waterskier_1

1 hour ago, bpperk said:

 Coach net is only a sales force. Their repair warranty claims are handled by a company that manages these contracts for several sellers of these products. That said, I have coach net and recently had a claim on my Foretravel. I had to remind them that I had bought the  premium product. Then they were very nice to deal with. I was at the HWH factory for service on the active air. Those folks were great to deal with. They fixed everything spending two long days. Very reasonable charges and mostly were  concerned for our comfort as we camped inside their facility. That combined with the coverage of my Coach net policy made be happy to pay the charges and submit myself to Coach net. HWH does not accept payment from any warranty co.

How did CoachNet pay four you HWH bill?  Do they offer an extended warranty with their premium product? 

  - Rick N 

I have had AAA for over 30 years.  I had the RV +++ or whatever the call the top tier coverage.  The first time was when I was run off the road.  The State Patrol called the towing company and they sent two Class 8 tow trucks.  Since the operation was just to get me out of a ditch, and I was on so sever a slope that I had to crawl out the drivers window because the door was hitting the ground.  Everyone was amazed it did not roll.  On truck was connected just to keep me from rolling down the ditch, while the other pulled me out.  The damage was minimal (as far as driving) and I was NOT towed, but drove to the Towing companies lot where I purchased and rigged a turn signal to replace the damaged one.  This company did not accept AAA, nor was AAA called (there was no cell phone service, and the State Patrol Officer had to drive 4 miles just to get radio contact.  I presented the bill to AAA and denied it since there was no Towing.  It was considered "Recovery" which they don't cover, unless a tow in also required.

The second time was to inflate a tire that had gone flat and the bead had come off the rim.  AAA said they would have to tow it to a tire store.  They called back and said the only Class 8 Tow truck was 250 miles away, and wouldn't be available for 3 days.  I told them that all it needed was a mobile tire repair guy but they told me they don't have anyone that can do that under contract.  Now this was in Denver, CO, not some tiny town 100's miles from civilization.  I called a tow company, and the came, removed the inner dual, reseated the tire, inflated, and reinstalled for about $100. I presented the bill to AAA who declined it saying I didn't get prior approval.  After escalating to higher management, they finally paid and I quit the expensive RV +++ towing.  I still have the basic AAA for my other vehicles, and am reasonably happy with their service on cars.  I switched to FMCA, but have yet to use it.  I got a notice for renewal (I've had it for 5 -6 years) and tried to find out my renewal date.  FMCA couldn't help.  They have nothing to do with the Roadside Assist other than to advertise and get a discount (?) for members.  It's more like their tire purchase program.  I'm not happy with the lack of website (it goes by another name - I don't remember - who farms out insurance to lots of groups).  I'll be seriously considering CoachNET when this policy expires (next year - they wanted me to renew 6-months early).

Others experience may vary.  I think AAA in general is okay, but they don't have contracts with many Class 8 Towing facilities.  Only 3 within 5-miles of Denver.  

  -Rick N.

Take note that you Diplomat's 8K generator does not output 220 VAC.  You have to go to the 10KW or 12.5KW to get real 220 VAC (split-phase).  So, if you did this mod, you would not be able to operate the dryer on your generator.  Also, as Dennis points out, if you are contemplating at 50 Amp, 220 VAC dryer (typical residential dryer) it would require the 12.5KW generator.

  -Rick N.

13 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Thanks 

The 2004 Windsor was the “last” i think of the “real Windsors” and the Semi Monoque body construction.  The 05…..maybe, but one would have to dig through the ONLINE Monaco’s website’s advertising brochures and look at the “construction” details.  They sort of did a bait and switch and then the Camelot and the Scepter Scepter and Windsor were “born”….don’t hold me to the year and how the “triplets” were born.

My “rule of thumb”.  04 did have a Dual In Dual Out as I helped our founder with his electric issues.  OF THAT I KNOW….

Then the triplets had the newer version.  A Single In Single OUT or 2 circuits.  That’ why yours would be easy to modify. A word about my “split lug” choice as folks may be snickering.  I don’t like wire nuts in a MH, and YES, Monaco used them.  I KNOW that the NEC exempted microwaves and res refers when all the Monaco’s that had GFCI’s upstream of the refrigerators and icemakers were wired that way.  SO…. Monaco was not a stickler for code….and maybe never knew the consequences.  Once Monaco started offering res refers as options, not CARTE BLANCHE, as i have only looked at at least 80% of those prints, they STOPPED and used conventional circuits or NON GFCI Protected.

That “long and boring” dissertation was to clarify that most residential and I know, all industrial & commercial contractors…..as I supervised maintenance and also used outside contractors…..told me when I was installing home generator back feeds for friends….and they had an “abandoned dryer line” and it was  #10 aka 30 Amps…..do NOT USE WIRE NUTS.  That, personally, would “GO DOUBLE” here.

I’ve had to make a few….usually works in a standard box.  In your case, I would set a box ahead of the Inverter.  I would have a #10 in (its there), a #10 out to the inverter and a #12 out to a subpanel of whatever you need for a 20 A breaker.  That’s clean.  My MEMORY…two wraps of a kraft or “paper bag” over the split lug, a special 3 M foam tape (called out in NEC and easily checked online) then maybe 2 wraps….number eludes me.  Then you encapsulate with standard electrical tape…but you make sure you keep tension on the tape (most don’t’ and put maybe 3 there.  That meets NEC…of that I know.

Tom, you are correct regarding the differences in model years for the Windsor.  I found the following based on the Wiring Diagrams I have which matches your post.

Windsors in 2000 had Single Input/Single Output (SI/SO) Inverters.  2000+ Dynasties (Not including REV products which I have no information or experience)  had Dual Input/Dual Output (DI/DO) inverters.  Starting in 2001 the Windsors had DI/DO inverters upt ot somewhere around 2005.  Then in 2006, the Windsors went back to SI/SO, the same as Camelots.  The Inverter Subpanel technically was not (is not) contingent on Dual Output Inverters.  I believe it was done as Monaco incorporated upgrades.  You certainly could (and I have redesigned coaches that do) have an Inverter Subpanel with only a Single Output Inverter.  The subpanel GFCI(s) - for only those circuits that required CFCI - are indeed GFCI BREAKERS, not Outlets.  

