Tom Cherry

12 hours ago, pwhittle said:

Hi Richard,

Same as on ours.

Measure it out, allowing the distance to the center of the coach to run forward, and see how close your estimate is to mine.

At least with Lithium, we may have an option to put the batteries in that bay.

Paul

OK….my take….and what Magnum told me.  The AGS Module is NOT, when using the REMOTE, taking any signal from a remote on the battery.  Whatever value is being input or provided to the Magnum remote….that is the Digital or Multiplexed value or control for the AGS….regardless of old 4 or new AGS-N.

Therefore, if you use the remote readout as the “gospel” or the set parameter for “start” or turn on, then, as I posted, you need to know how that correlates to the real world of the HOUSE BANK.  That takes into account the “innate error”, as Magnum verified, of the remote meter…..versus the Battery Voltage.

NEXT….you have to know how much voltage drop you are experiencing ….UNDER LOAD. You then set the START voltage based on that….but you subtract 0.1 or one tenth.  The Magnum reaction or “OMG, START should be based or calculated that way.

PUT another way.  Lets say you want to start when the batteries reach 50% SOC.  That is defined as the “recovery” voltage….NOT the under load voltage.  Per the charts….the SOC for 50% is about 12 VDC.  LETS ASSUME the Magnum meter is perfect….your DVM and it are dead on.  NOW, lets assume that your UNDER LOAD Voltage is 11.9 VDC…..and you KNOW, through testing that when that stabilizes…..or remains constant….that the bank will recover to 12.0.  SO….as LONG as the UNDER LOAD voltage is 11.9….OK.  BUT when the under load voltage hits 11.8…..then it is time to start and recharge…NOT 11.9…

SO, per Magnum and Trojan, you set the AGS to 11.8. The Magnum has a timed delay…..so maybe after 2 minutes….assuming the voltage is stabile….and it reads 11.8….BINGO the genny starts.  You had a brief, inconsequential time of a couple of minutes where the SOC dropped to say 45% or so….but you met the objective of “recharge” when SOC is LESS than 50%.

OK….hope that helps…..

NEXT UP….you need to know the delta or error or difference between the REAL DVOM House voltage and what the Magnum remote reads….once you know that is Zero or maybe 0.1 or probably closer to 0.2…..then you adjust or use the correlated Remote voltage.  Worse case….say there is a 0.2 VDC error.  You set your Magnum based on expecting it to be 11.8….OPPS, in reality…the Battery Voltage is higher…..as the Magnum remote TYPICALLY, per Magnum, reads LOWER.  Thus, 11.8 on the REMOTE is actually 12.0 on the DVM.  NOW to correlate and achieve your 50% SOC, you have to set the VOLTAGE LOWER….0.2 ERRROR…..OMG….that will be 11.6.  BLASPHEMY.  NOPE reality.  

SO when someone says…..NEVER SET BELOW 12.0….there are two misconceptions.  First….that should be 11.9….as when 12.1 DROPS to 12.09….that is a 12…  NOPE….when the UNDER LOAD Hits 11.8….that is the correct value.

second….the meters are NOT PERFECT.

REALITY….Monaco put the AGM’s up front or back in the rear.  If in manual, I THINK that the placement here and voltage issues or drops are ONLY Relevant when you use it in manual mode.  In the REMOTE MONITOR controlled mode….the REMOTE is the “Voltage Keeper”.  Call Magnum and verify.

SECOND, I have NO IDEA if you have a BMK what the remote wil read compared to the DVOM at the battery.  Test and then adjust….or maybe not needed.

THIRD, @Frank McElroy did a little “rewring”.  I don’t remember exactly why, but he changed it so the actual REMOTE reading has less LOSS.  He will have to chime in.

THATS MY UNDERSTANDING and the explanation and logic of how to properly set the AGS from the remote….

NOW, you see, if your mind took months like mine did to develop snd understand the above scenario……why Magnum decided NOT to “tell the average” owner….but in detailed discussions…..this is how it works…..and Trojan says….when the Under Load voltage….which is NOT the true or recovery voltage…..usually 0.10 - 0.20….you set the AGS to come on 0.1 below that….

5 minutes ago, klcdenver said:

There is an existing forum “Ride Height Adjustment 08 Camelot” you might want to look at it. It appears they never found it for 2008 but adjusted to 8 13/16”.  If you read in your instructions in step 6. It refers to doing the rear valves next. So it means do the front valve first. Not very plain.

MODERATOR NOTE.

Ken is correct.  It is a rule to do a title or subject search, prior to a new tooic.

@Ali-026

Ordinarily , your new topic, which is a virtual repeat of the other one, would be merged.  BUT….due to the age of that topic and the number of replies….as well as “the staff has a life, too” and we didn’t catch it earlier….this topic stands.

However, here is the old one….and as Ken says….the gist of the replies were in the old thread….not merging.

Please review this and get more information…. 

Please follow the guidelines for key word search prior to staring a new topic.  Thanks for doing that in the future….
 

1 hour ago, rvendramin said:

What charges the house batteries? Does the generator start off the house batteries or the chassis batteries?

Moderator EDIT.  Title was edited for info and clarity.

OK…

You have great answers….to summarize and also help you find the information next time, we always hope that before a topic is posted, than an owner reviews their. Owner’s manual.  

Sections 8 and 9 provide a lot more than just what you asked.  You wil learn a lot….and don’t be discouraged if it all sort of “blows your mind”….it happens to most….and even now, I still learn nuances that I didn’t know or sometimes correct a misunderstanding.

The inverter charges the House Bank.  But, how this all happens and the “OMG”….no outlet power or lights or such is a common question.  So read about how the inverter works and actually take the manual and identify the components and understand how to “read or program” things like the Inverter remote.  

ANOTHER valuable resource is the SALES BROCHURE…

You can download the manual as well as the Sales Brochure here.

https://www.monacocoach.com/service-and-repairs/

OK….quickly….from the Sales Brochure we find out a LOT.  The end has ever section or system.  And based on going over prints for others, I’m pretty confident….your Genny starts off the House.  Rick IS correct….Monaco flipped and flopped.. The LOWER ends from Camelot on down, in 2007 were HOUSE GENNY CRANK.  The Dynasty and up were CHASSIS GENNY CRANK.  Rick’s “no right or wrong“ is correct but since at least 2007 (maybe a year or so earlier) and until Monaco (Navistar owned after bankruptcy in 2009) was sold to REV circa 2013/14….this is almost iron clad.  BUT  one never knows….nor does one know if a Previous owner, or an owner like Ben, chose to swap…  it is done.

OK….next up….the charging….I got off track due to looking for a link and giving you a resource.  You have, most likely, a Magnum inverter.  Read the section 8.  If you find the Inverter Remote….odds are….it says MAGNUM.

An Inverter is actually a dual purpose device.  It supplies 120 VAC power from the house 12 VDC bank.).  It is ALSO a CHARGER….that charges the House bank. So, in your case….when you run the gnerator….or are on AC (Pedestal) power….the Inverter’s “CHARGING” section is ON….unless you turn it off and most never do..  SO it charges your House Batteries.

When you drive, the engine alternator charged the CHASSIS Bank. If you carefully READ the charging section 8…Page 155.  It states….when driving….The Alternator will CHARGE the House…Conversely….Pedestal Power or Genny will CHARGE the Chassis.  That is called BiDirectional charging….a MUST.

OK….enough “lessons” for today.

BUT….when a new or inexperienced member starts asking questions about electrical and such….we have to post a STANDARD and IMPORTANT warning.

THERE is a KNOWN SAFETY DEFECT in the OEM Systems.  Look on page 155.  If your rig has the IOTA 50-R Automatic Transfer Switch, it MUST be replaced.  It is defective and has the potential for a FIRE or other damages.  Your coach is an “orphan”.  Navistar bought Monaco in bankruptcy.  They have NO LEGAL Obligation to recall MONACO installed items.  They recalled all 2010 models that had this switch and replaced them.  If yours has this switch (see picture), it is DANGEROUS.  We recommend that you use the Motor Home sparingly….and immediately rectify.  Many good ATS out there.  The most popular “stocked” switch is the ESCO LPT50BRD….AKA “LYGHT” ATS.  Many have researched and selected other brands and models. You can do a search here    Use IOTA and click on EVERYWHERE…..then select TOPICS.  Pages and pages of every post.  The two sentences that I wrote sum it up.

PLEASE verify which brand you have and if IOTA…be aware of the potential danger.

