Frank McElroy

19 minutes ago, trstaska said:

How much?

See the first line in the first post.

48 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I'd replace the entire dryer!

Great advice - This dryer had evidence of corrosion beyond repair.

15 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

Please give an example of a non moly grease?

Most any NLGI 2 Lithium complex grease would be a good choice.  I use Mobil MOBILITY SHC 220.  It takes me less than one tube of grease to grease all 27 grease fittings on my tag axle coach.  After greasing I wipe off all the excess grease from each grease joint.  I still use an old long handle grease gun that I bought back over 50 years ago.

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

You need to do your search on the "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" Facebook site. (Not the "Monaco RV Owners" Facebook site.)

I think a bit more background history on the Facebook Monaco Group name change is in order.

The original Facebook  "Monaco RV Owners Group", formed on 8/31/2017, changed its name to "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" about 2 days ago.  This is a private moderated group that screens members and reviews content much like we do.

Back on 7/14/23, a couple of members banned from the original FB group, decided to form a new public unmoderated Facebook group called "Monaco RV Owners" and so far Facebook has allowed the virtually identical name to stay.  For that reason, the original group decided to add "1st" to their original name.

44 minutes ago, eddie4ne said:

Please help! I am unable to find the file. What am I doing wrong?

You need to do your search on the "1st Monaco RV Owners Group" Facebook site. (Not the "Monaco RV Owners" Facebook site.)

1 hour ago, Kent Madison said:

On my 09 holiday rambler navigator Bismark 4 the dash AC works some times and not some times. I had the same problem with the wipers so I installed the 5V fix and that corrected the wiper problem. I am wondering if the Dash AC is also ran through the front CCM and if the low voltage that front CCM is providing could be part of the problem. I have checked all the fuses and they are good and I put in a new AC condenser fan a few months ago. Getting ready to travel south for a few weeks and would really like the AC working.  Any suggestion on if I need to add the 5Volt fix to the front AC CCM wires like I did for the wipers?

Thanks

On your coach, the HVAC gets power from the 30 amp fuse VCE5/6 on the large PCB in the FRB.  It is not powered through the CCM like the wipers.

Two words of caution:

1) NEVER use anything other than a hand grease gun on the TRW gearbox shaft output grease fitting.  If you use a high pressure grease gun, you will force grease past the internal seal and into the hydraulic oil.

2) NEVER use moly grease on your drum brake slack adjusters - it's too slippery and the slack adjusters won't function properly.

20 hours ago, Makalu said:

So I just did as you recommended. I ran an inline 20amp fuse and connected 12vdc to the ECM wire. I just used the fuse as my "switch" if you will. 

Then I just touched a wire from a 12vdc power source to the starter solenoid you circled in red and it fired right up. NO "Eng Comm Failure" on the dash and it didn't die at all in the 15min or so I idled it and revved it up slightly. So this clearly seems to indicate some type of issue with the board, specifically that K1 relay.

One question I have is; I have no other fuse lights lit up in the rear run box when it's running now (I honestly don't recall if they are when the motor was running when the PCB board WAS working). Is that indicative of anything? Would I be able to drive the coach like this, temporarily of course?

I greatly appreciate your insight, Frank. You are a legend. 

 

Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad you were able to start the coach engine.

Yes, your coach is driveable.

As for all the other LED lights being out in the RRB, the left side of the circuit on the board you removed has a MOSFET that's used to power all the LEDs on all the boards in the RRB. 

So, without this power supply, none of the other LEDs on those boards will light but all the boards should function just fine.  If you look closely at the wiring diagram of the board you removed, there is a label called TEST.  You will see this label on all the other boards in the RRB wiring diagrams. All locations labelled "TEST" are connected together.  Basically the purpose of all those LEDs lighting up is to test to visually show that those individual circuits have power without the need of a voltmeter.

I thought why add more complexity to the procedure to start and run the engine with yet another set of procedures to build a circuit to operate those fancy wow indicator lights that you really don't need unless you are trying to troubleshoot problems in the RRB.

Glad you're getting to the bottom of the comm error problem.  I think your likely issue is the K1 relay or associated pcb connections.