Regarding your recommendation of Split-Lugs.  NEC allows use for a maximum of TWO wires.  AWG 10 is normally connected with the appropriate sized (red winged) Wire Nut which will accommodate up to three AWG 10 conductors.   I personally recommend and all my designs suggest a smaller (typically 4 Circuit Breaker) sized breaker box.  I have the box at the output of the inverter and remove the "Outlet String" romex from the associated Inverter Output.  I insert a new piece of AWG 10 from that Inverter Output into the input of the newly added breaker box.  I put two 20 Amp breakers in the box (I use a 4-breaker box so I have more room for wiring-personal preference, not requirement) connected to the Romex from the inverter.  I then wire the previously connected "Outlet String" to one of the 20 Amp breakers.  If you carefully choose where you put this new breaker box (some might call a mini Inverter Subpanel) you won't have to splice - the "Outlet String" would reach.  Then I wire the new circuit (in this case, the Bedroom Outlets) to the other 20 Amp breaker.  I leave the Microwave circuit alone.  The inverter doesn't care how many breakers or outlets you add - or how you name them.  It only cares that you not exceed the 30 Amp output circuit breaker rating.  Therefore, using the microwave output to supply the new circuit isn't necessary.  Again, I stress that the OWNER will be responsible for proper Energy Management of the Inverter (same is he is now).  If you add too much at the same time, something is going to trip a breaker.  The only re-routing of wiring in this case is from the new circuit to the 20 Amp breaker in the new subpanel.  You don't have to rewire the microwave circuit.  You may not even have to get into the Main Power Panel (other than to disable the bedroom circuit as it will be abandoned).  All that is necessary is to find the existing bedroom outlet circuit in question, and possibly put a Junction Box to tie that circuit to a new run of romex.  That last sentence is the majority of the effort, and different for every coach model and year.

From my experience, and from the experiences of others I have talked to who have actually re-wired their coach so based on empirical data, not theoretical suppositions, most all the wiring in the coach itself (not to include chassis wiring) is in the roof.  Typically this is within 6 inches of the side (so be careful if you are drilling in this area).  It then runs from the roof (ceiling) either down the wall to where it needs to go, or across the ceiling to where it needs to go.  EXCEPTION: If the outlet or switch or whatever is contained within a slide room, it is wired from the basement, under the slide and up through the floor of the slide, then across the floor (under the cabinets) to where it's needed and then up the wall.  I have never seen or heard of a slide room where the electrical wiring is run from the top or the sides into the slide room. 

So, in the OPs case, are the outlets you wish to connect in a slide or are they in a fixed wall/cabinet in the bedroom.  That will be the clue as to how the wires were originally run.  If through the ceiling, many have opted to intercept them at the main power panel.  They have added new Romex or conduit, their preference, to the Power panel, and connected the wires removed from the breaker to the new romex inside the main power panel.  Then they typically run the conduit down, through the floor and ultimately over to the new Inverter subpanel.  Most of my efforts have been in the design phase, and I have worked with owners who know electrical and mechanical systems, and they perform the actual running and connecting of the wires, based on their coach.  

  -Rick N.

On 11/4/2023 at 7:22 AM, Steven P said:

Here's a list of my wiring in my 06 Dip.  Yours may not be the same, but it may help.  I swapped the fridge line to the supply line on the GFCi so if it tripped,  we wouldn't lose our beer....er food. 

Is is a page from the 2006 Diplomat Wiring Diagrams that show how Monaco intended it to be wired - no guarantee it was actually wired this way, but certainly a good starting point. 

2006 Diplomat AC Wiring.pdf

10 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Re-wiring the panel is easy . . . . if you've got a wire stretcher.

Just thinking out loud, but my concern would be balance.  My understanding is the side that supplies the bedroom also supplies one (or both) roof AC's.  If the microwave was added to that side it might overload it.  Or not, just a hunch.  If you were to flip one AC wiring with the microwave that would keep the balance.  Hopefully having the 2 (or 3) roof AC's on different phases isn't an issue. 

I blew up my electric blanket by running an extension cord to the bathroom then running that off the inverter.  Literally smoked the controller!  Still trying to figure that out.

- bob

 

The likely reason you damaged you electric blanket is the MSW inverter output didn't play well with the elections in the thermostat control. 

 - Rick N 

3 hours ago, Bill R said:

I searched for this topic and did not find anything.

Current Problem:  I do not like using inverted power for the microwave.  In fact it is our practice not to.  We only use the microwave when on gen or shore power.  Also, we cannot use the outlets by the bed, or the entire Driver's side of the coach when we are on inverted power.   This is a nuisance for many reasons.

Proposed Solution:  Swap the power supply for the two circuits.  So, this would mean to power all of the current non-inverted outlets from the inverter's 120V 15A power leg that is currently powering the microwave.    And, power the microwave from the 120V 20A breaker that is currently supplying power to all of the non-inverted outlets.   I am very adept to doing this as I have upgraded and retrofitted many houses and know 120V circuitry very well. 

Question:  Any reason why not to do this AND any tips/advice to doing this?

Theorically there is nothing wrong with this, other than it might make the coach less sellable.  Practically, it seems it would be a daunting process to rewire. From your description, I'm guessing your coach doesn't have an Inverter Sub-panel.  This means you solo have to fish the wires from the inverter,  oops, first you need to install a Junction Box to add more wire to the microwave wires, then fish them back to the main power panel.  Then another Junction Box to extend the bedroom outlets so they can be fished up to the inverter.  

  - Rick N 

22 hours ago, vito.a said:

Page 86 of the 2015 Dynasty Owners manual shows a picture of the wet bay thermostat.  It says it's located next to the water pump in the service bay.  I would look above the water pump on the wall.  

Of course for it to work the Aqua Hot Diesel switch will need to be on and the corresponding Zone on the thermostat will need to be set to Furnace.  

Download an electronic copy of your owners manual here and do a search for thermostat.  

https://www.monacocoach.com/service-and-repairs/

Slight correction.  The Aquahot does have to be on, and heating, but it doesn't necessarily need to be on diesel.  Depending on the temperature, and the Aquahot, the electric element(s) may be enough.  Also, the thermostat pictured is the corresponding thermostat, and controls the Zone (usually Zone 2), no matter how the inside thermostats are set.  At least on my Aquahot 600D.  Even if the Aquahot is turned OFF, when that basement thermostat gets below the set point, it will tell the Aquahot to start up the zone pump and turn on the corresponding cozy fan.  I found this when working on something in the bay next to the Aquahot, and heard the fan running.  I have confirmed this operation with Aquahot (again, at least for my 600D, although the tech didn't seem to differentiate models).  Since I often leave my coach stored in cold Colorado weather, I have installed a switch inline with that thermostat so it won't signal the Aquahot.  Just have to remember to flip it when you do want basement heat.

  -Rick N.

On 10/30/2023 at 2:31 AM, randys006 said:

Great suggestion Rick! In addition to taking more space in your bay, this one might be more work in a lot of cases though. But it's certainly viable for folks who prefer not to handle the circuit board.

Assuming most coaches are like mine, there isn't much extra length on the input wires (nil on shore and maybe 6" on genset. The input to the coach has some slack though). Those all have to get into the new box (40100 or equivalent), so you have to choose between extending the wires, adding heavy jumper wires between the relay input terminals, or moving the old-one-now-monitor-only box so the new one can take it's place. I would move the box, since extending the wires safely would require jumper blocks that then have to be put inside another sturdy enclosure; and as Rick said, the heavy jumper wires are a pain.

