OK….OMG…a Detailed EXPLANATION of Monaco’s fetish for Ground or Negative switching.

@Frank McElroy would be the one to teach such a seminar. SERIOUSLY.

I have tried to help folks over the years diagnose and trouble shoot the Missing Brake Lights.  It varies from Rig to RIG and also from “wiring diagram style”…

CLEAR?

I don’t do well on the Dynasty “Pin and Harness” system. BUT even on the mid to late lower ends….with a more typical line and connection format….these BRAKES are tough.

I will also say the MONACO FAILED….when they developed the “Trailer” brake harness…..that Simple 5 wire bundle…they did NOT EVEN get it right.  US Gear (Tow Brake) had to sit down with them and explain why they picked the WRONG contacts and botched it. US Gear published the correct circuit…because now they actually could follow the wires…and understood how Negative switching worke.

BOTTOM LINE. You can NEVER assume that a relay coil is always POSITIVE switched. Personnally, and I have spent DAYS (Weeks?) printing and marking and trading the path…as well as the Polarity of coil wires.  IF Monaco had a “overlay” or a symbol that said…”This is a Ground Switched Relay….”  But, I also recall, that they even topped themselves….had a relay that had to have TWO conditions.  The ground could be SWITCHED…and thr POSITIVE could be SWITCHED…so you have to follow the circuit on BOTH sides of the coil.  Not quite Spock Three Dimensional chess…but getting close…of course a 1040 form comes to mind.

Myron has great insight.  You work which side (front to back) or (back to front) that makes the most sense to you.  Always LOOK…does the Negative (usually pin86) go to a common point or have the GROUND symbol…

THEN, on some circuits…there is a FEEDBACK from the ECM.

I wish I had a clearcut outline and could pass it on,,,

Text from Todd.  Pretty straight forward.  The Demco was NOT designed for a DP that has the brake lights activated from the PAC.  Monaco does not have, on the pre 2005 models, the required Positive 12VDC brake light SWITCH signal…

Got your message I’ll have to look at that later. My test drive with passenger and tow today confirmed all three brake lights does come on when the PacBrake is engaged and it did engage the towed brakes slightly. Slightly is too much, it’s confirmed and that’s why Etrailer guy asked me about the brake lights coming on with the PB. I’m busy this evening and can’t talk today.

I responded back to Todd and will discuss and explain any concerns or issues…. INTERESTING…we have NOT been down this path before on TOAD brakes.  Trailer Brakes YES.  Todd needs the same fix that Richard installed….

STOP!  You need to read my post.  The System was NOT designed to work with a Monaco “NEGATIVE” switch. The solution is simple. Follow Richard’s solution.  Add in a relay that is ONLY activated by the service brake pedal. Then you have the POSITIVE 12 VDC signal required for your controller.  Page 21 is very clear. THEN, your existing system will work as Designed and be effective…assuming you do the sensitivity adjustments.

That sums it up and also answers some of the unknowns..l.

19 minutes ago, Craggar said:

Because I said I would post a picture of the old one here it is. Nothing that I could read on the backside and I'm not even sure they were originals. So still no idea what the original amp ratings were but I picked up another Moroso switch and replaced these with them.

Some of the Cole - Hersee switches had, memory, a really robust and complex fabricated mounting bracket.  If the Moroso works and is 300 Amps or do and is 12 VDC  (can be higher), then you are good to go.  

300 is fine….some later models, in the upper ends, might have been 350.

Thanks for the picture…if you get a moment, the bracket and your new switch would be of interest to pre 2000 owners 

NOTE. This switch did not have the small, low amps additional contacts.  It is SPST.  The switches with the 4 contacts were DPST.

Do the UNTHINKABLE...call Trojan.  What I posted is what they told me.  You can ask them about Ben's comment or such.  They will agree, disagree or debunk.

I have NEVER heard that...but I focus on Trojan.  

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-804-how-to-prolong-lead-acid-batteries They say 20 - 50....but the tech told me not to do that...as long as the DVOM and the Specific Gravity (using a NUMERICAL and calibrated one...like the one I use and posted....

Read this.  Have it in a browser or PDF or print it out.  Call Trojan and ASK THEM.  WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW...

2 hours ago, MurrayD said:

The NEC has stipulated in the code that refrigerators are not permitted to be on GFCI. I’m not sure of the reasoning, but I know ice makers can cause nuisance tripping, which is why your Norcold had a non GFCI receptacle for the ice maker. Nuisance tripping for a compressor will cause damage to it, not to mention food spoiling if you don’t notice the GFCI has been tripped.

One of our members is a code fanatic. He posted a year or so back that the NEW "NEC" required GFCI. I saw the post...could not get the hard copy.

I TOTALLY agree with you. From a practical standpoint and being friends for 30 odd years with a licensed plumbing and electrical contractor...his GFCI tales totally say what I have been preaching. 

I recommend, and 90% of the Monaco's are wired this way, removing the Icemaker line from the LOAD side of the GFCI. The load usually has TWO lines.  One for the CODE REQUIRED GFCI and the other for the REST of the stuff.  TV and HEC and Icemaker and such. That is a recipe for disaster...you put in a NEW (they get old) GFCI. Determine that ALL the CODE required outlets are protected...and then move the ICEMAKER to line.

There is NO discussion, so I assume it was well known that the Samsung RF18 does NOT like backdoor temps below freezing. ALl the insulation on the side walls has to be removed for air circulation...then insulate the bottom rear cover (your VENT and if louvers in the frame...THEM. Same for the top side vent or if a rooftop vent...stuff with Fiberglass batt insulation.

Then the air circulating around the RF18 is CONDITIONED from the inside. You no LONGER have the CO2 issue...so no need for the Norcold insulation.

Great job...

Late coming to the party.  BUT, here goes.  YES...the crack is a bit "wide". The issue is this.  IF the crack is the result of movement due to shifting braces or whatever crappy constraints, then I'd look at trying to tie it down...NOT bolt in place...but keep it from slopping around and such.  Obviously SOMETHING stressed the elbow and it broke.

OK...  I am a Fiberglass and also JB Weld guy. I have fixed pressure cracks in buried irrigation lines where the pump is putting out 65 PSI. This is a ZERO PRESSURE gravity drain. 

The Silicone Tape might work. I would CLEAN the entire thing....using a strip of emory cloth...You need to abrade the area where the crack is regardless of a mechanical or a "epoxy/glue" fix. This is gonna be a TWO step fix...and my 65 PSI joint was cracked and "opened up.

