slide out sheer pins keep shearing off

[windsorbill06]

I've got 4 electric slides.  The issue I'm having in on only 1, the front curb side slide out.   It's a lippert slide out.  Gears.  No cables.    Slide goes in and out smoothly, square and no jerking or bouncing.  There is no floor rot or damage.

 

The problem I have is when the slide reaches it's limit (either retracted or extended), the motor will keep running and torque off the sheer bolt.   This is the original motor.   

Can someone explain how the motor is to know that the slide has reached it's limit ?   I'm not aware of any limit switches.  Maybe motor senses a amp jump?  Maybe slide out circuit board in rear electrical compartment is acting up?

 

[jacwjames]

I had this in my files, it discussed the slide limiter and how to adjust.  Yours may be different but probably similar as to how to adjust the control module.

Power-Gear-Slide-Out-Manual-Operation-Guide-82-S0220-01.pdf

Edited May 13 by jacwjames

[windsorbill06]

Thank you Jim,   unfortunately I don't have that system.  Looks like the tracks are similar, but the motor and switch board is completely different.

[pulsarjab]

There is a huge difference in roll pin quality. I bought the black ones from Fastenal.

[jacwjames]

11 hours ago, windsorbill06 said:

Thank you Jim,   unfortunately I don't have that system.  Looks like the tracks are similar, but the motor and switch board is completely different.

No doubt but I suspect that there may be similarities on how to adjust the limits for amperage/force. 

On my front slide I can hold my IN/OUT button in and let the controller do it's thing.

The rear bedroom slide has a clutch mechanism, the drive gear starts to jump when you reach the limits. 

[Tom Cherry]

16 hours ago, windsorbill06 said:

I've got 4 electric slides.  The issue I'm having in on only 1, the front curb side slide out.   It's a lippert slide out.  Gears.  No cables.    Slide goes in and out smoothly, square and no jerking or bouncing.  There is no floor rot or damage.

 

The problem I have is when the slide reaches it's limit (either retracted or extended), the motor will keep running and torque off the sheer bolt.   This is the original motor.   

Can someone explain how the motor is to know that the slide has reached it's limit ?   I'm not aware of any limit switches.  Maybe motor senses a amp jump?  Maybe slide out circuit board in rear electrical compartment is acting up?

 

Without doing a LOT of searching and digging…now on my iPad.  You have a custom board for the slides….

Go to the link below…..then skim over the comments about Hydraulic….they were in error. There is a SECOND link further down.  Read BOTH carefully.

The OLD Windsor or the coveted  series DIED,  2004 (or maybe mid 2005) was the last. BUT Monaco KEPT the badge name alive. Your 2006 is the same, except for the pillow thrower’s “interior” and the paint scheme….as the Scepter and Camelot…. This has been confirmed from the prints . SO NOW….here is the rest of the story.

I worked with the lady and she disappeared. BUT all that research and talking to Lippert and others that had worked or had problems…finally made sense.

There is a “custom proprietary” control board for all the slides.  It controls the motor by reversing and such. It also, IIRC, has the circuits to limit current and controls and monitors the amperage.  Thus, if you have an issue on one slide in one direction….a BOARD issue.  These boards were not very robust. They were also prone to water damage due to location.  NOW…these are generalities.  

BUT….they are NO LONGER available and I do NOT believe that anyone works on them or repairs them.  I am also am fuzzy on who made them.  We have so many slide boards and there were companies that made them that closed.  KIP or similar may be one.

MOST of the time….creeping or “when damp”….a slide will move….that was the case here.  Other times….DEAD.  

Based on a lot of conversations with Frank and reading….the fix is this.  Lippert (memory) makes a single slide control board.  It does the same thing….reversing and current monitoring as the multislide board.  A GOOD tech, that can pin out the connectors or follow the circuit and understand the input (switches) and outputs (motor) has…maybe or should be able to remove one slide from that board.  Then install a separate controller for that slide.  From the inside….the switches are fhe same….but at the control location….there will be a separate module or controller…..  Thus….if one fails….remove and reinstall a new controller (maybe $175 - $250 for the part).  THEN….when or if a second fails…..bite the bullet if you are paying a tech and do BOTH and junk or remove the old system.

SOMEWHERE….I read….one of the replacement controllers MAY actually use the same connectors….easy…but if not….you buy the harnesses for the new controller and rewire. That’s my recollection….but, the whole tale of tears, is in BOTH of the links….

That’s my memory…so you have to verify the controller….and the prints are in the files.  Can NOT recall if there was a board for ALL 3 or if each MH, depending on how many slides had a one or two or three slide configuration….

