waterskier_1

Just a reminder,  you have to have air pressure for the brake lights to work. 

  - Rick N 

On 5/16/2024 at 3:22 PM, Scotty Hutto said:

I’ll jump back in with my experience.  In our coach we almost always use the water tank / pump option, and just fill the tank up with city water.  Pressure is always higher for the first few seconds after opening a faucet (any of them, but especially the shower!). As a mechanical engineer, I can tell you this is a normal phenomenon.  You notice it more in the coach than at home because the PEX piping is slightly less rigid than copper or PVC piping, and the amount of unsupported piping in the coach allows it more “expansion” under pressure when the faucets are all closed. Once a faucet is opened, the pressure causing the “expansion” is relieved giving you that burst of higher pressure water.

The other thing that can contribute to this is if there is a restriction somewhere in your piping (think a crimped pipe or clogged pipe).  With faucets closed, pressure build up to the city water pressure (say 45 psi), once the faucet is opened this pressure is relieved, and due to the restriction flow (and pressure) are reduced until the facet is closed.  The *worst* culprits for this are the cheap water “barrel type” pressure reducers.  They reduce pressure by restricting flow through an orifice.  They aren’t the only cause, just the most common.  It could be something as simple as a hose washer with a clogged screen, or pipe that’s crimped or crushed.

Hope that helps.

I would think gits plausible for plumbing in coaches without an expansion tank.  I would think the expansion tank would significantly reduce that effect though. 

  - Rick N 

You got me curious, so I just looked mine up also.  June 2019 I paid $282.51 - $58.45 = $224.06 for two Group 31 batteries.

In February 2024 I paid $384.77 -$58.69 = $326.08 for the exact same batteries, but I did purchase the second set in Phoenix, with a slightly higher sales tax. 

In the last 2 - 3 years batteries (as with almost everything) have gone way up - 45% in this case.  But, they were still the cheapest Group 31 batteries I could find at the time - including Sam's Club and Costco.  Note that I'm west of the Mississippi, and have been told that battery products are different, so my experience may be different from those on the east side.

  -Rick N.  

Did you see Tom Cherry's post on the check valve being the problem?  I have had many similar problems which were the check valve.  You can do a "quick & dirty" check by simply tripping the TPV (also called the T&P Valve - the Temperature and Pressure Valve) and noting if the water flow from the water heater is normal, or reduced.  Be careful, that will be very hot water shooting out if the heater has been on.

  -Rick N.  

I just replaced both my Group 31 batteries this past winter.  The best price I found was Batteries Plus.  Looking at my records, the price almost doubled from the price I paid 5 years ago, for the same batteries also from Batteries Plus - the best price I could find at that time also.

  -Rick N.

The Inverter/Charger is what charges the House Batteries.  That can be powered from either Shore Power or the Generator.  

Monaco was not consistent with which battery bank the generator started from, and there is still ongoing opinions as to which bank it "should" start from.  I've provided my opinion before, but to answer your question, the only real way is to turn off the battery disconnect switch for one of the banks, and see if the generator starts, if not (assuming the batteries and connections are good), that is the bank the generator starts.  

  -Rick N.

If you need two AC outputs, then this will not work (without rewiring the coach).  The model you needed is 81-2020-12.  I can't determine that the remotes or wiring are interchangeable. 

  - Rick N 

What manufacturer hydraulic jack system do you have.  

  - Rick N 

I didn't see where you connected the positive probe in the pictures.  It would be interesting to purees on the same place with a small screwdriver.  I'm wondering is where you are applying pressure is has a bad or dirty connection, and the pressure is making better contact? 

- Rick N 

Tucson,  AZ 

4 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Yes, if leaving the house batteries disconnected eliminates the issue, that is a big step.  The boost/BIRD should not do this, because that would not get power to the ignition circuit without the key on.  The circuit board would be a better place to start. Especially since you say it started up the first time normally, and then would not shut off, and had been started normally a month ago, and had no work done this year.  Had there been any other work done in the last year? even inside the coach if not on or near the wiring?