J-B Weld 2110 Metal Fuel Tank Repair Kit, Gray

Buy that on Amazon. I nicked a hole in a John Deere tank...brand new mower.  I put on a half dollar patch.  that was in 2006 and I sold it last year and the tank never leaked.  THE GREAT THING...you can press or push.  I'd use something like a dental plaque removal pick (Amazon...cheap). THEN fill in the crack and smooth it over.  Don't need a big bulge.  Let it cure. 

The top coat can be plain old RESIN and Fiberglass cloth.  Cut your strips maybe 3/4 diameter.  Then lay them on...overlap.  Being handy means you can improvise...and there is NO SET WAY.  I actually used JB Weld (2 part) on my irrigation and it was 90%.  Little weeping (yours is GRAVITY...mine is 65 PSI). Then I used Fiberglass closth impregnated with the more viscous JB Weld Plastic...and BINGO.  NO ISSUES.

The silicone tape or whatever it's calls depends on two things.  FRICTION and PRESSURE or tension. YOU keep wrapping until you are pulling and stretching the tape and it starts to contract or mold the crack or such.  THEN, you lay down more...sort of like adding a pressure bandage.

Don't know HOW much room you have up there.  But repairing with JB Weld or FB/Resin will crosslink like you ain't never seen.  Just as good as the glue that melted the PVC and bonded it originally...

Good Luck.

Mine was similar.  I have a side window on the driver's side.  The frame comes together (on the outside) as a point...or the front member of the frame is vertical or STRAIGHT UP.  The Lower frame member is at a slight angle. If you stood outside and looked at the Driver's window...the front of the frame is lower that the back...maybe 3 or 4 inches. I heard the noise.  I finally started putting painter's tape in a few spots.  I found that the Driver's side window pain had a tiny hole or void in the mitered joint...and air, at highway speeds, was coming in and whistling.

That's it.  Try taping off various joints or corners or edges.  ODDS ARE...a Seal or caulking void....very small, which makes it higher pitched and more intense.

The fix... a small glob or RTV Sealer....maybe 1/16" Diameter. It does NOT take much of a hole for it to whiste.

May not be your issue...but others have had this same experience.

On 5/18/2024 at 11:41 AM, Benjamin said:

Sure, I was thinking the "switch" turned off the ATC like it did on earlier ATC systems, when this is a newer system that has an "off road mode" that is activated by the momentary switch (as far as I can tell from the bendix info).  Similar to the newer SUV traction control systems with different off road modes.  The disagreement comes from labeling this a "boost" when it is closer to turning the system OFF, than turning it "UP".  The off road mode allows MORE wheel slip, it does not "lock the wheels up". That's why it's on a momentary switch, so you can't leave it on, then pull out of an uphill gravel driveway, and spin the tires then snap something when the spinning tire grabs pavement.  If you're trying to get through a long soft muddy driveway, then there's less danger of "grabbing pavement" but you'd still want to release the button before hitting pavement.  That's why it's good to understand what the system is doing.  There is no additional traction in the sense of tire grip, only more power and more spin, and therefore more risk of damage, or digging deeper faster, but also the possibility of pulling out of soft conditions that standard mode ATC won't allow enough power for. 

This relates to the broken axle, because that's how most axles are broken.  I'm still curious which brake was locked up and which wheel dug in.  Not sure how ATC could have been used in that situation. 

IT COULDN’T.  A locked rear drum brake defeats or totally neutralizes the ABS/ATC.  You drive forward….backward…and keep trying to pop the rusted shoe from the drum.  Otherwise….jack it up and tear into it and free it up.

The ABS/ATC was NEVER meant to fix a mechanical issue, like rusted and frozen brakes.

Now…. This is semantics. In the NORMAL drive Mode….the ABS/ATC has limited capability to “act like a limited slip or Posi-Axle”.  That is stated.

When you switch it from AUTO (Normal Driving) to ON…which is used where additional traction is needed to extricate the MH, the Axle has an ENHANCED or INCREASED amount of torque as well as faster or more controlled response to transfer torque to the wheel with traction, rather that let the free spinning just keep turning.

It ain’t no afterburner or a winch or tow truck,  it is a MANUALLLY HELD ON MODE ….and it works within the constraints of the Open Differential.  The ABS/ATC is NOT TURNED OFF…it is in the GET ME OUT OF HERE….  

That’s it….  Lets move on….this debate is not really of interest to many.

This and another thread have explained how it works and given the technical as well as “mechanical engineering” explanation.

Thanks for understanding….

30 minutes ago, rbeachy206 said:

Thank you. Hydrometer is on its way, and I already received the battery caps. Picking up the batteries on the 25th. Here's hoping for 8 years out of this set.

You are now one of my prized pupils…and you will gst unbelievably high life…

1 hour ago, tmw188 said:

Car brake lights work like they should.  The Duo worked great with the gasser mh and has a sensitivity adjustment on the pedal cylinder controller. I’ll hopefully get some test performed today. Yes that is why Etrailer asked about the exhaust brake and whether my brake lights came on when the PacBrake was activated. I’ve been towing for almost three yrs with it but with the larger mh it’s hard to feel the towed brakes come on, you have to look in the rear camera to verify by looking at the LED’s lighting up on the rear view mirror, which was working but now has stop displaying. The safety break away does work nicely but too not displaying the LED’s. I’ll look for a fuse after looking for a signal. Unfortunately I’ll probably need to change it out. Also I would recommend everyone checking their break away regularly or pre departure, it’s easy just pull it out. I had to replace mine 3yrs ago after checking it. Weather snow and salt will get to them over time.

OK….I THINK that I see the issue.  The Demco worked on the Gasser…because it had a plain Jane simple BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH.

You CANNOT….I repeat PROPERLY install the Demco on a MONACO Motor home until you do the following.  IT JUST HIT ME & I pulled the DEMCO PRINT.

HERE I# THE ONLY WAY….using your factory configuration.  IF the Cyclops or middle brake or Liddy light ONLY COMES ON!!,  REPEAT….ONLY if activated from the SERVICE BRAKE PEDAL….that is a signal you can use.  It is the RED Brake Light Switch that Demco requires on page 21 of the manual….the wiring diagram.

IF your tail lights would only come on….from pushing the service brake … then it is still a potentially dangerous situation.  The Flashers will INTERRUPT the Brake LIGHT signal….thus….going down hilll…hit the service brake…all work, turn or or use your FLASHERS (Turn signal or EMERGENCY)…NOPE….the signal will flash and probably drive the Demco nuts.