Good luck….welcome aboard…

NOTE....This is a FOLLOWUP or the "BTW" or MORPHED question towards the end of the following topic.  Todd, and THANKS TO HIM, did a lot of leg work and actually tested his BIRD system.  So, if you are NOT familiar with that thread....please scroll down to where he asked questions about the charging system...  There will be a NOTE on it referring to this post for the final answer. We felt it was NOTEWORTHY enough to actually start a new topic...

I AM receiving some offline feedback and discussions.  IF there is something in this post that needs correcting...I have ITALICIZED that text or paragraph as I promised some members that I would do...or have verified something that they thought was wrong...Two Way Street.

As a background, Todd's 2002 Windsor is different from many others.  how many and what percentage...no one knows.  Todd was able to START the engine with the Chassis Battery disconnected and got a warning on his Victron  Shunt based "Battery Monitoring Kit"...which is what Magnum also calls their system.  Had he NOT had it.....the gauges probably would have been "FUNKY".  This occurred 10 or more years ago and we did a test...with some willing Camelot owners.  TEN (or so....memory...not ONE or TWO) would NOT start with the Chassis OFF.  BUT ONE DID and the Gauges were crazy.

YES....That is NOT how one is supposed to do it.  BUT, like many of us, Todd accidentally TURNED OFF the Chassis....it happens.

OK... Once that was resolved...that, AGAIN, the same model....built within some time frame, will be different..IT happens.  Many use the term SNOWFLAKES...  LOL. 

Todd's Rig has had some "GUTTING".

The PO removed and taped off the Salesman Switch.  He had also disconnected the Lambert Maintainer.  Todd posted pictures and we discussed. Suggest you scroll the other thread if these are not "embedded in your brain"...

SO... Todd agreed to do the testing.  We have spent a week on it due to vacations and such.  I also discussed with Frank McElroy.  I also did a key word search in the PDF of the 2002 Windsor manual.  If you don't know how to do that....I'll explain at the end.  I did this morning.  There are 471 uses of the word BATTERY.  There are over 60 words that start with MAINTAIN.  I ALSO...more carefully, which is what I tell folks to do...but sometimes SKIM...shame on me....the DISCUSSION on Charging.  

BOTTOM LINE.

Todd's 2002 Windsor DID, from the Factory, have FULL BiDirectional of BIRD Charging.  See Page 9-227.  In all fairness, the later manuals used BIRD or DiDirectional terms....and THAT is what I and others that help and pull manual MIGHT look for.  BUT... It DOES Charge the HOUSE while Driving.  It DOES Charge the CHASSIS when on Generator or on AC (Shore) power.  

NOW...Todd has a great Solar system.  He uses it in Dry (no power) storage.  We discussed and when the batteries do NOT NEED charging....and all is WELL....the 100 Amp White Rogers Battery Connect or BOOST Solenoid drops out....as the BIRD (Diesel or Diesel2) module controls it.  SO, the BIRD (Diesel) Module, which is original....WORKS.

He tested the White Rodgers solenoid.  The contacts are GREAT.  There is NO voltage DROP.  OK....BUT NOW THE SURPRISE...It is SUPPOSEDLY a Continuous 12 VDC Solenoid.  YES...WR says so.  Tried googling and looked at many spec sheets, but, you can NOT find the MINIMUM Voltage.  The BIRD Module sends out a Pulsed Band Width or "regulated" signal.  OK...  That means...the voltage is 12 VDC, but the BIRD pulses it so that it is only ON for about 25% or so of the time.  The "Pulse" is sent out...say 25 to 50 times per second.  This is exactly HOW the Injectors work on your car or diesel.  They turn ON and OFF say 35 times every second.  In the ORIGINAL Bosch fuel injectors, used in almost all of the late 80's (the clones as well), that was 50. FACT as I was project Manager to BUILD a Bosch Injector.   NO IDEA, on the BIRD, without a scope, the Hertz or Cycles or Frequency....say 25 times.  That means that the solenoid could see, at 100% ON....the 12 VDC for 40 Milliseconds.  BUT, since this is a REGULATED PULSE and Todd measure the actual VOLTAGE on the coil...it shows up on a DVOM as say around 3.5 VDC.  The ORIGINAL Intellitec tech support guy said 3.0 to 4.5 VDC (read on a meter) was OK.  NOW, for any Dynasty owner....you have a SPECIAL #6 Board that replaces the BIRD Diesel 2...your pulsed or average voltage is higher....around 8 VDC on the meter.

OK....how did I use or understand all the numbers and such.... and what does it MATTER?  GLAD you asked that.  If we divide 3.5 VDC by 12.6 VDC...you get .28 or 28% ON.  NOW if the pulse Hertz is say 35.  You divide 1000 (milliseconds) by 35.  The ON or MAX time is 28.5 Milliseconds.  TO GET 3.5 VDC (on the DVOM), that means that the pulse width or ON time is  28% of 28.6 or 7.2 Milliseconds....and the frequency is 35 TIMES per second.  OK...that means that coil is "EFFECTIVELY" only seeing or has a FULL 12.6 VDC for (35 X 7.2 Milliseconds) or 252 Milliseconds or about 25% of the TIME.  SO, the 12 VDC is on for 25%....and OFF for 75%.  THUS...the voltage on a DVOM is 3.5 VDC.  I KNOW that you are worried about a POP QUIZ....There is NONE.

BOTTOM LINE.  WE DID NOT KNOW that the White Rodgers Solenoid would WORK at this lower or average (3.5VDC) voltage.  SOME Solenoids must have a full 12 VDC.  OK...NOW... for the last piece...I and YOU HOPE...  When the BIRD modules says..  OK... COIL....I'm gonna ENERGIZE YOU....it KNOWS it needs a "2 X 4" to wake up the COIL and get it going.  SO, for a few seconds (how long...read the Intellitec PDF)...say 12 - 15 seconds....it sends out a PURE or continuous 12 VDC Signal PROBABLY PULSED at 100%...but effectively like a DIRECT Non Pulsed signal..  REMEMBER THIS...IT IS IMPORTANT.  Then the Voltage is PULSED down to 3.5 VDC.  THUS, the coil runs COOLER.  Again...SOME solenoids MIGHT NOT WORK with the LOWER Voltage.

OK...WHY is this important....to THOSE of us that have the 200 AMP (most used) PURE Intellitec Solenoid....if we PUT a PURE or 100% 12 VDC and held it on for a minute or so....the coil will start to overhead.  Therefore...on the BIRD  on the Camelot's and the #6 Board on the Dynasty's....the 200 Amp solenoid is always operating at a LOWER voltage.  Now the Dynasty makes more noise and is hotter.  DUH....8 VDC vs 3.5 VDC.  You can NOT hold you hand around the Solenoid...it is THAT HOT...

OK...back to Todd and his 2002 Windsor.  For whatever reason;  Monaco had the Lambert Maintainer as as STOCK or BASE feature......and they sometimes worked or other times did not.  That is very nicely and simply explained on page 9-252.  IT WAS INTENDED for use in DRY storage.  The Lambert (Amp-L-Start or clones) all work the same way.  SOME have more sophisticated...and hopefully MORE RELIABLE... circuits.  BUT, if you had a charged or good HOUSE, the Lambert would steal (they are called THIEVES) voltage.  AND then when the House got too low....as in CANNOT crank the Genny, they would shut down...to keep from draining the House.  In THEORY...GREAT.  Practically....BASED on the comments from over 15 years....marginal.  I talked for a long time....many years ago, to the Plant Manager (maybe Mr. Lambert?) and he explained HOW they worked and the diode circuits and the logic.  BUT, they have and do fail.  Sometimes they quit charging the Chassis.  Sometimes they DRAIN the House. 

OK...Monaco included...as a STANDARD feature a Lambert.  WHY....my GUESS.  That they knew some MH's were in Covered Storage WIHOUT the ability for a Solar to work.  SOLAR was an OPTION....NOT a standard feature.  The BIRD (BiDirectional) and Maintainer WERE.  Have NO idea if the stock 60 Watt Solar, with NO LOAD....would support both...depends on the sun and other factors.

BUT...here's the BOGO from using the KEY WORD SEARCH.... INVERTER is used 146 TIMES.  I learned, and it will help others who have issues, that there IS an ON/OFF switch on the Inverter (Trace).  SO, for SOLAR only Charging, without the Lambert (or such), if you leave ON the HOUSE Switches....then BOTH Batteries will be charged.  By the ON/OFF Switch...being on the Inverter...you can TURN IT OFF...thus the only parasitic drain should be the ECM (ECU) and the Allison Brain. That assumes you don't have any extra goodies hooked up.  I do NOT know if Todd's Victron uses a smidge of parasitic current to keep it "functional".  