I also wonder if the "Big Boy" solenoid (relay) contacts may have "welded" themselves together?  You might be able to check this with the engine off, shore power disconnected, solar (if anydisconnected. This should ensure that there are no charging sources to energize the Big Boy fits the BIRD system.  In this case, check the voltage on each side of the Big Boy to ground, they will likely be different I'd the contacts are open.  It is unlikely that both banks would be at the same voltage.  Also remember that the Big Boy I'd energized by the Battery Boost switch on the dash too. 

  - Rick N 

Tucson, AZ 

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

It's been a while since I looked at the old RV30 controller's amperage since it is now only charging chassis batteries but I remember seeing 7A back when it was still hooked up to both banks with factory panel and my understanding was that the current was split between the banks as needed, based on dip switch settings. 

From the RV-30 manual 

Quote

It is literally two charge controllers in one, and as such, the RV-30D allocates the charge to both the house and the engine batteries simultaneously. The “Engine” battery charging circuit is limited to 3 amps with a state-of-charge fixed at 13.4 VDC. The “House” battery charging circuit can deliver up to 30 amps with a selectable state-of-charge from 13.2VDC to 14.6 VDC.

Note this is not a smart charge controller.  The engine output voltage is fixed at 13.4 VDC (around Float voltage) and the House is user adjustable, by Dip Switches, to a fixed voltage between 13.2 to 14.6 VDC.

Note that on Solar controllers, the current rating it typically the OUTPUT Current, and the Power being delivered is the Output Current multiplied by the Charge Voltage (not just the nominal 12 volts) which would be the voltage you choose between 13.2 and 14.6 Volts.  

Note that with PWM, it just switches On/Off the input voltage to maintain the set charge voltage.  So, anything more than the charge voltage put the device overhead (typically 3 - 5 volts) is just thrown away.  That is the beauty of MPPT controllers, they can use what would have been excess voltage, and provide additional charge current.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

  -Rick N.

Tucson, AZ

Doubtful that REV, who bought Monaco, will have any data that old.  Even if they did, that original paint color would not match your 23 year old faded paint.   It is best to get it computer scanned to match the existing color.  Often you can just remove the refrigerator cover ant take that in for scanning. 

  - Rick N 

Tucson, AZ 

If you remove the wires from the ignition switch, and then manually connect (touch in the case of START) and then disconnect them manually, and the engine still runs, it would eliminate the ignition switch as a cause.   Next, I would temporarily disconnect all the small wires from the alternator (yes it won't work in this configuration) and test again.  If it is a problem in the alternator or is wiring keeping the IGNITION circuit hot, it would only be hot when the alternator is producing electricity.  If it is in the Ignition Switch & that wiring, then it would be hot even when the engine is not running (no power from the alternator).

  - Rick N 

Tucson,  AZ

As Tom mentioned, feedback can cause this.  I see it most often when an alternator is replaced with the incorrect one,  or wired incorrectly.   Has any wiring been recently done. 

  - Rick N 

Casa Grande,  AZ 

As Jim posted, the A/C Compressor belt is tensioned by the compressor mounting.  The idler pulls is for the alternator and likely the water pump/fan.

  - Rick N 

Yes, at least on Dynasty & Executive.  Each headlight is on a self-resetting circuit breaker.  They are located in the Front Run Bay. 

  - Rick N 

Casa Grande, AZ 

According to your Owners Manual, the A/C belt is a Dayco 15465 and the Alternator Belt is a Dayco 3911581.  This would imply you have two belts, one likely just for the A/C and the second for the alternator and water pump.  If this is the case, I doubt it was the A/C compressor that froze up, unless that belt also broke and took out the alternator belt.

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

Most of the original AquaTech pumps on Monaco’s did not come with an accumulator and the instructions as well as tech support said NOT needed or NOT TO BE USED.

