Failure of by-pass valve at water inlet 2005 Safari - Replacement information

[1nolaguy]

I know better concerning shutting off the incoming water when I leave the site but yesterday we took a day trip and I forgot to turn off the water at the spigot. When we got back there was water dripping heavily out of the tank overflow and at the pump low point drain. I cut off water at the spigot and the dripping stopped several minutes later. Since it was late I switched the diverter to tank thinking I would use the pump over night and deal with the issue in the AM. While this "worked" the pump rand continuously while turned on. SO now , while I thought it was the diverter valve that directs incoming water to the rig or the pump it may be (also?) the pump itself.

Any recommendation as to where I should look first? NOTE: bays are all dry except a little splashing in the wet bay near the pump and pump low point valve. Fresh water tank went from full to 1/2 full. 

[BradHend]

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, but if the reservoir tank was overflowing, then did you not just have the valve set to fill the tank instead of city supply and there actually is no issue?

 

[redstickbill]

The pump running after shutting the water off at the spigot indicates , to me, that you have a failed check valve between the fresh water holding tank and the pump discharge.

I recently had the same problem , changed out the check valve and problem solved. Bought a brass 1/2" check valve at Home Depot.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

[1nolaguy]

2 hours ago, BradHend said:

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding, but if the reservoir tank was overflowing, then did you not just have the valve set to fill the tank instead of city supply and there actually is no issue?

 

Brad, sorry I was not clear. The valve setting was on City Water not Tank Fill, but the overflow seemed to be coming from the tank. I made the assumption that the valve had failed allowing some water to go directly to the system while some was also going to the tank resulting in over low. In the light of day I was also concerned that I might have a leak at the tank but the tank held over night at 50%. I had been drawing down last night as we used water from the tank and the pump would run continuously as long as it was on so now I am thinking it may be a pump related issue and or a line from the pump to some where in the system. It has been raining all morning so I have yet to go out and explore the issue further.

1 hour ago, redstickbill said:

The pump running after shutting the water off at the spigot indicates , to me, that you have a failed check valve between the fresh water holding tank and the pump discharge.

I recently had the same problem , changed out the check valve and problem solved. Bought a brass 1/2" check valve at Home Depot.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

Bill, thanks. I will look at this first as soon as the rain stops. Did you find your replacement check valve on Amazon? I am about 20-30 miles from any hardware or big box store so may need to order parts. Probably also will order new pump while I am at it just to have as a back up. The one currently in use is OEM so 18 years old.

[redstickbill]

Loel,

I purchased the brass 1/2" check valve at Home Depot, it has SharkBite ends, I also had to purchase two flex hoses to get everything together with the check valve in the same position as the OEM valve. For me it was a tight working area and I have the bruises on my arms to prove it, not exactly fun for an old guy.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

[1nolaguy]

UP DATE: Well it stopped raining and dryed up enough to go outside and crawl around on the ground. It looks like it is going to be less of a problem than I thought.

The leak is on the front side of the pump, looks like a plug of sorts. It was wet after I refilled the FW tank. and was dripping down over the electrical connection and to teh wet bay floor. When I opened the other side, which also had leaking, The connections and pex for the FW tank, as well as the BT and GT were dry. only the floor was wet. Turns out the wet bay on our model is roto-molded as one piece, side to side. Apparently the leak was collecting on the wet bay (driver's side) and flowing along the bottom to the tank (passenger side) along the bay floor and then leaking out the whole the tank overflow passes through. So time to change the pump. I have a Sureflo 10-422-144 2.0 or 2.8 gpm 12 vdc 45 psi pump. Should I replace with the same or is something else recommended?

Also, I realize now I may be the cause of the problem as I have always kept the incoming pressure at 50 psi so that may have put extra strain on the pump.

[1nolaguy]

1 hour ago, redstickbill said:

Loel,

I purchased the brass 1/2" check valve at Home Depot, it has SharkBite ends, I also had to purchase two flex hoses to get everything together with the check valve in the same position as the OEM valve. For me it was a tight working area and I have the bruises on my arms to prove it, not exactly fun for an old guy.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

Where did you put the check valve? Between the tank and pums or on the city/tank fill side to serve as a back flow preventer?

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 1nolaguy said:

UP DATE: Well it stopped raining and dryed up enough to go outside and crawl around on the ground. It looks like it is going to be less of a problem than I thought.