NOW a NOTE and a REPEAT to KILL the MYTH for the MAGNUM's.  They do NOT have a HARD SNAP or mechanical ON/OFF switch.  Many will (and have vehemently...unfortunately) stated that you can "TURN IT ALL THE WAY OFF" by pressing the REMOTE BUTTON.  WRONG (Magnum VERIFIED THAT TODAY 5/8).  The MAGNUM is always, (like a Plugged in TV) in STANDBY.  If you unplug a new smart TV...bet it goes into all sorts of gyrations and screens.  IT HAS TO.  But when you push OFF, it goes to black...but the little RED light is ON....so when you push POWER....INSTANT screen...no Startup.  The Magnum works the same way.  TWO techs said...when you push the ON/OFF remote switch...all that does is turn it "off", but it STAYS IN STANDBY.  It will STILL draw up to 3 AMPS (tested my several here)  

NOW...if you really want to TURN IT OFF....and eliminate the Parasitic drain....TWO WAYS.  Push, quickly...no NOT hold the POWER button on the Inverter.  BUT, some folks, per Magnum have difficulty and don't look at the lights.  The EASIST and MOST Reliable method...do the SOFT RESET.  THEN STOP....do NOT power it BACK ON by pushing the POWER button.  Then the draw will be a few milliamps. OK...do NOT fall into the TRAP....turning OFF the 30 Amp breaker is the same as UNPLUGGING from SHORE.  The inverter is STILL in the Standby MODE.  Plug in a phone charger....it works...  SO, if a Magnum owner wants to REMOVE the Parasitic STANDBY LOAD... Do the SOFT RESET.  BUT STOP...do NOT push the POWER BUTTON, which is the last step.  THAT is how it is done...

BOTTOM LINE....the 2002 Windsor was way MORE advanced as was commonly posted here.  It HAD BiDirectional Charging (per the manual and TESTED on a STOCK or unaltered system).  It HAD a Maintainer.  That was FOR NO POWER or SOLAR in storage...but you had to keep the HOUSE charged or periodically charged....otherwise....the Lambert powered OFF (sometimes prematurely...other times when the HOUSE has been drained) and you SHOULD be able to keep the Chassis Charged.

That's it.

YES...TOO LONG...but this is how it works....and also how the current Dynasty and above work.  IF you have a BIRD Module...then odds are...YES...BiDirectional.  NEVER fully understood that.  Richard (Dr4Film) sent me a hand drawn schematic of how his 2004 Windsor worked.  OK....it was similar to mine.

BTW... ONE MORE MYTH.  The GEN SET Terminal on the BIRD really does, on a Monaco....NOTHING.  Many, but not Todd's, came with a signal wire.... I THINK...so Memory...that some 2002 Windsor's came that way.  Richard's did have the Generator signal.  MATERS NOT....the BIRD works with and without it.  DON'T ASK for more.

WOW...if you made it this far.  If you have a PC or Laptop and use the freebie Adobe reader.  Download your manual and save it on your hard drive.  Open it FROM THE HARD DRIVE using Adobe.  In the UPPER right is a FIND box.  Type in any key word...  Battery;   Inverter;  Maintain or whatever and you get a Word Count of how many times used.  If you use the RIGHT ARROW or hit enter...it scrolls through every page with it.

NOW...that also works on SOME of our prints.  Like the OEM Monaco's.  SOME of the Scanned (from the Manual) support it...but some were saved and that option, for whatever reason...BOMBS...of course BATTERY is used.  BUT when it is, and this is a REAL blessing...on a print.  You can find a switch or a term...  Like..  SLIDE.  Every PRINT (assuming it supports the FIND) that has the word SLIDE on it will then allow you to go directly to it.  That, for me, saves a TON OF TIME.

Sorry about the length...but this is the only topic or post, that I think is out here...that discussed this issue.  MIGHT do it in a FILE....too tired now.

Happy troubleshooting and a shoutout to TODD as well as FRANK.  NOW WE KNOW...

50 minutes ago, Steven Schoepke said:

I recently had a problem with my aquahot. My mobile rv mechanic came out, he pulled up my model from their website and followed the  troubleshooting process. It goes step by step, come to find out it was a plugged nozzel. Great website, he said it works great. Hope this helps. 

Steve

You just confirmed what I posted two days or so ago...and what AH always TELLS FOLKS....and what my Tech told me.  Thanks....

Read the post that is about 8 posts UP....

1 hour ago, amphi_sc said:

Is that a picture of yours posted on Sunday morning? The start voltage adjustment knob looks to be way out of calibration to the numbers on the surface if yours is actually starting mid 11's.  Or do those "slots" not have any relationship to the actual settings?  I could reasonably believe Runtime of 2 hrs and Quiet Time 9-6

To clear up a few things....which might not be fully understood...  In the LATER modules...and this impacts the 2012 Dip that was the ORIGINAL failure and probably (most likely)  the Patriot Thunder....and Ben's 2008 Camelot is this way.

When you have a certain level of remote....then the knobs on the AGS are meaningless.  Thus, in the failure case...you could have them randomly set.  When you use the REMOTE and set the AGS parameters...that bypasses all the mechanical or manual programming.  You have to read your MH manual as well as the Manual for your "Rev Level" or version of the remote. 

Thus, tinkering with the knobs on the 2012 does nothing.  NOW..  the TEST BUTTON does work.  BUT, if you want to use the AGS and do the manual programming, you have to DISCONNECT IT...as in PULL the NETWORK cable.  The OTHER cable is the Temp Thermocouple mounted behind the Dometic Thermostat in the interior.

I THINK that you can use it in the manual....or NOT CONNECTED to the REMOTE mode...  BUT, then IF the NETWORK CABLE is connected....it is TOTALLY REMOTE CONTROLLED....

That's the way it works....and Magnum went over this during a troubleshooting.  

I THINK, the even with the NETWORK cable hooked up...  the TEST BUTTON will work.  BUT....IF you use the TEST MODE on the REMOTE....It MIGHT TEST OK...but in reality...it won't work.

OK....A BOGO OR A FREEBIE....IF YOU WANT TO POPERLY USE AND UNDERSTAND YOUR AGS...AND THIS APPLIES TO MAGNUM AND THE 4 KNOB...OR THE NEW AGS-N

NEVER, EVER set the knob nor the Remote setup to lower than 11.7 VDC.  Folks have different opinions...so this is the STRAIGHT SKINNY from Magnum.  Magnum says that what I am about to post is TOO COMPLICATED to put in their manual...and the average owner's eyes would glaze over.  THIS is covered in the BATTERY 101 and the Magnum Setup Files that I wrote...and can be downloaded.

Magnum does NOT guarantee but +/- 10% ACCURACY for the Volt Reading on the Remote.  IT IS IN THE SPECS.

SO, you MUST know the Correlation between the actual VOM Battery Voltage and what Magnum remote displays.  Mine is about 0.15 - 0.20 VDC LOWER on the remote than on the SCREEN.  BUT, the screen value is what drives the AGS...

NOW....when your batteries are running down....and you have them under load....if you measure the Battery voltage....and record the Remote.  That is MY ERROR.  Magnum said it is NORMAL.

Next up.  When a battery is under a normal load, you can read the voltage.  BUT, if you remove the load... then let the battery rest and recover....the voltage will return or recover or POP BACK.  Many phone calls to Trojan and this is a FACT.

SO...if you don't want to get under the theoretical 50% State of Charge (SOC)...  Then most folks will set the Remote to 12.0 VDC.  In reality....they are SHORT CYLING or starting the AGS when their batteries are at perhaps 65 to 70% SOC.  WAY TOO HIGH.  

OK...let that sink in...and again....Trojan and Magnum were my "sources" or the "SHELL ANSWER" man and they BOTH confirmed these two factoids.

It is SAFE to set the Magnum to say 11.8 or so....maybe 11.7 FOR THE AGS Start Voltage.  THAT gets the batteries drained lower.  Magnum says that they don't know HOW bad the batteries are.  IF you do the load tests...and some have, as I did...then knowing the correlation of the voltage readings...  11.8 is safe.  SOME SAY...11.9.  Still to high for me.  BUT, arbitrarily...without understanding HOW the Magnum AGS works and where it gets is signal and also how a battery works....will shorten the life of your batteries.  OK..  every once and a while.  NO ISSUES.  

BUT, if you use the AGS more than a few times each season...or if you really, as you SHOULD, let your batteries drain, under load to 50%, then use 11.8 VDC.