 

I can't speak to the brand of the pumps, but I believe all Monaco Dynasty and up (Exec & Sig) came with accumulator tanks since the 1990's.  I know my '97 Dynasty had one, as does my 05 Exec.  I have not looked to see what brand pump I have - the Previous Owner replaced it in 2018, just before I bought it along with a lot of other items (new A/C and 10-button thermostats, new 600D Aquahot, new inverter and 1000 Watts Solar, Amish cooling core, Samsung microwave, all LED lighting inside, dash radio/monitor, GPS).   I know several other with Dynasty's or Exec's and all have accumulator (sometimes called "pressure" or "expansion") tanks.    

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

3 hours ago, Venturer said:

Rick, I think the short cycling is due to the start and cutoff pressures being set too close together. When I turn on a valve, the pump will run continuously till I shut the faucet off. Then it stops about a second or two later. With a faucet on, I can't detect any fluctuation in the pressure. 

Doug, I have no doubt, but I'm not sure if it is or how to adjust those set points.  The pumps I've used in the past didn't have adjustment, but did have rebuild kits.  I'll see if it is just a bad connector - if so, and I can repair without removing the tank itself, that's what I'll do. 

Doug, I had a leak on my pressure tank when I showed up to dry camp at Quartzsite.  I think it is the plastic connection into the tank, but I'm not sure.  I cut the line to the tank (it's the only line out of the water pump that doesn't go to the manifold) and capped it.  Be prepared (I wasn't) for a couple gallons of water to flow back out of the tank.  I can't easily get to mine, it's above the Aquahot valves.  I'm not sure if that was the original way it was installed, or if when the original Aquahot was replaced by the 600D things changed.  A new one is around $60 at home depot or lowes, and I plan on replacing mine when I get back home.

To answer your question, when I'm not running the water full on, instead of the water coming from the expansion tank until pressure decreased to a certain point, and the pump cycling on to recharge, the pump short-cycles every couple seconds, depending on the flow.  Washing my hands the pump may cycle 30 times for a couple seconds each time.  I don't think that's good on the pump, even if the total pump time were the same - I'm not sure that is true either.  I have read that some of the newer pumps are variable speed, and can compensate for no accumulator tank, but mine is not one of those.

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

48 minutes ago, lake49068 said:

The leveling system installed on my coach is a Lippert...may have different operating parameters than a 2005 Exec or other models/generations.  I went to the manual cited by Paul and it states:

"Drive-away Protection: When the ignition switch is set to the RUN position with the jacks extended, the JACKS DOWN indicator will light and the warning bell will activate if the transmission is taken out of park or the park brake is released. The system will then automatically retract all jacks until jacks are fully retracted or the park brake is reset and the transmission is placed in Park. A full visual inspection is required to confirm full retraction of jacks before moving motorhome."

My manual does not have this paragraph and I cited what's in mine in my previous post.  Not sure what model/year manual is to be reviewed on pages 127-129...mine covers the water system.  I'll make sure that I don't try to put the coach in gear if any of the slides are out or the jacks down.  That negates the need for a guaranteed response to my original question.  And do agree, the thread did go into the deep weeds!

That information pertains to Richard W,  and his 2006, Monaco Cayman.  He is the one who originally started this thread.  I was not responding to your questions which may have been different.  This is the problem when people post different questions or have different year/model coaches from that which is the original poster (OP),  To ensure this doesn't happen, and cause potential confusion to all readers, you should start a new posting with your specific info (question, year, model of coach).  This will also enable future searches for the problem/concern you have, which won't show up when interjected into a post of of a different problem/concern/year/model.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

That is not what i said, nor meant to say.  The slide position has nothing to do with starting not shifting into gear. Moving the slides is a function of the ignition lock out.  So once he got the slides in and the jacks up, he could shift into gear. I don’t think the slide position, as there is NOT a switch or feed back signal, when they are out or in, was related to the condition.  AKA not being to shift.

the other comment was to the issue of not being able to shift into gear. He said, it think, in a followup that he “COULD” or had been able to shift into gear with the jacks down or maybe I misunderstood.  My comment was that I would have thought that Monaco, from the wording, should  have had a “shift” lockout so that you couldn’t move the MH with the jacks down, more likely they must be fully retracted.  That would be a function of the ECM and the TCM.

Hope this clarifies it.