Ok, I think I figured it out.  Look at the circuit board schematic.  On that board the wire on J4 sends 12 vdc power to the engine ECM when the ignition has been turned on.  So, if relay K1 is starting to go bad, the ECM will lose the ignition signal - that's likely your problem.

That means you also need to connect a wire through a 20 amp fuse from 12VDC to the wire that was on terminal J4.  This will tell the ECM that that ignition is turned on.  That wire would need to either be switched or disconnected when the engine is off.

Now it makes sense as to why this board is causing your problem.  Should be an easy fix for the candy shop.

2 minutes ago, Makalu said:

This is what I was wondering about. But upon investigating the 3 position rocker switch that you can select "Front, off, Rear" with, I noticed it killing power to every board in the back run box and initiating a "Eng Comm Failure" dash warning. Even the guages up front were cycling from zero to full and back repeatedly until I turned the ignition off again. All I was doing with the switch was making sure it was set right on the PCB board. Then after replacing it I still had the issue. Then pressing slightly upon the board itself would sporadically kill power to the whole rear run box, literally every fuse light flickering off and on.  Needless to say, it has me puzzled.

It could be that something was pulling down the ignition signal when you pressed on it.  You'll know tomorrow when you try the test start.

7 minutes ago, Makalu said:

Would it make sense to you that I have this issue with the motor just shutting off on me if that intellitec board is going bad? Then displaying an "Eng Comm Failure" on my dash when it does? Even had a friend come out and plug in his Cummins Insite to the coach and he saw a code for an "Intermittent Ignition Power Loss" or something worded similar.

It has made the coach undriveable as you can imagine.

I'm a bit surprised that this board would in effect cause the equivalent of cycling the ignition switch when you pressed on it.  I don't see on the ignition switch schematic where the ignition feeds through this board to the engine ECM.  If it does, then my trick to turn on the ignition and jumper that 12 VDC wire to the relay terminal won't work to start the engine.  If it doesn't work, I'll investigate more.

Most times an intermittent ignition loss signal is an ignition switch going bad. 

Com failure means that the dash cluster computer lost communication with the engine ECM because of a databus issue or an ignition lost signal to the engine ECM.

41 minutes ago, Makalu said:

Great, I will try this tomorrow. Thanks Frank. You are a wealth of information! Curious where you came across the schematics for a 2008 Navigator? I'd love to have them.

They are the same as the dynasty/signature.  They are in our Downloads, under Electrical, Wiring diagrams.

41 minutes ago, Makalu said:

Great, I will try this tomorrow. Thanks Frank. You are a wealth of information! Curious where you came across the schematics for a 2008 Navigator? I'd love to have them.

Your other option is to turn on the ignition and use a wire to touch the starter relay lug circled in red to a 12 volt source.  This will crank the starter and start the engine.  If you want, just use the 12 volt wire that was on R1 that you removed.  Just touch it to the starter relay terminal circled in red.

21 minutes ago, Makalu said:

Thanks a bunch. If I'm understanding correctly I need to still have the board to bypass it? Unfortunately I already shipped the board off to get diagnosed/repaired.

No, you don't  need the board.  You just add a fuse between pins 2 and 4 on connector J2 that would plug into the board.  

Add a 15 amp fuse on connector J2 between pins 2 and 4.  This will in effect bypass this board.

38031552 (Schematic, Keyswitch Ignition).pdf 38040024 (Schematic, RRB Board 1).pdf

The S connections are internal to the wiring harness.  You'll need to follow the wire to find it.

From what you are describing, it sounds like a poor ground on the parking/signal light assembly.

Reboot the Intellitec multiplex system by either cycling the battery cutoff switch or disconnecting the house batteries.  Also, reset the aquahot system at the control board in the aquahot bay.  

3 minutes ago, John C said:

Yes, I looked at the manual, but the problem is I am having a hard time locate the P8 harness connector

 

OK, Frank @Frank McElroy, I just crawled under the coach and tested the voltage again, this time when DW was pushing the start, here is the voltage

12.4V -before DW push the start button outside the generator

11.4V to 11.7V- kept hearing the click Click

8V to 9V-> heard the crank sound , this last very short period of time, probably 1 second or less

11.4V to 11.7V- kept hear the click Click

8V to 9V-> heard the crank sound , this last very short period of time, probably 1 second or less

12.4v -> Generator started

I didn't time this, seems to be very long, definitely more than 10 seconds

Please let me know what you think.

