know you have a down stream problem.

Also, you need to think back through the failures.  Was it ALWAYS one way....  Retract or Extend?  If it was always on one side, then odds are, it was (is) a bad relay.  If you figure out WHERE the relay box or circuit board is, then I would buy all FOUR new relays and install them.   

BUT, if the gremlin is on BOTH functions...  Then the odds of having two bad relays (or loose connections) is slim.  So, the only common item is the switch.

Just a matter of how you go about it and what works for you.  

[Jim McGarvie]

33 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Sigma and Carling were used interchangeably.  On the later MH, the large rocker switches (with the pads or larger rockers) were Carlings.  The smaller switches were Sigmas.  I know....  I have ordered and replaced some.

OK...you have a Sigma.  A Carling will interchange.  All the switches are made for standard cut outs or holes.  It matters NOT whose switch is in there.....as long as the hole or opening fit and the contacts and functions are the same.  Call Carling or download their brochure...  Carling will give you the correct PN and a source...

OK....since it is intermittent....you have two choices....  The longest and most complicated will be to call Carling and chase down an exact match.  Then you will be able to try that.  You MIGHT want to spend $8 or so with Amazon.  Order the switch.  Put it in.  You can secure the wiring and put a piece of tape on the TOP or the EXTEND side.  Use that switch and see if the gremlin returns.  IF it does....then you know you have a down stream problem.

Also, you need to think back through the failures.  Was it ALWAYS one way....  Retract or Extend?  If it was always on one side, then odds are, it was (is) a bad relay.  If you figure out WHERE the relay box or circuit board is, then I would buy all FOUR new relays and install them.   

BUT, if the gremlin is on BOTH functions...  Then the odds of having two bad relays (or loose connections) is slim.  So, the only common item is the switch.

Just a matter of how you go about it and what works for you.  

Thanks for the further clarification, Tom. I think the failure has always been on extension. But couldn't that be dirty or corroded contacts on that side of the switch?

 

[Tom Cherry]

Just so you understand.  If you are dealing with ONE SLIDE and it has a failure on Extension.....then there could be one of three things....

First...  a faulty switch.  That is easily remedied by purchasing a new switch.  My suggestion was that it was LESS hassle to get the Amazon switch and use it temporarily than to call Carling and chase down the correct switch.  Sometimes there are minimum orders....

Second....there are TWO relays that control the slide.  The motor is controlled by TWO relays.  It is basically a "Reverse Polarity" circuit.  One relay supplies power to the motor and that extends it.  The OTHER relay is the Retract Relay and provides REVERSE polarity power to the motor.  When you push the EXTEND side or the switch, that energizes the Extend Relay.  THEN the relay supplies power.  The motor has TWO leads.  Call one RED and the other BLACK.  

OK....for example....you push the EXTEND side of the switch.  Lets speculate and then the EXTEND Relay provides POSITIVE Voltage to the RED lead and Negative or GROUND to the Black lead.  The motor then moves and you release it.

NOW, to retract it, you have to REVERSE the motor.  SO, when you push the RETRACT side, the OTHER Relay kicks in.  That relay provides Positive power to the BLACK lead of the motor and Negative (ground) to the RED lead.  Since you reversed the polarity.....the motor runs the OTHER way and retracts the slide.

SO, you have BOTH relays hooked up the motor.  BUT, only ONE supplies power at a time.  

NOW.....if the Extend Relay has a bad coil or bad contacts....then BINGO.....that is why you get an intermittent.  I would CHANGE both Relays....again, this is less than $20 and you have GOOD components.

SO, you have spent less than $30 and you have a TEMPORARY switch and new relays.  IF you have continuing issues....then either you have a bad connection or wire from the "Extend" relay....or the motor does NOT like to be reversed.  

You can't make decisions or troubleshoot until you isolate and/or eliminate variables.....especially a gremlin....

Hope this explains it.  

[Jim McGarvie]

16 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Just so you understand. 

Thanks, Tom, I do.