 

 

Yes it does.  FIY, here is what the OP asked in Post #1 

Quote

If I am parked with the slide outs out, and the stabilizers down, should I be able to start the Cummins and let it warm up?

He didn't asks about moving the slides with the engine running, or driving with the jacks down, only if he should be able to start the engine when parked, with the slide outs out.  I think we should be careful not to confuse the issue, especially with inexperienced (based upon his original question) with information overload.

  -Rick N.

On 2/26/2024 at 3:57 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Bottom line, sort of repeating the folks that provided information.  There is a IGNITION slide lock interface or relay that prevents the slides to move if the  ignition switch is on.  
 

So, you have to get the slides in to start the engine for travel. There are, I THINK, some later Dynasty (circa 2007 and up), where you CAN retract the slides with the engine running. That is programmed into the logic or program of the Intellitec CPU Multiplex system (MPX). You can NOT extend the slides with the engine running for the obvious reasons.
 

@whaley96raw , Your rig does not have that system and is “simple” and Monaco used an ignition lock out relay to disable the control voltage or signal from the switches to operate the slide mechanism.

Tom, you do not have to "get the slides in to start the engine".  As I mentioned above, you can and must start the engine with the slides out, to air up to coach BEFORE moving the slides.  Let not get in the weeds as to interlocks and such, or if you can drive the coach with the slides out.  As a last resort, he should RTFM, which clearly describes who the extend and retract the slides on pages 127 - 129.

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

OFF HAND, I think there is two different conditions.  I suspect there are two circuits and you need to look at the prints. The slides are NOT supposed to move when the engine is running.  Now, check that.  Engine on Ignition ON slide lock out relay disables the controls to the slide.  Test to verify.

Next…slides IN…jacks Down and extended.  You should NOT be able to start the engine.  Test that.  I don’t know if there is a “fully retracted switch” or signal in the circuit…but from you posted, it would be logical, to raise and fully retract the slides.  If that is the case….then all is well.  It may be partially retracted…I don’t know…

I think things are OK…

All coaches I have owned or worked on with the RVA Jacks can be started with the Jack Down.  I do it all the time at my house, to air up the coach to extend the slide, or to air up the coach to retract the slides, and then dump the air and I'm back to level on the jacks.  There is no interlock preventing the coach from being started.  Now, I must admit, I have never tried to drive the coach off with the jacks are down.  There are alarms that I pay attention to, and don't shut off until the jacks are retracted.  When the jacks are down, they are bonging when I start the engine, and the whole time I'm airing up the coach.   just as they should.

I think there may confusion between the OP question of STARTING the coach, versus some people "reading" DRIVING the coach, which I have done for short distances to get a satellite view for my Dish in tree shaded spots.  I don't recommend or advocate driving it, but there is nothing in the Pre-MultiPlex coaches (2005 or older) that prohibits putting it in gear (both forward and reverse) with the slides out.  Now, I don't *think* I can move the slides with the engine running, but I have never tried since the manual says not to.  I have also not jumped out of an airplane to confirm "terminal velocity".

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

Yes, you must start it to raise it to Travel Mode BEFORE you retract the slides.  Some hydraulic Jacks retract when the ignition switch is turned on, most don't.  I've found that some that did were not supposed to, and the culprit was the Nasson Switch under the Park Brake which would inadvertently signal that the parking brake was no longer engaged, and the jack would raise.  

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ

On 2/1/2024 at 10:07 PM, John C said:

I am in the process of upgrade the whole electric system - lithium batteries, Victron Inverter Charge, DC to DC Charge etc.

My 2007 Dynasty has BATT BOOST:
The Battery Boost switch is used if the motorhome chassis battery is too low to start the engine. Use Battery Boost to momentarily “jump” the house batteries for extra battery
charge.

So if I replace the Magnum with Victron, will this BATT BOOS still work? or this function is tight with Magnum Inverter?

Please advise.

 

Thank you.

There have been many comments, many misleading by well intentioned people.  I didn't read all of them because I got frustrated with what I was reading.  

To answer your immediate question, the Battery Boost switch has nothing to do with your inverter.  Just make sure if you do use a Victron to get the MultiPlus II, which has dual input, dual output. 