Richard did this.  You locate the NEGATIVE SWITCHED Signal or the GROUND that is “made” when the brake pedal is pushed.  You connect that ground to terminal 86 of a Bosch relay.  Terminal 85 is connected to a IGNITION ON, fused (5 is way more than enough.  Then, you run a jumper from 85 to 30.  Then the wire from 87 goes to wiring for the Demco.  Look on page 21.  NOTE the RED WIRE goes to a brake switch.  @tmw188  Todd, you ain’t got a BRAKE LIGHT SWICH like this.

Then wire 85 is the RED to the unit.

NOW IF you had a 2005….or since Monaco GOOFED…a working 2006, it would have your wire.  Richard put in this relay and used it to hook up a trailer brake controller…..that’s the workaround or fix.

BOTTOM LINE….this answers it.  You HAVE to have a conventional 12 VDC Brake (service pedal) POSITIVE signal.  Monaco uses NEGATIVE.  You CAN use the NEGATIVE….locate the signal….install a relay as above….NOW, you have the equivalent of a POSITIVE SERVICE BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH….

End of debate and doscussuon…  TEST…then connect (BTW…I’d still use a relay for the positive….put the brake light brake bulb wire on terminal 85 and ground 82…rest is same…

Many good comments and informative.  My $00.02…relays are notorious offenders.  The 5 pin Bosch can we swapped with one from the house or the chassis.  Never depend on a DVOM.  Yes….coil resistance can be checked.  Yes, contracts.

I’d swap or find the spare 5 pin.  

The 4 pin….??  Don’t have one….focus on it.  Look at the print.  Is the coil getting voltage?  GOOD.  NOW, pull the two contact wires off..push on brake.  Jumper the (30 & 87???) wires.  Works?  Bad relay.

no joy….i’d start with the fuse and work my way through.  When you press the brake, you need to follow the prints.  Remember, Monaco LOVED NEGATIVE SWITCHING on the brake circuit.  See which ones are open.  Then jumper close.

right now it is a crap shoot to start throwing parts at it. Test, troubleshoot and verify…

12 hours ago, tmw188 said:

Thanks for catching that Richard it should have read when the PAC Brake is on. I had two different questions I’m trying to get answers to, but really didn’t want them blended together. 
1) When the PacBrake is engaged, does the brake lights come on, I was told some do, some don’t and maybe. So I’m going to call it answered. 
The other question I needed an answer to was specific to my current braking system and was not intended to be answered on this thread, but inquiring minds want to know now. I have a Demco Stay N Play Duo sister to the Air Force One. My previous mh was a gasser and that’s what it was designed for but not designed for air brake systems especially coaches with exhaust brakes or Jake brakes because it works with a decelerometer which could be activated by an exhaust brake and burn up the brakes while decending a grade. I’ll  have my passenger confirm that. I was told originally by Etrailer that it would work on the air brake coach when I bought the Windsor some 3yrs ago.  I called Etrailer today with a trouble shooting question on something else since they installed it some 5 yrs ago. During the conversation the topic of the exhaust brake came up and that’s where we are now. I’ll know more hopefully tomorrow. I’ll probably need to switch the braking system. So that’s it. 

 

Don’t know about the Demco.  Brake Buddy made a similar unit.  Deceleration activated.

That little pendulum works off of being “rapidly” moved….or so Brake Buddy told me.  So, it wants to see “rapid” deceleration….so, your stomp on the service brakes and then hit the Pac.  Then the pendulum swings way out.  You get braking.  But, then it “zeros” itself….and the incline of the highway is now “ambient” or standard.

If it weren’t designed this way, then going down a hill and the pendulum hanging straight down and the decelerator being crooked would trigger it.

It has to be an “EVENT”, which activates the little rascal….then it says….OK….moving along at a steady rate.  Hit the brakes again…bingo.

Call and ask.  Etrailer MIGHT not be the most reliable tech support. I’ve read some of their comments and don’t agree

Demco has had this queation a million times….ask them.  They say NOPE for an exhaust brake DP….then ebay it and select a new system….

8 minutes ago, rbeachy206 said:

I'm getting ready to install a bank of 4 new Trojan T-105's. I selected these after reviewing many threads here and researching the pros and cons of LiFeCO4. I also learned from Tom Cherry (thanks Tom) about exercising these batteries on a regular basis, which I've never done or heard of. My question is, would you do this right away or wait 6 months, or does it matter? We're connected to AC power (shore or gen) 98% of the time.

Thanks

My take….and I asked Trojan that.  Depends.  If they sat around in inventory for month? YES. If one plans on using them and discharging to say the “50 odd %” level? NOPE.

I ran my last new set down…..then recharged.  The voltage and hydrometer said 100%…..quit and drove on.

Sugguest you get a good hydrometer.  I compared the old fashioned to a refraction one.  Little difference…and each has points.  The refractive will check coolant….it was more tedious to me to get the screen wetted down.

The gravity hydrometer needs to be level, needs to be “checked”….but I prefer it.

This one is my choice.  Getting the liquid to the top fill line and level is easy.  It also has a calibration check.  Flush it our with distilled water….then fill.  There is a ZERO or 1.00 or “water” mark so you can rest assured your using it right.

Battery Miser Caps are a must….

Good Luck…

Simple…as Richard says….Monaco was not naturally consistent.  Get a helper to follow you, preferably on a small grade, and experiment.  Cell phones on speaker.

The BRAKE LIGHTS are only supposed to come on when the service brake is depressed.  NOW….also look for how the CYCLOPS or middle brake (the DOT engineers nicknamed it the LIDDY LIGHT…she added it to the FMVSS regs by Executive Order….absolutely NO studies or testing…..she just thought it would save lives and accidents….Liddy Dole was Transportation Secretary…. She was the wife of Senator Bob Dole, so she had connections….

OK…then apply the PAC Brake.  I have NO IDEA how it will work.

BUT…as Richard states….the BRAKE LIGHTS on the Monaco use the service brake pedal.  That same signal MUST BE USED for any trailer or any TOAD BRAKING SYSTEM that turns on the Toad’s rear lights. THERE is NO (OK…NEVER SAY NEVER) any hookup for the Cyclops.

Does your manual address this…

OK….an hour later.  IT DEPENDS!  And we may have some real experts or wiring diagram fanatics (YES…I know one).

PER a lot of blogs and also my knowledge of FMVSS….here goes…

THERE AIN’T NO FMVSS standard.  Pick a manufacturer….their design engineers decided the logic.  Freightliner did or had a TSB for reprogramming the system and that impacted the ECM….and it was NOT a pretty solution.

BASICALLY….here is the main thing….and IT IS A MUST….if you use a trailer or a Toad Braking system or WIRE up a TOAD. TEST YOUR 7 or 6 pin…the LOGIC….and really simple.

