Ponding around Air Conditioner

[bpperk]

While cleaning my roof I discovered that water accumulates around my air conditioners. I would have expected that water would flow away but instead I believe this indicates the air conditioners have settled causing a low place around them. How to repair this? 2004 Signature.

[Chargerman]

I would think that your units would have internal drain lines. My 06 does. Do you know if this is the case?  If so they likely are plugged up with crud. I would pull a cover and look for a low point drain with a hose attached. 

[bpperk]

Not what I am asking about. When it rains or I wash the roof I see a pond around the air conditioner that doesn’t drain off. My condensate drains work fine. 

[Chargerman]

Ok. I got it. Were your A/C units replaced?  If so maybe they were overtightened when installed?

Edited March 11, 2021 by Chargerman

[bpperk]

One was replaced. But all three suffer the same. It seems like the roof has collapsed some.

Edited March 11, 2021 by bpperk

[Chargerman]

It may have. Might be worth getting new gaskets and pulling one off to investigate. 

[David Pratt]

The issue you are having is Common to the 2003-2005 Exec and Signatures that were built in Coberg, WA. There were some units that were built that the crossbars that the AC's mounted on were not properly welded to the side wall and over time broke free and the roof sagged due to the weight of the AC unit. The problem was mostly common the the front AC unit and the drivers side.

The only fix is to remove the headliner to access the crossbars, raise them to the proper position and re-weld them to the sidewall frames Or the alternative is to just live with it.

There are many of them out there with this issue and most owners are unaware of it unless they experience the ponding and inspect further. The cost to repair it will be costly and the issue will not get any worse if left alone.

Monaco new of the issue around 2006, but would only fix it if the coach was still under warranty and was discovered by the owner. Monaco did not issue any recalls o r SB to fix the problem.

 

[georgecederholm]

As David notes above, this is a known, albeit not commonly discussed, issue with rigs of the OP’s vintage. It does not relate to clogged drain lines or over-tightened gaskets. 

One way to partially address the issue, short of what David described as the true fix, is to carefully build up the roof underlay to raise the level of the fiberglass roof skin relative to the air conditioner opening. The roof skin is not fully attached to the underlay level in most cases. Years ago, someone described a process of lifting the fiberglass roof layer and sliding thin shims into place to raise the roof level. I did this on our 2005 Exec while I had the front air conditioner off to fix a gasket issue. I slid a piece of luan about 2 feet wide and 4 feet long under the fiberglass at the rear side of the opening, then another piece about 2 feet by 2 feet on top of that. I didn’t want to do more at that time because I was unsure of the impact.

Adding almost 1/2 inch of thickness under the fiberglass reduced the ponding significantly, to the point where I don’t feel the need to do more. I am careful to not step in the area where the most unsupported lift is, so might “feather” out the added support in the future, if I need to have the roof unit off. If I had more time and the right tools, I probably would have feathered the edges of the luan before sliding them in place.

Probably not a solution for everyone, but definitely a cheaper alternative to get partial relief.

[Paul J A]

1 hour ago, David Pratt said:

The issue you are having is Common to the 2003-2005 Exec and Signatures that were built in Coberg, WA. There were some units that were built that the crossbars that the AC's mounted on were not properly welded to the side wall and over time broke free and the roof sagged due to the weight of the AC unit. The problem was mostly common the the front AC unit and the drivers side.

The only fix is to remove the headliner to access the crossbars, raise them to the proper position and re-weld them to the sidewall frames Or the alternative is to just live with it.

There are many of them out there with this issue and most owners are unaware of it unless they experience the ponding and inspect further. The cost to repair it will be costly and the issue will not get any worse if left alone.

Monaco new of the issue around 2006, but would only fix it if the coach was still under warranty and was discovered by the owner. Monaco did not issue any recalls o r SB to fix the problem.

 

David, I think you meant Coberg, Or. 

[David Pratt]

Yep, Coberg, Oregon. MY BAD!