Remove the current sensors after you get the old box out and slip them onto the coach input wires while you're wiring up the output (the same as I did). Then, in order to see the proper text on the Aladdin*, the old box does need to have both inputs connected. Only a small current will be flowing though (maybe 1/4 Amp to power the old circuit board), so assuming you did not choose the "heavy jumper wires" approach, you just connect the inputs of both units with 14-gauge wires. I think both units have spade terminals available. Now, on the 40250 there was also a set of wires on the output terminals. These are presumably just output voltage monitors and nothing else, and I didn't see that being reported by the Aladdin so I just left them out. (I'll report back if I learn that they are necessary in the future). Viola!

Note--the Aladdin text is simply operated by a timer on the old board, so you do have to remember that the actual timing is likely different since it's controlled by the new board. This acts the same as the way I did it.

Also, if any of the old relays do still work, you can try to disable them or just leave then alone. The old switches will operate if they're able to, and that does bring up some considerations. On power usage, I would guess 1A tops while the relay is closing, but their static power draw that holds them closed will be tiny. 14-gauge input wires is plenty. You'll probably hear the extra "click", but you already know if that will annoy you since it's the same click you have always heard 😉 

Of course there are still other ways to do it, but I think these are the two best options in situations when the relay(s) have failed, but the communication still works.

@Tom Cherry suggested I move the rebuild discussion over to a new post; I'll do that and add this to it as well.

* the Aladdin displays messages such as "No AC power connected", "Power Delay Active", "Shore Power Selected", "GENSET Power Selected", and it has timed progressions between them during transition states.

I removed the old transfer switch, mounted the new transfer switch in its place, and then mounted the old transfer switch where the output wires that connect to the main breakers (main power panel) could reach.  Then made jumpers from the new transfer switch output to the old transfer switch, and then bypassed the contactors in the old transfer switch so that they were always connected to the the input (shore power) and were never disconnected.  Then used the electronics to feed the Aladdin as it had previously.  Of course, all this depends upon having room to mount both transfer switches.

  -Rick N.

3 hours ago, Chargerman said:

The new Camco Extreme they just came out with will fit in a 4” storage sleeve

I looked it up, but it is not clear how the hose connecter will both fit inside 4" and at the same time fit over the existing dump valve.  Do they have an adapter that fits on the dump valves to reduce it to a smaller connector on the hose? 

2 hours ago, Chargerman said:

I ended up mounting a 5” PVC square fence post cover on top of the side of the storage bay  slide for my stinky slinky but I see that Rhino just came out with a new hose that will fit in a 4” tube so I will get a set of those. 

Note that the connectors are larger, and while the hose may fit, the connectors on each end won't. Before the macerater, I had to remove one end to store.

  - Rick N 

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Fascinating.  On the newer or older Monaco Legacy coaches….the block heater is on the main panel.  That is NOT fed by the Inverter.  The 2000 watt inverters of the early 2000’s and on was the “inverting” or power wattage.  The Inverters were powered by 30 amp breakers….30 X 120 equals 3600 watts.  SO, you had 30 amps of usable power in the “pass through” mode….but, only 16.7 amps of “inverted” power.

Not disputing what you observed, but without a circuit, hard to evaluate.  90 amps usually means, on a 2000 watt inverter,  that has only 100 A of DC charging capacity, is that the Charger is in BULK or “sock it to it” mode.

Maybe someone has a print…but today, the block heaters are ALL Genny or Shore….just as the Water Heaters, Gas Refrig Electric elements and water heater electric elements….they feed off the main panel, as the AC’s do…

My Wiring Diagram Documents only go back to 1996, I owned a 1997 Dynasty, so I know what I speak.  I am attaching 1996 and 1998 Dynasty 110 VAC Wiring Distribution Diagrams clearly showing the Block Heater on the Inverter.  I can't answer why - only state the facts.  If you want the actual wiring circuitry as to how this was accomplished, blow up the circuit I have circled in the 1996 drawing.  Back then, the Shore Power (Generator) did NOT go through the inverter, and it didn't have an internal transfer switch like you are thinking of.  The Shore Power was relay switched between the Inverter and Shore in a separate device (the one I mentioned above.  By 2002, the Dynasty and above had gone to the circuitry you are thinking about, with a enable switch on the dash, an not powered by the inverter.  I don't have 2001 Dynasty Wiring Diagrams so I can't say when the changed occurred other than it was in either 2000 or 2001.  

Your math is correct regarding the amount of pass-through current, IF the shore power went through the inverter - I didn't as explained above.  Therefore, the full 50 Amps was available, times 2 since it's a 220 device.  When the inverter is power those outlets that it's connected to, if it was a 2000 Watt inverter (I think mine was 2500, but not sure) you would be limited to 2000 Watts, which indeed is 16.7 volts if output is 120 VAC.  Not sure that matters in this conversation.

Now, the 90 Amps is at 12.5 VDC which is 1125 Watts.  In fact, a 2000 Watt Inverter could draw 160 Amps at maximum load.  I think (but am not sure, and I don't have that coach anymore) the inverter 12 VDC input was fused at 200 Amps, but that doesn't have anything to do with inverter capability.  Now the Battery Charger capability has nothing to do with the inverter capability.  Yes, you are correct that a 2000 Watt Inverter's Battery Charging capability may be 100 Amps at max charging.  But, again, those are two distinctly separate devices in one box we conventionally call the inverter.  But neither depends upon the other.  In fact, my 3000 Watt Victron only has 125 or 150 Amp battery charger.  If charger were a factor in Inverter capacity, that would mean it had less than 2000 Watts (150 x 12.5 = 1875 Watts).

Your are correct that "today" all Monaco coaches' Block Heaters are only on Shore or Gen power.  But that wasn't the case for Monaco "Legacy" coaches.

16 hours ago, randys006 said:

Oops, guess I never hit 'send' yesterday. Guess y'all are getting two for the price of one.

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Update from yesterday (10/27): popped the board out of the ATS and did some bench testing, poked around, and verified that either or both of the shore power control and relay are toast. I wasn't really able to test the relay since I don't have a schematic, but the few things I tried would not get it to engage. (details omitted for safety purposes/CYA)

I learned that the company (formerly TRC, mine is a Surge Guard 40250 btw) is now part of Southwire and they do still sell a comparable unit...the 40450RVC3, for a paltry $1200... I found a cheaper version (40100) at the local camping world for $189. They actually still use the exact same switches that mine has! Although, the physical contacts on the original unit are fine--I do get full power when I hold the switch closed manually. I'm seriously considering going Mythbusters on the thing and attaching a linear actuator on it so I can engage it manually when I need to...I'll let y'all know what I decided in a few days 😉 
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Today (10/28): I decided to use the new 40100 and and since the RV-C diagnostics from the 40250 were still working, I'm hoping to reuse it's board. The sensors are usually passive, and with digital communication I expect it to work.I'm pleased that say that it was a success and everything is working great! The Aladdin displays all the diagnostics without complaint. I also picked up an external surge protector since the 40100 doesn't have one.