A trailer has, usually, electric brakes.  In 2005….Monaco prewired every MODEL with a harness to properly utilize a Trailer Brake Controller or a Toad SUPPLEMENTAL (controlled from the MH Service Brake). There is a unterminated wire from front to rear that is supposed to carry the Trailer control voltage….

That system comes from a NEGATIVE GROUND SWITCHED signal…so when you pop the brakes (pedal) a NEGATIVE ground wire activates the brake lights.  That signal must be “repolarizied” or converted to POSITIVE.  WHY….99.99999% of the pickups and cars that have a trailer brake controller depends on a POSITIVE 12 VDC signal or the BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH. 

Richard, I know, was one of the successful “fixers” prior to the factory solutuon, 

OK…when you hit your brakes…the rear tail lights come on.  Your 7/6 receptacle has 4 critical wires.

GROUND

PARK (Marker or Clearance)

LEFT STOP/Turn

RIGHT STOP/Turn.

There ain’t NO LIDDY light.

SO, your turn signals work and the STOP or Brake works… NOW. That is simple but read on.

Those FOUR wires are what you use for a Trailer or in the umbilical (BTW….if you want to keep your modern Car electronics happy….you have three DIODES. One for Park, Left and Right.  Otherwise….have a credit card on file with local dealer where you bought it and have it serviced).

NOW….if the PAC/EXHAUST/JAKE engine brake signals the TAIL LIGHTS and or maybe the LIDDY….then that is EXACTLY how Monaco wired your MH.  There are also sorts (42 pages and 200 comments) about one Monaco working one way…in the same MODEL year…or say a Diplomat one way and an Executive the other….then, NEXT YEAR….both were the same or reversed….

SO….run your test.  Service Brake MUST turn on the Taillights.  ODDS ARE…Cyclops comes on…. Now take your foot off….on. Grade, use the PAC or equivalent.  If Taillights come on…thats OK….or if only the Liddy or BOTH…then, that is HOW your rig works…

Then start playing around.  Use pedal…then PAC…and let off on pedal?  What happened or changed….write it down.

There are SOME MH (Monaco?.?  Who knows)…that use a speed sensitive signal from the ECM and below a certain speed the PAC might NOT trigger.

ONE topic kept arguing that when manually downshifted the Allison….the whole shebang lit up like a Christmas tree.

OTHERS can run a similar test and POST….specifying the year, model and results. SOME have tried to customize to suit their logic.

As long as your tail lights come on with service brake…presumably also illuminating the Cyclops and the flashers and turn signal and parking work….you meet the generic FMVSS Standard or Reg.

let us know how yours is wired….but there appears not to be a cast in cincrete standsrd for PAC or such.  Elkhart was notorious for wiring mods as their folks were smarter than the design “clowns” in Oregon.

SNOWFLAKE properly fits this topic.

1 hour ago, Kenster said:

Thank you.

I can offer a REAL….tested and PROVEN METHOD.  In 2018, I had my “film” bra replaced by Dazzling Detail. I got the installer to cut a piece of the high performance 3M UV resistant new “bra” and then mold and attach (capillary action) over my headlights. Mine weren’t bad, actually looked great.  He polished them and then used the squeegee out the water and his heat gun and they became a perfect cover.  In 6 more years….and the MH’s front faces the setting sun….it is housed in a garage style carport in the storage yard.

THEY are PERFECT. There is nothing high tech or uses any special adhesive….he just cleaned and sprayed and then worked out the bubbles and moisture and then did a little (heat bending) hand work to get the 3 M to adhere.  Any detailer that can put on protective film…like our “bras” can do it.  You could order a sheet and cut the size or shape…and if too big, you use a razor blade and trim, in the field, off the selvage.

WORKS ….trust me. I wish I had had thr Yukon lights covered…

23 minutes ago, saflyer said:

Don’t understand it but we have cold water flow now. To get to the park spigot I had pulled the hose to its limit. My wife suggested I retract it just a little. That seemed to solve the problem. It’s still a mystery. Why did we have hot water flow but not cold. I don’t understand how source pressure could have caused the problem. Oh well, we’ll see if the fix lasts.

Simple…or should I say….could be.  There are two theories.

First…there was a twist or kink in the line…maybe you dislodged it. BUT, THERE IS ONLY ONE SUPPLY. If you had full flow on the hot water, there was adequate pressure to “put new or unheated” city water into the tank,  if there was an upstream restriction like a kink or twist, that impacts the WHOLE system.  So, your line or faucet pressure, throughout the MH, at every outlet or faucet or such, regardless of hot or cold would have been reduced….OK…Shot down in flames.

NEXT UP. There was a restriction in either the cold water line to the kitchen faucet or some thing got into the “cold cartridge” or the seal/seat/O-ring that controls cold.

Did you test any other facuets? Did you test them for both cold and hot?

OK…there is another thread going on “abnormalities” or “gee…is this normal” and the OP says he is a newbie and may be looking for something that is not broken and is normal.

There is a great deal of information there.  Particularly related to the need, or the value, of having washing machine filters in use at almost every point or where there is a washer….as well as putting male garden hose plastic plugs in the fresh water hose and the backflush fitting.  Might be good reading.

The FINAL comment, which someone might have alluded to. If you recently filled the fresh tank…make sure the valve is closed.  Many of us practice the close and reopen and close technique. Sometimes a few particles of trash or debris (thus the need for the washing machine filter screens) will get in snd you will gradually “fill” the fresh tank. This is a gradual process….not a monsoon like when the pump backflow valve fails and you overflow the tank.

GOOD LUCK.

10 hours ago, Benjamin said:

Where does it say "this is a boost"?  maybe that would help explain it.  I still can't find anything that indicates the ATC ever applies more fuel or more hp than without the ATC.  I can't believe there is a "hot rod mode" in the ECU, the EPA would love that. 

From the Bendix manual, it's possible the switch turns on the "smart ATC" or more likely the "optional off road ATC mode".  Those both allow GREATER wheel slip than the standard ATC mode, that is, they reduce the ATC's reduction to engine power, not provide additional power over the base mode.  

In my opinion, the switch should be used on soft surfaces, and it "dials down" the ATC settings.  On ice or snow on hard surfaces, the standard mode seems to work. 

Another thing ATC does is protect the driveline from operator abuse.  It is in the manufacturers interests to keep it on, and turned up to limit wheel slip as much as possible as long as possible. 

Benjamin,

Seems like this was covered in detail in the post that Richard shared from August 2023.