 

 

[Indydyne]

On a semi related note, I was breaking the pin in my HWH bedroom slide that does not have a current sense limit to my knowledge. I replaced the 3/16 pin with a grade 8 10/24 by 1.75 inch bolt and nut.  All is good now. Maybe that could be an option for your lippert slide as well. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Indydyne said:

On a semi related note, I was breaking the pin in my HWH bedroom slide that does not have a current sense limit to my knowledge. I replaced the 3/16 pin with a grade 8 10/24 by 1.75 inch bolt and nut.  All is good now. Maybe that could be an option for your lippert slide as well. 

Others have done such and when the Grade 8 bolt didn’t shear…..painful and expensive.  The usual advice, plus the experience and wisdom of the group….from at least 2009 to now…and that had a LOT of owners with your system.  
 

CURIOSITY STEPPED IN….it took some doing…..but here goes….

First…find the data for the roll pins…but the test method description baffled me.  Then I found or tried or found similar data for #10mdiameter grade 2 and grade 5 and grade 8 bolt.  The graded 2 is a low carbon steel.  The grade 5 is a higher carbon steel, but hardened and then tempered or stress relieved.  Likewise the grade 8 is a higher grade….heat treated as well.

Folks that jumped to all the way to grade 8 had issues.  The numbers may be here if you search…but the advice from many owners….many of which were graduate mechanical engineers….take it carefully.  Go up one step above the OEM Pin Shear Specs…..and see, and IIRC, it did….IF that works…

OK….being, one time, the chief engineer for a fastener company…..i finally, at least to my brain and engineering background, figured it out…

A Roll Pin is tested on a Double fixture set up and a bolt or fastener is tested on a single. See the picture….

NOW..you look up the specs….

3/16 is the typical way a shear or roll pin is categorized….. while a bolt is different.  So…3/16 = 0.1875.  A #10 bolt is 0.190….DRIVE ON….virtually the same.

NOW the data… in POUNDS…

Garden Variety 3/16” pin…. 2,400….the HWH recommended

Higher grade 3/16 SS ……….3,150  or more that 30% MORE

Grade 5 #10 bolt……………….4,252…..HOLD ON….the chart says….. 2,126.  
YOU HAVE TO DOUBLE the SINGLE value….per all the research and what I read….so rarely is a BOLT tested like a shear or roll pin….

Grade 8 #10 bolt……………. 5,160   Or 2 X 2,580

Grade 2 #10 bolt……….. 2,550.  The RULE OF THUMB….an unhardened low carbon bolt has about 60% of the same size grade 5….or it would be the same as the garden variety roll pin.

So…no wonder the Grade 8 doesn’t break.  It is TWICE as strong.  But, the “folks in the field” say…it will BEND before it breaks…and when it does….it is then press fitted into place and is hard to get out….often takes disassembly and you have to remove the shaft or the entire mechanism and figure out how, in a hydraulic press, drive it out.

My recommendation would be to find the SS pin made for the hole….and try that….

NOW….we have a great number of engineers here and some with extensive backgrounds and testing experience.  One of our founders was a Mechanical Engineer - Aerospace…..the elite breed of ME’s.  He worked designing all sorts of things…..like the propulsion systems in torpedoes.  He cautioned about using a grade 8 Bolt…but NEVER added the background research. If I am wrong…..then someone with more materials knowledge and testing and such should correct me.  I was in charge of QC and did most of the exotic testing….or the ones required for special fasteners….and I learned a lot….

That’s my take on it…based on the published data and the difference in the test setup and the logic, generally accepted, that a bolt in s double set up will test TWICE as strong….

 

 

[windsorbill06]

My pins are 1/4".   I have a supply of cheap sheer pins from Amazon purchased years ago--no idea what they are rated as.    I did get a (as Tom calls it), garden variety 1/4" 20 bolts from Lowes.    I was careful to get the bolt so the threads are not being used for the sheer strength inside the square tubing. 

Had one of those bolts sheer off too.    Still doing some testing and trying to isolate when the sheering takes place.    I was told by an mobile mechanic I happen to run into in the HD parking lot, my slide motor acts like a car window motor.  When the amps jump from the window being closed, it triggers the motor to stop.  I'm starting to think this information is wrong when applied to this slide out motor.  More testing required.

 

For what it's worth, Here's my slide controller board in the rear electric compartment.   Without unplugging everything, I don't see any part number.

[96 EVO]

Is it possible that self resetting breaker is supposed to trip before the sheer pin breaks?

