Frank McElroy

I was working offline with the OP and I also tried to find that rear distribution panel in the manual - I couldn't find it even mentioned.  So I suggested that George post the question on the forum - surely someone will know the location - looks like Myron knows.  Myron, thanks for the pictures - much appreciated.

Offline I was trying to help George and I asked him to post this question.  According to the wiring diagrams there is something called a "Rear Distribution" with 10 relay and 16 fuses.  These would include relays and fuses for the rear turn signal/stop lights, engine ECM, Transmission computer and the battery charging power for the trailer plug connector.  Does anyone know where the "Rear Distribution" fuses/relays are located? (BTW, the owners manual doesn't mention it but the wiring diagrams show it.)

Here are a few pages taken out of the HWH Operators manual.  Basically all jacks (if the coach has that option) and all slides except the X slides need to be retracted when checking oil level. 

In practice, having all slides retracted will be close enough unless you are completely filling the tank which you shouldn't do.  Warm oil needs room to expand.

HWH Operators Manual - How to check oil level.pdf

A few days ago, I received a call from Cade, an electronics technician, at M&M RV Electronics. 

Cade was the person most familiar with the evaluation of the dash switch modules from Brett’s coach.  He explained that the information I received when I spoke with Chris last June was not completely accurate.

Cade told me that the circuit boards were removed from all the modules for visual inspection and testing but they likely got mixed up with other circuit boards on their test bench when the modules were reassembled.  When the modules were reassembled, the thought was that all slave circuit boards were the same.  Yes, visually they look exactly the same but they are software programmed differently.  When the boards got mixed up and wrong boards got installed in some of the slave modules returned to Brett.

To correct this error, M&M sent me ALL their dash switch modules and circuit boards they had at their shop.  After testing, yes, the missing circuit boards from Brett’s coach were among the other 24 boards they sent.   However, Brett’s missing boards did have corrupted software so they wouldn’t work but the slave numbers were readable so I know they very likely came out of Brett’s coach.

Honest mistakes do happen. I’m happy that M&M did the right thing by calling me to explain what happened and they returned the original circuit boards. The other failed extra dash switch modules and boards they sent me, once repaired, will be added to my inventory of working modules and help replace failed modules on other coaches faster.

Going forward M&M is very happy that there is someone out there who can repair these modules. They now know where to refer coach owners for getting Eaton E30 dash switch modules repaired on Kongsberg Chassis multiplex coaches.

Cade, thanks again for taking the initiative in calling me to explain what happened and for sending me your inventory of Eaton E-30 dash switch modules and spare parts/boards.

On an 08 Dynasty it should be on the shelf just below the windshield accessible by opening the dash cover above the instrument cluster.

1 hour ago, pwhittle said:

Hi Frank,

What inverter let you do that? I have a Magnum MS2812..

I get well over 1V difference between the Inverter voltage and the BMK voltage under high current, like running the microwave.

Paul

Yes, I have the Magnum MS2812 and yes, before adding a dedicated sensing wire, I'd see the same voltage drop at the AGS module because Monaco tapped into the battery voltage at the Magnum inverter instead of a dedicated battery sensing wire.

11 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

THIRD, @Frank McElroy did a little “rewring”.  I don’t remember exactly why, but he changed it so the actual REMOTE reading has less LOSS.  He will have to chime in.

THATS MY UNDERSTANDING and the explanation and logic of how to properly set the AGS from the remote….

NOW, you see, if your mind took months like mine did to develop snd understand the above scenario……why Magnum decided NOT to “tell the average” owner….but in detailed discussions…..this is how it works…..and Trojan says….when the Under Load voltage….which is NOT the true or recovery voltage…..usually 0.10 - 0.20….you set the AGS to come on 0.1 below that….

 

The AGS gets the battery voltage from the large 12 volt battery cable connected to the inverter.  To remove the voltage drop on this line, I connected a dedicated battery sensing wire from the house battery bank to the AGS.