THAT has a second advantage.  By letting your MH actually EXERCISE and discharge or run down your House Bank to a 50% SOC, you do NOT need to do the 3 - 6 months DISCHARGE (3 cycles) that Trojan recommends.  We have members, me included, that get 8 or so longer YEARS from our Trojans buy doing the Preventative Maintenance DISCHARGING.  We use Battery Miser caps so the electrolyte (actually the Distilled Water) does not boil off and is recovered). We rarely add an ounce to each cell.  We load test and our batteries are at 95 - 100% GOOD AS NEW...as in the SOC Specific Gravity and Voltage charge shows that.

THAT is the lesson for today....

1 hour ago, Steven 53 said:

Well went to compound it get mh. Zipped tied relays to secure so no movement turned on headlights flip h/l several times started mh let it air to ride hight pulled headlight switch no blue light high beam shut down mh went to fuse box and fuse was blown. Relays fuses were fine probably smart wheel is the problem. Might do work around for switch to relays to try that just Might be my fix for now. 

OK...Steve and I talked.  To summarize...  He has has issues in the past.

He can replace the MAIN Headlight Fuse...that 25 A drives or sends switched power via the Main Headlight Relay.  

He can put in a new fuse.  ALL IS WELL.  BUT, the moment he starts the engine....blows the 25 Amp fuse.

Please look at this print...posted before.

We have had ONE instance....or maybe two.  A VIP Wheel MH had a Relay in the Daytime Running Lights socket.  For WHATEVER REASON.  That killed the MAIN Power Fuse.  Did NOT kill the 15 Amp fuse going to the VIP and the Headlight switch.  

NOTE...that the Headlight Relay gets its COIL power from the Headlight DRIVER Relay below.

OK....bear with me and this is more of a WHAT IF than a pure analysis.  Notice that there is a 15 Amp fuse providing power to the light switch as well as the VIP controller.  Therefore you can send a signal or power UP to the input of the Headlight Relay....and that 15 Amps would briefly power the headlights or the clearance lights and such.  If there is a dead short somewhere in the controller and that power line is shorted....100% when engine is running.  BINGO...it also backfeeds the headlight 25 Amp fuse.

AGAIN...I'm just trying to wrap my head around it...so if anyone has more knowledge...please jump in here.  

Steve needs HEADLIGHTS.  The temporary work around.  He removes the output (Terminal 30) from the Headlight Relay.  He attaches a fused (5 A) HOT Chassis lead to it.  NOW, he has power to the HI/LO switch.  His LOW beams will come on.  He can switch to HIGHT.  He will test...  

THEN start the engine....and pull out the headlight switch to PARK.  REMEMBER....when he blows the 25 Amp fuse....the parking and clearance lights STILL WORK....

SO, he installs a simple home light switch in a handy box....double stick taped to a convenient location.  When he drives at night....he turns ON the headlights like one would do "aux" driving lights.  The control circuit is now hot to the HI/LO and he can dim and drive.

I THINK this will work.  Steve is on board and will test.

ANY IDEAS WHERE the Ignition ON or RUNNING "GROUND" signal is coming from?

Headlights and Fog lights.pdf

From a Moderator's standpoint, it is suggested that the back and forth for information and such an exchanging phones be done in a PM.  That keeps this from being cluttered.  Once the issue is resolved, then post what happened. There appears to be three members involved...but I may be wrong.  One PM from either one to the other two and then the issue can be resolved or exchange phone numbers...

From MEMORY.... We have a person who has a relative that works for is affiliated with Louisville Engineering.  Many folks have used Louisville Engineering for remanufactured or refurbished AH boards.  They have been a good tech source and, in one case, they actually supplied a harness and relays to isolate a circuit as the particular coach had a "GEE...WHAT IS THIS?" issue.  ONE zone, when the Dometic simply "CALLED" for heat and closed the "DRY CONTACTS" on the Aquahot board....would short out the board.  The board always "shorted" in the same exact place...and it was on the PUMP circuit.  That is a "TRACE" circuit from the main point on the board that is activated when the wires are "connected"....as in the Thermostat and the Control Module is calling for heat.  We traced the circuits and measured and such.  There was NO STRAY voltages or such coming the Control Module.  In fact, when the thermostat or ON/OFF leads were shorted...or tested with a jumper....it happened.  Then  it got funky.  The owner had an Ebay pump....which might NOT have been the CORRECT wattage...so maybe the short was an overload.  BUT, Louisville Engineering designed an isolation harness so that the power for the zone came from a separate fused feed and the circuits were isolated and if there was an accidental ground in the control leads....the ON/OFF was totally in ONE circuit.

SO, Louisville has had some good feedback.

Hope you guys sort through how to get a tester and what Louisville does and can and cannot do.  THEN let us know.  A phone call save a lot of posting and typing.

Thanks for understanding...

52 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Well I just finished another project.  Of the one master and 5 slave plus 2 spare slave modules, only one slave tested bad.  A circuit board from one of the spare slave modules was reprogrammed to replace the bad one.  Steve also wanted the window shade option programmed into a module that had a blank slot.  Also made up a few missing cables and sent spare connectors and crimp pins to repair other damaged connectors.  The set of working modules was sent to Steve today.

YES,

Frank is obviously the SKILLED tech on the K'Berg system.  I have seen other pictures that he texted me of his "RIGS".  From my warped sense of humor viewpoint... I had the thought that if I looked hard enough, we could see the ghost of Steve Jobs and perhaps a flashback with Bill Gates....as they BOTH did their tinkering in a garage or their dorm room.  The ability to figure out complex electronics and resolve seemingly impossible things lives on...

We once had a member who's job it was to "FIGURE OUT" why a high priced (think hundreds of thousands of the Defense Department Funds) board "FAILED" and what the company had to do to prevent a reoccurrence.  These boards were from God only knows how many different products that one of the MAJOR (maybe largest) Defense Contractors in the US.  This individual was one of a team of Ex Military Techs that were hired locally by this company.  When the DoD would return a failed board....say, they were testing a new version of a Tomahawk missile...and there was more electronics on it that K'Berg ever dreamt.  The DoD wanted it analyzed.  The Designer had to write up a corrective action program to ensure that the next time they pushed the FIRE button....the missile launched.  The EE-PhD's that designed them KNEW the circuits.  However, they (er SOME...not all...but MOST) were somewhat less than well versed when it came to actually building their creations.  They specified all the component and the circuits.  THEN, the PCB Guru's had to design the board and then figure out HOW to build it.  SOME of these were HAND BUILT... Some were high demand...so there was a small automated or semi-automated assembly line.

BUT...when it FAILED....it went to the "SKUNK WORKS" in the basement.  These folks had to examine it with microscopes and figure out if there were cracks or open circuits in the traces....or whether a capacitor failed and started the chain reaction.  Our Ex Member was a whiz at this...but he said he and his buddies suffered from "BRAIN BURN OUT"...and the circuits were so complex... 

Every time I see one of Frank's "projects"... I think about my friend, who we often call or email and his job after his service..  It takes a special skill and Frank's spans the Theoretical or Design....down to the BOARD....something that is RARE.

We are lucky to have him. He also helps me learn so that I can assist others without his guidance....and for that I am eternally grateful.

FINAL comment.  I have a "control" issue with my well and residential pump and also an upgraded (now required) pressure switch and the "bypass and refresh" loop installed by my friend, a Professional Geologist that works on large cities wells and is one of the experts well known in the South East. Finally, I designed a simple relay controlled solenoid system that will resolve DW's "we ain't got any pressure".  She said...  Now THAT is brilliant.....wire it up and get it running.  I took that opportunity to tell her that the knowledge that I gained here....even though I had done all sorts of process control and was also an EE for 2 years....the PRACTICAL here.... was what helped me simplify the final version....and make it work.

So, much of the electrical and electronics advice that is given is thanks to Frank and also the input of others....and we are blessed to have him....along with others... Paul Whittle, for example, that are well versed in the Intellitec MPX control systems in all Dynasties (Circa 2006) and above....

GREAT JOB...as usual...

20 hours ago, jimtaylorville said:

Front door steps, when opening front door appear to attempt opening but don't move. Orange light comes on, and you can see the motor engaging the gear, moving it slightly.  Closing the door,  motor reverses, gear moves very slightly,  motor stops, light goes off. I am assuming controller good. I oiled all pivot points and tapped with hammer. I see 4 screws to remove step, 2 however recessed over step between step and inside step, tough to reach.  Is step binding,  motor bad, or possibly bad controller? 15 year old coach,  purchase new steps? Thanks for your assistance!

ODDS ARE…bad motor.  Mine failed (same year as yours) in a similar manner.  Would start to move or such….but never locked in.  Whether it starts to move and only a little or moves almost to full opening, but stops…. It is a SAFETY HAZARD. Mine “looked” OK, until my 100 pound 16 YO GD stepped and the steps collapsed and retracted.  She was able to catch herself and did not fall….her 75 YO GM might not have been so lucky. The motor is designed to go full cycle.

