New engine technology

[Guest Ray Davis]

If you're any sort of car/engine guy you have gotta read this

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/new-ice-technology-that-will-undo-the-bev-531647.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

I'm 80 yrs old, but there is still a kid in me yelling I wanna drive.   😲

Or you can You tube   https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=koenigsegg's+tiny+engine+makes+600+horsepower

Edited April 12, 2021 by Ray Davis

[JDCrow]

Let’s hope they do a better job at cam management than the Cam phasers in my 5.4 Ford V-8 LOL 

a semi-infinite cam. Amazing.

 

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

I am not a IRv2 fan because they make money off what you post.  Chuck B

[Guest Ray Davis]

11 minutes ago, Chuck B said:

I am not a IRv2 fan because they make money off what you post.  Chuck B

You tube,  oh they make money too.   Who doesn't like money?   That's why I labored for yrs & yrs and more yrs.   I don't see anything wrong with it,  they don't ask me for money.    We are exceptionally fortunate here on Monacoers,  great owner and moderators.  What more could we ask for?

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

I understand that, but, not off my material.  Chuck B

[jimc99999]

17 hours ago, Chuck B said:

I am not a IRv2 fan because they make money off what you post.

In general, if you're not a paying customer for any given service, you're the product. If you don't want to be the product...put up the cash!

For reference, since there are 40 online users at 10am PST, I'd guess this site probably requires the 100-user plan at $70/month. So just because you aren't putting up the cash to be a customer doesn't mean someone else isn't. The alternative is for the community to be ad-supported, where "they make money off your content".

To make significantly more off "your content" than it costs to host your content requires a fair amount of work to build and maintain a community. And after all that work, if you're not diligent about maintaining that community, trolls can destroy a community in a pretty short time. A site like IRV2 also has to compete with "free" options like Facebook groups to retain their communities. It's not easy to build and keep a large enough community to make enough to even pay for hosting.

Side note: I don't know the history of IRV2 so I don't know if some media company bought out other better communities and migrated them to IRV2 until they were the only viable option, or if someone built that community through diligent community maintenance.

[jimc99999]

As for the camless ICE motor, it is interesting technology but will likely be no more than a stop-gap measure. Claims are 30% improved efficiency and 50% reduced emissions, which still leaves it far behind the 100mpg-equivalent of BEVs like Tesla. 

I'd like to think that motors like this would always have a place in performance-oriented applications like sports cars and motorcycles, similar to how the horse has transitioned from a working tool to a symbol of leisure and wealth. But the horse just needs some grass;  readily available gasoline requires refineries producing specific blends, and significant storage, pumping and transportation infrastructure. You can buy high-octane race fuels at racetracks, so in theory some refinery could still keep pumping out the racing-oriented fuels and transporting to racetracks, but who knows what the future holds.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

3 hours ago, jimc99999 said:

In general, if you're not a paying customer for any given service, you're the product. If you don't want to be the product...put up the cash!

For reference, since there are 40 online users at 10am PST, I'd guess this site probably requires the 100-user plan at $70/month. So just because you aren't putting up the cash to be a customer doesn't mean someone else isn't. The alternative is for the community to be ad-supported, where "they make money off your content".

To make significantly more off "your content" than it costs to host your content requires a fair amount of work to build and maintain a community. And after all that work, if you're not diligent about maintaining that community, trolls can destroy a community in a pretty short time. A site like IRV2 also has to compete with "free" options like Facebook groups to retain their communities. It's not easy to build and keep a large enough community to make enough to even pay for hosting.

Side note: I don't know the history of IRV2 so I don't know if some media company bought out other better communities and migrated them to IRV2 until they were the only viable option, or if someone built that community through diligent community maintenance.

All that is fine and dandy as long as they are not using my money or contents.  Chuck B

[vanwill52]

The problem with making a sweeping statement like, “I won’t visit any site that makes money off my contributions or simply because I am a member” is that (if you HONESTLY pursue that line) you cut yourself off from waaaay more than you realize.  Is there a major credit card company that does not have ads onsite?  I use Chase, and they are rife with ads…non-obtrusive, but ads nonetheless.  Even my tiny regional bank, that has supported my machine shop business for decades, has a website that refers me to other services “You might be interested in…”  How would you like to make your choice of financial institutions based on whether they do not refer you to “partners”?  It might be a long search…

Why is Google the undisputed top dog of search engines?  Because they are (arguably…and let’s don’t argue minutia, PLEASE) the best at what they do.  I’m not endorsing their politics or their ethics.  You cannot open a Google inquiry and not see ads.  It’s the nature of the beast.  But no one has even come close to knocking them out of first place.

