waterskier_1

6 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Well now, you've got a LOT of information.  There is NO STANDARD or best way....whatever works for you as well as your needs and the restrictions on where you boondock.  I was asked to write up a paper on batteries....as I often offered advice....so here is the link.

FWIW....and this is MY opinion, however, it is also the opinion of a LOT of seasoned members.  Batteries are like "fine ladies".....and one's tastes will dictate....but also they have some needs, which can become quite high....  SO...This is MY TAKE....  and others may not agree or they have special situations.

Flooded cell batteries, especially the high end or the GOLD STANDARD (Trojan T-105) are the BEST and MOST COST EFFECTIVE battery.  They don't cost that much more than the next level Interstates.  They last a lot longer than the "brands" sold by Batteries Plus.  We have many members, one in particular, that is going on 10 years on a bank.  We all, to get that life, have an accurate hydrometer and VOM and exercise them at least twice a year.  We use Water Miser caps (Amazon) and rarely add more than an ounce to each sell when we test and exercise. I like a wooden gauge...which is outlined, as my old eyes are excellent for a 78 YO Male.  BUT, having a simple dip stick to get the electrolyte level about 60% of the way between the bottom of the well and the plates is easy.  Trojan NOW has a well designed well with a FILL TO HERE mark.  THEY LEARNED.

AGM's are often a second choice.  However, if you GOOF or have an equipment failure, the results can be costly.  They are NOT as robust as the Flooded cells.  YES, they are used on higher end coaches and such and commercial units.  BUT, if you don't exercise them and keep your Inverter charger set for the RIGHT profile...then they can fail prematurely.  We often have topics where "I bought AGM's and they failed quicker than my old flooded..." and the cause is usually lack of exercising and or not knowing HOW to set up or properly charge them.  WHATEVER YOU DO....Trojan recommends NOT Equalizing any BATTERY...Flooded as the last resort.. but IF you equalize AGM's, say good bye and have your credit card ready....not tomorrow, but within a year or two.

Lithium.  Wonderful technology and evolving. Problem is, that unless you have a newer inverter, you may NOT be able to properly charge them. Most of our Lithium experts recommend specific DC to DC chargers and do NOT let the Lithiums charge from the OEM or replacement inverter/chargers.  THAT is a gross and maybe incorrect overview....but for my needs....I don't do that much dry camping....and am satisfied from a performance and price (value) with my Trojans.  IF you need this, then PLEASE DO A LOT OF READING and SEARCHING HERE...we DO have experts...

NOW...the RULE of thumb... and this was and has been a topic at a lot of our Gatherings....regarding Boondocking and especially conversions to residential refrigerators is this.  Convert to ALL LED overheads.  Fluorescents are OK...but some will turn off one fixture if there are 3 in the living area.  Put the home entertainment systems on a power (Surge) strip and TURN THEM OFF THERE....standby sucks up juice. With a normal, good set of 4 flooded cells, you need to only run the Genny 3 or so hours every 24 hours.  The icemaker should be cut off and use the "LOW or ENERGY EFFICIENCY" mode if the res refer has that.  

The rest....  just one comment.  I know folks that do a lot of tailgating.  Purchasing two Honda 2200's would be almost $3500 with the parallel hookups....and the off brands are usually good. Your needs and the surrounding rules or environment should be taken into account.  The cost of running is about the same.  The 7.5 or 8.0 Onan uses, typically, 0.5 GPM.  YES, it will be higher when you are on full charge.  So, figure 2 gallons per 3 hours of charging.  Then compare that to around 3 gallons for the Honda's.  

NOW, if you need FULL TIME POWER and can't exist off of inverted, then that is a different scenario.  Many folks have solar farms on their roofs.  They camp where they can, usually, be in full sun.  But, the cost of them adds up.  

So, it is a dollar evaluation versus needs and looking at alternatives.

I have dry camped for several extended periods at festivals and in NP's, one of which has ODD hours and very restrictive conditions....like no more than 3 hours but you can do it twice a day. I added the Magnum "Auxillary" start harness ($15) and a simple DC 24 hour programmable timer ($25) and started my Genny for 1.5 hours twice a day....and we were STILL free to go out and enjoy the park....so that was a good "investment and solution" for me.