If you don't like the semantics of my term BOOST....then we shall have to agree to disagree.  It was NOT a technical term but my interpretation or description. Basically, if you read on....  The NORMAL mode covers NORMAL driving.  When you get into a situation that is NOT NORMAL and you need ADDITIONAL TRACTION (like being stuck or almost stuck), the MANUAL ON MODE is used.  If you don't like BOOST....then fine.  That was my layman's term to describe it....

But in answer to your post(s?) in August 23, which were also copied here.....

The ATC is a MOMENTARY CONTACT SWITCH to provide additional traction in special situations... (read the manual text).

The ABS/ATC system is always active and in use as you drive, providing there are no faults or warnings.  It is designed to give you the combination of reduced stopping (as in applying the brakes individually to each wheel to prevent lockup and skidding) as well as to give you increased traction if you hit a slick spot in rain or inclement weather. This is exactly how modern day cars work....so the concept matches the "FMVSS" regulations/specifications or intent.

The Momentary switch is like an AUTO/ON switch.  The switch is an "INTERRUPT" function.  I have NOT pulled the wiring, but the switch is there to disengage the normal (see the information of the ABS/ATC being full time and activated during normal operation) function.  Thus Pressing it and HOLDING IT takes the ABS/ATC out of AUTO.

Holding down the switch to the ON mode, as I defined it.....that function or mode change then changes the software in the ABS/ATC Module.  Call it on OVERRIDE or a MODE CHANGE. The two functional Mode Changes are in the manual and spelled out....as posted.

Thus...after the event is over, and you RELEASE the Momentary Contact switch....which is to provide you with the needed additional traction, the ABS/ATC system reverts back to FULL AUTO.

YES...for the sake of discussion...  When you PRESS and HOLD the ATC Switch....the NORMAL, Full Time Auto functions or operating parameters are now OFF...  BUT...you have NOT DISENGAGED or turned off the ABS/ATC System.  You have selected a different mode.  One that matches you need for additional traction. The ON mode is controlled by the driver.  You MUST hold in the momentary contact switch to have the different features or software parameters.  

Thus the ABS/ATC has two discreet functions....NORMAL DRIVING...and SEVERE OR UH OH (I prefer BOOST).

There is NO MANUAL WAY (probably is...but we don't need to go there) to TOTALLY TURN OFF the ABS/ATC system....only change functions or modes.  

Hope this clarifies how it works. Lets move on as this was a "morphed sideroad" of the original post.  

Thanks...

12 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Traction control limits torque, and applies brakes to limit speeds at low speeds. I'm not so sure of what that manual is saying.  To me the "ATC switch" paragraph sound just like it's turning the system OFF, like has always been available with ATC, but explained in a more salemanlike wording.  It could also be limiting the limit on engine power, while still applying some braking?  Or it could be a power boost over stock settings?  The way the paragraph starts and ends with garbage sentences, I have a hard time putting any credibility in the rest of the paragraph. 

so the three possibilities I see

1. the switch turns off the system

2. the switch reduces the hp limit on the system and still provides some braking

3. the switch provides a hp boost over stock

Well, that is what Bendix says and how it was designed...

My take...

The ABS/ATC works, full time and is always ACTIVE so you are safer...especially in a panic braking situation.  BTW...I attended a 3 day Corvette Performance (and defensive driving) school.  The first thing they taught us and took us out onto a wet skid pad....  DO NOT BABY THE ABS.  HIT IT WITH BOTH FEET.  It is designed for a PANIC stop.  YES, use the controlled or pulsating or feathering braking techniques you were taught.  Their major gripe...that Drivers Ed teachers gloss over or don't really understand ABS.

When you say OMG...I GOTTA STOP...hit the pedal hard (on the Vette)...same for the ABS.  You have to "wake it up" and put it in the panic mode to control the stopping and IT will keep the wheels from totally locking up....

OK...next up...the infamous switch.

It says  "THIS IS A BOOST" You are NOT supposed to drive with this switch on...that is why it is MOMENTARY CONTACT"

Past that. 

The NORMAL ABS/ATC SYSTEM is now OFF...NADA...KAPUT....as in there is a BOOST NEEDED...as in you are in trouble....and potentially stuck.

The ECM is now being put into a HOT ROD MODE...as in the Torque is being kicked up...more torque to the wheels to try to extricate you from your stupidity.

The ATC Braking now is focused on the REAR WHEELS....forget the front...they ain't gonna pull you out.  SO, the ATC acts like my old Posi-Axle and the wheel spin is reduced or controlled and the natural or designed action of the Open Differential takes over or is allowed MORE FREEDOM.  Thus the illfated spinning wheel gets shut down.  That kicks MORE Torque to the wheel with traction and the Engine is deliverig MORE fUEL but the RPM are being controlled.

That's my take and understanding.  Download the Bendix manual...

OK>>>BOGO...here it is... Happen to have my PDF on another screen...

Bendix ABS_ATC Manual.pdf

10 minutes ago, Brad Loehr said:

As always, thanks for the info Tom.

I get it for sure, the Magnum I have is really old but all in all the coach was not used very much at all and is in amazing shape.  I will see what Magnum comes back with a reply for costs associated with a new board or inverter replacement.  

As for the LFP battery monitoring system; the 50 Amp DC to DC with solar MPTT will control my solar charging for both house and chassis batteries and it will also eliminate the battery boost solenoid and the cabling that will over run the alternator so I can let the DC to DC charger do the work.  The Renogy DC to DC converter and smart battery shunt connects to the Core One Display and will be able to monitor everything onboard on the display and over the phone.  The batteries have quality BMS installed in each one.

The only thing I want the inverter/charger to do is give me inverted power when I need it and to properly charge my LFP batteries.  

My AGS does work in test mode but as for the other controls (voltage, temp, etc) it does not work automatically.  The coach is fairly new to me and I havent got into troubleshooting it yet but to me it is a nice thing to have in the future.  Whether I stick with Magnum or go with Victron or another inverter is to be decided.  

In all of the readers opinion:

If I had to buy a new Magnum inverter and other components what would you recommend? It would be nice to have more than 2000 watts of power...

If I had to buy a new Victron what is the best for that system?

Is there any others that I should look at?

Do I just cheap out and say screw it and buy another four 6 volt Trojan T-105s?

First...Magnum has sort of backed off from "the  OK, this is what is most logical"  Maybe the new owner.  But the older techs would shy away, based on useful life...from putting a board on a 8 - 10 YO UNIT.  Some have...with good results...but they did it themselves and Magnum assumes it will be done by one of the certified techs or distributors.