Thank you

 

 

You have a voltage drop problem like Tom Cherry thought early on.  Please go back and reread his earlier posts.  A bad cable connection, bad batteries, or bad ground.  Check cables for a voltage drop like Myron suggested.

18 minutes ago, MyronTruex said:

Frank is getting right to the heart of it. Get to the wires on the back of the generator. Showing 12.7 volts on them without the generator turning over is nearly useless information. Not quite though.

IF your voltage as measured right in the middle of the bolts holding the wires drops, then you need to get your voltmeter negative lead to a clean ground and put your positive lead in the middle of the negative bolt on the generator. IF any voltage shows up while cranking and you are measuring the ground post, you have a bad ground.

Don't use the wire terminals of the wires to make the measurements. You need to dig the meter into the bolts ends. I actually sharpen my voltmeter probes to nearly a needle sharpness. Yes this can play heck with my fingers but it really assures me of getting a good measurement.

IF you can't find a decent ground for the meter. Use a wire brush or sandpaper and make one. You need to be sure your measurements are valid.

 

Exactly.  Until John posts real data under load, the 12.7 volt measurement means nothing. Unless he has a voltage measurement between the +12 and ground connections at the generator (not frame ground) he has not proven that the generator is seeing 12 volts while the generator is starting.

4 minutes ago, Goodtimes said:

How to ID the type of Intellic system? Programable or not? Mine has a Mx control master p/n 00-00837-000.

 

Thanks

That master is NOT programmable.

Here is a link to a very good document in our files that explains the two different Intellitec multiplex systems.  One is programmable and one is not.

3 hours ago, John C said:

Yes, I did test that connection and that one is very consistent 12.7V when unplugged

Since you confirmed that you are getting 12.7 volt power to the generator, my best advice is for you to follow the trouble shooting section 12.7 in the Onan service manual. 

BUT - PLEASE FIRST POST THE BATTERY VOLTAGE WHILE PRESSING THE START SWITCH ON THE GENERATOR WITH THE VOLTMETER CONNECTED TO THE GENERATOR POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE BATTERY TERMINALS AT THE BACK OF THE GENERATOR.

See sections 12-1 and 12-2 on pages 61 and 62 in the attached Onan manuals link - you want the service manual. 

Earlier, I attached a Monaco schematic of the remote controls including the Intellitec interface.

The battery connections you want to test are on the BACK of the generator where the large +12 and Ground cables are connected.

12 hours ago, John C said:

@Tom Cherry I already run a voltage test from the cable nuts connector outside the generator, it was 13.6V when I connected to the shore power, when I am not connected shore power, it was 12.7V. when I pressed the switch outside the generator, the voltage connector to the engine was 0-10v->11.5v -> higher (when the switch is press, when switch not pressed, it was 0)

If you are saying that with the voltmeter is connected to the battery cables on the back of the generator, the voltage goes to zero when you press the start switch on the generator, it means you either have dead coach batteries, or high resistance in one of 12 volt cables from the chassis battery bank or the ground cable connecting the generator to the chassis frame is bad.

First try connecting the voltmeter ground to the chassis frame, not the ground lug on the generator.  A loose generator ground cable would show the voltage readings you are seeing provided your voltmeter was actually on the +12 and ground connections on the generator.

If you are still having a sync problem, you'll need to trace wiring to be sure the Intellitec system is getting proper generator input signals.

38070198 (Schematic, Gen Start, Auto Temp).pdf

9 hours ago, John C said:

Hi,Frank @Frank McElroy,

It is totally reverse the behavior it is suppose to be, it should be off when generator no on and should be on when generator is on.

With the generator off, reboot the Intellitec CPU by either cycling the battery cutoff switch or disconnect the batteries.  This should bring the keypad indicator light back in sync with the generator being ON/OFF.

15 hours ago, Garrett said:

Update. Per Franks recommendation I bypassed CB and all worked. Installed new CB and all is good with ac/ heater/ fan. Thanks Frank

Now on to figuring monitor out. 

Thanks for the update and details on the troubleshooting to repair the problem.  This is the first time I can recall that Circuit Breaker ever going bad.  Good detective work.

Did you need to remove the circuit board to replace the CB?