As to the AGS and run down....read the paper.  Generally speaking, folks make a mistake or misunderstand the charts.  When you allow the AGS to start the Genny, you are usually under a load.  The "Under Load" voltage is usually 0.1 to 0.2 VDC LOWER than the RECOVERY or when there is NO LOAD (relatively speaking) on the bank.  So, in reality....you should be able to set the AGS to say 11.8 or so....then the AGS kicks in and you recharge.  Typically 3 to 3.5 hours for a 4 battery bank.  Setting it at 12 VDC actually hurts, from a long range standpoint, the life of a battery.  Better to run the batteries down to 12.0....RECOVERY, not AGS setting which is 50%.  Some say even 11.9 RECOVERY...which would, typically, equate to 11.7 on the AGS.  NEVER lower....as you might NOT have enough juice to crank the genny.

Hope this helps.  I also hope no one takes offense at my summations of the alternatives....this is my understanding and folks that have special needs or such are really creative and knowledgeable....

 

Tom, I think your battery info is about 10 years outdated.  Right now, you can buy a Renogy 200 A-Hr LiFePO4 battery from Renogy (a fairly reputable company, but definitely not the Rolls Royce of LiFePO4 batteries for just slightly more than you can purchase two Trojan T-105 batteries.  I say two, because you need to 6-volt batteries to operate our 12 volt systems.  The T-105's are rated at 225 A-Hrs, and the best cost I can find is $189.00 each - so $378 for two.  that yields $1.68/A-Hr.  The Renogy 200 A-Hr batteries are $369 each.  They are 12 volt so only one is needed.  That yields $1.85/A-Hr.  Note the with the Renogy, you only have 200 A-Hrs vs the T-105 at 225, but all 200 A-Hrs are usable where only 50% or 112.5 A-Hrs are useable with the Trojans.  

I've never heard the term RECOVERY used in determining when to set the AGS to start.  It makes no difference what the "Recovery" voltage might be, unless you are proposing to disconnect all loads before the AGS is allowed to crank the generator.  Not likely.  The loads will be there when the AGS start value is reached, and will remain there while the generator is cranking.  I have never heard that using an AGS affects the depth of discharge (1 - SOC) versus charging with Shore Power.  

There are other considerations when switching to LiFePO4 batteries.  Will the inverter work with them.  Almost all inverters with updates built in the last 20+ years will work.  But you will need a DC-DC Charger if you want to charge from the alternator.  Some don't use one, but many have fried their alternators.  Even if you don't damage your alternator, you don't want 14.4 Volts applied to LiFePO4 batteries for 8 hours while driving down the road (I don't want that applied to my Lead Acid either, so I disabled alternator charging of my house batteries).  

There are many other factors, like freezing temps, that need to be considered when changing to LiFePO4 also.  But the OP really was asking about how to manage his current rig when boon-docking (BD).  I think wholesale replacement of the batteries, generator, and adding solar are outside the scope.  But things like switching to LED lights and choosing the location for a climate where A/C or Heat is not required for 24 hours a day are smart considerations.  

I guess the next step would be for the OP to relate why he wants to BD.  Is it to save money?  Is it because there are no other facilities where he wishes to go?  Getting a feel for how the OP wishes to travel would be more helpful than tossing out lots of suggestions that might not be appropriate to his wishes.

  -Rick N.

28 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

YES....that would be nice....but many of the so called alarms are not that accurate and often deceive and give a false reading...  do the tests...determine the SOC and then you should have confidence....

My alarms from my  Victron 700 series are quite accurate.  It isn't the bluetooth or alarms that makes a false reading, but the source of the alarm.  

  -Rick N.

3 hours ago, Steve P said:

Can anyone recommend a website or article with the basics for boondocking in a Class A?  

We "think" I know the basics... We have no solar.  We don't have an Auto Generator Start, so we have to manage power consumption ourselves.  Fridge and heat and water heater will run on Propane.  Turn off the water heater after showers. 

Inverter will switch from inverting to charging when the generator is running, but does it charge the house batteries exclusively, or does the BIRD govern what is charged?  We know to unplug chargers and such from the outlets.  Don't run the microwave unless the genny is running.  If batteries show 10.5-11 volts in the inverter, should we start the Generator to charge them, or wait (until what voltage?)?  The Generator starts using the chassis batteries, right?

Most lights are flourescent or incandescent, not LED, so we will try to minimize their use.  We don't know how parasitic the Macerator toilets (2) are.  We will switch off the motion-sensing porch light.

Other than the above, some of which might be wrong, we are pretty uninformed.  Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks, 

Steve

 

You have thought things through, but you should never let your batteries drop below 12.0 (some say 12.2) volts.  That is the "average" voltage for Lead Acid batteries to be deemed 50% discharged.  Discharging below that will significantly decrease battery life.  Your use of 10.5 - 11.0 volts is a dead battery, likely to not be recovered. 