On the 40250 RV-C board, it seemed important to connect it the same as the original, so I labeled everything clearly before starting. The 40250 (old one) has three sets of 3-wire voltage probes; red-white-green for both inputs (shore and genset) and output which are color-matched to standard 240V RV wiring. The 40100 (new one) already had extra spade terminals on all of the inputs, and I scavenged some of the spade terminals from the 40250 for the output side. This allowed me to reuse all of the existing wires from the 40250. Let me mention that it's important to make sure you're not overloading anything when adding circuitry like this. In this case, the probe terminals are directly connected to the inputs and the size of the wires (in the 24-28 gauge range) tells us that it is low power. Since it's the same manufacturer and I can see a lot of the hardware on the board, I'm quite confident it's a "dumb" measurement and the boards will not interfere with each other. For current probes, the 40250 simply had two transformers (the donut type), one on each HOT output leg. The 40250 (old one) had an extra screw block where the wires from the relay output connect on one side, and the feed to the main circuit breaker on the other. The 40100 (new one) did not have that block, so I just slipped one transformer onto each of the red and black feed wires before connecting them to the output.

It's still a mess right now, and I need to go pick up an enclosure for the 40250 board (it's existing box is WAY too big to reuse). I'll post some pics after I finish getting it all buttoned up and tidy in a couple days.

Cheers 🙂

Good show.  I have not looked up the 40100, but the big difference between the 40250 and others is not just the current (the donuts you described) and voltage, but that this data needs to be put on a serial buss that the Aladdin can access.  I have a different setup, with all the monitoring components in a separate box, that goes to what Aladdin calls the ACI (AC Interface).  I believe, but am not sure, that interface is mounted on the circuit card.  Another option would have been to install the new transfer switch, feeding the existing transfer switch, but the transfer function bypassed such that the input was hardwired to the output, and use the old transfer switch just for monitoring purposes.  This might be easier for less skilled owners or tech to accomplish.  Of course, this would require real estate (space) nearby for the new transfer switch, and likely additional 6 gauge wires to interconnect, and those are not easy to manipulate.  

  -Rick N.

I agree with Ivan, you either have a huge draw on the inverter, or the house batteries are bad and can't hold a charge, even though they seem to be taking one.  The battery charger is doing what I would expect given the voltages your posted.  You might go so far, if you are comfortable, of disconnect the AC OUTPUT of the inverter.  Then turn on the inverter and see if it behaves the same, or if it stays at 12.5 or so for a while.  If it does, then you know you have a problem in what is connected to the inverter.  You have something drawing huge loads, or possibly shorted wires.  I had a similar, but not as severe, situation when I got my first Monaco Dynasty.  I never used the inverter because it would peg the current out at about 100 Amps (based on light status).  Luckily another Monacoer was at the Quartzsite Monaco camp, and had the same unit.  In 1997 Dynasty, every out was on the inverter.  Including the block heater, which didn't have a switch back then.  You turned it on by plugging it in.  Well, this was in January, and I had the block heater plugged in before I left Colorado.  It didn't dawn on me that it would run off batteries (via the inverter), but Jim realized the problem right away.  So, you might have something you don't remember or realize is being powered by the inverter.

Good luck.

  -Rick N.

I went to my normal trusted review sites, and none have reviewed Goldenmate.  I looked at other reviews, but few were "technical".  A couple things I found, is that it has a lower capability BMS.  For example, it can only be charged at 50 Amps, Maximum.  That not a real problem.  But there are conflicting reports on temperature shutdown.  Some say it has a temp sensor, but it seems (I can't verify) that it may only work on high temps.  Being from Colorado, when I built my batteries, I made sure the BMS I selected had full cold temp sensing and shutdown, both on charging and discharging.  If you never, ever expect the battery to be exposed to below 32°F (0°C) then this may not be a concern.  Note that low temperature can actually destroy LiFePO4 batteries (no, they don't explode, they just quit working).  It's rated at Max discharge rate of 100 Amps, which yields a max power of 1250 Watts.  Some reviewer were pleased that they were able to draw as much as 150 Amps out of the battery, but, to me, that just shows the BMS has failed to shut it down on Over Current discharge - not good.  Makes me wonder if the other parameters are actually protected by this battery.

One of the main deficiencies of this battery is there is no way to "see" what is going on within the battery box.  Remember, a battery is simply a collection of individual cells, interconnects, and a controller we call a BMS (Battery Management System).  Higher end batteries also incorporate a USB or Bluetooth or both, connection which allows you to view the actual cells, how they are balanced, the actual current, the depth of discharge, etc.  This is often built into the BMS circuit board.  In some cases, you can actually program parameters of the cells and control limits via this connection (although I've never seen a commercially produced battery that allows the user to make any changes).  If you are the type that like to monitor your systems, this is a big deal.  On the other hand, if you don't care about how things work, just that they do, then this might not be a deal breaker.

I think you'll find you'll need two of these, connected in parallel, to provide enough to run your inverter at nominal load.  I'm not talking how long, but that 1250 watts out of the battery is more like 1100 watts out of the inverter after all the losses and inefficiencies (educated guess) are accounted for.  This will not run your microwave, even though most don't suggest running the microwave off the inverter.  My point is if you have a 2500 - 3000 Watt Inverter, or even just a 2000 Watt, you'll want batteries that will allow it to operate at it's rated output, even if you never intend to use it a full power.  

When researching this, I was amazed to find so many lower priced LiFePO4 batteries.  There were several on Amazon for just under $200 (100 A-Hr).  One of these is almost the same as 4 Trojan T-105 6-volt batteries, which yield a rated 225 A-Hr at 12 Volts, but you can only use about one-half that if you want maximum life (112.5 A-Hr).  As of today, the best price on T-105 (some consider the "gold standard" of Flooded Lead Acid batteries) is $151.49.  So four would be $605.06 or $2.69 per usable Amp Hourr.  As of today the Goldenmate is $228.99 on Amazon.  So two of these would be $457.98 or $2.29 per usable Amp Hour.  

While the weigh difference is not important to us, since the coach has already been designed and built to handle the FLA batteries, and dropping 50% of the battery weight is negligible compared to the total weight of the coach, there are a couple other considerations.  First, even if this low-priced LiFePO4 doesn't last it's rated 8,000 life cycles, it will likely last longer then FLA batteries.  But I can guarantee that it will charge much faster. This feature alone makes LiFePO4 batteries the choice for dry-camping (boondocking).  Your generator run time will be cut in less than one-half due to the fast charging that LiFePO4 batteries can accept that would boil and destroy FLA unless carefully monitored.  It also allows for faster charging from solar too.  This is because they can take full rated charge (or the max charge you have available) right up to 99% (SOC).  The FLA, AGM, and such stop full current and taper off over many hours to max.  

