jimclark44 Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Cruise Control still not working. New VIP module, new clock spring. Alliance Coach computer showed I needed a brake sensor. I replaced the only one I could find, no luck. My mobile chassis tech put his computer on and it showed the brake sensor. He jumped the brake sensor but nothing. How many brake sensors are they? Any suggestions as to where the problem could be? Any suggestion for a trusted shop in the Tampa Bay area that could work on it. Thanks in advance for any help. Jim Clark 2006 Monaco Executive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powersltc Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Ron P. 2004 Monaco Executive How much can I expect to pay to have my clock spring replaced? Horn and wipers not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Jim, Are your stop lights working ok ? I recall a thread from long ago where someone found a problem with their stop lights . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Is your Jake brake turned on? There is a setting in the engine ECM that has the option to disable cruise control if the Jake brake switch is turned on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimclark44 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ray Davis said: Jim, Are your stop lights working ok ? I recall a thread from long ago where someone found a problem with their stop lights . Ray, I remember that post and mine are working fine! 1 minute ago, Frank McElroy said: Is your Jake brake turned on? There is a setting in the engine ECM that has the option to disable cruise control if the Jake brake switch is turned on. I have tried that with no luck. It seems that the cruise believes the brake is on!! 22 minutes ago, powersltc said: Ron P. 2004 Monaco Executive How much can I expect to pay to have my clock spring replaced? Horn and wipers not working. Ron, I will pull the work order from Alliance and let you know. My extended warraty took care of most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 OK, from the sound of it, he is reading the ECM data and its telling him that the brakes are on, Just want to be sure it's not saying engine brake vs service brake is on. If I'm not mistaken, there might be two switches on the brake pedal, One for lights and one for service brake that feeds the engine ECM. If the service brake wire from the ECM to the switch up front is shorted to ground anywhere it will tell the engine ECM that the service brakes are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Frank, you are correct. There are two switches on the firewall. one switched is normally open and the other switch is normally closed. The normally open switch is the brake light switch and the normally closed switch is for the cruise control. when the brake pedal is pressed the normally open switch closes and turns on the brake lights. The normally closed switch opens turning off the cruise control. There are other switches also in play; the park brake switch also controls the cruise control and when the park brake is released should be closed for the CC to engage. There is also a switch in the leveling system that must be closed and the coach must be at ride height and in travel mode for the cruise control to engage. Make sure the fuse to for the cruise control is not blown. It is located in the FRB on PCB 3, third fuse down from the top. To test whether it is the cruise control itself that has failed, start the engine, turn the cruise control on and push the resume button on the smart wheel. If the engine idles up as it is supposed to then the cruise control itself is functioning properly and the issue will either be in the wiring or a faulty switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimclark44 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 21 minutes ago, David Pratt said: Frank, you are correct. There are two switches on the firewall. one switched is normally open and the other switch is normally closed. The normally open switch is the brake light switch and the normally closed switch is for the cruise control. when the brake pedal is pressed the normally open switch closes and turns on the brake lights. The normally closed switch opens turning off the cruise control. There are other switches also in play; the park brake switch also controls the cruise control and when the park brake is released should be closed for the CC to engage. There is also a switch in the leveling system that must be closed and the coach must be at ride height and in travel mode for the cruise control to engage. Make sure the fuse to for the cruise control is not blown. It is located in the FRB on PCB 3, third fuse down from the top. To test whether it is the cruise control itself that has failed, start the engine, turn the cruise control on and push the resume button on the smart wheel. If the engine idles up as it is supposed to then the cruise control itself is functioning properly and the issue will either be in the wiring or a faulty switch. 