BIRD or BiDirectional Charging Testing and Explanation of system - from 2002 Windsor to current. Includes discussion of the Dynasty and above. Morphed from a 2002 Windsor topic

[Tom Cherry]

NOTE....This is a FOLLOWUP or the "BTW" or MORPHED question towards the end of the following topic.  Todd, and THANKS TO HIM, did a lot of leg work and actually tested his BIRD system.  So, if you are NOT familiar with that thread....please scroll down to where he asked questions about the charging system...  There will be a NOTE on it referring to this post for the final answer. We felt it was NOTEWORTHY enough to actually start a new topic...

I AM receiving some offline feedback and discussions.  IF there is something in this post that needs correcting...I have ITALICIZED that text or paragraph as I promised some members that I would do...or have verified something that they thought was wrong...Two Way Street.

As a background, Todd's 2002 Windsor is different from many others.  how many and what percentage...no one knows.  Todd was able to START the engine with the Chassis Battery disconnected and got a warning on his Victron  Shunt based "Battery Monitoring Kit"...which is what Magnum also calls their system.  Had he NOT had it.....the gauges probably would have been "FUNKY".  This occurred 10 or more years ago and we did a test...with some willing Camelot owners.  TEN (or so....memory...not ONE or TWO) would NOT start with the Chassis OFF.  BUT ONE DID and the Gauges were crazy.

YES....That is NOT how one is supposed to do it.  BUT, like many of us, Todd accidentally TURNED OFF the Chassis....it happens.

OK... Once that was resolved...that, AGAIN, the same model....built within some time frame, will be different..IT happens.  Many use the term SNOWFLAKES...  LOL. 

Todd's Rig has had some "GUTTING".

The PO removed and taped off the Salesman Switch.  He had also disconnected the Lambert Maintainer.  Todd posted pictures and we discussed. Suggest you scroll the other thread if these are not "embedded in your brain"...

SO... Todd agreed to do the testing.  We have spent a week on it due to vacations and such.  I also discussed with Frank McElroy.  I also did a key word search in the PDF of the 2002 Windsor manual.  If you don't know how to do that....I'll explain at the end.  I did this morning.  There are 471 uses of the word BATTERY.  There are over 60 words that start with MAINTAIN.  I ALSO...more carefully, which is what I tell folks to do...but sometimes SKIM...shame on me....the DISCUSSION on Charging.  

BOTTOM LINE.

Todd's 2002 Windsor DID, from the Factory, have FULL BiDirectional of BIRD Charging.  See Page 9-227.  In all fairness, the later manuals used BIRD or DiDirectional terms....and THAT is what I and others that help and pull manual MIGHT look for.  BUT... It DOES Charge the HOUSE while Driving.  It DOES Charge the CHASSIS when on Generator or on AC (Shore) power.  

NOW...Todd has a great Solar system.  He uses it in Dry (no power) storage.  We discussed and when the batteries do NOT NEED charging....and all is WELL....the 100 Amp White Rogers Battery Connect or BOOST Solenoid drops out....as the BIRD (Diesel or Diesel2) module controls it.  SO, the BIRD (Diesel) Module, which is original....WORKS.

He tested the White Rodgers solenoid.  The contacts are GREAT.  There is NO voltage DROP.  OK....BUT NOW THE SURPRISE...It is SUPPOSEDLY a Continuous 12 VDC Solenoid.  YES...WR says so.  Tried googling and looked at many spec sheets, but, you can NOT find the MINIMUM Voltage.  The BIRD Module sends out a Pulsed Band Width or "regulated" signal.  OK...  That means...the voltage is 12 VDC, but the BIRD pulses it so that it is only ON for about 25% or so of the time.  The "Pulse" is sent out...say 25 to 50 times per second.  This is exactly HOW the Injectors work on your car or diesel.  They turn ON and OFF say 35 times every second.  In the ORIGINAL Bosch fuel injectors, used in almost all of the late 80's (the clones as well), that was 50. FACT as I was project Manager to BUILD a Bosch Injector.   NO IDEA, on the BIRD, without a scope, the Hertz or Cycles or Frequency....say 25 times.  That means that the solenoid could see, at 100% ON....the 12 VDC for 40 Milliseconds.  BUT, since this is a REGULATED PULSE and Todd measure the actual VOLTAGE on the coil...it shows up on a DVOM as say around 3.5 VDC.  The ORIGINAL Intellitec tech support guy said 3.0 to 4.5 VDC (read on a meter) was OK.  NOW, for any Dynasty owner....you have a SPECIAL #6 Board that replaces the BIRD Diesel 2...your pulsed or average voltage is higher....around 8 VDC on the meter.