I can't say these Goldenmate are any better or worse than others in the $200 - $250 price range, but, from the limited reviews I've found, I'd certainly say there were likely worth the price.

  -Rick N.

Personally, I am a convert, a believer that LiFePO4 should be considered by all, no matter if you are a boondocker or simply travel "power post to power post".  But there are a couple caveats.  First, you need to check that your current inverter/charger can be set to charge LiFePO4 batteries.  If it can't, that need serious consideration.  Also, you need to be aware that it is inadvisable to charge LiFePO4 from engine alternators.  It can accept charging current so high that it can burn out an alternator.  So, often a DC-DC charger is needed.  Also, the charging parameters set for LiFePO4 batteries is not ideal for charging the chassis battery.  So, you need to make changes there too. 

But, as I mentioned above, if you current inverter/charger can be set to charge LiFePO4 batteries (or close, as AGM2 in the Magnum is very close).  Also, CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage) is what LiFePO4 batteries need (the LiFePO4 setting is just a custom setting of CC/CV) so if your inverter has CC/CV, you are good to go.  Given this, and the fact that LiFePO4 batteries can be less expensive than FLA or AGM, that is no longer a valid argument against LiFePO4.

As an aside, I mention LiFePO4 which is the designation (and chemical formula) for Lithium Lead Phosphate which is totally different from LI (Lithium Ion) batteries, which are the ones you have read about exploding or catching fire (cell phone, laptop and Tesla).  LiFePO4 are very safe and won't explode even in a crash.  

  -Rick N. 

2 hours ago, myrontruex said:

Good eyes Steven,

I suspect most of us assumed he meant 6 volters. There would likely be some smoke involved with four 12 volters . In addition, he stated things worked on generator as well as on a 50 amp shoreline. 

Not 100% clear on your batteries. Your previous owner had two 12 volt batteries in place of where four 6 volters previously lived?

That is possible. Living on shoreline a person really does not need a load of heavy batteries to get by with. 

In any case, your charger would likely continue to charge, even with bad batteries. It will do its best to fill up the empty electron bucket, however the bad battery will never come up to the proper voltage and the charger will keep trying to get it up to a charged state. 

 

There would be no smoke or other ill effects if the four 12 volt batteries were connected in parallel.  

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

@randys006

GOOD catch by Steve.  If you do have 4 of the 12 VDC AGM Deep cycles, then you need to look at the batteries or google.  The AGM's are only rated at 100 AH.  Guess it is one of them AGM Thingies.  SO, following the rules....4 in Series, assuming 100 Amp Hours would be 400....so set the AH there.  Never realized the AGM's were rated at half the AH of a Flooded Cell.

Guess we all learn.  BUT, in reality....to ME, it don't change things.  The MAX Current out of the MS2812 is 125 A DC....so with a 20 amp supply.....scary CLOSE.

BUT, if the Charger is not ON....then, will go back to "CHECK the power, at each connection, with a LOAD" or see what your Aladdin says.

Nooooo.  If connected four 100 A-Hr AGM (or any other chemistry batteries) in SERIES, you would still end up with 100 A-Hrs, but it would be 48 VOLTS!!  Now you really would see the smoke Myron mentioned in his post.  Clearly, the batteries are NOT connected in Series.

Now, if you connected the four 100 A-Hr batteries in PARALLEL, you would still have the 12 Volts, but since each battery is contributing 100 A-Hrs to the total "system", you would have 400 A-Hrs.

I have seen this done, but it is rare.  In fact, back in college, we were taught that it was a poor design to install batteries in parallel, since the internal resistance of each battery varies (maybe more 50 years ago) and one battery would discharge to the level of the poorest battery.  Series does not have this problem.  Of course, that assumed we could spec a battery with the required current and voltage requirements need for the design, and didn't have to "make do" with what was available "off the shelf" meaning not custom designed.

In any case, as long as the batteries were connected in any combination that yields 12 volts, no smoke.  Regarding the Maximum output of a battery charger (Magnum or otherwise) that is the Maximum Current that the Battery Charger can deliver.  The batteries can't suck or draw more current (combined with other DC loads) that that maximum.  So, if I have 50,000 A-Hr batteries that need charging, it will not hurt the charger, it just may take over a year, assuming no further discharge.  Nothing is hurt or damaged.  Now, that is not true if we are speaking voltage.  It must be the proper voltage for the system.  If readers think it necessary for more details of Circuits 101, I think it best to start another post.

  -Rick N.

I apologize, but dinner is ready, and I only read your original post.  But if your inverter says "inverting" then it is not seeing 110 VAC on its input.  Since you say it works while on generator, but not shore power, it appears that the leg of the 220 that the inverter is on is bad.  That can be anywhere from the power pedestal to the transfer switch.  Easiest to check that you have 220 VAC at the main power panel 50 Amp circuit breaker, and go from there.  I'll try and get to all the other responses after dinner and see where you are sorting this out.

  -Rick N.

39 minutes ago, Rowdyrick said:

Waterskier that’s exactly how I do it but we were at a campground and 2 people questioned me on why I don’t bring the bags back up and I said I follow the manual and it doesn’t say to do it and I was told the manual must be wrong and I laughed and said every coach must be different 

Seems like that is a silly response from them.  If you brought the air bags back up, you would likely no longer be supported by the jacks.  It would totally defeat the purpose of leveling.

  -Rick

49 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

I meet a guy in Indio, Ca. in 11-2005 at a RV Park who was inflating his coach tires with a  powertank.com . He was a distributor for the product. I purchased a 15# Tank and all the accessories for the use of it. I had the tank filled with Nitrogen, MY choice. It was amazing. Filled coach tires from 105# to 110# in less than -1- minute. I installed it in the coach basement, with quick disconnects, and used a 50' hose to air up the coach and toad from either side of the coach. The tank of nitrogen would last 1 to 1-1/2 years between refills, costing between 12-14$  at Gas Supply businesses around the country as we were Full Timers.  I paid 495$ for it, and  Sold it in Spring of 2014 for 350$.  I would do it again . 

 

 

This reminded me I could just use one of my Scuba Tanks.  They hold between 3000 - 4200 PSI.  I know some plumbers (who are also Scuba divers) that use these tank to run their air tools.  

  -Rick N.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

@Steve P

This topic is, per discussion with the “staff”, WAY off the rails.  Therefore, I will PM you and we can talk and I will give you some help.  Therefore, it is requested that further posts, dealing with the “add this” recommendations, cease so Steve can comprehend and determine if his batteries and systems are working OK as well as understand how much capacity he has and his options, by doing a few simple voltage measurements, can give his peace of mind.