Without look up wiring diagrams, I don't know if your Knight has a BIRD.  If it doesn, and it is functioning (all my comments assume everything is functioning as it should) then your Chassis batteries will be charged when on Shore (Gen) power.  If you are not sure if you have a BIRD, ask and someone will check for you.

Monaco was not consistent (and there are many that will argue both ways) with which battery bank the generator starts.  I recommend the Chassis battery, so when you do get the house batteries low, the generator will still start.   

I have AGS (Automatic Generator Start), but rarely does it get used.  Now, in my system, which is not Magnum (it's all Victron equipment) AGS mean starting the generator when battery conditions signal it to do so.  I have a separate ATS (Auto Temperature Start) which I understand some Magnum Inverters have incorporated in the overall AGS terminology.  I have never even tested my ATS, as I have never been somewhere I felt that was critical.  I don't often stay where heat would be a problem for a few hours if I lost Shore Power (it is mostly used for when Shore Power fails, and that kills the A/Cs, the generator will start and continue powering the A/Cs).  I look at AGS as a lazy man's safety.  I believe in actively participating in the management of my energy usage, and as such, will check the battery conditions before the need to fire up the gen.  I know it works because I left my coach for some body work and they had it inside their shop for over a week.  Normally this isn't a problem because I have solar, but that doesn't work inside.  I received notifications that the generator was periodically starting.  The shop didn't notice until they had it in their paint booth and came in and the booth was full of exhaust.  I look at AGS like overdraft protection on a checking account.  I know what I have in my bank, and what I spend, so I have no need for overdraft protection.  But not everyone has the same attention to details, and sometimes "stuff happens".  

Since you already own the coach, go live in it.  Disconnect from Shore Power and see how long the batteries last under "normal" usage.  If you can't make it overnight, you need to address either your "normal" or you need additional (or maybe replacement) batteries.  This is something you can do, even in when your at home.  Watch the battery usage.  I dry camp with several others with Monaco's for weeks.  Many have solar, but some don't, and they do just fine.  The fire up the generator in the morning when they get up, cook breakfast, and let it run a couple hours.  Then again at dinner for an hour or two.  If it's cold and the will be using the furnace overnight, they will run the gen about an hour before retiring to top off the batteries.  This is for Lead Acid batteries.  Oh, and don't try to recharge Lead Acid batteries to 100% on the generator.  The last 15% can take HOURS - not worth the fuel.  Generally I suggest to shut down the gen when the charger goes into Float Mode, unless you are using it for something besides charging batteries.  You'll get a lot more bang for your buck by running the gen 3 times a day versus trying to recharge to 100%  Of the group still laugh at me for running my generator, twice a day, for 8+ hours trying to get the last 3-5% back in the batteries.  Another thing, if you use CPAP, turn off the humidifier.  My CPAP draws less than an amp without the humidifier.  It is rated at 4.5 Amps with the humidifier.  That 45 Amps @ 12.5 VDC!   Of course, the humidifier doesn't run 100% of the time, but it will save if you are having issues making it overnight without running the generator.  If you are not using your inverter (no need to have 110 VAC) turning off the Inverter will save 4+ Amps, the plus being whatever else it is powering.  Before I upgraded to LiFePO4 batteries, I could save over 20 Amps overnight by killing the inverter.  That is because of all the "stuff" I have running, and that was easier than running around unplugging things (like TVs, Dish Receivers, WiFi Routers, Cell Boosters, and lots of other things) and then re-plugging them in in the morning.  I can't answer your question about the macerator toilets, but I expect it is high when used, but for short durations.  I suspect the "parasitic" draw would be insignificant.  

I've seen many articles from different RV groups (FMCA. Escapees, etc) and others, but don't have a direct cite for them.  

Bottom Line:  Try testing how things go when you have Shore Power (so you don't have to fire up the gen if the batteries get weak) before you attempt extended dry-camping.  

  -Rick N.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Ah, yes.  But have you calibrated or compared or tested it?  The real test is to run the exercise test….3 cycles.  Then find the real SOC after you remove the surface charge.  Then let the batteries sit, disconnect off, jumpers removed….and sit for 30 minutes.  Then measure the SOC and VDC and compare to the Trojan chart.  The chart tells you the real SOC. Interpolate to the nearest whole number.  Then compare to what the instrument says.  That is the only real way….otherwise… the reading may be false.  OR correct!.  But yet, folks are purchasing BMK’s and Shunt systems and such and putting total trust into a device that may have not been tested or validated.

I really want to know if they work and how accurate they are….looking for real data.  They may be 100% or off by 10 or more %….but we don’t know.