NOW…there is a “current limiting” citcuit.  I think that is in the motor….and not the controller.

There is a very simple….but “often not used….until new parts lime a controller is replaced….and nothing changed….” Coachstep or Lippert Coachstep trouble shooting guide.  You do not have to remove the step….just follow the simple “instructions”.

Follow the instructions in the troubleshooting guide or section at the end.

You do NOT have to drop the step to install a motor.  It ain’t the easiest task…but 90% or more do it.  The techs do it. The only caveat…a new motor, which can be purchased many places and from many “offshore” vendors will have to be CAREFULLY positioned. I ordered a “stickered” OEM motor from ebay.  The three hole bosses or the 3 holes where the bolts go through the motor and then screw into the frame….were “off”. I gave up. CW down the road had a “Stromberg Carlson” OEM motor for $20 more and I paid $75 for the labor….

SOME have carefully drilled out or used a circular file to open up the holes.  Just don’t go in there and drill them to say “1/4”.  The motor is supposed to be rigidity mounted. If you open them up so there is say 1/8” clearance in every hole…the motor is gonna shift or move.  You take it slow and get it to barely fit.  Mine had two holes that perfectly aligned… always the same one.  I would have carefully opened that hole (it is a zinc die cast housing….easy to file off a little)…until the screw engaged the frame. It was 100 degrees….could have been a small burr in that hole,

NOW do NOT USE THE STEP.  Assuming you have lubricated the pivot points and have lubed the “rack”.  Everyone has their pet spray.  The Boeshield is the darling of the “bikers” or cyclist…. Triflow is the darling of shooters….and professional locksmiths. 

If there is rust and corrosion on the pivot bolts or points, then Liquid wrench works well.  Many here have a witches brew that they swear by.  As long as it was working snd moving slightly…a Liquid wrench would be my choice…. But later on …a good lube.  WD40 will also work.  But LW and WD40 are not “leave in place” lubes…they clean…and free up.  The Boeshield and Triflow are not penetrants…they lube. The “bikers” say that the Boeshield is “stickier” than Triflow…and one does NOT want a sticky lube used in a firearm’s action.

I use garage door spray on the rack and the pivot points….

JUST QUIT USING IT…until you determine the cause.  Rarely, very rarely, is it anything but a motor or a little rusted pivots….so it is easily repaired.

22 hours ago, Georgia Mike said:

Rob, I have the same unit as you. My Aqua hot has been working perfectly since I bought my Coach 3 years ago until a few weeks ago. It would go through the start up cycle but wouldn’t fire and after a few minutes would shut down. I think my control board is starting to go bad because after checking things and trying to run it multiple times over a few days I shut all power off to it to do a reset and now it’s been working fine. Louisville engineering on eBay sells a test box that will isolate most problems on the Aquahot and I think I’m going to get one but they are a little pricey. Good luck with your trouble shooting, hope you get it figured out.

This is a classic sign of the nozzle being gummed up or the filter clogged.  Mine will run 2 years or so,…then…NOPE. The standard service is to replace the Nozzle and the filter and to adjust the “burner” or reposition it.

I would not start to chase anything….until I has that done or watched a video and did that myself. Then, read the manual or find a video and start to troubleshoot the startup cycle as well as some of the common failure items.

3 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

@Tom Cherry

Yes, my 06 Dynasty is completely different. There are currently two Dometic 5 Button CCC's which do ALL of the heating & cooling controls for the coach. The rear AC is a newer Penguin II but they installed a converter board into it so it would be compatible with the 5 Button CCC. I have the new board tucked away which will go back in when the other two AC's get updated to Penguin II's.

The rear CCC controls all of the functions for the Rear AC and the Middle AC. The Front AC has its own 5 Button CCC.

When the time comes I will eventually upgrade to Micro-Air Thermostats once all of the AC's are the same.

Sounds like a plan to me.  You got it.

My approach would be the same for my Camelot….except…one dead soldier….NEW ARMY.

Now….this is MY OPINION….and my circumstances and my “skill set”. I am going to pay my trusted tech to do it….I could do it…but I fix things that are more complex and don’t have anyone to help with the toting and lifting…..or a good helper.

NOW….having said that…I know a lot more about the ins ans out and MPX “uniqueness” than he probably does.  I know that if trouble occurs….and Imhave the complete Dometic package, the Dometic dealer tech support will assist him.

IF there was a “BLACK BOX” tester that one could hook up on an install and then get idiot lights or whatever….that the RJ Data Cable to the thermostat is “working”….and he had one….then i MIGHT consider the MicroAir.  Since I have personally talked to tech support at Dometic, MicroAir….and also Coleman to see about making a RecPro work…. I don’t want to have to start changing control modules and such.

My ONLY criticism of MicroAir….other than not knowing the reliability of their units.  Their design engineers know way LESS about how a Dometic system works than most who read and learn here.  They just “tore apart” the 5 button and 10 button and fed it data on a bench and then cloned the functions.  They have NARY a clue as to what happens on the other end….all they know is how to send a coded signal.  NOW…maybe, like Frank did for the Kong’b….the circuit designers bought the control modules and breadboarded up a system.  OK….that’s how they did it,

BUT…the two techs….in 2 separate phone calls said….we do not “understand” how the MPX works.  We know that our units, regardless of type or vendors, will interchange.  We do NOT, at our level, know how nor will we trouble shoot.  The requirements are that the owner must have a reliable and functional downstream system….or in your case….a Dometic system…. CC CCC or CCC2.  Thanks for calling.

We have already had issues where the folks here fixed or identified the issue….a bad Controller and MicroAir was clueless….but would ship a replacement…. Sort or like you having a big hole in an aluminum wheel…tire will not hold air.  You don’t know it.  The tire shop gives you a new tire….but don’t know how to test.  YES…my warped logic….but, if it is all Dometic….no finger pointing and a source for fixing.  Maybe a tech might…but techs seemed to be “stumped” more and more and don’t want to work on our legacy units.

I watched a tech use a laptop and install some gee whiz complex upgrade to a high dollar rig.  He knew it all or was on the phone and ran the diagnostic.

BUT…asked a question about a simple amps and volts issue on a hydraulic unit…said….you need a new unit….we don’t really troubleshoot… Mobile techs are the same.  Been in caravans and the techs installed new parts until it worked…

MY OPINION….others will differ…

3 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

@Tom Cherry

I can speak for my previous 2002 Windsor (which is now owned by @Lenny D) but it may not be the same for all 2002 Windsors as mine has the Aqua-Hot System.

My AC control is located in the bedroom with Zone 1 being the rear bedroom AC area and Zone 2 being the front Living area AC. The data cable runs from the Thermostat to the rear AC first then is daisy-chained to the front AC where it stops. I never searched where the 12 VDC comes from but it has to be either from the front or rear AC wiring. There are a bunch of wires stuffed into that opening both in the front and rear.

The Dometic AC Thermostat does NOT control any of the Aqua-Hot zones. The AH has three different zones all with their own separate thermostats, one in the bedroom, one in the bathroom and a third in the hallway near the kitchen.

Now @jacwjames also has a 2002 Windsor but does not have the Aqua-Hot so his could very well be wired differently.

Well NOW….isn’t that interesting….here is my take on it.  And you might have just offered a good insight….

OK…your PREVIOUS Windsor,  Myron has stated…..and he is a great tech….no 12 VDC to rear.  Comes in on the front.  The control module distributed the 12 VDC back to the thermostat.  It also sent it the other way to the rear.  Maybe…pure speculation….Monaco used the ONE WIRE 12 VDC feed.  That is all, and this has been tested, that is needed.  It also squares with the installation instructions.  It works.  Myron is right.  If you LOST the 12 VDC pair in the Data Communications Cable….then, you would lose the unit.  NOW…run a hot wire or 12 VDC to the rear.  First….reset to factory…..get an FF.  At that point, then the OTHER 2 pair is running the MPX.  Since the rear has 12 VDC….then a faulty data cable (open in the 12 VDC) will work….but only if the MPX pair is OK.  That is how I UNDERSTAND and from the manuals and also folks here and helping troubleshoot.

NOW…as to the PREVIOUS Aquahot in your Windsor.  My “knowledge base” is for a model or two newer…but if I assume that the control boards look similar…maube not as many zones, but similar, Richard, to your 06 Dynasty…here is how it would (should have worked).  Each individual thermostat was only an ON/OFF unit.  Totally MECHANICAL….not powered.  When the temp dropped below the set point….say set was 70 and it dropped to 67, the mercury containing bulb, had two WIRES in the “drop” or mercury.  Same as turning on a wall switch,  the thermostat was “calling” for heat.  Once the temp hit 70….the mercury in the thermostat only had ONE wire….in it.  Like turning off a light switch.  The newer AH boards have TWO Terminals or WIRES for a “thermostat” connection.  There is NO DC or whatever.  Use a paperclip and jumper….the pump starts and the blower (for that zone) starts.  