Thus, my comment.  Why spend 50% or more for a 17 Year Old box...with a whole lot more components.  That is the rule of thumb that industry uses on Replace vs Repair...this one fails misearabely....or it wound if I were approving the expenditure...which I did and we were in the hundreds of thousands...but the logic applies

Next...  You will need a total rebuild of the AC distribution system to get full value from the 2,800 units.  There are TWO outputs on the 2012. NOT SO, the 2812 needs dual inverters in the AC panel and a full blow, 8 breaker sub panel.  SO, you have a problem.  You can copy the Monaco system...but a 2,800 is wasted.  The ONLY reason for the extra 800 Watts...a Res Refer.  We have hundreds...maybe more that are FINE with the 2000 watt inverter.  They understand that you can exist quite nicely.  NOW...some like NOT to use their Genny.  So, depends on what your needs and motivations and wantees are...

The extra 800 was to give you full 2000 Watts...of HOUSE power....and most have not exceeded that or had issue.

Victron upgrades and all sort of goodies and systems are a HORSE of ANOTHER COLOR.  We have Threads specifically on that.  Put Victron in the Search Box.  Click on Everywhere and pick topics.  Put on a large pot of coffee (not DECAF) and read and read...then PM folks or call them and discuss. 

OK...now, if you READ the Battery 101 and the Magnum HOW TO SET UP files, which I was asked to pull together and author, I am a simple person.  You can spend say $700 for 4 new 225 Amp Hour Trojan T-105's.  Maybe another $50 for the Battery Miser caps.  Then less than $50 for a "Halogen Work Light" and a hydrometer.  This assumes yo have a DVOM.

You keep the fluid level where it should be and the NEW Trojans have a MARK for that...no guessing.  You exercise or run down, to around 50%, the Trojans every 4 - 6 months or so...I multitask and do things to the MH.  The actual battery maintenance takes maybe an hour each time...but you have to discharge...so you fix things...or surf...  

Folks are ROUTINELY getting 8 or more years from the Trojans. NOW...these folks, like me, do the PM...but our costs per year are minimal.  YOU CAN KEEP your existing Magnum....and such.  IF the Magnum dies....upgrade to PSW and get a new remote. I do NOT need nor would utilize the BMK or Shunt system. Others do...If you do BOON DOCK and run down the Trojans every few months....all you need to do is refill...BUT read the two Papers..

Personally...and I HOPE this does not offend anyone...  I don't see Lithiums in my future....even if the cost comes down.  There is a HECK OF A LOT MORE RISK or damage if you are NOT a real expert on them. I know how to and COULD keep them up and use them.  BUT, I do fine with Lead Acid's  We have had many members that felt that putting in the AGM's and never touching them was the panacea...and then they found out...you have to STILL exercise...but not refill the cells.  Many have been disillusioned and reverted back...most to Trojans.

SO...the call is yours.  IF I had a brand new, upper end....way above the old Monaco Sig...I WOULD expect Lithiums...but that entire electrical system was designed around them....

The Monaco systems were never even designed for AGM's.  Fortunately the Magnums will work with them.  Magnum is probably NOT the most technologically advanced and their forte is LEAD ACID...or AGM's.  SO...  I would not, even with what I know I can do and my understanding, put Lithiums on a Magnum.  I'd start over.

BUT, to do that...you need to totally understand what ocean you are now swimming in...and it like like the backyard pool at your house.

We DO have experts...and they know HOW to rewire and they take a different route.  From my "Cost evaluation" standpoint...the total upgrade of my system with components that would protect the Lithiums would be way too much to invest...and the return on that investment would be POOR....very poor compared to my conventional system with Trojans. Mine works for me.  I don't SCRIMP on batteries... I use Trojans and maintain them. 

SO.. It costs me maybe $100 per year, depreciated, to have a robust and reliable DC inverter system.  Even if I had to purchase a NEW Magnum PSW, that with the accessories and such, would only be $2000 or so...but then and ONLY then, would I sit down and cost estimate and design, after a LOT of research....a Lithium system.  The cost of the cells would be a key factor...

That's my take.  This is my opinion, which you asked me and others for...

SO....read and learn...and then do the cost analysis and remember....that money into a 19 YO box....will only be a money pit...and if it FAILS....Then the odds are HIGH...you have damaged your Lithiums...

Good Luck...great questions...

1 minute ago, Benjamin said:

That wouldn't be Automatic Traction Control if it was a momentary switch, would it.  Maybe you turned the ATC OFF to let the engine give more power?  I don't have ATC, just assuming it works similar to cars and is on by default, the switch if for turning it off in soft conditions when the programming won't let it use enough power to get out.  Traction control seems to work better than I can do on paved slippery surfaces and all the snow I've encountered, just not programmed for off road, though maybe that's fixed on newer 4wd.  In any case, ATC would not enable a broken axle shaft or differential to move like a differential lock or posi does, and I've never heard of posi on a motorhome.  

I'd like to see a pic of the saddle and strap you're talking about.  And also which side was locked up?  I'd think the one that was free would spin and bury itself, while the stuck one would stay on top of the ground. 

Stuck brakes can usually be freed with gentle pressure.  If that doesn't work, then tapping the pads loose is not hard, just dangerous if you don't block the wheels, or can't fit.  The parking brakes have to be released, hence the danger. 

 

read the excerpt from my manual.  You can download any 2006 or on up manual or at least Camelot on up.  The ABS/ATC is a fully active...FULL TIME SYSTEM.  It gives you braking and traction control during events like rain and such.  That is what Bendix designed it for.  SO....note the ALWAYS ACTIVE note. I didn't feel it was necessary to print the previous page as it went into the tech side of it.

BUT, if you read this.  You get an ATC BOOST... (and If I used ATS...my bad)...that is what a lot of automotive companies call it.

The Momentary Contact ATC switch is like a Turbo Boost for a system that is full time.  SO, technically, it overrides the conventional....just rolling down the highway system....that is ALWAYS ON.

Next, it, per the page, does two things.

SO, depending on your point of view or the semantics...

WE ALWAYS have a certain amount of ABS....which is really the MOST important and critical. BUT, if you need immediate help...like you made an UH OH, then when you push and it is NOT locked in....MOMENTARY...the ATC control...you get the TWO step boost...as explained.

That's how it work...and how it is explained.

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

Some coaches come with the ATC option. My Windsor has it along with my Dynasty. I had to use the ATC when I got the Windsor stuck in my back alley way in the soft sand. It is a momentary switch, hold it on and the drive axles are now turning together. The coach walked right out of the soft sand it had been stuck in.

Yes,

BUT, it is a bit different.  As I explained....the old fashioned application of the parking brake worked in a car. BUT, the Posi-Axle was more effective and was far superior.