OK....how did I use or understand all the numbers and such.... and what does it MATTER?  GLAD you asked that.  If we divide 3.5 VDC by 12.6 VDC...you get .28 or 28% ON.  NOW if the pulse Hertz is say 35.  You divide 1000 (milliseconds) by 35.  The ON or MAX time is 28.5 Milliseconds.  TO GET 3.5 VDC (on the DVOM), that means that the pulse width or ON time is  28% of 28.6 or 7.2 Milliseconds....and the frequency is 35 TIMES per second.  OK...that means that coil is "EFFECTIVELY" only seeing or has a FULL 12.6 VDC for (35 X 7.2 Milliseconds) or 252 Milliseconds or about 25% of the TIME.  SO, the 12 VDC is on for 25%....and OFF for 75%.  THUS...the voltage on a DVOM is 3.5 VDC.  I KNOW that you are worried about a POP QUIZ....There is NONE.

BOTTOM LINE.  WE DID NOT KNOW that the White Rodgers Solenoid would WORK at this lower or average (3.5VDC) voltage.  SOME Solenoids must have a full 12 VDC.  OK...NOW... for the last piece...I and YOU HOPE...  When the BIRD modules says..  OK... COIL....I'm gonna ENERGIZE YOU....it KNOWS it needs a "2 X 4" to wake up the COIL and get it going.  SO, for a few seconds (how long...read the Intellitec PDF)...say 12 - 15 seconds....it sends out a PURE or continuous 12 VDC Signal PROBABLY PULSED at 100%...but effectively like a DIRECT Non Pulsed signal..  REMEMBER THIS...IT IS IMPORTANT.  Then the Voltage is PULSED down to 3.5 VDC.  THUS, the coil runs COOLER.  Again...SOME solenoids MIGHT NOT WORK with the LOWER Voltage.

OK...WHY is this important....to THOSE of us that have the 200 AMP (most used) PURE Intellitec Solenoid....if we PUT a PURE or 100% 12 VDC and held it on for a minute or so....the coil will start to overhead.  Therefore...on the BIRD  on the Camelot's and the #6 Board on the Dynasty's....the 200 Amp solenoid is always operating at a LOWER voltage.  Now the Dynasty makes more noise and is hotter.  DUH....8 VDC vs 3.5 VDC.  You can NOT hold you hand around the Solenoid...it is THAT HOT...

OK...back to Todd and his 2002 Windsor.  For whatever reason;  Monaco had the Lambert Maintainer as as STOCK or BASE feature......and they sometimes worked or other times did not.  That is very nicely and simply explained on page 9-252.  IT WAS INTENDED for use in DRY storage.  The Lambert (Amp-L-Start or clones) all work the same way.  SOME have more sophisticated...and hopefully MORE RELIABLE... circuits.  BUT, if you had a charged or good HOUSE, the Lambert would steal (they are called THIEVES) voltage.  AND then when the House got too low....as in CANNOT crank the Genny, they would shut down...to keep from draining the House.  In THEORY...GREAT.  Practically....BASED on the comments from over 15 years....marginal.  I talked for a long time....many years ago, to the Plant Manager (maybe Mr. Lambert?) and he explained HOW they worked and the diode circuits and the logic.  BUT, they have and do fail.  Sometimes they quit charging the Chassis.  Sometimes they DRAIN the House. 

OK...Monaco included...as a STANDARD feature a Lambert.  WHY....my GUESS.  That they knew some MH's were in Covered Storage WIHOUT the ability for a Solar to work.  SOLAR was an OPTION....NOT a standard feature.  The BIRD (BiDirectional) and Maintainer WERE.  Have NO idea if the stock 60 Watt Solar, with NO LOAD....would support both...depends on the sun and other factors.