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

That 'IS' the greatest nightmare isn't it!

Having a huge, expensive, boat anchor sitting in your driveway!!

Back in 2008-9, Monaco made one of the highest quality motor coaches out there at a very reasonable price point. 

Unfortunately, they made a few bad business decisions and the economy turned south - the rest is history. 

Chassis multiplex systems were the next generation - cars already had it 20 year before.  Engines evolved from mechanical to electronic - house wiring evolved from conventional to Intellitec multiplex systems - the next logical step was the chassis conventional to Kongsberg multiplex. 

Today. most high end diesel pusher motor coaches have chassis multiplex systems.  Had Monaco stayed in business, the transition would be no different than the conversion from conventional to house Intellitec multiplex system with parts availability and shops to service it. 

Over time, all the old stock of Eaton dash switch modules and CCM's were depleted.  Luckily, I was able to figure out how to repair failed dash switch modules and reprogram them all with a huge thanks to two other members of this forum who stepped forward and loaned me their working modules.  CCM module rarely if ever fail unless hit by lightning.   The major issue with the front CCM was a fix I found to the failed 5 volt supply to the smart wheel keypads.  Added the external 5 VDC supply has fixed dozens of coaches with SmartWheel issues.

It's great to see these wonderful motor coaches on the road and NOT as park models.   

BTW, if someone has a bath and a half 2008-9 single owner garage queen Signature for sale, please PM me. 

On 4/17/2024 at 10:11 AM, Bar SR Ranch said:

Thanks to Bob Mackie (Bob125) I was able to purchase one master and two slave modules from him, those 3 plus 5 other modules that I have are headed to Frank to be checked to confirm they are all working correctly.

Hopefully after I get all of the modules back from Frank and correct some wiring the coach will be back to OEM.

 

Well I just finished another project.  Of the one master and 5 slave plus 2 spare slave modules, only one slave tested bad.  A circuit board from one of the spare slave modules was reprogrammed to replace the bad one.  Steve also wanted the window shade option programmed into a module that had a blank slot.  Also made up a few missing cables and sent spare connectors and crimp pins to repair other damaged connectors.  The set of working modules was sent to Steve today.

The 20 amp fuse labeled SCER (step cover extend retract), relays SCE (step cover extend) and SCR (step cover retract) are circled in red and are on the large PCB in the FRB.

Are the labels lit up on the switch module rockers?  If not, press and hold the Dimmer + rocker to make them brighter.  If all the rocker labels light, then the switch module is likely good.  If the switch module does not light up, send me a PM (I can repair Eaton multiplex dash switch modules).

If the switch module does light up, check the step cover fuse and associated relays in the FRB (Front Run Bay) below the driver's seat. (By step slide, I'm assuming you mean step slide cover.)

27000652_B Vehicle Cabin PCB.pdf

On 5/1/2024 at 7:03 AM, Newcsn said:

@Frank McElroy Thanks for your feedback! However, is it possible my Dynasty may be one of those snowflakes? When I turn OFF the step switch the only thing it does is keep the step extended when the coach isn’t running. It will not keep the step retracted. I experimented w/ it both ways.

My solution was to unplug the motor w/ the steps retracted. Then when we got ready to head north I reached under & plugged the steps back in.

And @Tom Cherry, we employ your procedure of keeping the steps extended when we’re parked & don’t have the constructed steps.

Thanks again!

I just tested mine.  With the steps retracted, ignition OFF and door closed, while inside the coach, I turned the step switch to OFF and the steps stay retracted when the door opens.  If the door is open with the steps out and I shut off the step switch the steps will stay out whether the door is opened or closed.  If the step switch is turned ON, the steps will extend when the door opens and retract when the door is closed.  That's how the system was designed to work and that's what mine does.  

If you're following the proper procedure I described above and the steps still come out when you open the door, you likely have a wiring or switch control issue.

It's been a few months, so I thought I would post another update.