All my reading and talking to Magnum and Trojan and testing shows that the recovery voltage or SG after being discharged, is the REAL discharged SOC.  THEREFORE, the load voltage, is usually 0.1 -0.2  VDC lower than the recovery.  But, each bank or brand may be different.  The only way is to measure the load voltage at say, 11.8 VDC and see if the recovery voltage or SOC is close to 12.0 or 50% SOC.

I hope you accept the challenge.  I would like to know how accurate they are.  Magnum says that their remote meters are only +/- 10%…so how do you trust them?

 

Tom, I think you are conflating SOC (State of Charge, measured in percent of the battery capacity) and Battery Voltage.  There is no "surface SOC".  You seem to be implying that the charts that Trojan or other Lead Acid (Flooded Lead Acid or AGM) publish to help the user estimate the SOC by voltage as the Standard by which SOC is measured.  A true Battery Monitor for SOC (not to be confused by the Battery Voltage Monitor Bob H. linked to in his post above, measures electron flow into and out of the battery.  Ok, it really measures the electron flow through the shut, which presumably is connected to the battery.  It don't know or care about voltage, type of battery chemistry (Lead Acid, Lithium, etc.).  For it to present the net count of electrons, it does need to know the battery capacity.  This is where any calibration takes place.  It may know the number of electrons, but if it doesn't know the total number, it can't tell the State of Charge (SOC) or % of charge.  Think of a water flow meter, it knows how much water was used, but it can't tell you how much you have left or what percentage you have left, unless you tell it the size of the supply tank.  

No, what you have mentioned above does come into play in determining the Capacity of the battery.  For most batteries, this is done by discharging the battery at a know level (amps) for a know period of time (minutes or hours) and then using calibrated equipment to recharge the battery fully.  That is where Surface Charge takes effect.  Most readers don't bother unless there is reason for questioning.  So, most people enter the Amp-Hour rating the manufacturer gives.  But this deteriorates over time, and if accuracy is required, needs to be reassessed periodically.  Again, most readers don't do this.  It is true that the shunt might not be perfectly accurate, but the accuracy is magnitudes greater than other elements in the system.  And who need to measure their SOC to within 0.01% accuracy?  Give me 2% - 5% and I'll call that good.  We aren't designing space or weapon systems here.  I dare say that the shunt is 10 times more accurate than a field battery capacity test.  Additionally, the battery capacity will change depending on the rate of discharge.  For LiFePO4 batteries, it is recommended NOT to use voltage to determine the SOC, since the LiFePO4 batteries hold their voltage fairly constant down to about 15% SOC.  This is the main reason these new Battery Monitors are becoming so prevalent (along with cost decreases).   

1 minute ago, Joel J said:

Wet batteries. And they are older, so ..... ?? 

Thank you 

Put a good charge on them,  and I would disconnect the negative on both banks; house & chassis. 

18 hours ago, Joel J said:

Thanks a lot!

 I really appreciate all of your input. We are going to be putting the coach into a Fully enclosed barn with a concrete floor and no power. We will have the coach fully winterized before storing it and I will disconnect the House and chasis batteries. 

If  This does not work, I will be back online with more questions ! Thanks again. 

Joel

 

 

Do you have Lithium Batteries?  If so, then need to be heated or removed to a heated area if the temp drops below 0°F (mine are -4°F for storage).

  -Rick N.

Can you try that with complete sentences, and punctuation?  Did you replace the relay with a 6-volt or 12-volt?  The light is ????  Is it working?  I don't understand - think you are saying you have the new alternator installed?  What does "on the was" mean??

  -Rick N.   

If you have the money, and the indoor facility is convenient and has power, that would be the best.  For me, having power is much more important than having indoor storage - after all, if you weren't storing it, and were instead using it, it would be outdoors (presumably).  Even if the indoor facility has heat, unless I could get there within an hour of so of it losing electricity (including time to notify me), I would winterize it - especially if you have an Aquahot.  That is $10K or more to replace if it freezes (including labor).  I store mine outside, with electricity.  I also have solar, which it uses most of the time - it hasn't been plugged in since I returned from the FMCA Rallies last August.  I will plug it in though.  Last year I didn't, and was out of town and we had 24" of snow and cold for over 5 days - that about as long as I can last on batteries (also heating my LiFePO4 batteries).  I had to make a special trip home overnight to plug it in. 

Which brings up another point - solar.  If you have solar, and are paying for electricity, that is more justification for storing it outside vs inside. 

If you have electricity, you have an excellent smart charger built into your inverter that will maintain your batteries.  If you don't have a BIRD system, you will want (if you have not already installed) a way to also maintain your chassis batteries. 