BUT...here's the BOGO from using the KEY WORD SEARCH.... INVERTER is used 146 TIMES.  I learned, and it will help others who have issues, that there IS an ON/OFF switch on the Inverter (Trace).  SO, for SOLAR only Charging, without the Lambert (or such), if you leave ON the HOUSE Switches....then BOTH Batteries will be charged.  By the ON/OFF Switch...being on the Inverter...you can TURN IT OFF...thus the only parasitic drain should be the ECM (ECU) and the Allison Brain. That assumes you don't have any extra goodies hooked up.  I do NOT know if Todd's Victron uses a smidge of parasitic current to keep it "functional".  

NOW a NOTE and a REPEAT to KILL the MYTH for the MAGNUM's.  They do NOT have a HARD SNAP or mechanical ON/OFF switch.  Many will (and have vehemently...unfortunately) stated that you can "TURN IT ALL THE WAY OFF" by pressing the REMOTE BUTTON.  WRONG (Magnum VERIFIED THAT TODAY 5/8).  The MAGNUM is always, (like a Plugged in TV) in STANDBY.  If you unplug a new smart TV...bet it goes into all sorts of gyrations and screens.  IT HAS TO.  But when you push OFF, it goes to black...but the little RED light is ON....so when you push POWER....INSTANT screen...no Startup.  The Magnum works the same way.  TWO techs said...when you push the ON/OFF remote switch...all that does is turn it "off", but it STAYS IN STANDBY.  It will STILL draw up to 3 AMPS (tested my several here)  

NOW...if you really want to TURN IT OFF....and eliminate the Parasitic drain....TWO WAYS.  Push, quickly...no NOT hold the POWER button on the Inverter.  BUT, some folks, per Magnum have difficulty and don't look at the lights.  The EASIST and MOST Reliable method...do the SOFT RESET.  THEN STOP....do NOT power it BACK ON by pushing the POWER button.  Then the draw will be a few milliamps. OK...do NOT fall into the TRAP....turning OFF the 30 Amp breaker is the same as UNPLUGGING from SHORE.  The inverter is STILL in the Standby MODE.  Plug in a phone charger....it works...  SO, if a Magnum owner wants to REMOVE the Parasitic STANDBY LOAD... Do the SOFT RESET.  BUT STOP...do NOT push the POWER BUTTON, which is the last step.  THAT is how it is done...

BOTTOM LINE....the 2002 Windsor was way MORE advanced as was commonly posted here.  It HAD BiDirectional Charging (per the manual and TESTED on a STOCK or unaltered system).  It HAD a Maintainer.  That was FOR NO POWER or SOLAR in storage...but you had to keep the HOUSE charged or periodically charged....otherwise....the Lambert powered OFF (sometimes prematurely...other times when the HOUSE has been drained) and you SHOULD be able to keep the Chassis Charged.

That's it.

YES...TOO LONG...but this is how it works....and also how the current Dynasty and above work.  IF you have a BIRD Module...then odds are...YES...BiDirectional.  NEVER fully understood that.  Richard (Dr4Film) sent me a hand drawn schematic of how his 2004 Windsor worked.  OK....it was similar to mine.

BTW... ONE MORE MYTH.  The GEN SET Terminal on the BIRD really does, on a Monaco....NOTHING.  Many, but not Todd's, came with a signal wire.... I THINK...so Memory...that some 2002 Windsor's came that way.  Richard's did have the Generator signal.  MATERS NOT....the BIRD works with and without it.  DON'T ASK for more.

WOW...if you made it this far.  If you have a PC or Laptop and use the freebie Adobe reader.  Download your manual and save it on your hard drive.  Open it FROM THE HARD DRIVE using Adobe.  In the UPPER right is a FIND box.  Type in any key word...  Battery;   Inverter;  Maintain or whatever and you get a Word Count of how many times used.  If you use the RIGHT ARROW or hit enter...it scrolls through every page with it.