2 hours ago, jimclark44 said: Cruise Control still not working. New VIP module, new clock spring. Alliance Coach computer showed I needed a brake sensor. I replaced the only one I could find, no luck. My mobile chassis tech put his computer on and it showed the brake sensor. He jumped the brake sensor but nothing. How many brake sensors are they? Any suggestions as to where the problem could be? Any suggestion for a trusted shop in the Tampa Bay area that could work on it. Thanks in advance for any help. Jim Clark 2006 Monaco Executive 22 minutes ago, David Pratt said: Frank, you are correct. There are two switches on the firewall. one switched is normally open and the other switch is normally closed. The normally open switch is the brake light switch and the normally closed switch is for the cruise control. when the brake pedal is pressed the normally open switch closes and turns on the brake lights. The normally closed switch opens turning off the cruise control. There are other switches also in play; the park brake switch also controls the cruise control and when the park brake is released should be closed for the CC to engage. There is also a switch in the leveling system that must be closed and the coach must be at ride height and in travel mode for the cruise control to engage. Make sure the fuse to for the cruise control is not blown. It is located in the FRB on PCB 3, third fuse down from the top. To test whether it is the cruise control itself that has failed, start the engine, turn the cruise control on and push the resume button on the smart wheel. If the engine idles up as it is supposed to then the cruise control itself is functioning properly and the issue will either be in the wiring or a faulty switch. 22 minutes ago, David Pratt said: Frank, you are correct. There are two switches on the firewall. one switched is normally open and the other switch is normally closed. The normally open switch is the brake light switch and the normally closed switch is for the cruise control. when the brake pedal is pressed the normally open switch closes and turns on the brake lights. The normally closed switch opens turning off the cruise control. There are other switches also in play; the park brake switch also controls the cruise control and when the park brake is released should be closed for the CC to engage. There is also a switch in the leveling system that must be closed and the coach must be at ride height and in travel mode for the cruise control to engage. Make sure the fuse to for the cruise control is not blown. It is located in the FRB on PCB 3, third fuse down from the top. To test whether it is the cruise control itself that has failed, start the engine, turn the cruise control on and push the resume button on the smart wheel. If the engine idles up as it is supposed to then the cruise control itself is functioning properly and the issue will either be in the wiring or a faulty switch. Thanks David, Are those switches shown on the wiring diagrams? Nothing works from the wheel. All other buttons work on the wheel with the exception of the Cruise. Push the cruise and the light on the dash comes on but nothing else related to the cruise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 When you start the engine an engage the cruise control and then hit resume button does the engine idle up? The only switch that shows up in the wiring diagram is the brake light switch. Both switches are side by side on the firewall in front of the brake pedal. The switch on the park brake is located on the park brake in the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimclark44 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Share Posted July 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, David Pratt said: When you start the engine an engage the cruise control and then hit resume button does the engine idle up? The only switch that shows up in the wiring diagram is the brake light switch. Both switches are side by side on the firewall in front of the brake pedal. The switch on the park brake is located on the park brake in the console. The engine does not idle up. The only sensor/switch I haven't checked is the one on the park brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 At this point, your mechanic will need to look at what the ECM is "seeing" using the Cummins Insite software or other software that can read engine input parameters. If it is showing that the service brakes are applied I would first troubleshoot the service brake switch that sends the signal to the ECM. Dave told you the location of this switch. If the ECM thinks the brakes are applied, then cruise control won't work and the cruise control buttons won't allow for fast idle either. I will assume that the ECM is showing that the Jake brake is reading OFF even though the dash switch is set to off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 The following is the sequences that must happen for the engine to idle up with the cruise control. 1 . Start engine 2. Check to make sure that the park brake is set and the transmission is in neutral. 