I can't stress winterizing unless you have direct control (and are immediately available if it fails) of the heated indoor storage.  In my priorities, the closeness of having my coach in my yard is much higher than having it stored inside, but we are all different.

Lastly, you didn't specifically ask, but I do not recommend the RV Fabric Covers.  No matter how well fitting they are, they will chaf the paint.  The access is significantly limited when they are on, and lastly, most important to me is the weight.  I can't, and I dare say most of the members on here can't carry it up the ladder to the roof.  They weigh upwards of 100 pounds.  I know some that use a forklift to get it up, but you still have to unroll it, center it, climb back down (with the ladder now covered) and tie things up.  I bought one for my previous Dynasty (only 32-ft) and it weighed over 60 pounds.  I strapped it to a backpack frame, and got it up there - once.  I didn't even open the box.  I slid it back down on an extension ladder, and sold it.  Don't miss it a bit.  

  -Rick N.

Ok, when you turn on the headlights, the marker and brake lights come on.  Can you tell if the "tail light" (the lights that should be on) are on too?  What happens when you turn on your turn signal - do any lights flash? 

You post thet if you turn off the headlights all the marker and tail light work as they should.  What exactly do you mean by "turn off the headlights"?  If you turn them off, there should be no marker or tail lights to work.  Do you mean they are off as they should be.  Or, do you mean by "turn off the headlights" that you just put the parking lights on?  That would allow the marker lights to be on too.  In this case, do the brake lights come on when the brake is depressed, as normal? 

If things do work correctly with the Parking lights on, then your problem resides in the headlights and their wiring.  I would first disconnect the headlights, as close to the headlights as possible.  Then turn on the headlight switch and evaluate.  Do things work as normal, or are the brake lights on all the time?  If things are normal, the headlights are the problem.  If they don't work, then the switch and wiring to the headlights are the problem.

  -Rick N.

1 hour ago, SteveQAR said:

yes original back in 

no they put old one back in

the old one was working but was 10 year old and look very bad was just trying to stay on top of thing. 

The shop could not fix the light and sent me on my way I think the relay is bad 

Please post a picture of the back of the alternator.  

Is the ALT-FAIL light on?  You can simply pull the ALT-FAIL relay and the light will go out.  Obviously, it won't be monitoring the alternator condition when removed.

  -Rick N.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

 

Question for you as an "interested third party".  Do the Faria gauges have replaceable transducers or are the transducers part of the main board or "brain" that sends out multiplexed, I think, signals to each of the various gauges.  The ACTI are that way and are the DEVIL to fix....or more correctly, I don't think one could sell their soul to the guy in the red suit and negotiate a deal...  LOL

Thanks...

Hopefully this will work out and we all learn...

 

Tom, I don't know about replacing the transducers.  I haven't read about anyone needing to do that.  Yes, these are multiplexed on a buss.  Each gauge appears to a an Application Specific microprocessor within the "gauge" itself.  That apparently decode the stream on the buss, and then does what it needs to to drive the steeper motor which in turn moves the needle.  If you watch the YouTube video I posted above, the tech explains some of that.  I think if something goes bad on the main board, you are screwed, unless someone like Paul or maybe  M&M could repair it.  

  - Rick N 

4 hours ago, BennieH said:

Our 2003 Camelot has pneumatic gauges.

 I would purge the lines and have the air dryer serviced.

He doesn't have a 2003 Camelot with pneumatic gauges, he has a 2005 Exec with electronic gauges. 

  Rick N 

15 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Harry's pic only shows 3 wires.

Yes, but there are also the large Positive & Negative wires that would be connected too. 

1 hour ago, myrontruex said:

Steve, it sounds like you have a self exciting alternator. The small white is likely an ignition sense.

You should get 14+ right at the alternator.

You should be able to "see" your battery voltage right at the large red wire. That is, it is likely connected at the starter area (stacked), with the heavy wire to the starter. Of course it could go directly to the battery. 

Hard to know if yours was a factory self excited or modified later. I prefer self excited for simplicity but the remote sensor probably gives you a better/more accurate charging. Either system is just fine. 

 

You are likely correct.  Since Monaco did away with the Solid State Isolator (diodes), the remote sense isn't that important Sine the cables from the Alternator to the batteries is relatively short.  But the self excitation is a problem.  Sheer do you connect the wire?  Normally it would be connected too +12 Volts, but if you do that on some Monacos, you can't kill the engine, since the ignition key is out of the circuit.  You could rewire the coach to make it work, but it's best to get the proper alternator. 