NOW...that also works on SOME of our prints.  Like the OEM Monaco's.  SOME of the Scanned (from the Manual) support it...but some were saved and that option, for whatever reason...BOMBS...of course BATTERY is used.  BUT when it is, and this is a REAL blessing...on a print.  You can find a switch or a term...  Like..  SLIDE.  Every PRINT (assuming it supports the FIND) that has the word SLIDE on it will then allow you to go directly to it.  That, for me, saves a TON OF TIME.

Sorry about the length...but this is the only topic or post, that I think is out here...that discussed this issue.  MIGHT do it in a FILE....too tired now.

Happy troubleshooting and a shoutout to TODD as well as FRANK.  NOW WE KNOW...

[tmw188]

Thank you Tom, but all the work was on your end creating a spread sheet and guiding me along the way to perform the testing and getting the Data you needed which took you down a few forks in the rd. to a conclusion. 

[jacwjames]

I had several PM's with Todd while he was initially tried to figure out what happen as to the coach starting with the disconnect off.  From pictures it was obvious that the charging circuit had been changed. 

Not sure if the previous owner of his coach did the change due to the Lambert failing or he was a "Really Smart Guy" and wired in the BIRD to actually work with the isolation solenoid.  After reviewing all of this info my guess the later, he made the changes to provide a more robust charging system.  Seems like a great modification and cost ZERO $$$$

[Tom Cherry]

Jim, you make a good point.  I spent almost 2 hours with a member that understands the “Lambert” a lot more than I do.

I am working on a few notes or corrections that we discussed and he sent me some prints….will be a day or so.

My only comment to what he said and what you posted.

He says he has never seen a 2002 Windsor with the Intellitec IRD or Bird. YES, we see coaches all the time….like…never saw Monaco make this nor is there prints….

I have seen, but can’t recall how your bay looks.  We have pictures of two separate 2002 Windsors with the Intellitec IRD/BIRD 5 terminal module. Now, we do KNOW it is FACTORY.  The white molded panel say so….as it was Monaco screen printed….PN and all.  If you go back and look at the first thread, there is also another panel or block diagram….it says Charging “module or device…memory)….so we know that particular 2002 Windsor left that way.  Another person posted a similar picture.

Bottom line….it was factory installed.  Todd did the voltage testing and also tested in 4 different modes.  It works exactly like my 2009 system does….except one tiny detail.  Later on, Monaco added a control relay for the BOOST.  In the early years….the 12 VDC boost signal (momentarily held on) signal came to the BIRD via a Purple wire.  It was fed INTO the RELAY terminal.  BTW….Intellitec now calls that “Solenoid”.  Then, it was run to one side of the WR solenoid.  Thus….no boost switch ON….BWP 3.5 VDC to solenoid.  Push the boost….full 12 VDC.

NOW….there is a little factoid a few know,  Intellitec had a blocking diode inside….so no backfeed.  Maybe for a coil backfeed???  Anyway….the dropped it.  BIRDs started failing.  Monaco added an isolation relay to feed the coil from the BIRD or when pressed, the boost was 12 VDC.  Later, Intellitec PUT IT BACK IN.

Bottom line.  Frank and I discussed the results of Todd’s testing.  Yes….it is a FULL FLEDGED and documented (on the two Monaco labels or panels) and it works and is functional….Past that???   Still reviewing prints….but what Todd has, as far as the BIRD is factory and it works,

Second point…..and you may be more knowledgeable.  I THOUGHT, erroneously, that the Lambert worked when in storage….

BUT, I was told, with a robust amount of authority…..NO….the Lambert would only “steal” or maintain the chassis if there was charging voltage present on the Hiuse….  That was said to correct my “misunderstanding” of the Lambert.

THUS, we agreed…..if there was a BIRD configuration…..as IS IN Todd’s 2002 Windsor…..no NEED for the Lambert.

Monaco’s assemblers OFTEN put in unnecessary stuff, after a print revision…..no one explained it to them.

They often built experimental units or show coaches.  WHO KNOWS.  But, there were TWO 2002 Windsors with the factory plastic plates that show the BIRD….and one of them works exactly as it was designed…..and yes, if the comment on the Lambert and its need for the house to be charged, is correct….and I bow to the member’s knowledge….then the Lambert was not needed….but left in.