If you read the Owner's manual explanation of the ABS/ATC , there are subtle nuances.  YES, the braking or individual wheel braking is used.  BUT, also the ECM (ECU) is over ridden, so the engine sort of "perks up" and allows MORE torque at a lower RPM.  Frank McElroy might clarify my simplification...but you get MORE torque.

Then the individual spinning wheel is "throttled back" as in slowed down. The normal operation of the Differential takes over...and it, internally, kicks up the torque to the wheel with traction.  OK...a Posi-axle on a FWD is quicker...but eventually, the controlled braking took over.  My old International Scout with the Dana transfer case was a BEAST of a FWD system....and it came with a Pos-Axle.  IT only got stuck once...and I worked hard at accomplishing that.

I don't think....other may know...exactly HOW much or what percentage increase the ATC switch does....compared to what one is used to on a FWD...the old or the new ATC controlled braking.

SO, if it works... GREAT.  OPPS...if the brake DRUMS ARE RUSTED AND FROZEN....the ATC ain't gonna work...

Good comment....

2009 Camelot Owner Manual....ATC activation and explanation.pdf

2 hours ago, Brad Loehr said:

I have started doing the research into upgrading my house batteries to four 100 Ah LifePO4 batteries to replace the flooded 6 V batteries I have currently.

I have decided to go with four Renogy 100 Ah batteries, a 300 Amp smart battery shunt, a 50 amp DC to DC charger with MPTT (to elimate alternator fatigue), and the Renogy One Core monitor. 

The problem I ran into is my Magnum ME-2012 inverter charger is too old (2005).  It has the custom battery charge settings in the ME-RC50 but when speaking with tech support from Magnum he says my software is too old at version 3.6 and for the inverter to understand the settings the version needs to be 5.9 or higher.  

Info from Magnum:

"Thanks for reaching out to Magnum Technical Support today. You were looking for the settings to charge Lithium batteries. I have attached to this email a Magnum ME-RC50 remote setting sheet with the settings you should program into your remote for your Lithium batteries. Before you program them in I would like you to verify the firmware of the ME2012. The ME-RC50 is lithium compatible. Press the TECH button under the display and 01 Temperatures will be displayed on the display. now turn the spin button 1-click to the right to 02 Versions and press the spin button to select. Inverter version will be displayed. This version needs to be version 5.9 or higher. If version is 5.4 or lower the inverter will not understand the settings I just sent you. The batteries will charge weird. If you have installed your Lithium check and make sure that you did not attach the ME-BTS (Battery Temp Sensor) this is no longer needed it is plugged into the Yellow port on the inverter. The Lithium batteries have their own BMS which takes care of this and when ME-BTS is installed will cause weird charging of the batteries. "

Magnum has told me I need to replace the inverter or the control board to update to LFP.  I have a few questions for anyone that has done the Lithium conversion with the Magnum inverters and ran into this same issues:

Do I need to purchase a new control board or can the old one be reprogrammed?  

Do I need to replace my ME-RC50 control monitor to a newer version? 

Do I need to replace my AGS control to a newer version?

What have other people used in place of the Magnum inverter/chargers for charging the LFP batteries?

I have seen that some people have used the CC-CV charge mode settings for LFP batteries.  Anyone else use them?

CC-CV (CC is Bulk & CV is Absorb) Charge Settings for 4 100 Ah LFP batteries : Max charge current 100A, CV volts 14.4 V, CV charge done time 2 hours, CV charge done Amps 0 A, Max CC-CV charge time 6 hours, Set re-charge volts 13.2 V, Cut out volts 12 V

 

In case you have version 5.9 or higher I have included the document from Magnum on what to set your charge parameters to for LFP batteries.

ME-RC50 LFP Battery Settings.docx 7.18 kB · 0 downloads

Practically,...Time to get out the credit card. The useful life of your inverter is way past OLD AGE. 

Putting in a NEW control board, especially on a MSV inverter, no offense, even if you do it yourself, is not cost effective.  The boards, depending on where you buy them, are in the $500 or so...or more...and that might be for a refurbished one...  NOW that info may be a bit old....but I have asked Magnum, several times over the years, what, if the control board is dead, should a member do.

SAME ANSWER.  Now Magnum has updated their Techs.  Caleb (memory) and the lady (sounds young).  The older techs all were pretty straight forward.  FORGET IT...

Practically, you will need to install a new PSW inverter.  it will come with the BTS.  BUT...YES, you WILL NEED a new Remote.  If you are NOT of the mind for the BMK (Battery Monitoring Kit)...specifically for the Magnum, then don't even  think about wasting your money on the ME - ACR or the ADVANCED remote.  The current one will work fine.

The AGS, assuming it is the 5 Knob, is reliable as a leaky life boat and you are in the middle of the Pacific.  The AGS-N is totally plug and play.  SO, it all pops in. We have threads on that.. The KNOBS style has a separate thread and that explains a whole lot about that issue.

NOW, many that have as much as you have invested...or will invest...in batteries DO WANT a "Shunt Based Monitoring System".  Victron makes one and the most recent experiences that I have had helping a Windsor owner and knowing his "knowledge and skill set", I would compare costs....  The cost of the upgrade to the Advanced or BMK compatible remote and the BMK kit.  I THINK the VIctron is a little more "high techy looking" so it reminds folks of their smart phones.  In the Windsor's case, he did NOT have a Magnum inverter.  

BUT, if I was putting in a NEW inverter, Remote, AGS .... I would give serious consideration to the upgrade and stay with the entire Magnum system.  We have members that are more than experts...they could do Magnum Tech Support...SO... staying with an entire system designed on one platform would be my choice.

BUT...  You FIRST have to decide if you WANT the Shunt based system...and then price out the VIctron.  I'd do some research and see how it integrates with the Magnum and what the reviews and satisfaction is.....as well as the costs of Victron vs Magnum...

There will be, as usual, members that will have differing opinions.  BUT, when Magnum recommends an upgrade...and based on the investment in your batteries, it seems foolish to me to pour money into a 19 YO device and try to "upgrade" it to make it work. The Control board will or may do that...but the rest of the package (remote and AGS) is gonna have to be done...

OK...maybe you can come close...but the $$ involved and having your expensive Lithiums fail....would not be worth the risk to me.

FWIW, I have helped more members on Magnum issues than I can count.  I have spent hours, over the years, asking questions and learning about the Magnums...and I STILL call and ask...

SO, based on what I know and the fact that I have been able to help maybe 20 members do RESETS and understand and salvage their 10 - 20 year old Magnums....my gut and experience and knowledge says...

