Overhead vinyl???

[wamcneil]

Hi all,

I've got one section of headliner that's water damaged above the driver seat. I've already addressed the fiberglass cracks at the roof/cap junction and now I'm working on the underside. There's a big area of rotted plywood above the driver seat that will be a lot of fun to fix...

After cutting out and repairing the rot and I'll need to replace the foam and white vinyl. I sent pictures of this to a nearby custom RV shop for an estimate and they came back with 6-8 hours of labor to install the foam on my prepared surface after I'm done with the wood repair. 

This estimate doesn't make sense to me. The vinyl and 3/8" foam is supplied on a roll and then installed overhead with contact adhesive, right? Just like an automotive headliner?

I can't imagine there's more than 2 hrs work in this. Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Walter

[waterskier_1]

It looks like the ceiling was installed before the cabinets.  If he is planning on removing the cabinets I think 6 hours is on the low side.  I'm not sure you're you could replace the vinyl & foam without remodel of the cabinets, but I'm not an auto upholstery guy. 

[wamcneil]

Yes, the cabinets were installed after the headliner. I was planning on just tucking 1/2" of vinyl back in above the cabinet edge. I'll ask for clarification. Maybe they are planning to remove the cabinets. 

I suppose that would be the more 'right' way to do it...

Thanks,

Walter

[DavidL]

Hi Walter, my Newmar looks almost exactly like yours from the pictures.  And, I just finished doing that exact repair.

And it's WEEKS of work from a very DIY savvy person.

What you should do next is take the speakers out and see if the insulation is wet.  I am betting it is.  Which means the damage is much bigger than the front panel.

Guarenteed, from your pictures, you have to remove the front cabinets, the side blind enclosure etc.  Remove the electronics (disconnect power / battery first).  Drop the cabinets.

Remove the T Track (very hard to do withought breaking them) so you can pull the panels down clean

Then the worst part is rip the ceiling panel down.  Worst because it will be disheartening on how much damage / work it will be to repair what you find.  Trust me, I have been there.  Try to NOT break up the panel so you can reuse it as a template for the new panel (important to save much time!)

Next step is to remove anything that is wet and assess if the walls are also damaged.  Clean with a mask as you have mold spores that aren't good for your health.  I then used a bleach based solution to kill the remaining mold spores.

Clean all old adhesive off.  Try to clean without damaging the T Track that holds the panels up.  Remove any remnants of the ceiling panels from the side rails.  My rails are aluminum welded into the roof structure.  You will attempt to put the new panel back into these spots.  Open up the rail so it's easier to slide in a new panel.

I assume your roof liner is same.  Examine the Luan under the fiberglass.  If this is in bad condition...oh boy, the job just got much worse.  I was able to cut out the really bad Luan and slide new Luan across the roof spars and I glued them to keep them from rattling / shifting.  It will take weeks for the now exposed Luan to dry out for next steps.  Don't worry, plenty for you to do while it's drying.

I then put Pink board insulation in and spray foamed any gaps.  I then put fiberglass insulation in the balance of the spaces.

Make your new ceiling liner.  I used 1/2" pink insulation, contact adhesive to Luan, contact adhesive new ceiling liner fabric (or vinyl - whatever you want).  I then drilled the holes for speakers, and even the cabinet securing holes (so its easy to realign the cabinets to where they were.  Precision on this is imperative.  I used a table saw to cut a mitre edge on the outboard sides so it was easier to slide into the aluminum side rails.  This will be above the interior of the wall surface.  The wall helps make the ceiling transition look clean.  In mine, moulding covers this transition as well.

Dry fit the panel (two person job).  Trim where needed.  Then glue the spars and put the panel up.  Use furring strip boards to hold the board up (furring strip to the floor to ceiling) until it is dry (one full day).

Put it all back together again.

The above is a pretty advanced DIY project.  Know that going in on if you have the tools, the patience, the help and the acumen.  NO WAY is the quote you got a proper repair.  HUGELY understated to do the "right" job.  That quote is peal the fabric, off, dust off the mold and put fabric back on.  that's a band aid, not a repair.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but like I said...been there, done that.  Good Luck!!!

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/mountainaire-back-from-the-dead-394089-20.html

Post 268 or so and you can see pictures etc.

Edited December 4, 2020 by DavidL

[wamcneil]

4 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Hi Walter, my Newmar looks almost exactly like yours from the pictures.  And, I just finished doing that exact repair....

NO WAY is the quote you got a proper repair.  HUGELY understated to do the "right" job.  That quote is peal the fabric, off, dust off the mold and put fabric back on.  that's a band aid, not a repair.

 

Thanks .

Just for clarity, I did not ask them for an estimate to repair the water damage.

The shop estimate is only to install new foam/vinyl after I do the rot repair.

Cheers,

Walter

 

[wamcneil]

35 minutes ago, DavidL said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but like I said...been there, done that.  Good Luck!!!

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/mountainaire-back-from-the-dead-394089-20.html

Post 268 or so and you can see pictures etc.