Later today….but probably in a few days….I’ll try to edit and clarify.

The one thing that we, the other member agreed on….  The pictures show it installed.  It works as designed.  The PO gutted the Lambert and removed the Salesman solenoid.   But the Charging Module was factory….an embossed or screen printed Monaco label and block diagram….

How many 2002 Windsor’s were that way?  Don’t know.  There was, he said, some experiments, IIRC, in 2003. DR4Film had a BIRD in his 2004 Windsor…

Let me update this.  If you want to call and help me understand, you have the number.

Thanks,,,

[jacwjames]

My set up was just like Todd's originally

Attached is the parts page showing the BIRD, Lambert, and Isolation Solenoid, same as Todd's

Also attached is the electrical schematic. 

I did replace all of that with the Bluesea as I was questioning whether it was working correctly, didn't try to figure a work around but evidently the previous owner of Todd's coach was smart enough to figure it out and make it work.

1 Electrical Panel Passenger Sider 1.pdf 1 Electrical Panel Passenger Side 2.pdf 2002_Windsor_wiring_diagrams Rear Passenger side electric.pdf

[tmw188]

FWIW I just looked a Richard’s bio to verify and surprised he hasn’t chimed in, but his previous Windsor was a 2002 not ‘04. 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, tmw188 said:

FWIW I just looked a Richard’s bio to verify and surprised he hasn’t chimed in, but his previous Windsor was a 2002 not ‘04. 

WOW….if he didn’t have the 04, like I thought….then the diagram he sent me is exactly the same as yours….except, Monaco DID use the GEN SET Terminal…

THANKS A BUNCH…

OK…was going to post this as followup.

Monaco would release prints for a Model Year.  Lets say a wiring revision that required a component and a new or different harness.  
 

IF that component and harness came in early….ODDS ARE….we have seen this, that the assembly line started using it.  So, a change for a 2002….was made as a RUNNING change and the end of MY 2001….had the new and improved 2002 features.

NEXT scenario… Prints released.  Component is late or harness….KEEP BUILDING….and the 2002 were EXACTLY LiKE the 2001’s….yes that happens….so No MATTER what the Manual or Prints say….the SHOW (Assembly Line) must go on.  

FINAL scenario…. Engineering needs a test MH to see if the NEW Component with the NEW harness works…..they go down and supervise a build….all well….it is released.  NOW, that applied to stock units,  in some cases, a special order….was custom built.  NO WHERE is the prints updated.  Monaco had a “iffy” approval for custom builds…. Dealers with high volumes could work with the factory and get a ONE OF A KIND special.

THINK THAT IS BS.  A buddy, who got me into Motor Homing was a large dealer.  Also on the “elite dealers” Committee.  He ordered custom MH’s for NASCAR drivers (that couldn’t afford a Prevost) as well as Crew Chiefs.  He speced out a HR Navigator with things that Monaco used to put in their Crown Royal Bus conversions.  This MH was way more advanced than a Signature.  It cost TWICE as much….but only half or less than a Prevost.  It had all the features….plus 4 MORE Intellitec Modules.  This was a first run 2005.  The driver was superstitious.  All the LED’s in the Motor Home Intellitec lighted switch pads were custom made by Intellitec.  The YELLISH GREEN was a PURE and Intense BLUE.  He was probably one of a few dealers with that pull.  Monaco ALSO wanted, from a marketing perspective, their UPPER ENDS in the Drivers and Crew Chief’s lots at the track,  YES….I SAW IT…didn’t know anything but remember the COST and the BLUE LED conversion…

FINALLY   Monaco would take a mid model year….do a special build.  Paint it like next year’s graphics and install the upgrades.  We have members here with a documented floor plan that is NOT in that Model year….next year….yes… but was sold, after the show….or soemtimes AT THE SHOW and is a MY older that the sales Brochure.

NEVER SAY NEVER…you look at what you have and verify factory….prints might NOT square…BUT Monaco built it.
 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

My set up was just like Todd's originally

Attached is the parts page showing the BIRD, Lambert, and Isolation Solenoid, same as Todd's

Also attached is the electrical schematic. 