And even if you never used Google (how does ANYONE do that?), when you read some instructions about how to do something and they do not seem clear to you, what do you do?  You search YouTube, if indeed Google did not lead you to it.  And if you are sworn not to use YouTube, you miss not only a great entertainment NON-TV source, but you miss the best, most detailed, and most professional tutorial ever posted anywhere about the fine details of replacing Monaco air bags (posted by Mike Zuech, an amazing young man from Utah that I have met personally).  Even though I originally thought of YouTube as a place for folks to “get themselves on the Internet”, I long ago abandoned that condemnation.  Crusty ol’ Bill D defined the propensity to post something ANYWHERE when it is of no benefit to anyone as “digital diarrhea”…just someone posting a personal opinion no one was interested in.  I always loved the colonel’s way with words.  I got that one over breakfast at his house one morning.  But I digress (digital diarrhea?).  I defy you to find any mechanical/electrical/electronic/hydraulic/carpentry/plumbing/HVAC subject on which there are not loads of videos, many of them exceptionally good.  I have even found help diagnosing failures in the complex $200K+ machine tools my company operates.  A few of the videos are amateurish.  (“Hey y’all, hold my beer and watch this!!—thank you, Dave Pratt for all those hilarious links you have sent me!!)  It’s your intellectual job to sort out the truly useful ones.  And even though I know next to nothing about Aqua-Hot, studying several YouTube videos helped me diagnose and repair a traveling companion’s system while in Alaska several years ago.  But no matter which YouTube video you choose, YOU WILL SEE ADS.  So, YouTube is making money off you even if you never click on an ad.  I cannot imagine NOT having YouTube as a resource.

I use Amazon extensively, both for my business and personally.  I recently bought an industrial filter mask from Amazon for less than $30, and got it in two days.  One of my normal industrial (online) suppliers can supply the exact same mask for $58…in two weeks.  Which am I going to choose?  I cannot imagine being without Amazon…even though I know they are making money off me when I only browse their site.  I have not even bought a pair of shoes from a retailer in over a decade.  Is that tough on the small biz that is a brick-and-mortar shoe store?  Yes, but look how many of them have adapted to change and sell their goods through Amazon.  I’m sympathetic to these small businesses, as my business is among them.  Sorry, but only the strong and innovative survive.  And efficiency, customer service, and low price drive the marketplace of the world.  You can do your best to resist change, but you will be swept aside in the marketplace if you do.

And iRV2.com compared to Bill D’s Monacoers?  Our beloved site tends to filter out the BS posts.  Yes, a contributor on iRV2 named “Wild Card” recently admonished me for posting methods for increasing boost pressure, because I could “cause burning pistons from lean mixtures”.  Let that sink in.  The leanest “mixture” you will ever encounter is idling or very light load when there is much excess air stoichiometrically.  But with only infrequent BS posts like that, by and large when you access iRV2 with a question (or just to read) you have a truly VAST audience, and the chances that a truly competent poster will respond is even higher than with our beloved site.  Many, if not most, of our members regularly frequent iRV2.  And if my meager contributions can help any fellow RV'er, I am more than happy to have iRV2 host my contributions.  The development of the Watts link and cross-braces would have been impossible without them.  And I never expected one penny in return.  I just wanted to help the RV community.

And as for individuals who have never owned a business, or worked only for a large company…or no longer work for anyone…you may have excess time on your hands and eschewing capitalistic sites whose main motivator is profit, for altruistic ones of mediocre ability may suit your personal desires.  But time is always too short for me.  I have more projects on my list than three men could complete in a lifetime.  I work on them every single day.  And I keep marking them off my list, often with online help from sites that “make money off me” by having ads.

I have no quarrel with anyone whose life is complete without the “information superhighway” (that Al Gore invented 😊).  But it’s hardly a badge of distinction.  For the rest of us poor swine who are constantly in need of and CRAVING technical information, thank God for capitalism which gave us such a vast resource…and the most wonderful life of any country on earth.  Eliminate the profit motive, either by government or phony moralistic/social pontificating and see what you end up with in only a couple of generations.

God bless the USA!

[rpasetto]

23 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

If you're any sort of car/engine guy you have gotta read this

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f59/new-ice-technology-that-will-undo-the-bev-531647.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email

I'm 80 yrs old, but there is still a kid in me yelling I wanna drive.   😲

Or you can You tube   https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=koenigsegg's+tiny+engine+makes+600+horsepower

The idea of electronically controlled engine valving seems to be a logical step after other improvements to internal combustion engines like ECM controlled ignition and fuel injection over the old distributor-e or the ECM controlled fuel injection in our newer diesels which had previously been cam-driven.  I hope I'm still driving when such engines become available to the general population.

However, before one compares 'carbon footprint' of todays fossil fuel engines with electric motors, recall that about 2/3 of the electricity generated today is based on natural gas, coal and other fossil fuel products.  Who knows what the future will bring... maybe nuclear power scaled down to motorhome size... 

https://www.publicpower.org/system/files/documents/Americas-Electricity-Generation-Capacity_2021-update.pdf

[jimc99999]

6 minutes ago, rpasetto said:

However, before one compares 'carbon footprint' of todays fossil fuel engines with electric motors, recall that about 2/3 of the electricity generated today is based on natural gas, coal and other fossil fuel products.

True. However, natural gas power plants can hit 60% thermal efficiency. Car engines run at 20-30% thermal efficiency, lower during cold start, stop and go traffic, etc. This is largely why Teslas run around 100mpg-equavalent; a similar gas-powered car would be getting 25mpg at 25% efficiency. 