Since the original project of bringing Brett's old coach, now owned by Jim, back to life, I've repaired Eaton dash switch modules on 7 other coaches.  Some were one off slave module failures and others were master and sometimes multiple slave module failures.  Once repaired, the owners were obviously thrilled to see their system come back to life.

But why are these switch modules failing?

Sure, if struck by lightning electronic components can and do fail.  However, the root cause in almost all other cases is that the house batteries were allowed to slowly drain below 4 VDC.  So you say, how can that happen?  Well many times it's because the coach was at a service center, not plugged in and the house battery disconnect switch was left ON.  Or, the coach was plugged into shore power and the house batteries slowly went dead because they weren't being charged and the owner never noticed.  (On a Kongsberg chassis multiplex coach, dash switch modules are powered by the house - not the chassis batteries.)

For all owners of Kongsberg chassis multiplex systems - it's absolutely critical that the house batteries never be allowed to go dead.  If the dash switch modules are between 0-4 VDC for more than 5 minutes, the Master or Slave modules likely will be damaged.

This is how your Dynasty should work:

With the entry door closed and the steps retracted, turn OFF the step switch.  This should keep the steps in when the door is open or closed.  However, if the engine ignition is turned ON and the door is opened, it will override the step OFF switch setting and extend the steps.

If you have the door open with the steps extended and you turn the step switch OFF, the steps will stay extended when the door open or closed.

16 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

For my front axle I used a pair of 12 ton juck stands from Harbor Freight and sat them on solid concrete blocks to get the height to support the front of the coach. (Aired the coach all the way up, stacked the concrete blocks, placed jack stands on the blocks, raised the jack to meet the house frame, aired down about an inch settling on the stands and used a 6 ton bottle jack to manipulate the axle as needed.)  So that was 48,000 lb capacity for the 15,000 lb front axle so I figured it was within limits.  For the rear I could sit the stands on the floor.

PS: It was not fun getting to those top bag nuts and 1 1/4 inch airline "flared nut" broken loose.  Never could get a regular 1 1/4 inch open end on the air line but shorter crescent wrench and cheater pipe could wiggle enough in the tight space.  Once the nuts were cracked free they would spin off fairly easy with just my fingers.  And after managing to get the 1 1/4 airline "bushing/male flared fitting" through the hole in the plate with all the appropriate encouraging words I could think of, I took an emery cylinder on my drill and cleaned up the plate hole just a tad to assist in reassembly.  I'll conclude with hoping the new bags have a longer life expectancy than me!

Keep in mind that jack stands are rated as a pair - not individually unless they are individually stamped.  A pair of 12 ton jack stands would be rated for 24,000 lbs, not 48,000 lbs.  Even at 24,000 lbs, you were still above the 15,000 lb front axle weight.

The other possibility is that the filter size is undersized for the engine.  If you post a few pictures, folks with the same model year would chime in and comment if your setup is correct.

If you don't find a restriction, it's possible that under load, a hose is collapsing.

On 4/10/2024 at 7:51 PM, Michael Powell said:

Hate to be a be paain't but do you have pictures of them??

Just follow the large air hoses form the 4 front air bags.  The 4 large are hoses go to each end of the 2 ping tanks located up high next to the frame rail centered between the steer airbags on each side.

This article is worth a thousand words.  It has all the info including pictures that you need to distinguish between a conventional and Kongsberg system.

Today these once obsolete dash switch modules used in the Kongsberg system can now be repaired.

Kongsberg started with 2008 Signature and mid 2008 Dynasty.  These systems will only have one large circuit board.  Since OP mentioned boards, he would have a conventional system.

Circuit boards are basically only available from salvage yards.  There is nothing really special about these boards.  Individual components and relays are available from electronic supply houses.  Circuit diagrams are available in our Downloads under wiring diagrams.  Since you are capable of doing circuit board repair, you should be just fine.