Fast forward to your 2006 Dynasty.  I’m…SPECULATING….Monaco eventually did do the belt and suspenders….and ran 12 VDC to every AC control module.  Why Frank’s Dynasty had none???  Ask the engineer.  The PRINT does not show it….I think….and it ain’t there.  I don’t have my laptop on vacation so the 25 sets of model year wiring diagrams I downloaded aren’t with me….I’m on my IPAD.

OK…Richard, here is how your system works….I will NOT go down the hidden controller or ZONE 4.  BUT…. If you have TWO thermostats or one….it works this way.  Each Zone controller has a FURNACE DIP switch.  If one ZONE or any ZONE shows FURNACE or HEAT….that controller’s DIP is CLOSED…..that is how it works.  If you had the NO AQUAHOT version.l..there is a front and rear furnace,  the Front zone has HEAT/FURNACE.  The controller closes a dry set of wires….they run to a furnace control board…like a light switch…it comes on,

In your case, wherever or whatever ZONES has a HEAT or FURNACE option….there is ONE pair of wires going to a particular zone on the AH control panel.  As I said…jumper those two screws…paperclip….the pump and fan come on.

In the 07 Dyansty and up….Monaco added a “hidden Module”.  In the owner’s manual….there is a chart that shows the zone numbers….which thermostat….if dual and which zone where the heat works.  The MIDDLE ZONE, on the 07 & higher….have a special ZONE for AquaHot or HEAT.  There is a standalone controller….when you set whichever zone for the middle to HEAT….the hidden controller….with a remote temp sensor….takes over and turns ON or OFF the circuit for heat.

That is the way it is wired…..they way it works.

NOW…Frank and I helped a very astute tech that had installed his own new Dometic units and the Dometic CCC2 thermostat(s….may have been two).  He had NO AC in the middle.  Finally, we got an update.  He had some how “pushed or tucked” the two outgoing wires to the AH under something or whatever.  He communicated that it WORKED before….not NOW.  Had to be a DOMETIC problem.  He “lost” the AH wires.  He insisted….MONACO left them out.  Now…there is NO WAY it would have worked before….  In his install, he lost them….and did it up right…but was also extremely confident….he made no mistakes.  After a while….he went back….maybe to try to “PULL” the wires that Monaco forgot.  OPPS….he had buried them….hooked them up.  NOW IT WORKS.

That is NOT uncommon….techs do it…novices do it…I’ve lost a wire….we all can “do it”.  But….if you rely on the prints….and it worked before….it has to be operator error.

This is a simple or complex system,…based on your skill and experience.  Our goal, as moderators….help folks understand….and that is what Daniel is starting to absorb. I think it took me at least 3 years just to begin to learn about the MPX and I had installed Home systems and troubleshot….now, I learn or confirm, from each topic…

NEVER KNEW that the 2002 AH had separate Heat Thermostats….THANKS!,
 

On 5/3/2024 at 10:03 PM, MyronTruex said:

Remember, just because a fuse looks good, you need to measure voltage on each end while it is in circuit. Check your bedroom fuse panel with a voltmeter.

I discussed my two unit system. The front is the zone 1 on mine. There is 12 volts fed to the molex pin on it. There is NOT 12 volts fed to the rear molex plug on AC zone 2.  There is 12 volts on the blue wires on both of the AC units. This feeds my furnaces.

The 12 volts goes through the molex, into the RJ plug, into the AC control board and there it supplies power though the 3 amp as far as I can tell. If the 3 amp fuse is popped, the thermostat is dead. Does not light up.

Taking the thermostat in hand to the rear one and plugging it in directly it did not light up. I found there was no voltage on that 3 amp fuse in AC unit 2 without the RJ cable bringing voltage to it. So there is no voltage getting to the circuitry needed in my rear one. Until the RJ cable feeds it. So in order to operate my rear ac in an emergency I would have to run power to that molex plug to get the thermostat to power up.

Hope this is clear and simple. 

IF your front AC is the first in line, it needs 12 volts. Until you get that voltage there you are spinning your wheels. 

 

Good point.  Monaco was usually consistent….but also sometimes NOT.  Most of the prints I pull for the 12 VDC and AC and the Data Communications connections will have 12 VDC to every control module or the “AC Board” as Dometic calls it.  Frank showed me the NOTE in the “installation” verbiage…only ONE control module needs 12 VDC.  So, Monaco gets an attaboy for redundancy.  But Frank’s 2008 hidden controller for zone 4 that supplies the middle section heat violates that redundancy.  NO 12 VDC….gets it from the Data Communications Cable run.  Go figure….always use the prints….but verify…. 

Myron, have you found or looked at the print for the 2002 Windsor.  Again. I fall into the trap of thinking that all were done the same….as in the 12VDC was a hard and fast rule to every HVAC unit….

 i have not got a good, I think, 2002 Print for it.  Never saw it in the scanned manuals….so I use others or go up and down a year.  That would be good to know. You are spot on. If Monaco cheated or if some assembler didn’t hook up or pulled the wrong cable and you don’t have the usual 12 VDC line….like to the front….problems. Unfortunately some of the “supposed to be there” wires got lost in the run.  This would not be the first time that a MUST BE HERE wire was not….we have seen this, unfortunately, too many times before….

Thanks,

OK…a side note.  Monaco did get cheap.  The Intellitec EMS HVAC Relays were SUPPOSED to switch ON and OFF the 12 VDC to every HVAC.  That is the way it was designed.  Monaco would NOT run the 12 VDC from the EMS Board….don’t ask….nobody knows. BUT then they uses the low voltage switching relays for a pure..FLA AC Current method.  Ever wonder why the EMS Boards fail??  YES, supposedly from the original owners that talked to to the engineers at rallies and shows and to the techs at the warranty centers.  Monaco knew FULL well that the 12 VDC was supposed to be switched.  OPPS….the Dometic systems were ever designed for using SWITCHED 12 VDC.  Run power to one….they all got it.  My only supposition was that each HVAC unit would have had to have a separate 12 VDC relay.  Thus the EMS would energize or kill the 12 VDC.  But then the positive from the data communications cable would have to have been “cut” for every HVAC unit….and fed or abandoned.  Then the 12 VDC going to each control module would have come through each relay…. Talk about a major abortion.

The OTHER solution….run a second 12 VDC line to each HVAC unit.  Put a 12 VDC coil on a relay rated for 20A FLA.  or maybe higher as the start up current would hit the mid 20”s.  The Thermostat on most home systems turn on 220 VAC…but the control board are not ON..  so, in this case….maybe a 30A FLA contact rating.  Then the EMS would shed properly and the HVAC relays were running at fhe right voltage and load.

NEVER HAPPENED….very few know this….and we often have folks that have that “AHA” moment when they source a relay and fix an Intellitec EMS. A case where the MPX control was NOT suited for the EMS and Monaco cheated….now you know….if you read this far and care….folks usually don’t until the EMS board fails…..

4 hours ago, vipeboy2000 said:

In the wardrobe.  One I had pulled out to test and check earlier but i swear it wasn't burned then ha.  F5 ot f6 I think marked as bedroom ceiling fan.  

Remember….good ole Monaco never marked, at least on the folks I have helped, the fuse to the Control Boards or “AC Board/Panel as HVAC.  Satellite…ceiling fan…you name it. Unfortunately on the Dynasty prints, you have to check mating connector prints and look for HVAC such…then….you start to trace that particular “PIN” or pins…once you find that print…then you follow that harness to where it mates up or is hooked up and then get the fuse number.

NOW….that is true for Camelot’s and Dynasties.  The Wire is easy to trace on the Camelot (and Diplomats and such),  Dynasty uses the pin and connector logic and not a pure “schematic”.  Older Dynasties and Windsors and such MAY have conventional schematics.  There was two GROUPS or schools in Monaco….and you never knew WHICH “format” or convention or system that was used.  For those like me that works with tracing a wire….my prints are fine.  Others that understand the connectors and pin and how to trace find the Dynasty easy to work with….the Dynasty challenges me….but I am learning….

There are actually TWO versions of crimpers on Amazon.  ONE is a full sized unit….it will work on #16 wires.  The other is for “big stuff” like what we typically have with #9 through 4/0 cables & BIGGER!. You can do #10 with a nIce hand held RATCHETING crimper.  Thats a whole lot MORE hand strength for anything larger.