The leak is on the front side of the pump, looks like a plug of sorts. It was wet after I refilled the FW tank. and was dripping down over the electrical connection and to teh wet bay floor. When I opened the other side, which also had leaking, The connections and pex for the FW tank, as well as the BT and GT were dry. only the floor was wet. Turns out the wet bay on our model is roto-molded as one piece, side to side. Apparently the leak was collecting on the wet bay (driver's side) and flowing along the bottom to the tank (passenger side) along the bay floor and then leaking out the whole the tank overflow passes through. So time to change the pump. I have a Sureflo 10-422-144 2.0 or 2.8 gpm 12 vdc 45 psi pump. Should I replace with the same or is something else recommended?

Also, I realize now I may be the cause of the problem as I have always kept the incoming pressure at 50 psi so that may have put extra strain on the pump.

Most folks use the Remco ARV 55 or whatever they call it NOW.  They USED to come with a built in Check Valve...but many of the OEM RV manufacturers started using a BUILT in Check Valve.  You order the Remco and then the "check valve".  It just pops in.  NOW, some really want protection....so they install a separate Check.  Mine has worked flawlessly so I am opiniionated.

@Scotty Hutto, our Web Master, had experimented and gone through this... I used the search BOX.  Put in REMCO PUMP and clicked on EVERYWHERE....selected TOPIC.  Scotty had a post that talked about the "pursuit of excellence" for a Check Valve.  Really thorough.

SO, read this.

NOW.... FWIW for you and/or folks that suffer from "Overflowing FW Tanks"....the TYPICAL issue is DEBRIS.  The fix.....under FULL city pressure....cycle, repeatedly, the city/fill valve.  That USUALLY flushes out the mess.

Next UP.  Always use a Washing Machine Mesh filter washer on the INCOMING hose.  SAVES YOU A LOT OF ISSUES.

Pressure...  The issue is NOT what the incoming is....unless you are in a western (USUALLY) state where the WP is up to 125 PSI.  MOST experienced folks opt or will eventually and then say.....OMG...why did I WAIT so long....for an Adjustable Pressure Regulator.  Valterra makes a good one.  I have had it or many years.

https://www.amazon.com/Valterra-A01-1117VP-Lead-Free-Adjustable-Regulator/dp/B003YJLAIK/ref=asc_df_B003YJLAIK/?tag=&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312061936460&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7290986641854048191&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009683&hvtargid=pla-571859709817&ref=&adgrpid=63195598478&th=1&psc=1

CW USED to sell them....but like all things....they come and go.  These USED to be $45....and with inflation....has gone up.  Pretty RUGGED.  WATTS, a well known name may make a similar unit.  WATTS sort of migrated and no longer, at least a few years ago, the entire assembly.  

What I LIKE about the VALTERRA...it has a LIQUID filled gauge.  For those not of the Industrial Process or Plumbing Crowd...a LIQUID FILLED gauge lasts and last....and you DO NOT want a standard one...or at least, I don't

That the long and short.  Hopefully a NEW pump (Remco if you decide WITH the separate, pop in Check valve will fix it....it does in most cases. 

Set your Incoming pressure to 55 PSI and don't worry...the PEX is rated for 80.  That is MY understanding and some might have other ideas...and that is because or their experiences or understandings....

[1nolaguy]

Thanks Tom. I too use a VALTERRA adjustable. MY concern is that I have it set at 55# and the pump is rated at 45# so I was wondering if added back pressure from the "city side" contributed to the failure. Also, FYI-  I run all potable water through a two stage whole house filter (0.5 carbon block polish) and then through a softener before it goes in the rig. Everyone is different. I spent years in the industrial water treatment business so this was what I decided for my set up. Thanks for the REMCO recommendation.

[Tom Cherry]

11 minutes ago, 1nolaguy said:

Thanks Tom. I too use a VALTERRA adjustable. MY concern is that I have it set at 55# and the pump is rated at 45# so I was wondering if added back pressure from the "city side" contributed to the failure. Also, FYI-  I run all potable water through a two stage whole house filter (0.5 carbon block polish) and then through a softener before it goes in the rig. Everyone is different. I spent years in the industrial water treatment business so this was what I decided for my set up. Thanks for the REMCO recommendation.

Certainly no offense to your past life.  I have many and some work here...others don't.  As to the pumps.  The Remco is rated for 60 PSI, memory.  I don't know about the pressure differential and whether it caused the problem.

As to the whole house filter....there is a mixed "bag".  Many folks with a Monaco installed "Common Home House Cartridge" filter have experimented.  These are 5 GPM ones that many, mine included, residence has.  I run the CHEAPEST and lowest rating charcoal filter in mine.  The intent, with the screen washer filters as primary is to actually remove any charcoal taste.  We have a well and are not exactly used to heavily chlorinated water (My DW claims it increases her evening "indigestion"....LOL) If we weren't picky about removing the chlorine residual, I would use the cheap foam filters like I do at home.