Thanks. The pictures are very helpful. Ugh. Hopefully it's not just naïve optimism, but I don't think the extent of it is nearly that bad. It won't be fun either way...

My area up front is a little different. The foam board ends just forward of that seam and then there's 3/4" plywood toward the front of the seam under the front cap joint (with another layer of foam on top of the plywood). That's the rotted part. Apparently the junction of the ply and foam stopped water from migrating any farther back along the headliner. So I'm going to expose only what absolutely needs to be replaced and I'll try real hard not to find any damage that's not already visible!

I'm wishing I'd tackled same time as the fiberglass work above it. I used spray foam to fill the void under the cap/roof seam and create a surface to lay the fiberglass work on. I suspect a lot of that foam will need to be removed now to make room for the plywood repair....

Walter

Edited December 4, 2020 by wamcneil

[DavidL]

6 hours to do new vinyl:  If you are tackling a project this scope, there is no reason you wouldn't also do the vinyl.  That is the easiest / fastest part of the job.  And, you would put the fabric / vinyl on BEFORE putting the new panels in place.

On mine I did not have to replace the most forward panel, which is the worst part of yours (from the pictures...).  I did put new fabric on that panel so it matched the panels  I replaced.  I think that thread has some pictures of this step as well.  And, 6 hours for ONLY that is about right as an estimate.  But...looking at your latest pics...yours is worse than that....up to you on how far you want to dig in but that forward section would be down on the ground if it were mine.

[wamcneil]

"6 hours to do new vinyl...That is the easiest / fastest part of the job" Sure, If it was ME doing the vinyl I can see it taking several hours. But I've seen automotive trim shops knock out this kind of work in minutes. Presumably somebody that knows what they are doing would have that foam and vinyl glued up in short order. 

If it'll really cost what they say... I'll most certainly wind up doing it myself. 

Cheers,

Walter

[wamcneil]

David,

How is the side cabinet attached? I'm not seeing obvious fasteners.  Does the curtain track /panel need to come down for access?

It would be nice to have that cabinet out, but if the other panels need to come out I'll just work around it. I dug into it this evening and the rot is pretty localized. There's some delaminated plywood in the adjacent section, but it's not rotted. The roof 'ribs' under the fiberglass need to be held up at the end, but they're in good shape.

I fixed the fiberglass cap seam months ago so everything has been dry for a good while.

Figure I'll attach some kind of bracket to the outer steel frame, and use that to support the the ribs, then build up a new section of foam/plywood. Maybe build up the 1-1/2" from thinner layers secured up through the ribs? Maybe just rebuild that section with foam. The plywood doesn't seem to be supporting anything. Not sure why they used the plywood there, unless the TV cabinet was originally hung from it. The section behind this is 1-1/2" of foam instead of 3/4" foam and 3/4" ply and seems to be doing a similar function.

I'm thinking I'll get the spar ends supported against the steel, fill the gaps between them with spray foam, and fasten the rest of the layers up into the spars.

Walter

[DavidL]

Hi Walter,

Well, note that mine is a Newmar.  But they look pretty similar 🙂

On mine, from memory, one removes the shade unit.  The wood the shade unit is affixed to is stapled to the box.  That is pulled away to pull the staples out.  Once that is removed, the screws that affix the cabinet frame to the ceiling are then exposed.  Maybe that is similar to yours.  If you post some more pictures of that cabinet from all angles, maybe we can figure that out for yours.

[wamcneil]

Thanks. That does sound similar. I can’t see staples involved with the side cabinets directly, but my center tv cabinet had been removed in the past and I can see where it was stapled into that piece. 
That’s more disassembly than I’m willing to take on at this point...I think I’ll try working around it...

[wamcneil]

Ok, so I've got this about ready to reassemble, but I'm having some 2nd thoughts. Could use some advice...

At this point, I could put up a layer of 1/8" doorskin, and then foam/vinyl. But that might be a tremendous PITA and I'm wondering if there's a better way.

First question is: why is there 3/4" plywood overhead in this section? It looks like the panel to the rear of it is 1-1/2" foam board with doorskin glued to the bottom face, and then foam/vinyl. This forward-most section is 3/4" foam, then 3/4" plywood, 1/8" doorskin and then foam/vinyl.

I suspect that the 3/4" plywood is there to support the original heavy CRT TV and cabinetry. But now I've got a much lighter lcd TV and the TV cabinet has been cut back so it's almost flush with the adjacent cabinets. And I can hang the TV cabinet on the 2x2 steel tube running across just in front of the plywood.

So I'm wondering if I could just remove the 3/4" plywood altogether and replace it with 3/4" foam. I figure it will be much easier to glue together 3/4" foam board, doorskin, then foam/vinyl on the workbench, and then install the ensemble all together.

If I leave the plywood in place, I'm afraid I'll need to work overhead and install each piece separately.

So what do y'all think? Is the 3/4" plywood there for any reason other than to support the TV cabinet?

Thanks,

Walter

[Chargerman]

I wouldn’t touch that 3/4 plywood as I would suspect that it adds to the structural integrity of the front cap area. Remember, Monaco had issues with windshields coming out or cracking on some models.