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

My alternator bit the dust on my way south this winter! Luckily my BIRD / Big Boy is functional!

I just ran my generator the rest of the way, and replaced my alternator at my destination.

Yes, that's a great example of understanding how all the systems in your coach work together and if there is an issue, how to solve the problem as you did.

Years ago, I got a call at about 10:30 PM from a person who I knew and I thought that there must be a problem so I took the call.  He was on the side of the road on a dark rainy night, with no headlights, dash gauges, or interior lights but with the engine running, and waiting hours for a tow.   His domestic engineer was very scared to say the least. 

Since I know he had a Kongsberg chassis multiplex coach, with the house batteries powering the dash gauges, headlights and interior lights, I told him that his Big Boy failed and to just jumper the chassis batteries to the house batteries to start the generator.

That's exactly what he did and a few minutes later, his domestic engineer was thrilled at getting back power to the coach - tow was cancelled and he drove home.

It's all about understanding how all the systems work together and what to do if there is a problem.

12 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Don't know, but I've read of owners using different devices wedged under the switch!

Can't recall ever using the boost switch myself, but, I keep my batteries reasonably fresh!

Yes, over the years I've seen the same posts about owners using different devices to hold the battery boost switch ON.  A very bad idea - that's the main reason why I decided to post why not to do it.

As it turned out, the new owner had 2 boards from the previous owner with the same exact failure.  He now has 2 repaired boards.  One he's using and one as a spare for future use if ever needed.

On 4/21/2024 at 8:31 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Just to clear the air and set the record straight.  Frank is the only person that has successfully repaired the K’B CCM switch modules.  Frank took this on as a “personal” challenge maybe a year of so ago.  He had helped some recover functions and started to understand the MPX system.  The saga or story of how he was able to “download and reprogram or fix” any of the components” is documented in the topics.  Do a search of KONGSBERG” and select TOPICS.  He has posted the “gist” of his journey.  He set up a “bench” line where he had a complete CCM system breadboarded together and had every function, as in the output signals to EVERY K’B controlled component, working.  With that rig, he can diagnose any issue.  He also was able to download and store every module’s program.  Memory says there are at least 7 or 8 discrete chip programs for the system.

Then, he developed a method to remove the “chip”, which is surface mounted on each device….and replace with a new, virgin unprogrammed chip….with precision as the 28 (memory) contacts….7 per side…placement has to be within maybe 0.003”.  Once replaced, then he has the ability to reprogram the chip with the OEM program….making it 100% functional.  In some cases, I think he has also repaired other items or restored a faulty “trace”.  

There are no other shops or individuals in the US that have accomplished this….much less have a smattering of his technology and expertise. It has been a “life saver” for our members.  There is a 30+ page topic here of how a member bought a “salvaged” MH and had the moxie to make it quasi roadworthy…as in drive it home.  The switches had been “tested” by another shop, only to discover that the original switches sent in, many of which were known good, were NOT returned and were replaced with defective ones.  THUS, that shop is one that we now have concerns about.

The above is the gist of how this saga ended and Frank is the only person to persevere and develop the methodology as well as fabricate the jig for replacement and also “crack the code”….as in learned how, with many hours of experiments and also totally drew up a schematic of the boards…to get a copy of the programs.

This is a feat beyond all electronics comprehension unless one was there, via emails, texts, photos as well as many phone calls…..which I was fortunate enough to be involved.

As Paul Harvey would say…..now you know the REST OF THE STORY….

Tom - Thanks for the kind words.  Yep, this was a bit of a challenge - but I like electronic challenges. 

For folks interested in the saga of how I learned how to repair the Kongsberg Chassis multiples system (including a detailed technical PDF file), read the link below starting about in the middle of page 11 (if you start on page 1 your will read the whole story of all the twists and turns).  Oh BTW, my coach doesn't have a Kongsberg system - my interest was in helping other members and maybe in the future getting a bath and a half coach with such a system and being able to repair it.