Now on to some other things you might wish to consider (some may have been already answered in the previous 4 pages).  

• The Battery Boost switch energizes the Isolator Relay which some refer to as the "Big Boy".  The purpose of this large Relay (some call it a solenoid) is to directly connect the Chassis Batteries and the House Batteries together.
  • This can be energized by the dash mounted Battery Boost Switch or
  • This can also be energized by the BIRD (Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay) circuit.  
    • This circuit analyzes the voltage of both battery banks, and when either bank is over a pre-programmed value (around 13.5 volts) it the circuit will send an appropriate signal to energize the "Big Boy".  There is a Delay in sending this signal originally to allow the engine to come up to speed and thing to settle down (it was part of the original IRD, with was only an Isolator Relay Delay that only allowed the chassis battery charging (i.e., the main engine alternator) to energize the "Big Boy".  It was not Bi-Directional.  
    • Tom has stated that this circuitry is new for the multiplex system, and he may be right, I have never found a need to dive into the circuitry, since I recommend disconnecting it when you go to Lithium Batteries.  If you are not changing to Lithium, this is all a moot point - you would leave all as it was originally installed.

The rationale for disconnecting the BIRD is that it is only a dumb alternator output, which will try and maintain 14.2 - 14.4 volts all the time.  It has no provisions for determining any battery State Of Charge (SOC), much less the SOC of the House Batteries.  If you are like many, and leave your campsite where you had shore power, your House Batteries are likely fully charged.  It is not good for any battery to be held at 14.4 volts for hours on end as you drive to the next destination.  This is true of Lead Acid (Flooded or AGM) but much more critical with Lithium batteries.  I isolate Chassis and the House systems when I first got my coach, and it had relatively new AGM House Batteries.  This has not been a problem for me since I also have 1400 Watts of solar on the roof, with the original 100 Watt panel dedicated specifically to the Chassis Batteries, and the rest to the House Batteries, so I'm charging, if necessary, by solar as I drive.  If it were too cloudy, or I didn't start with charged House Batteries, I could start the generator while driving and use the Inverter/Battery Charger to recharge the House Batteries.  

While I have designed a circuit that allows me to engage the "Big Boy" with the Battery Boost switch while the BIRD is disconnected, I don't recommend doing so.  The rationale here is that the Lithium batteries found in most coaches will not shut down (not good, but not damaging) when you try to pull too much current.  Many are using two 100 A-Hr Lithium batteries, and many of those with cheaper BMS (Battery Management System) will only allow 0.5 C (meaning 50% of the battery capacity rating - 100 A-Hrs in this case) or 50 Amps in this case to be charged or discharged before they shut down (if this BMS didn't control this, the batteries would be destroyed).  Obviously two 50 Amp battery sources (100 Amps total) is not going to start a diesel engine, while at the same time recharging the Chassis batteries, which occurs as soon as the two banks are connected.  You would have to have over 750 A-Hr capacity, with newer higher end BMS that allow for 1.0C (100%) of their capacity to be drawn, and that might not be enough.  My recommendation is to use your or someone else's toad to just the chassis battery, or, if you have time, connect an external battery charger or charge the chassis batteries.

My recommendation for systems I design is unless you know you have a need to supplement the house batteries while driving, to wait on the DC-DC Charger.  It can quite easily be added later, and is independent of the rest of the systems, as far as interfacing is concerned.

Also, be aware that the Victron system don't have an AGS (Automatic Generator Start) that works directly with our Onan generators.  I have designed and recently installed 3 systems that will interface between the two.  Note that you'll need new remote monitoring, a Smart Shunt, or what I recommend, a Battery Monitor (which has a smart shunt plus additional functionality built-in).  I am NOT a fan of monitoring via Bluetooth only, but that is the direction that all four Solar Installers in Quartzsite are pushing.  It's cheaper, not just in electronics, you use your existing phone or tablet, but also in installation - there are no wires to run to a remote reading monitor.  Just another thing to think about.  

If you have other questions, please let me know.  

  -Rick N.

Casa Grande, AZ