  Rick N 

5 hours ago, SteveQAR said:

2 big red and black and one small white

With only one small wire, it doesn't sound like the alternator does not have taps for the field (stator) windings. This is required for the ALT-FAIL Circuit.  If you connected the wire that should have gone to the Field Tap to 12 Volts,  you would likely blow the fuse, some the 6 volt ALT-FAIL Relay, or both.   You need to get the correct alternator, and likely a new tech who understands charging systems. 

I have a 2005 Exec also, with this problem.  I hope to be working on it this weekend.  Here is a post worth reading from Dec 31, 2022.  Skip through to the YouTube video, and read on from there.  I have ordered the Capacitors that Paul Whittle ordered that fixed his problem.  I trust the link that Paul gives, more than the link in the video, because I know Paul.  

These are Faria Gauges.  As Steven A (Chargerman) posted, these are indeed electronic gauges.  They are driven from an interface module (behind the dash) which decodes the ECU parameters for most of the gauges, but has pressure transducers for the Air Pressure gauges.  .  They do employ stepper motors, but that doesn't seem to fail as often as the capacitors.  Plus the capacitors are cheaper and easier (for those who have worked with surface mount PCB technology) to replace.  

My capacitors are scheduled to arrive today (Friday) or tomorrow.  I will try and document what I find, but Phil (and the YouTube video) already have done a great job.

  -Rick N.

Since you say this problem started after the original alternator was replaced, the replacement likely caused the problem.  The alternator required for you coach is "special".  It is a DUVAC alternator (although with the Isolator Relay Delay it is not really needed).  But is also has a tap (actually 3, one for each stator) that is used to determine the functioning of the alternator.  I'm attaching a diagram from a similar coach.  If the incorrect alternator is used, most often it only affects the ALT-FAIL circuit, or doesn't fully charge the batteries.  Since it is blowing fuses, indeed both fuses, it is either the wrong alternator, or it is (most likely) wired incorrectly.  If it didn't occur right after the alternator was replaced, and it was only the ALT-FAIL fuse, then you could consider a bad relay or bad wiring (shorted) going to the relay.  But it is also blowing the IGN (Ignition) fuse also.  This provides the excite voltage, where required, and is also the way to stop the engine.  If this is not wired correctly, the alternator will "back feed" from itself to the ignition buss, and the ignition key will no longer kill the engine.  I would start by looking for the wiring error, ensure the correct alternator is installed, and also look for any damaged wiring that might have occurred during the alternator replacement.  Many times the mechanic connects the wires to the wrong terminals.  The physical location and the electrical location of the terminals may vary between manufacturers, and even between different models within the same manufacturer's line.

  -Rick N.

2006 Diplomat wiring diagrams Alternator.pdf

There are a few different things to check.  First, do you have about the same water pressure as before this problem occurred?  Second, I've read many posts about not having the "City" and "Fill" Valves set to the correct position.  I don't have those valves, so I can't elaborate, other than to say that if they are set incorrectly, you just recycle the water in the fresh water tank.  

The most common problem I've experienced over the last 45 years, especially on the houseboats, which suck water directly from the lake, is a small piece of dirt gets in the internal (to the pump) check valve, which keeps it from properly closing.  In past years, you could get rebuild kits with new parts, and servicing the pump would correct the problem.  This didn't happen near as often in the RVs, likely since the water I put in the tanks was clean.  There are other check valves in the plumbing system too.  I don't think your Ambassador has a water manifold where you can turn off individual water lines, but you can disconnect the output of the water pump and plug (cap) it.  Then restore (assuming you followed Tom's suggestion that you pull the fuse to shut it off) power, and see if the pump builds pressure and shuts off.  I forgot to mention that there is also an internal (to the pump) pressure switch would could also be bad.  If the pump builds pressure and shuts off, you know you problem is after the pump.  If it doesn't, the next thing I would try is removing the input to the pump, and temporarily connecting a piece of tubing long enough to go from the pump out to a bucket filled with water.  Again, restore power and see if the pump shuts off.  If so, you know you have a problem before the pump, if not, the pump internal check valve or pressure switch is likely bad.  I don't think you can be repair kits, by you might check with the manufacturer of you specific pump. 

Post results and we might be able to further advise, as it is impossible to cover all possibilities.

  -Rick N. 

A quick Google search shows the main difference is the Electric Relay was changed on the -04S.  There is an upgrade for the 03S.  

  - Rick N 

I'd trust the Victron first. But I'd review all the settings on the Xantrex, including the battery capacity. 

  - Rick N 

Where did you ultimately find the ones like came on your coach?  Do you have a link or a vendor & part number? 

  - Rick N 

A quick Google search shows that device has a limited lifetime manufacturer warranty.  If you to get it replaced under that warranty, I don't think you want to be replacing components within.  