[Indydyne]

Tom,

My thoughts went exactly where yours did as well. I am very careful not torun the slide too long in either direction once it hits the stops.  That countermeasure only works when I am the one pushing the button. If I had many using the slide, I would have definitely stayed with the pin. 

[windsorbill06]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Is it possible that self resetting breaker is supposed to trip before the sheer pin breaks?

Funny you mention that.  I had thought about replacing it and see what happens, but usually when a breaker gets old/weak, I would think it would trip sooner rather than later.    I can't remember if this slide use to shut off power or not to the motor when it reached it's limits.   I know my rear bedroom slide (drivers side), will make a ratcheting sound when you hold the switch too long.   This forward slide operation is different.

 

Maybe start practicing what Brian B is doing and I'm the only one operating this slide.  Can't blame anybody else but me when the sheer pin goes, Right?  

[96 EVO]

Only thing is Bill, you probably shouldn't need to be that precise when you take your finger off the switch, if the system is working as designed.

[jacwjames]

I only have 2 slides, the larger connector is what I have on my controller. 

I wonder if the two smaller connectors are for the front slides.  You might try disconnecting and see which slides the affect.  If they are for the front slides you might consider swapping and see how the slide acts when you do that. 

I did a search on slide controllers available from the most common sites and never saw one that looks like yours. 

[windsorbill06]

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I only have 2 slides, the larger connector is what I have on my controller. 

I wonder if the two smaller connectors are for the front slides.  You might try disconnecting and see which slides the affect.  If they are for the front slides you might consider swapping and see how the slide acts when you do that. 

I did a search on slide controllers available from the most common sites and never saw one that looks like yours. 

You and Ben got me thinking. 

I first went back and checked all my rollers.  I have 5 of them.   I adjusted the 2 slide mounted rollers (inside kitchen cabinets) a little, but otherwise, all seemed perfect.  Slides goes in and out smoothly.    I operated it at least 10 times, but I didn't go to fully out or fully in.  Seems like that's when pin sheers off.  All seemed good.

Then I decided to look at the slide out circuit board that I posted a picture of.  It's in the rear electric compartment.  Like Tom says, probably not the best place to have electronics.   Unplugged everything from the circuit board, including the 2 fuses.  When I connected my multimeter (continuity) to the 2 blades of the 20 amp resettable, it was actually pulsing.   I've never seen or heard of  that before.   I noticed the blades were black with what I would guess was oxidation.  Didn't get a before picture but they really shinned up with a little elbow grease and contact cleaner. Tested again, and constant buzzing like it should.

Plugged everything back together.

I ran the slide full out and full in a couple times, to where the motor was lugging.   So far, so good.

Is this sheer pin issue resolved?  I don't know.   Some time and testing is in order.

  

[jacwjames]

Hopefully you got it fixed. 

Can you make out the number under the bar code, might be able to search using that.

[96 EVO]

Yep, hopefully that solves your problem Bill!

[windsorbill06]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Yep, hopefully that solves your problem Bill!

thanks Ben, Me too!

 

2 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Hopefully you got it fixed. 

Can you make out the number under the bar code, might be able to search using that.

the number on the bar code is 10667D  (appears the board was made by IDS, Inc).

This one is extinct.   I did find a 10667C.  It looks the same from pictures, but unsure if it will work.

https://rvcomponents.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/md/M6819/s1.pl?

 

I also came across a wiring diagram for the board.  I'm not sure how to put it in the files sections.

Monaco HR 16619456 quad slide.dwg.pdf

Edited May 15 by windsorbill06

[jacwjames]

I found an older thread on IRV2 discussion this board, might be helpful, on post shows the purpose of the relays.  https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/slideout-control-module-board-581494.html

The drawing doesn't show any type of adjustments, just relays, fuse, and circuit breaker. 

 

[Tom Cherry]

WOW….this is great.  My only comment.  Many of us former Boy Scouts carry way too many spares.  I have a spare fuse for every Bussman Ignition (up to 200 A) fuses EDIT...I found a picture and added it...END of EDIT on mine as well as the 300A Inverter fuse.

Might I suggest, being a non frugal spender and getting a few spare resetting CB. These puppies get as old and cantankerous as I am…

WHILST discussing spares.  Throw 4 or 6 of the Dual Inline Phone cable connectors that are inside the Plenum on the Dometic systems.  They get dirty, moist, worn(from the vibration) in your Amazon cart.  Much easier to pop in a spare than go through the hassle of trying to clean the contacts…and the contacts do abrade and wear….it only takes a few thousands of wear to break or make the connection intermittent.

Now, back to our regular programming….