3. Turn the Cruise Control ON and push the resume button. The engine should idle up to about 1000RPM. If the above procedure fails then your ECM is not seeing that the Park Brake is engaged or the transmission is in neutral.. The only Brake Switches involved are the Park Brake Switch, Brake pedal brake light switch (NO)and the Brake pedal cruise control disconnect switch(NC) . The engine up idle test does not involve any of the other switches that make up the cruise control system. The cruise control is part of the ECM and will not allow the engine to idle up if the Park brake is not set or the Transmission is not in neutral. The coach does not have to be in travel mode either You said that the Cruise control light was coming on at the dash when you turned on the CC, then that is telling you the cruise control is working. The CC will not engage unless all the circuits are completed. You technician said that the diagnosis said the ECM was not seeing the brake sensor, what brake sensor did he check, More than likely the ECM is saying it does not see the brake circuit closed and if that is the case the ECM will not let the CC engage. Another sequence that has to happen while moving for the CC to engage is Brake light switch open, CC disconnect switch closed and park brake off, coach is in travel mode and depending on the configuration of your engine brake should be off. I would suggest you take a look at the park brake switch as that may be the culprit if the engine will not idle up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypoxia Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Does the coach have VORAD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 The VORAD system is an Accessory to the Cruise Control and has its own ECM and interfaces with the cruise control to perform its functions. If the VORAD were to fail it will not stop the cruise control from operating, you just lose the VORAD functions. The CC will still operate as a normal CC holding and maintaining the selected speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypoxia Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, David Pratt said: The VORAD system is an Accessory to the Cruise Control and has its own ECM and interfaces with the cruise control to perform its functions. If the VORAD were to fail it will not stop the cruise control from operating, you just lose the VORAD functions. The CC will still operate as a normal CC holding and maintaining the selected speed. Cruise Control does not work as normal when the VORAD fails on my 2007. The procedure is to simultaneously depress the Cruise On and Set buttons on the smart wheel and have the cruise control function without smart cruise. This may take more than one try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Yes, you are correct depending on Coach, Engine, Year and Model, but Once and if you have do the reset the Cruise Control works, it just doesn't have the VORAD functions. That is why Owners Manuals are a great thing if they ever get read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypoxia Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 12 hours ago, David Pratt said: Yes, you are correct depending on Coach, Engine, Year and Model, but Once and if you have do the reset the Cruise Control works, it just doesn't have the VORAD functions. That is why Owners Manuals are a great thing if they ever get read. Dave, I don't want to hijack this post. I read the owner manual again and did not see any reference to the cruise control when the VORAD is inop. I simply asked if his Executive has Vorad since it does have an effect on the cruise control. I saw the post stating the problem with the brake switch, however, if it turns out that it is not that there is another direction to look. I had that problem and wanted to give that insight. In my case, in the end, I think cleaning up the front run panel boards cured my problems and do not expect jimclark44 to have the same result. If you can send me the part of the owners manual that references the procedure to make the cruise control work when the VORAD fails I would appreciate it. I cannot find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimclark44 Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 On 7/22/2020 at 10:38 AM, powersltc said: Ron P. 2004 Monaco Executive How much can I expect to pay to have my clock spring replaced? Horn and wipers not working. I, (Warranty Insurance) paid $942.00 at Alliance Coach. On 7/22/2020 at 2:35 PM, Frank McElroy said: At this point, your mechanic will need to look at what the ECM is "seeing" using the Cummins Insite software or other software that can read engine input parameters. If it is showing that the service brakes are applied I would first troubleshoot the service brake switch that sends the signal to the ECM. Dave told you the location of this switch. If the ECM thinks the brakes are applied, then cruise control won't work and the cruise control buttons won't allow for fast idle either. I will assume that the ECM is showing that the Jake brake is reading OFF even though the dash switch is set to off. All I know is what the two techs. that plugged in to the coach told me. "Bad brake sensor" If I knew then what I know now I would have ask many more questions. On 7/23/2020 at 6:47 AM, Hypoxia said: Does the coach have VORAD? No Vorad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powersltc Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 On 7/22/2020 at 10:38 AM, powersltc said: Ron P. 2004 Monaco Executive How much can I expect to pay to have my clock spring replaced? Horn and wipers not working. Stop lights work. Thanks. I have a policy with Good Sam extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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