I did replace all of that with the Bluesea as I was questioning whether it was working correctly, didn't try to figure a work around but evidently the previous owner of Todd's coach was smart enough to figure it out and make it work.

1 Electrical Panel Passenger Sider 1.pdf 78.74 kB · 1 download 1 Electrical Panel Passenger Side 2.pdf 98.56 kB · 0 downloads 2002_Windsor_wiring_diagrams Rear Passenger side electric.pdf 323.25 kB · 0 downloads

THANKS for those prints.  They show, and I will pass them on, that Monaco actually built it that way.  I was TOLD that there never was a BIRD isolator in a 2002 as it was NOT on "HIS" print.  BUT, that is neither here nor there and is an offline issue.

BUT, I will take exception  to you final comment.  The PO did NOT DO ANY REWIRING of the circuits on the BIRD 5 pin module. 

Todd, after he did our voltage tests....and Frank and I reviewed them.... was asked to do ONE MORE THING.  

He did a voltage test...as well as a functional test of the module.

SIMPLE.  

CHECK the pins under EACH CONDITION.

ALL power OFF...  NADA.  NO POWER.

HOUSE ON....CHASSIS OFF...  Coach Battery (or House if you prefer)....  12 VDC (a loose term....full voltage). NO Power to module on any other pin.

HOUSE and CHASSIS ON...  SAME DEAL.  Coach Battery has POWER..  IGNITION IS DEAD

HOUSE and CHASSIS ON....TURN ON IGNITION.  BINGO....Coach Battery and IGNITION now have 12 VDC.  That is exactly the way is should be wired.  That is exactly the way it shows in all the intellitec PDF.....that is exactly the way MINE is working.

AND...we knew from his first set of experiments....that the RELAY (now called on newer units...SOLENOID) was sending out a PBW 3.4/3.5 VDC signal and that the WR Solenoid was humming along and engaged and working.

SO, look at the pictures in his photos on the OTHER or STARTED THIS topic.  ALL OEM....even the zip ties are in place.

NOW...When Todd and I talked after his final voltage or pin out or "FUNCTIONAL" testing of the BIRD...I mentioned something about Mine had a RELAY.  In the ORIGINAL BIRD wiring....the Boost Switch came into the RELAY terminal....and then ran over to the Solenoid.  That PURPLE wire is in tact and is OEM.  He said, OH YEAH.  I tested that one.  When you push the BOOST, you get 12 VDC on the wire.  THUS....its wired exactly to Intellitec specs.  In his, the diode (internal on the Relay circuit) protects the board...so when you zap the WR with a FULL 12 VDC to lock that sucker IN...  That works....and the backfeed is eliminated or prevented by the diode.  Intelltiec told me about that.  And it was pulled and issues....thus the relay..  

That's it...  Please read my recent commentary.  WE NEVER SAY NEVER about a Monaco.  Todd's has the PANEL with the PN and also the description.  SO, it was "factory" that way.  BUT, from my knowledge and also Todd's testing, the module is STILL wired OEM and it works.  Don't aske me what that silly white wire does.  All I KNOW....the SYSTEM works and Todd has no issues.

BUT, we did discuss....let the BIRD or the WR fail....he is gonna gut it, like you did and put in the ML-ACR.  I did NOT realize how cheap they are now.

Thanks for all your input....

[jacwjames]

In Tom's original post about the voltage Anomaly Mark B posted pictures he had on file that show the original wiring for the BIRD.  It does show the  purple wire for the relay connected (2 of the 3 views have it connected, not sure why), the blue wire for the generator sense connected, and no wire connected to the coach battery.  I don't have pictures of mine but I had all the same wires and labeled them when I removed the BIRD.  

So the PO of Todd's coach disconnected the Lambert only using for a wire connector on the bottom stud.  He also disconnected the the Generator wire but then added the coach battery wire which came from the isolation solenoid. 

 

I know that Monaco made changes while building a model/year, many of the parts diagrams I have show several versions based on SN of the coach, they documented for the parts pages.  The wiring schematics may or may not have kept up with the changes.  The schematic that I attached does show the BIRD and you can trace the wires pretty good (zoomed in at +600%)

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

In Tom's original post about the voltage Anomaly Mark B posted pictures he had on file that show the original wiring for the BIRD.  It does show the  purple wire for the relay connected (2 of the 3 views have it connected, not sure why), the blue wire for the generator sense connected, and no wire connected to the coach battery.  I don't have pictures of mine but I had all the same wires and labeled them when I removed the BIRD.  