I'm not sure what you mean by "I can make the rest of the trip without the Generator during a bypass".  

Typically, the Surge Protector is between the transfer switch and the Shore Power connection.  It is completely out of the picture when on generator.  The rationale is that we can more easily control surges from our generators than we can from random power sources outside the coach.

  -Rick N.

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

NOW....what he reported, after (maybe 2 years ago when we cleared the fault) is that he would usually get 12 or so hours with the LBCO set (his memory) to 11.9 VDC.  OK....he could make it through the night....but that is only about HALF of LESS of what a "Functional....capable of being recharged to 100 SOC) batteries, AGM or Flooded should deliver.  The Remote setup was changed to 12 VDC (the USUAL 50% recommendation...that is...as was explained....not really correct).  SO, he is now shutting down EARLIER....as in maybe 8 hours.

 

 

I'm not sure how you can make this statement without knowing all the loads in the particular coach.  You might be correct IF the only load was the Residential Refrigerator and absolutely nothing else.  Then we can draw some correlation between time on 4 6-volt batteries versus 8 6-volt batteries.  But you can't draw that correlation between your coach with 4 6-volt batteries powering what is "normal" for you, versus someone else's coach with 8 6-volt batteries  which a potentially significantly different load.  The only way such a determination can be made is by monitoring the the current flow into & out of the batteries on each coach.  If that current is close to the same, over the same time period, your statement holds true.  But I don't have the same current flow from day to day on my coach.  We need objective data here.

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

  

The issue is also this.  Magnum say that the difference in the AGM1 and AGM2 setting is that in AGM1, you can equalize...  OPPS....

WARNING – DO NOT EQUALIZE CHARGE GELL OR AGM BATTERIES! Equalizing is an “over voltage-over charge” performed on flooded lead-acid batteries after they have been fully charged to help eliminate acid stratification. It helps to eliminate the acid stratification and sulfation that happens in all flooded lead acid batteries. Acid Stratification is the #1 killer of flooded lead acid batteries.

 

My Magnum Reference material (Magnum ME-ARC Advanced Remote Control and Magnum ME-RC Standard Remote Control) both allow for equalization on Flooded, AGM-1, AGM-2, GEL, in addition to LFP, CC/CV and Custom for the Advanced Remote Control.  All of those MAY be equalized.  NONE are automatic.  You MUST "To turn on Equalize charging, ensure the LCD display reads “Float Charging” or “Full Charge”, then press and hold down the ON/OFF CHARGER button (about five seconds) until the LCD screen displays “Equalizing”.  So, the statement that you can equalize on only AGM-1 is false.

Additionally, AGM batteries are Lead Acid batteries, just not flooded.  According to Lifeline Batteries website : Can I equalize AGM batteries? The short answer is Yes!  Those interested may follow the link for more on the subject.

I recognize that I have used specific references (which I have quoted) and not all Inverters, Remote Controls and Batteries may be the same.  This is why it is important to not generalize if there are indeed differences (I don't know that there are, I did not do an exhaustive research).

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

I went to the Balloon Festival and had nary a problem.  OK...that was WITHOUT a Res Refer. BUT, I have boondocked since then and know that I can go at least 12 and probably 16 hours without the LBCO (mine is set to 11.8 MEMORY) and, in reality, the RECOVERY voltage of 12.0 translates into setting the Magnum LBCO to 11.7....

Therefore, Woody is trying to milk the life out of them and survive at the Balloon Festival...which has QUIET TIME hours.  He can't just get up in the middle of the might and run the Genny.

SO....with all that said.....this is, perhaps a better explanation.  Short of buying one of the QUIET small 1000 Watt Honda ($1000....OUCH) generators and running it at night, he has to make do with what he has.

 

I was there with you at the Balloon Festival - that is where we met.  Unless there are indeed battery or charger problem, which there is no objective evidence presented to that fact, only that it doesn't perform as well has the OP had hoped, I will reiterate some things to consider.  First is to do a power survey of the actual power consumption of the coach, specifically overnight.  If the tools to do that are not available, then make sure ALL unnecessary loads are shut down or disconnected.  I recognize that there are quiet hours, as there should be.  But if due diligence to ensure the batteries are "topped off" before quiet hours, I believe (again absent defective batteries or charger) that his coach with minimal loads will make it until the end of quiet hours (I don't remember the exact times, but rarely are they more than 12 hours) when he can recharge the batteries.  Make sure the Ice Maker is turned OFF.  Make sure Auto Defrost is turned OFF.  If that is not sufficient,  turn off the refrigerator, do not open the doors, overnight.  It should keep things cool/frozen for 10 - 12 hours.  Most importantly, don't use high power consumption items anytime when boondocking.  This includes, but is not limited to, the microwave, any form of electric heating (coffee maker, hair dryer, air fryer, instapot, etc.) without the generator running.  Plan around the non-quiet hours so you can run the generator.  This should allow for a fun stay at the Balloon Festival.  Note that more experience is gained on how much power is consumed overnight, how long it takes to recharge the batteries, etc., some of the above mentioned prohibited devices can slowly be used, when not on the generator.  