Based on this discussion, many times and even more recently.. the reality of it is what you might not want to read.  Can't sugar coat it, perhaps put a little more bluntly..  Putting a  new board in the 17 YO Magnum is only part of the issues.  There is another board (power) as well as fans and sensors and such.  SO. it will NOT be a total rebuild...just a partial and it is at risk of other failures. 

That's my recommendation....based on what you said....Magnum said...and what I know from experience with many other members.

WOW….getting mixed terms and so forth.

I’m going to declare my alligence to Ivan and Vito

Lets stay on the same page.  A standard differential, whether on a lawn tractor or an OTR rig, not “tandem” has been around since Henry Ford.  The gears and such inside allow one wheel to turn faster than the other….otherwise…it would be a solid axle.

https://www.hrparts.com/blog/post/what-is-differential-diagram-how-works

Suggest folks not familiar, or those “quasi familiar” go here.. 5 minute read….with pictures.

We have an OPEN differential…. PURE and simple…. Matters not on a Motor Home or a John Deere tractor or whatever.  If it has a pure or open differential….it works the same…. Just a matter of scale….like comparing a “8 OZ hammer to a 10 pound sledge”….a hammer, generically speaking…is a hammer…same for a differential.

OK…wild terms and confusion.  Technically, the standard or open differential is a “power dividing mechanism.  When one turns sharp…most of the power, as in the inner axle is “transferred” from the drive shaft to the inner axle.  Almost…if you like….LOCKED or a direct gear drive.  The Outer one is just floating along and the movement of the carrier or the “innards” allow the outer to MOVE FASTER….otherwise….mega tire wear.

NOW…back to my example…  when one axle (wheel) is allowed to turn faster and the other one is barely moving or NOT moving, the antiquated design will allow all the torque to go to the axle with less drag or resistance.  SO…one wheel on pavement snd one in the mud….bingo, the one in the mud spins like a whirligig in a hurricane.  The one on the pavement is content to rest….thus…one is incapacitated and stuck.

Hot Rodders and Hunters and off road enthusiasts KNOW that one can mire up and get even a 4WD stuck.  Seen it many times.  Both sides in the mud and the other sides on harder or surfaces with more coefficient of friction….YOU ARE STUCK….

Thus, the design on the inside was modified.  A set of clutches was installed….on each side.  When one axle is spinning its Wheel….the clutches work interactively (memory)….and then the hey, isn’t this fun spinning axle gets “cut off” as in all the driveshaft torque is transmitted to the other one.  Bingo…that wheel begins to dig in and the wheel has traction and the vehicle moves forward…but when that wheel gets stuck….then the clutches swap back and the other wheel starts to PULL.  Drag racers may have a locked or solid axle…since the ain’t making turns.  Folks like me then using a Positive Traction (Posi”) axle, with expertise and throttle control, can “walk” out a stuck vehicle.  Tricky…but if you happen to have a Posi in the front…even my DW could do it…  WE DO NOT HAVE A POSI….BUT UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLE.

My example still stands.  Modern Day ATS systems apply, precisely, enough braking so the free wheeling or spinning axle slowed down….and more torque is applied to the non moving side.  And the old fashioned “learned in the mud” method of gradually applying the parking brake slows both down….but the power will be shifted to the one not turning enough….get it moving and also get a little traction….and you “walk” the beast out.

Hope the link helps and this keeps things back on track.

Based on understanding how ours works and the voices of experience and also, been there….done that…the advice to block and jack and test is appropriate.

Otherwise, find a good OTR shop or a HD truck shop that specializes in repair of differentials involved.  Otherwise test and drive on.

ODDS ARE…things are fine.  We have an over engineered or poerhaps a robust rear drive train… 

Just be aware.  A Frozen drum brake is a potential for issues.  It MIGHT be better to pay a mobile “mechanical” tech from a heqvy duty truck garage to come put and break loose the rusted bond,  ORDINARILY….backing up and then pulling forward….not rapid shifting, will break the bond. But if try to pop into drive….rev it up and then punch R…at anything other than idle…is gonna hurt the rear end and the Allison and the driveshaft and you may spend 10 times what a mobile tech would have cost….  

Experential Docent

24 minutes ago, MyronTruex said:

I usually try to copy and paste into a word document when writing gets long, because I have accidentally blown up my response. Not just on this forum. So I know it was likely my fault but found it strange that only part of it showed up. HOWEVER, it is copy when I did a Ctrl C, that I hit a Ctrl V. Or worse, Ctrl X.

Been know to happen. In any case, no worries and I hope no one thinks I suspected someone editing it. It was just a dumb thing on my part.

As a moderator on another Forum I am aware of the backroom work and capabilities and the history etc. 

Thanks.

 

Great….I think, memory….the first one was that….others didn’t pay attention to…but the top had the hyper links.

I can’t explain if the hyperlinks showed up as photos and then, when you hit save….they reverted back to a clickable link.

OFFER still stands…you want them as photos….did and done.  You had a different JPG that just disappeared…PM…

That’s the drill…let me know….

Your “question or comments” were pure and simple…but for the edification of others…I did need to explain how it worked as paranoia knows no boundaries…LOL…

25 minutes ago, n4248z said:

2004 Monaco, La Palma 36DBD. Two piece front windshield passenger side needs to be replaced. Need the passenger side, power mirror replaced and marker light along front right. Motorhome is drivable now and the front damage is mostly cosmetic. Progressive has determined that the unit is totaled. Located in the finger lakes region of upstate New York. I may try to acquire the motorhome back as salvage as it is way too nice to scrap. If the motorhome was located back in Florida, where I winter for six months, there would be no problem getting someone to come to the motorhome to replace the windshield and I could take it somewheres possibly near Lakeland for the bodywork. Any suggestions or ideas?

Duncan and I THINK….RV Glass solutions have shops in Elkhart.  Duncan was running a “have the tempered glass” for the side made…. They do the install.  You have to have the glass frame pulled…many local shops in Elkhart will do that.

Duncan, in 2018, had my prints.  The other pane shattered.  I used 3 layers of clear Gorilla and drove it.  From SEATTLE to Duncan in Elkhart.  Back then, there was a “drive in” CG there.

RV Glass and others can also fix.  They pull the frame.  They cut “Windshield or the two pane sandwich glass with a plastic filling”.  Either will work.  WS glass would, per Glass Solutions, look a smidge different…tinted tempered vs tinted WS glass.  I opted for the Duncan factory tempered…took 5 weeks and we had an appointment in Elkhart at a shop.  Timing was perfect.

That’s what I know and how it worked 6 years ago.  
 

Duncan moved, but has two sites in Indiana.  RV Glass has a large site in Elkhart.  They might recommend a shop to get a mirror ….