Gang…..Thanks in advance for letting us sort through this.  The subject of “ADD ON’s, especially Battery Monitoring, was informative….but really mucking up the original topic.  It may be a good “general discussion” item….I may even start one….or someone else can…but not here….

Steve, FWIW….a picture of where the Big Boy solenoid is and the “components” around it would be a great help.  Here is where it gets tricky and we often have such “gee, I wonder why” situations where the OEM configuration has been modified.

I started to “correct” you as to having a TRUE BIRD system, as Monaco usually called that out in the electrical section of the sales brochure….which is NOT in the Knight.  Curiosity and a “trust but verify” nagging thought forced me, before I made that statement, to pull your manual.  BINGO, if you read the first page of section 8, you DO have a BIRD system.  OK…that means that there is NO NEED for a “maintainer” and adding it would be a total waste….UNLESS there was a problem with the BIRD control module.  When you referred to it as a “Maintainer” that then conjures up the image of a  Ample-Start….

https://www.bestconverter.com/AMP-L-START_c_211.html

Rick described, in detail, how it these “thieves”….which is what Ample-Start, calls their own product….I have used that term for years…..LOL.  works…..but, it is only for NON BIRD systems….of course, unless one doesn’t trust their BIRD circuity….and installed suspenders in case their belt broke.  

This confusion in terminology or the misuse of a name for a component is exactly what happens when we don’t have enough information or perhaps the proper understanding or terminology.  OK….you are probably referring to the Intellitec Diesel2 Bi-Directional “BIRDL control moduel….and it is not, by our commonly used  definitions here, a “maintainer”….The Big Boy Solenoid, part of a BIRD system,  is sort of a “dumb” slave.  It needs the Diesel2 Control device or module to activate when needed as well as deactivate when both banks are fully charged. Assuming that is right, please post a picture of the “device”.

Since you stated you have other priorities, please make sure you read and try to understand sections 8 & 9 of your manual.  Often, for folks that are not experienced, and that is no “slam” on you…I reread mine at least once a month…, many of the topics here are covered in detail and we encourage members to READ THE MANUAL.  Many times, we, the staff, will actually do that…so we often request that an owner do some research and “read the manual”.  Yes, that comment has become a “discussion” item with the staff in that many minor issues can be fixed without posting.  YES, if you don’t understand, then posting a topic to get “educated” is always welcomed…OK…so much for that.

I will send you a PM and we can talk and I will help you determine your battery SOC and give you some easy to use numbers so that you will know, just by checking the meter on your Magnum remote, that you will have battery power the next morning….snd when to crank or use your genny.

Once you understand this, then you can start to evaluate the costs and benefits of any additional instrumentation or adding Solar or getting nee batteries or whatever.  That was your original request….

Tom, he does have a BIRD, if you can trust the 2008 Knight Owners Manual, Page 173.  

  -Rick N.

I just downloaded and reviewed your manual.  You don't specifically ask, but you MUST extend/retract the slide-out room(s) (slides) with the jacks retracted and the motorhome supported by the air suspension (air bags).  Do not operate with the air bags deflated.  

So, the first step would be to find a level spot to park, engage the parking brake, do a walk-around to make sure that the slides will not hit anything and that the utilities are okay.  Some people hook up their utilities next, but that can be done at any time - the order of connecting utilities is not an issue.  After the walk-around, make sure the engine is off, parking brake engaged, maybe open a window so extending the slides does not create a vacuum, remove any slide locks, and then extend the slides (taken from page 104 of the 2009 Knight Owners Manual).

The leveling procedure is different from other Monaco's.  It requires the Ignition switch ON and the engine running, transmission in Neutral, and Park brake applied.  Lower the air suspension by stepping on the brake several times to get the air pressure below 60 PSI.  With the ignition on, push and hold the AIr Dump switch to lower the Air Suspension.  Then follow the procedure begining on page 219 of the Owners Manual to either Automatically Level or Manual Level the coach.  

To retract, Park Brake ON, Trans in Neutral, Engine Running, turn on Control Pad, Push RETRACT ALL JACKS button, allow all jacks to return to full retract, purs the ON/OFF button on the control pad to turn the leveling system Off.  Then allow the coach to build up air pressure, to full ride height (allow to build to 120 PSI to ensure suspension if at ride height).  Then make sure the ignition is OFF, Park Brake still set, Jacks fully retracted, and coach full supported by air suspension (air bags).  Then retract the slides and install Slide Locks, if applicable.

  You will not bring the air pressure back up to 120 PSI until you have retracted the jacks.  

Hope this answers your question.

  -Rick N.

I have used something similar for my Jeep tires (32") but they only require about 35 PSI (less when off-roading).  It will take a couple minutes, I didn't time it, to go from 25 PSI to 35PSI on those jeep tires, which have less volume, and far less pressure than your coach tires (if that's what you are looking to use it for).  It will be interesting to see if you can take a coach tire from say, 70 PSI up to 110 PSI on a single battery charge, and how long it will take.  I gave up on my Viair, and bought a 110 VAC compressor with small pancake tank because I didn't want to wait 30 minutes to fill my tires.

  -Rick N.

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

As i said, we have a lot of smart folks on Lithium.  Good the price is coming down.   Your knowledge of how they work and such would be appreciated.  However, even with my out od date facts on costs, the successful Lithium users, if I can generalize have a much more technical and practical level of experience….and he states he is just learning.  In addition, the charging and proper care of the investment is, or at least what I gather, the major obstacle….so, if he converted, his Magnum would not be the charging device.   So, until he defines his needs and verifies the SOC of his AGM’s talk of replacement seems premature….but all the posts seem to be advocating a change.  Maybe a change is not necessary….that is fundamental….maybe got lost in the info blitz.
 

As stated, OP @Steve P is still in the perhaps, information overload state…..and needs to understand exactly how the basic charging system and how his banks work and such first.  Then determine his needs.  But fundamentally, he asked about “tips” and got bombarded.  My focus is basic understanding of his equipment and also what he needs…

Over the past 10 plus years, I have spent a LOT of time on the phone with Trojan and Magnum.  Not exaggerating, but probably 5 or more extended discussions on care and maintenance with Trojan.  Three or more…approaching 20 calls with Magnum.  So, here is the way that I understand it and why the “simplistic” set your AGS to 50% SOC or 12.0 VDC, to use your term, is 10 years out of date.  I’ll try a different approach to explain it.  At least 5 Magnum techs have agreed that this concept is the correct one for the Magnum system. THEN, you might ask….why not change the manual.  The resounding answer is….”Our average user would not be able to fully understand it”.  The consensus was that if the house bank was on the “fair” side, then there might not be enough House capacity to crank the Generator.