Many folks DO run softeners.  However, from a "physics and plumbing" standpoint....many overbought....and then the pressure drop from the city supplies...which rarely run above 30 PSI during peak use time in CG and also the pressure drop from our 60 PSI Remco's were objectionable.  Folks put in mega micron cartridge filters...then the wives complained that there was NOT enough pressure to rinse their hair while showering.

SO....many do like I do.  Low end filter with very little pressure drop...charcoal if Chlorine bother them....  and some of the ultra expensive softeners were uninstalled and simpler on with lower pressure drops were used.

Bottom line...  I don't remember folks complaining of pressure leaks.  The CG systems are low....so if you have a 60 PSI pump, it will overcome the check valve and then work fine.  

BUT, your comment makes sense...especially if you had a failing check valve....they are not "industrial" or commercial rated.  I don't think I need one....and Scotty is also a Mechanical Engineer, whose skills and knowledge I trust.  The only thing, based on folks wanting belts and suspenders in the past....having way too much check valve "capacity" as in TWO....the pumps were a little "strained" and there was indeed a pressure drop....  So, that is why I lean towards use the Check Valve designed for the pump.  Then when it wears out....replace.  Too many have had to "unplumb" their overkill.  BUT, others have not had the issue.  Sort of depends on the operating characteristics of the check valve you select.  I think, from my past experience, that some of the valves were perhaps chosen for 20 to 30 GPM or were meant to be that way.  Put a heavy duty sucker on the Remco pump and it was not designed, at 5 or 6 GPM (memory) as that was the whole house capacity of the filter....  and it gets a little puny...

[1nolaguy]

Tom the whole house system I have I already owned so not real added expense although I did treat myself to quick disconnects (lol). The system is rated at a through put of 10 gpm with new cartridges so even at half capacity I am well within the RV system requirements. I added the softener as I was in so high hardness areas and its maintenance is easier that trying to descale the HWH. Also no scum in the bath or washing machine. The one thing about a whole house system is mine sits outside so has to be brought in in freezing weather (so should your adjustable pressure valve or you can ruin the gauge ( this from experience), The softener fits neatly in a side compartment of the wet bay so only gets moved during regeneration. I change filter cartridges 2x a year and regenerate the softener about the same. I test the water at the kitchen tap once a month for hardness just in case. Enough about my system.

[1nolaguy]

UPDATE: Thought I should send on my choice of solution for future reference: After consideration and evaluation I replaced the old pump with a new Shurflo 4008 Power Max that I bought from Amazon for $66 delivered. I also added a Shurflo inline pump pre-filter (255-313) for an extra $9. Frankly I do knot know why they do not just include this with the pump as a kit but that is a marketing thing. Replacing the pump solved the problem, however I should note that while the mounting screw holes matched my OEM pump for orientation the rubber pump mount on the new pump is twice as thick so you will need to use longer screws than those used in the OEM. The new mount is about 1/2' THICK. Also the unit itself is slightly bigger by about 1/2 to 5/8". As a result , while the inlet line could be attached fine the outlet line fell 5/8" height and my plumbing would not allow for the height difference. As a result I had to cut and replace the pex. This meant buying a pex tool (crimp), fitting and in doing so I also replaced the old fitting as the internal rubber gasket being 18 years old I figured might as well do it now. All in all it cost about $100 and a trip to the hardware or two but solved the problem and resulted in better flow rate and quieter pump noise. FYI- after removing the old pump I separated the pump housing from the motor. The pump diaphragm (3 chamber) had some build up that was not hard but a bit sticky. It was easily removed with dish soap. The diaphragm itself looked to be in good shape. I resealed with food grade silicone grease (which I also use for maintenance on other water/rubber seals) and re-assembled the unit. It now appears to work fine without leaking.

In retrospect I probably should have done this before ordering a new pump and might have saved some money and time. Since I do not use the pump often it is likely the build up in the pump may have been biological from sitting with water unused. I will going forward exercise the pump regularly and especially include it when sanitizing the fresh water tank, which I will also do more frequently.

I will keep the old pump as a back up.

 

Thanks for everyone's input. Oh and BTW - Shurfol advised not to install a check valve at the discharge side of the pump on 4 and 5 diaphragm pumps as back pressure can cause damage or shortened pump life, especially at low flow rates.