[bpperk]

Thanks David. Me thinks I am trading this project vehicle for a Newmar Essex. Do we know of any weakness In those vehicle’s ?

[David Pratt]

I would not even consider an Essex over your Signature!

We looked at the NEMAR Essex when we were looking to Upgrade from our 05 Exec. We went and did the Newmar factory tour and I was quite disappointed with the quality of the build at the factory. We also went and did the Entegra Factory tour. I felt that the Entegra Cornerstone was a much better quality coach over the Newmar. Most of the components such as the fiberglass, wiring harnesses etc. are out sourced and not manufactured at the Factory by Newmar or Entegra. Unfortunately when comparing those two coaches to my 05 Exec the Exec was way ahead in quality, build and components. I would have been giving up to much if I were to trade my 05 Exec for either one of those coaches. This was back in 2016 and the Essex was near $900K retail and the Cornerstone was close to $800K and in my opinion both are way overpriced.

I have several friends that have King Aires and Essex Coaches. They all have had their share of issues, Mostly Quality and horrible support. The several friends I know that have Entegras don't seem to have as many issue as those with the Newmar and the Entegra support is much better. Newmar is now owned by Winnebago.

We went to the Foretravel Factory and after the tour the ih-45 was the only coach that I would consider as a replacement for my 05 Exec. After three and a half years of owning the ih-45 I can tell you it was one of the best decisions we made. Factory support is fantastic. The quality of the coach is excellent. We have had very few issues with the coach and several have been operator related.

Your 04 Sig is still way ahead of most of the newer production coaches being built today. The Dynasty, Executive and Signature all had steel welded   house frames welded to the chassis and they were built form the ground up. The Newmar and the Entegra are Aluminum structures riveted to the chassis. ForeTravel is also an all steel welded house frame with a truss roof instead of a flat roof and are built from the ground up.  From 03 thru 06 the Exec and the Sig had all the best components on the market. The older Foretravels are also very well built and offer a lot of the components that your Sig has.

If Monaco was still in business today and building the Signature the way they built it back in 03-07, the price point would more than likely exceed a Million Dollars. If you are serious about replacing your Sig, you should seriously look at the Foretravel. Do a little research and you will be surprised at what you find.

[Chargerman]

Very well put. I also have toured the Newmar and Entegra factory’s and came away with the same impression as Dave. I was pretty sold to a Cornerstone as our next Coach until I walked through and closely inspected a Foretravel Realm at a small show last year close to me. What a difference!  I too will not purchase a replacement Coach unless it’s a Foretravel, Newell or built on a Prevost. 

[BennieH]

22 hours ago, georgecederholm said:

"One way to partially address the issue, short of what David described as the true fix, is to carefully build up the roof underlay to raise the level of the fiberglass roof skin relative to the air conditioner opening. The roof skin is not fully attached to the underlay level in most cases. Years ago, someone described a process of lifting the fiberglass roof layer and sliding thin shims into place to raise the roof level. I did this on our 2005 Exec while I had the front air conditioner off to fix a gasket issue. I slid a piece of luan about 2 feet wide and 4 feet long under the fiberglass at the rear side of the opening, then another piece about 2 feet by 2 feet on top of that. I didn’t want to do more at that time because I was unsure of the impact.

Adding almost 1/2 inch of thickness under the fiberglass reduced the ponding significantly, to the point where I don’t feel the need to do more. I am careful to not step in the area where the most unsupported lift is, so might “feather” out the added support in the future, if I need to have the roof unit off. If I had more time and the right tools, I probably would have feathered the edges of the luan before sliding them in place."

I did Shim the roof around out AC's about 4-5 years ago. I was in the process of replacing the gaskets when I noticed that the AC units sat in a slight depression and water was ponding around them. I cut and placed 3/8" wedge shaped wood strips (raised the areas and didn't leave an unsupported area) between the roof and supporting structure. I then used an adhesive compatible with the fiberglass roof to glue everything in place.

Once I was happy and the glue was set, new gaskets and the AC's were reinstalled. Took me an afternoon if my memory is correct.