So the PO of Todd's coach disconnected the Lambert only using for a wire connector on the bottom stud.  He also disconnected the the Generator wire but then added the coach battery wire which came from the isolation solenoid. 

 

I know that Monaco made changes while building a model/year, many of the parts diagrams I have show several versions based on SN of the coach, they documented for the parts pages.  The wiring schematics may or may not have kept up with the changes.  The schematic that I attached does show the BIRD and you can trace the wires pretty good (zoomed in at +600%)

 

Maybe we looked at two different Pictures.  On page 1, Todd posted a lot.  Look at the BIRD here.  If you scrolled up on page 2, you saw Mark's pictures.  You're not the first to make reference to Mark's pictures and NOT Todd's.  Go back to Page 1...

I think that clears it.  To confirm or just restate.  Todd did a COMPLETE voltage test on HIS module...which has 4 of the wires connected.  it does NOT have the Gen Set wire....and THAT is something that folks will debate for years.

BUT...Todd's is exactly like MINE...save the Purple Wire and mine has the additional Control Relay...  I added it as some folks get confused... This was the ISOLATION relay that Monaco added, I think, is still or was still used...up until they KILLED the Monaco MH's

Hope this explains it...if NOT call me...

Battery BoostCutoff switches.pdf

[jacwjames]

Mark B's first post is what his looked like before he redid his and was like mine with the Blue generator wire attached, purple relay wire attached and no wire to coach battery.   That was the as the original wiring on my 2002. 

My guess is that the PO of Todd's coach made the changes to copy an new model coach .

NOT gonna lie, I know enough about circuit boards & low voltage electrical to be dangerous, so I'll leave it up to your expertise on the "why" Monaco did what they did.

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, jacwjames said:

Mark B's first post is what his looked like before he redid his and was like mine with the Blue generator wire attached, purple relay wire attached and no wire to coach battery.   That was the as the original wiring on my 2002. 

My guess is that the PO of Todd's coach made the changes to copy an new model coach .

NOT gonna lie, I know enough about circuit boards & low voltage electrical to be dangerous, so I'll leave it up to your expertise on the "why" Monaco did what they did.

We each have our guesses.  IF the PO did all the changes...then he did them using the SAME terminals as Monaco used.  MY GUESS....  The wiring on TODD's is CORRECT.  I have reached out to Richard (Dr4Film).  He sent me a schematic of his.  It was exactly like Todd's....save the GEN SET terminal was used.  And I know HIS worked...or I think it did.

SO..  Whatever.  There IS a BIRD on Todd's....looks original to me.  Don't have the print.  Todd's wiring looks OEM.  It works like it should.  THAT is a fact.

Whether or NOT the PO was adept enough to make it work....he sure was neat and his wiring skills mirror those of Monaco. His OTHER circuit mods are way low on the totem of PROFESSIONAL...

How bout we leave it here?  I WILL, once I get time, publish the info that I was provided on the Lambert.  That is for HISTORY, but some might find that interesting.  I hate to ask this...  but Todd's only SHOWS two Bosch Relays...  One is the Lambert Lockout on the RIGHT.  The OTHER is the Cold Weather Relay.  I did NOT see the relay in his that I THINK I saw on one of your prints...again...not trying to open any more cans of worms....we have enough already to catch enough croppies for a massive fish fry.

BUT...it has been a learning experience....obviously not all are interested... BUT, the first post DOES describe in detail how a BIRD SYSTEM WORKS....which is always a deep dark mystery....and they BOTH work, generally, the same.  Just different control...but the concept is the same as with the regulated (reduced) PWB voltages...

ON TO OTHER QUESTS...

Thanks...

[tmw188]

Just to slip this in incase it was missed, I know I didn’t look until now. If you zoom in on the BIRD never mind my finger, that p/n is actually the same as what is still in place. Never mind my finger.