There is a chart that gives you the MM of the dies and usually the wire size. You select the wire size.  Cut off the cable….carefully cut off the insulation.  Then do a little tiding up to get all the itty bitty wires stuffed into the terminal….sometimes you trim off a few.  You close the dies until the edges are mating…as in….the die set has NO Crack or opening between the halves.  Done.

Mine is 8 years old. Amazon dropped it.  This one has over 2000 ratings.  I use that as my buying guide.  If I were an electrician or ran a welding supply shop, I’d buy a name brand…say Klein,  I’d spend maybe 5 to 8 times as much.  Don’t need that PRO level for what I do.  I find the higher rated Amazon “stuff” to be more reliable and better made than “Harbor Freight”.  NOT always the case….but for this particular tool, I followed the advice given off line and bought the highest rated crimper in that price range.

Northern Tool may have them.

3 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Thanks, Ben. it appears that your AGS setup is different than mine. My AGS-N module is mounted near the Inverter on the ceiling wall in the the very rear pass-thru storage bay. I removed the standard 5-knob AGS module and installed the Magnum AGS-N module which uses all of the very same wires. I made sure to insert the wires in the very same order as they were with the normal 5-knob module.

I guess I will need to probe as you say "the third wire from the left" to see if it is attached to the chassis battery bank or the house battery bank. I have no idea as the wire loom goes into a mass of wires into the ceiling.

Richard,

PM @Frank McElroy.  He actually improved how his AGS was wired.  He has a 2008 Dynasty.  Wiring is identical.  Monaco was NOT always the smartest.  Our Camelots start the Genny from the HOUSE…Not like yours.

As to Ben’s….they used a wrong harness (one for the DYNASTY)  or someone was stupid or sloppy…. 

1 hour ago, 2003 Dynasty said:

I converted to a residential frig.  What is the purpose for blocking off that vent?  Seems as if the airflow would help keep the rear of the frig cooler and thus the coils cooler.  Thanks.

The new residential refrigerators will malfunction and shut down if the temperature outside drops into the low 30’s or so.  When the conversion was done, ALL the insulation around the gas refrigerator or on the walls should have been removed.  It was there to protect the interior from carbon monoxide poisoning…PRIMARY reason.

You insulate the roof vent from the top.  Use batts or whatever to close it off.  You insulate the cover…cut foam wedges and use HVAC and Duct tape. You insulate the louvers in the frame…if there are open spaces.

The insulation around the old gas unit kept you from loosing the heated for cooled air as well. Leaving the cover open and the vent (roof) open is like opening a window on one side and opening a window on the other….  Think about how that would impact the HVAC or furnace systems.

The side walls and top and under the residential refrigerator needs AIR FLOW.  That is why you do NOT need insulation.  Many home refrigerators are next to a wall and have a cabinet on the other side.  They work fine.

This is the way that NOW, the OEM refrigerator comes from the factory.  I had mine installed in the mountains of NC.  The first night, it dropped to 28.  Shut OFF.  The Samsung “locks up” . It does NOT cool.  Have to unplug…wait a few minutes….plug back in.  A few hours later….OFF.  Nursed it through the night. Worked fine during the day.  Got home.  Insulated the top (have a side vent…not a roof….same deal).  Insulated the back lower vent. Called Samsung and they sent out a REAL FACTORY Samsung tech. He laughed. Folks put the newer Energy Star refrigerators on back porches or in garages.  He says when it gets cold….they quit.  Does about 10 them in the fall.  That was 7 years ago.  Have used the MH for about 6 months out….and in some cold temps….and heat. No issues.

Now, if you want a freezer for the garage or back porch, you have to order an “all weather” or COLD weather model.  Lowes in the mountains of NC always stock them.  They are NOT the same as the normal freezers….price we pay for uograding the eddiciency. The compressors don’t run at extreme temps and are designed for INDOOR normal ambient temperatures.

INSULATE….

11 minutes ago, Jlalpaugh said:

My 2008 Monaco Cayman will not start. Both house and chassis batteries are full. (Generator starts). When I turn the key all dash lights come on, flicker, gauges look like they are going to fire up….no sound. Nothing. At the same time this started my steps won’t go out when the door opens. Are these related? 

You have dead Chassis Batteries.  The Generator starts off the House.  The steps work off the House.  Read the manual.  WitH Generator RUNNING….Hold on the BOOST switch for what the Manual says.  You repeat this process.  You need to put a surface charge on the Chassis.  NO JOY using the Boost switch like the manual says…..look in the index. May be in section 9. 

IF you have a Booster or Jumper cable.  You can jumper or connect the Positive HOUSE to the CHASSIS House. TURN OFF each battery bank switch with the battery disconnect switches.  Hook up the jumper cable beware the positives.  Turn ON BOTH Battery banks at the disconnect switches. Start the Generator. Let it run maybe 30 minutes.  This is charging the Chassis.  Then, with the generator RUNNING…..start the MH.  Should start. Let it and generator run for maybe 30 minutes.  Stop engine. Turn OFF BOTH Disconnects.  Remove the jumper cable.  You should be OK….and engine should start.

Great followups…..comment and history..

There are TWO AGS’s. The original 4 KNOB AGS was what came on my 2009 Camelot.  That AGS, per Magnum, was not their best effort….

Mine died circa 2012.  Magnum DID, for a brief time, offer a “Repair”.  That repair was the replacement of a relay or “refurbishment” of the 4 Knob AGS.  There was an “unofficial” extension of the warranty.  The cost was, per the tech, around $75.  However the demand exceeded the bench time of the warranty techs.  It was eventually discontinued….so mine was “past” even the special circumstances.

The issue was, 95%, a failed relay.  And even if repaired….it MIGHT happen again.  The techs and electronics designers conceded it was a bad design.  SO…mine sat for a while.  Eventually, I piggy backed it under extended warranty and got a new one,

The tech told me that the NEW AGS-N had been tested….abused….and it was a solid device.  Mine has been used sparingly, but works great.  It is a Plug and Play and easy to install.

Ben’s issue was a Monaco GOOF…and not Magnum. To put in perspective, there has NOT been a massive failure.  Many folks are still using the 4 Knob AGS.  It appeared to be somewhat sporadic….maybe a vendor’s lot that impacted a certain time period.  BUT, Magnum realized they had “overtaxed” the 3 relay design…making it more susceptible to failure….and the new N was a totally different logic and circut and they eliminated the fatal flaw.

That’s what I was told and I sort of “tried” on a few occasions to find a sympathetic tech and hoped he would let me use the “extended warranty” and the explanation was consistent….

OK….CONTACTS….many do not know that Magnum makes a “Auxiliary” start device or pigtail.  You order it…overpriced…but $15.  You unplug the thermocouple input into the AGS.  Then, you select AUXILIARY and use that setup (remote).  If you have a switch or a device that will close or make a circuit across the leads….same as the TEMP going up.  That starts the AGS cycle.  Once started, the programming parameter for RUN TIME is activated and it runs that length.

NOW…..if the contacts are closed….still….after the run time has timed out…BINGO….cycle is repeated….the Genny restarts.

I had a need to run the Genny during an idiotic split NON QUIET time schedule in a National Park.  We left early….stayed late.  I used a programmable 24/7 timer.  The contacts would CLOSE or make the circuit at 9:00 and stay closed for 15 minutes.  The genny would run for 2 hours.

At 4:00….repeat….15 mintues of CLOSED got me 2 Hours of Genny.  Nary a flaw.  I plugged back in thd thermocouple….and still have the timer.

That’s what I know and was told and also figured out HOW to accomplish my unusual need for genny….in a more or easier programmable manner.

let us know if the older AGS is easy to fix.  This was NOT a widespread issue…..so take it at face value from Magnum…

Comments on, I assume, the “Shoreline” reels, commonly used.

NO POWER.  Most of those issues were traced back to “operator error”.  Primarily folks that spent time, a lot of it, in one location.  If you pull out the cord and leave it in that position for several months, possibly load dependent, the contacts on the “power circles” or where each contact rubs, will arc and eventually cause a high resistance.  Folks have solved this by routinely powering in the cord and then pulling it back out in a random location.  If there was a shorting or intermittent issue, then, most will repeat the IN & OUT quickly maybe 5 or so times.  The contacts (spring loaded) will burnish and sort of self clean the concentric circular copper/bronze contact rings.  