OK, point blank asked them….what if the Genny is cranked off the Chassis like most of the newer (as in 2006 or so) Dynasty and above are configured.  Half did not know that….and the comment was that most MH’s use the House Bank to crank the Genny.  Then they revert back to the “keep it SIMPLE” and not get into the real world…..and most of our folks here, that delve into the level that you do, should easily understand.

OK…..This is what Magnum and Trojan say and agree with my statement.

First….the Magnum remote is NOT a precise instrument and there is NO Calibration procedure.  Purchase a new remote….it may not display the same voltages..  +/-10% is the advertised tolerance.  Now, from helping many folks, off and online, I know the remote is more accurate.  But, the “Load” or “unloaded” comparison of the House Bank with a quality VOM and comparing that to the Remote USUALLY results in the remote reading lower…I ballpark that at 0.1 to 0.2 VDC.  So, in effect, your batteries are a bit better than the remote indicates.  The CAVEAT…an owner MUST do the comparison and have his own “real voltage” compensation number.  It sure would be intriguing if I could post a poll and get a lot of knowledgeable Magnum owners to do the load and no load VOM vs Remote readings….maybe I could try that??.

OK…let’s assume that the remote and the VOM ARE the same….

Now, lets look at what one is trying to accomplish….you want the Genny to start when the “RECOVERY” voltage is at a 50% SOC.  This is Trojan’s Mantra.  Run or discharge the batteries to a 50 SOC…which is NOT the LOAD Voltage.  Trojan recommends a “test” or discharge rate EDIT 5 to 10% or around 7.5%. END EDIT….of the total Amp Hour capacity.  I did the math in so many posts….but for a 4 battery bank, you need around 450 Watts of AC load.  Please run the numbers yourself and verify…I do it occasionally as a “did I do it right”. OK, you put on a Quartz Halogen work light in that range.  That, other than a carbon pile tester, which I was told won’t work, is the simplest.

Next up.  The intent is to set the AGS to the LOAD Voltage that will be expected so that the batteries are at a 50 SOC.  The definition of SOC is the RECOVERY voltage….NOT the LOAD voltage.  

NOW…how big a deal is this….depends on you.  If you don’t mind getting say 75% of the optimum life out of a bank….set it for the load.  But. If you understand that there is only a finite number of discharge and recharge cycles, like Trojan says, then, based on their testing and research and experience, to get the optimum life, you need to set the AGS to start recharging at the REAL or Recovery SOC.  

Thats the best I can do, approaching it from a different avenue,  YES….the Magnum does NOT trigger the AGS when a blip hits….but the AGS works off the DISPLAYED voltage….maybe the voltage has to drop 0.1 VDC for a minute or two.

SO, first you have to know how accurate the REMOTE is…compared to the actual bank voltage.  Second, you need to know, from the standard 10% drawdown or discharge rate, what the recovery voltage is…..but you also need to know what the LOAD voltage is…so, you do the test, as Trojan outlines…and set the LOAD voltage to the value….that achieves the 12.0 VDC Recovery voltage….and the laws of physics or EE show that a discharged battery, left alone….no load, will spring back.  How much…that is the purpose of the test,  I know mine.

That’s the long and short of it….

BTW, I assume your statement about your Victron 700 and the accuracy is based on a side vy side comparison.  Just how accurate are they?  But regardless of the meter vs VOM, the set point for the AGS has to be the “load voltage” to achieve a 50 SOC or around 12.0 V….

Thanks for the comments….and I will defer to you and others now that Lithium prices have come down….

@Steve P
 

Steve, the chassis batteries only power the radio when ON.  The “standby” or memory for the clock and presets are PROBABLY….assuming that our lower ends are all the same, hooked up to the House.  Yes…look at your prints….or kill the house bank…disconnect the jumpers…..wait a while….the radio has in internal capacitor for blips……maybe an hour…..then reconnect….turn on the ignition.  Is the clock right?  

Next, yes, you DO have, based on what I know, a BIRD system.  But you stated there was a maintainer.  There are two types of maintainer.

One is the Lambert or the Ample Start.  These are DC THIEVES.  They STEAL power from the House to keep the chassis maintained.  It COULD have been that the previous owner did NOT have shore power in storage and added that.  Having that does NOT mean that the Big Boy BIRD Charging system does not work.  The downside of the theif….it will eventually KILL the house.

the OTHER type of maintainer, for folks WITHOUT a BIRD system, but have power in storage, is a 120 VAC 1.5 or slightky higher “box”….this is quite common.

You need to be specific in which type.

You are already inundated.  So, getting into “OK, HOW DO I TEST AND VERIFY” my BIRD system is another subject for another day after you grasp the basics.  Delving into that is not recommended now,

BUT, if you DO have power in storage and are concerned about your BIRD system working….the simple, temporary step…put a jumper cable between the POSITIVE terminals on the HOUSE and CHASSIS….thus…both banks stay charged.   Many of us do that for extended periods…..

Stay focused…..and read….

Tom, this is an interesting conversation, but I don't think the OP was asking how batteries are work, or even considered replacing them.  But I must address a couple things that could be misleading or superseded by technology.

  First, all the charts and voltage to SOC graphs were developed in the lab using what was considered sophisticated equipment.  That equipment is now available to all of us at a very reasonable price.  Since we all didn't have common place Battery Monitors 20 -25 years ago, the manufacturers ran test and noted the voltage when the SOC was at different values.  The voltage does not determine the SOC.  Indeed, voltage has absolutely nothing to do with the SOC of a battery.  But everyone wanted to know "how much battery power" they had.  Since voltmeters were common, the manufactures generated graphs and charts that interpolated SOC to voltage, for a specific battery.  The only reason you need to consider voltage in SOC is that is used to determine Battery Capacity.  You have partially described that process of discharging at a fixed known rate (Amps) until the battery reaches the voltage the manufacturer defines as "fully discharged".  By maintaining that constant current, over the whole discharge time (not easy as many load are resistive, and as the voltage decreases during discharge, so does the current (E=IR) so some means need to be incorporated to ensure the current remains the same over the full discharge cycle.  Then, you simply multiply the the discharge current rate (in Amps) time the time it took to reach the manufacturers defined voltage (in Hours) and you have the battery capacity (in Amp-Hours).  But this is not normally necessary.  Most of us can accept the manufacturers stated capacity instead.  After you know the Battery Capacity, you never need to look at voltage again.  State of Charge (SOC) is a measure of how many electrons are still available based on how many a fully battery has.  So, you measure the electron flow out of the battery (Amps is a measure of electron flow over time).  If you had 100 electrons (for illustrative purposes only) and 50 of them were drawn out of the battery, you have 50% capacity left or the SOC is 50%  It makes no difference if the battery we are talking about is 6 volt, 12 volt, or 48 volt.  Granted the voltages at 50% will be different than at 100%, but what we really care about is how much capacity is left (SOC) or how much capacity we have used (DOD - Depth Of Discharge).  Since the instrumentation to measure the flow of electrons out (and back into under charging) is readily available, there is no need to worry about voltage or the accuracy of the Inverter voltmeter (in so far as using voltage to determine remaining battery capacity.  So, we can basically forget about voltage and calibration and accuracy of the voltmeter for purposes of determining SOC.  The electron flow is usually measured by a Shunt installed in the negative battery terminal such that all current for that battery bank must flow through it, and electronic circuitry to take the measurement from the shunt, and apply algorithms (math functions) to it using the user inputed Battery Capacity and provides the SOC value.  This is often displayed on a readout, but more recently may not include the readout, and send the info via Bluetooth to a phone or tablet for display. 