I hope this help clarify, and not muddy, the situation.

  -Rick N.

I'm coming in late on this discussion.  As others have posted, the battery voltages are within normal range (if anything a bit high, but likely didn't have a full resting time).  So, there are a couple steps that should be taken to analyze the problem.  First, as Jim posted, the OP need to confirm that the inverter/charger is charging the batteries.  The OP stated that he charged them for about 2 hours, but didn't say how they were charged.  The assumption is that he used the inverter/charger, but need to confirm this.  Also, 2 hours is not going to charge a 50% SOC AGM battery to 100%.  That will likely take 6+ hours.  

Before blaming the inverter or the batteries, a survey of actual load should be made.  The residential refrigerator is not going to discharge 8 AGM that are in fairly decent shape in less than 12 hours.  But we all know that there are other loads on the batteries, beside the phantom loads.  We use lights, water pumps, charge cell phones and tablets/laptops, and, most importantly, watch TV.  As an example my entertainment system, sitting idle (all units turned off with the remote, but still plugged in) draws over 8 Amps @ 12 Volts.  That may seem like a lot, but in the scheme of things, that is only 800 mA (0.8 Amps) at 120 VAC, where they were designed to operate.  And I likely have more "stuff" (Dish Receiver, Smart TV, Smart internet connected A/V Receiver, ROKU, Amazon Fire, to name most).  Then there may be internet access devices (MiFi, Starlink, etc) and routers for distribution of "steaming" content.  There may be vent fans running since he will be dry camping (unless he is running the generator for A/C).  Another thing to consider is a CPAP machine.  Mine will run off either 12 VDC or 120 VAC, but it doesn't matter - in either case make sure to turn off or otherwies disable the humidifier.  On my CPAP, the humidifier alone is spec'd at 4 Amps @ 120 VAC - that is 40 Amps @ 12 VDC!  Oxygen concentrators also consume considerable power that might be overlooked, if applicable.

Bottom Line:  Some sort of shunt or at a minimum a clamp on ammeter need to be deployed to see just how much the batteries are supplying, not just through the inverter.  

Final suggestion is to run the generator at breakfast and dinner (yes, I know some meals are provided) for an hour or so, and then before bedtime if needed.  That should get the OP through the night.

  -Rick N.

You will usually find it within 24" of the water pump itself.  Follow the Pump wire.

  -Rick N.

3 hours ago, deputylynch said:

I already checked, they can both be ran simultaneously without a problem but the BlueFire app will not pull over the information from the GPS unit. 

Have you contacted BlueFire?   They have been supportive to me, but thru a forum at that time, no over the phone. 

I think I misread your original post, and I apologize.  

Originally,  BlueFire was not written to supplier Fire OS.  I thought you were using an example of an external GPS working on Fire to suggest that BlueFire could work also.  After checking the BlueFire website, I found that indeed BlueFire does have an App that will work on Fire OS 6 and higher, but you have to side-load it or be able to download from the Google Play Store.  This is a change from the "BlueFire for Motorhomes" to the "BlueFire Apps".  I'm guessing you already knew this. 

So, I think your question has to do with adding an external GPS "puck" to your Fire tablet in addition running BlueFire.  I don't know the answer.  But,  in the past, BlueFire support was good, and they might be able to tell you.  I suspect that it would be difficult to connect both simultaneously via Bluetooth,  but in the old days, I ran a GPS "puck" via USB.  I don't know if you have that capability.  

 - Rick N 

1 hour ago, deputylynch said:

Do you use BlueFire?

I'm pretty sure it allows tracking to save trips, also to coordinate speed and distance traveled. It may do a few other things also but I don't know since I can't use the feature? 

Yes, I do use BlueFire.  I don't think it allows for tracking.  It gets its speed and distance from the engine ECU.  If the data isn't on the ECU or the transmission TCU, it is not displayed by BlueFire.   This is not to say that you couldn't have an independent application also running on the tablet/laptop with GPS data (requires a GPS).  That secondary application may be able to import data from the BlueFire for use within that application, but that would all be independent of the BlueFire Application.  

  -rick