Drive mechanism issues.  Somewhere in my brain, I remember that a machine shop or individual made a new drive gear.  Googoing a bit….I ran across this.

if the link breaks…EBAY.  Shoreline parts.  And you will find it,  yes….expensive…but one has to decide how to fix. YES…removal is a PITA.  It IS accessible, on the Camelots from inside the closet or the side wall.  However, you must drop or raise the flex air intake hose (from the rear cap upper corner).  Not that bad.  You can also do the needed PM on the hose where most were nicked or had minor slits.  A couple of rounds of Gorilla tape (clean the hose) works great….10+ years…and perfect.  Monaco had more jagged corners and brackets so nicking was easy.  This exposes the MAIN Junction Box.  Always remember to do that very 5 or so years.  The connections loosen….trust me.

THEN….to Richard’s observations.  Yes the Dynasty ones with the “rubber wheel drive on the cord” is much nicer.  Can you retro fit?  Don’t think so. They are NOT CHEAP per a member’s post.

YES, you can run a short length of SealTite or plastic flex conduit and put in a Camco 50 A male. IF I did that…I’d keep a blank Female (no wires) over it.  I do NOT think that an ATS will malfunction… but having the possibility where exposed MALE prongs are….spooks me, Then, you salvage the cord…NOW, also replace the MALE end.  These are getting older and banging around, even lightly, has lead to power issue….especially the high cost (over $10K) Open Neutral.  Then you coil up the old cord…and go manual.

OTHERS probably have some more to add, but this is the gist or history of the past problems…

Thanks for the link on repairs….I KNOW that several have done this….maybe they will chime in…

EDIT and UPDATE.  Was watching a video and the YouTuber rebuilt the motor.  My windings were toast.  However if you look at the screen shot, it is a GREAT show and tell.  Notice the stud.  It is a “drop in place and tighten down”. GREAT as long as you don’t have it in a MH that vibrates like a 4.5 Mag earthquake.  The retaining nuts, on the outside, loosen.  Poor contact on the inside….arcs and sparks and high resistance.

EVERY LIPPERT owner should do this PM every few years.  Sometimes experience is a dear $chool….just passing on.  The solenoid connections are fixed…just clean and tighten…

2 hours ago, Steven 53 said:

Okay just wired in my 2 bosh relays and inline 20 amp fuses one for each relays still have some tiding up to do. That's for another day mid 90 now been in sun most of the day except when in generator bay. Headlights work both hi/low took few days for my stuff to come in. Hopefully tomorrow take for a test run with lights on and see if any fuses blow.

Great.  Now….if they blow or have issues….I’d pull the Positive (signal) wires from each relay.  Or pop out relays.  That will totally “disconnect” the leads from the HI/LO sowtch.  Then drive and test and such.  Still got an issue….it is UPSTREAM….of course….assuming the HI/LO switch is OK.  Then disconnect the power from the HI/LO switch…..keep working your way backwards or upstream.  If one of the inline fuses pops…issues in the Headlight housings or in the harness.

YES…working on MH’s provides one to make repairs in sometimes “exotic” locales….or in non hospitable climate conditions….

Great you can clean it.  Calcium or hard water deposits are bad.

BUT….EXPERIENCE HERE.  A hose that was out coiled up for a while over the winter had a MESS of bugs and eggs and larvae in it.  BINGO….instant clog.

BUT, here is how I had plumbed mine and escaped having to pull out the backflush unit…as mine is way out of sight and reach.  A full day job to get off a panel.

I use a short 3 ft hose extension….male on one end….female on the other.  I have a 1/4 turn garden hose shutoff valve.  I attached the hose to the flush fitting….and used a washing machine mesh washer.  Then I put the quarter turn valve on the other end.  But, belt and suspenders…also used a washing machine filter washer.

SO…I want to backflush.  Bring the hose to the MH. Hook up to the 1/4 turn valve.  Turn OFF valve.  Walk and turn on hose at faucet.

NOW I can turn ON and OFF the backflush at the MH ….as needed.

I also ordered a FEMALE Garden Hose plastic plug with a “tab” on the end….there is a hole in the tab.  I zip tied the plug so it is hanging.  AFTER I backflush and remove the hose….I screw in the plug

I have the same plug on the fresh hose to keep critters out….

John,

Pulled your manual and the sales brochure. There is now reference in the manual to a 25 ft Super or Full Wall slide. NOW….all that to say.  Very difficult to troubleshoot something that perhaps was a special build or a show coach or an experimental model. THERE may be others that are aware or have experience…but , from all the posts over a long time….you might benefit from the basics.

UNFORTUNATELY…. In many cases, the reliability of the full wall slides is poor.  Chris Throgmartin ( @throgmartin) was mentioned.  His comments have been honest, but not complimentary of them. We have helped folks over the years….I remember issues on a Dynasty and a Camelot and maybe a few more….the Knight does NOT pop up.

I googled as well as searched our data posts.  NADA on a Knight with a Full Wall slide.  So….that is unfortunate.

From a generic standpoint,  I DOUBT you have a HWH system….why…even in the upper food chain Dynasty (2007 to be precise), the one model with a Full Wall Slide and the conventional HWH system for the remainder….had a LIPPERT “simple” Hydraulic pack or system.  It was sort of “buried” or located on the Driver’s side in a bay….which is odd or very unusual.  It took a LONG time to get it working.  We spent time on the phone with a Mobile tech and he finally sort of “lucked into” it….like, what is “this thing?”  The THING was that it WAS an oddly placed Lippert hydraulic package and he finally, by using jumpers from his truck…got it retracted…so the member could drive.  I located a Tech nearby, who was really trusted and knowledgeable….I use him.  The owner took it in.  He diagnosed it.  A TRIPPED Circuit breaker.

NOW….that is NOT your issue…but I CAN tell you that I chased a similar problem on the SAME Lippert system….which controlled my two slides.  Only difference, I think, in your system and mine.  I have two valves….you have one.

BTW…I had three techs tell me MINE was FINE….but it was intermittent….and never “balky” when they tested and ran an amperage test….

HERE GOES….and this is real world….

First of all….FIND the unit.  If it IS a Lippert, it will have a motor with a Solenoid above it.  There will be a cable to the soleonid….and a cable from the solenoid to the Motor.  The OTHER side or motor terminal will be a cable to ground.

There are a LOT of bad advice, novice YouTube Videos on how to fix or such….and one was absolutely wrong and would mess up the motor. 

Here is one that shows,  but not in the best detail, what I THINK yours looks like as it is what was used in the rare 2007 Dynasty full wall.

yours will be slightly different, but the motors are sill the same design.  I tightened my motor studs after some use….the NEW ONE.

Check every connection on the large cables.  But pay particular attention to the motor.  Unscrew (power off of course at house and chassis) the nut holding the cable.  There will be a smaller net under it.  Tighten “snuggly”….but not twisting off, that nut.  That nut holds the motor stud (s) tight.  If the stud retaing nut(s) is loose, there is a HIGH resistance connection….and the motor is moving slower and the slide will be balky and erratic.  My slide is NOT as long as yours….but it did the same thing.

Do this SIMPLE TEST first…Have some extend or move the slide.  Put your VOM on the House Bank….I doubt the Chassis is powering….but can’t find a print.  If you are on shore or genny running….the voltage will be 13.1 or so…..if all is well, the voltage during the slide’s movement should stay in the mid 12’s.  But if the motor has a high resistance connection….then note how low it goes.  NOW…go to the Lippert unit. Out your VOM on the motor teminals.  Exercise the slide.  Whatever the voltage was at the House….hopefully no more than a few tenths drop.  Check the connections per the above and repeat.

IF the motor is drawing too much current….bingo….it kicks up the amperage and your motor gets hot.  Mine had, from the factory,the wrong size circuit breaker and I eventually killed the system….I figured it out TOO LATE.  New pump system.  The entire unit was about 40% more than just the motor….a NO Brainer.

That is MY experience.  Now….if you want to try a “trick”.  Take a vehicle….and put the positive on the INCOMING cable of the solenoid.  Ground out the negatvie to the  frame.  Now….let someone work the slide….did it run faster and smoother and not balky?  If so…you have a bad connection up stream.  Swap out the House Disconnect switch.  Cheap.  You have a great switch….but they break.  Mine was eventually the issue.  I’d carry a spare one anyway….so, putting in a new switch…Blue Seas….is good maintenance and might just be the problem…again….this is real world and I spent a LOT of time with Lippert, Monaco and others and finally, Frank. McElroy taught me the proper way to isolate a problem.  

THATS GENERIC….but I would not spend another penny on it until I had less than 0.2 - 0.3 VDC drop in Motor Voltage….while running from the House bank…

PAST THAT….If you have good voltage and can have someone check the current draw at the motor….it should be less than 70 amps.  Lippert says 65 Amp motor and to fuse or protect at 80 A.  Mine had a 150A…