Ok, now on to AGS (Auto Gen Start).  I think I understand what you are trying to relate, in simple terms the battery voltage of a battery under load is lower that the voltage would be if that battery were not under a load.  The difference depends on a lot of things, but primarily the amount of load and the Battery Capacity.  Obviously, the higher the load, the more it will drag down the instantaneous battery voltage.  But the Battery Capacity also plays into this too.  If I have twice the battery capacity, the amount the voltage will drop under the same load is less (not necessarily exactly one-half though).  So, what you are proposing, is what Magnum talks about in their remote manual for setting the AGS, is to use a slightly lower voltage than what voltage has been extrapolated to relate to 50% SOC.  This discussion applies to Lead Acid (FLA, AGM, etc.), NOT Lithium.  Since it is an industry accepted practice to limit discharge of lead acid batteries to no more than 50% SOC.  Ideally, we would use SOC (as Victron and many newer technology devices allow), since we wouldn't have to worry about this pesky voltage scenario, but most Magnum Inverters, even though they can display SOC, don't allow for that to be used in AGS.  The term RECOVERY, as defined by Lifeline (I can find no reference to that term being used by Trojan) refers to deeply discharged (less than 1.93 volts/cell or 11.6 volts for a 12 volt battery).  They define a special procedure to recharge these batteries in hopes of rejuvenating them.  I think it best that "Recovery" be eliminated from discussions because its use is confusing. 

Victron's Specification for State of Charge (SOC) is =/- 0.1% over the 0 - 100% range.  Voltage is =+-0.01V over 0 - 100Volts, Current +/- 0.01 (0 - 10A), +/- 0.1A )10 - 500A) and +/- 1.0A (500 - 9999A).  Much more accurate than we need for our purposes.  But remember, this equipment is designed for commercial (small towns in remote areas use Victron equipment with solar farm for the their sole power).  

Tom, you are wrong in your characterization of Lambert or Amp-L-Start and similar types of maintainers as THIEVES.  This is simply not true.  Yes, they take voltage from one battery bank to maintain another battery bank, but ONLY when a battery bank is being charged.  The only connect the two banks together when the voltage of the "doner" bank is above 13.5 volts, and disconnect when the voltage drops to 12.8 volts.  (These are spec's from one device, so the actual voltages may differ slightly).  So, there is no possibility of the device allowing the "doner" battery to discharge.  There are great devices, and I highly recommend them for those who use solar.  For people who use mostly solar to charge their batteries, most connect it only to the house batteries.  Under these conditions, the chassis batteries would never get charged (assuming the generator is not used).  But with these types of maintainers, once the house batteries are charged (above 13.5 volts - typically Float Voltage) they engage and begin "stealing" the excess charge from the solar panel to maintain the chassis batteries.  

I'm not being argumentative, but trying to be informative, and reduce "wives tales".

  -Rick N.

20 minutes ago, jimc99999 said:

This is coach-dependent. My 97 Windsor had the generator starting from the house batteries, which sucked. If the batteries had been used much, I had to use the battery boost to start the generator, and when that started getting unreliable, a set of jumper cables from the chassis to house batteries. 

When I replaced the battery isolator, boost solenoid and chassis battery trickle charger with the ML-ACR, I also pulled the generator start circuit off the house side and connected to the chassis batteries. Much better idea, because the chassis batteries always have the juice and they're built to flow starting current. 

I did the same on my 1997 Dynasty.

14 hours ago, Steve P said:

 

Everyone's insights are tremendously helpful.  I'm just wanting the convenience of overnighting at a Cracker Barrel or similar.   Maybe Harvest Hosts if that goes well.  And after that, who knows, maybe NP / BLM...

GOOD tip Rick N on using the battery disconnects to see what the generator uses for starting !

Tom - I'm still digesting all your advice before I start any battery testing. 

As far as my BIRD, the previous owner said he just used the battery maintainer on the side of the battery compartment to charge the chassis batteries.  It wasn't until a couple months later the solenoid in the BIRD circuit must be bad... although I haven't tested it (too many other projects).

That solenoid is used both ways.  If it is bad charging the chassis batteries when on ShorePower, it is also bad charging the House batteries when running the main engine alternator. You can tell if it is engaged because it will be hot to the touch.  If engaged, you should not have more than 0.2 Volts difference between the two main lugs. 

  -Rick N 

6 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Your coach being the same MY as mine, I'm going to say there's a better chance your gen get's it's starting power from the house batteries.

Even more reason to follow Ivan's advice and not run your house bank below 12.0v (without a load), or they may not turn over your gen!

Easy way to find out.  Turn off the Chassis Battery Disconnect Switch and try to start the generator.  If it starts, it's starting off the House bank.  If it doesn't start, turn on the Chassis Battery Disconnect Switch and turn Off the House Battery Disconnect Switch.  If it start, it's starting off the Chassis bank.  If it still doesn't start, you have a problem.  It is relatively easy on many Monaco coaches to switch the generator to start off the other set of batteries.  Both Chassis and House Battery circuits have large cables running to the FRB (Front Run Bay).  The generator cable also connects to one of those circuits in the FRB.  Simply remove from one and connect to the other.

  -Rick N.

6 hours ago, cbr046 said:

There's always the Boost Switch but for a $100 Gooloo GP4000 you can have the spare of all spares - https://www.amazon.com/GOOLOO-GP4000-Starter-SuperSafe-Portable/dp/B09HJH1S41/

Todd gave it a good review on Project Farms - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMXyoIBJyJA&t=356s

- b

If you have LiFePO4 House batteries, I do NOT recommend trying to Boost to start the main engine.  If you are boosting from the Chassis batteries to start the generator connected to the House batteries, it is less of a concern, if think.  I have disabled my BIRD since I don't want either system connecting to the other.

  -Rick N.

4 hours ago, Steve P said:

Clearly, the first few nights, I am not going to sleep well (due to frequent battery checks!).

You can do a "dry run" in your driveway, during the day.  Yes, there will be slightly more lights used in the evening, but then slightly less after you retire, with the possible exception of the furnace. 

  -Rick N.