Coal plants run at 35-40% thermal efficiency. So a Tesla utilizing power generated only by coal plants could still run cleaner than a car with internal combustion engine. But coal power plants are rapidly closing and as the power generation is cleaned up electric vehicles will also run cleaner, while the ICE car can only continue burning gasoline at 20-30% efficiency. 

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

37 minutes ago, vanwill52 said:

The problem with making a sweeping statement like, “I won’t visit any site that makes money off my contributions or simply because I am a member” is that (if you HONESTLY pursue that line) you cut yourself off from waaaay more than you realize.  Is there a major credit card company that does not have ads onsite?  I use Chase, and they are rife with ads…non-obtrusive, but ads nonetheless.  Even my tiny regional bank, that has supported my machine shop business for decades, has a website that refers me to other services “You might be interested in…”  How would you like to make your choice of financial institutions based on whether they do not refer you to “partners”?  It might be a long search…

Why is Google the undisputed top dog of search engines?  Because they are (arguably…and let’s don’t argue minutia, PLEASE) the best at what they do.  I’m not endorsing their politics or their ethics.  You cannot open a Google inquiry and not see ads.  It’s the nature of the beast.  But no one has even come close to knocking them out of first place.

And even if you never used Google (how does ANYONE do that?), when you read some instructions about how to do something and they do not seem clear to you, what do you do?  You search YouTube, if indeed Google did not lead you to it.  And if you are sworn not to use YouTube, you miss not only a great entertainment NON-TV source, but you miss the best, most detailed, and most professional tutorial ever posted anywhere about the fine details of replacing Monaco air bags (posted by Mike Zuech, an amazing young man from Utah that I have met personally).  Even though I originally thought of YouTube as a place for folks to “get themselves on the Internet”, I long ago abandoned that condemnation.  Crusty ol’ Bill D defined the propensity to post something ANYWHERE when it is of no benefit to anyone as “digital diarrhea”…just someone posting a personal opinion no one was interested in.  I always loved the colonel’s way with words.  I got that one over breakfast at his house one morning.  But I digress (digital diarrhea?).  I defy you to find any mechanical/electrical/electronic/hydraulic/carpentry/plumbing/HVAC subject on which there are not loads of videos, many of them exceptionally good.  I have even found help diagnosing failures in the complex $200K+ machine tools my company operates.  A few of the videos are amateurish.  (“Hey y’all, hold my beer and watch this!!—thank you, Dave Pratt for all those hilarious links you have sent me!!)  It’s your intellectual job to sort out the truly useful ones.  And even though I know next to nothing about Aqua-Hot, studying several YouTube videos helped me diagnose and repair a traveling companion’s system while in Alaska several years ago.  But no matter which YouTube video you choose, YOU WILL SEE ADS.  So, YouTube is making money off you even if you never click on an ad.  I cannot imagine NOT having YouTube as a resource.

I use Amazon extensively, both for my business and personally.  I recently bought an industrial filter mask from Amazon for less than $30, and got it in two days.  One of my normal industrial (online) suppliers can supply the exact same mask for $58…in two weeks.  Which am I going to choose?  I cannot imagine being without Amazon…even though I know they are making money off me when I only browse their site.  I have not even bought a pair of shoes from a retailer in over a decade.  Is that tough on the small biz that is a brick-and-mortar shoe store?  Yes, but look how many of them have adapted to change and sell their goods through Amazon.  I’m sympathetic to these small businesses, as my business is among them.  Sorry, but only the strong and innovative survive.  And efficiency, customer service, and low price drive the marketplace of the world.  You can do your best to resist change, but you will be swept aside in the marketplace if you do.

And iRV2.com compared to Bill D’s Monacoers?  Our beloved site tends to filter out the BS posts.  Yes, a contributor on iRV2 named “Wild Card” recently admonished me for posting methods for increasing boost pressure, because I could “cause burning pistons from lean mixtures”.  Let that sink in.  The leanest “mixture” you will ever encounter is idling or very light load when there is much excess air stoichiometrically.  But with only infrequent BS posts like that, by and large when you access iRV2 with a question (or just to read) you have a truly VAST audience, and the chances that a truly competent poster will respond is even higher than with our beloved site.  Many, if not most, of our members regularly frequent iRV2.  And if my meager contributions can help any fellow RV'er, I am more than happy to have iRV2 host my contributions.  The development of the Watts link and cross-braces would have been impossible without them.  And I never expected one penny in return.  I just wanted to help the RV community.

And as for individuals who have never owned a business, or worked only for a large company…or no longer work for anyone…you may have excess time on your hands and eschewing capitalistic sites whose main motivator is profit, for altruistic ones of mediocre ability may suit your personal desires.  But time is always too short for me.  I have more projects on my list than three men could complete in a lifetime.  I work on them every single day.  And I keep marking them off my list, often with online help from sites that “make money off me” by having ads.

I have no quarrel with anyone whose life is complete without the “information superhighway” (that Al Gore invented 😊).  But it’s hardly a badge of distinction.  For the rest of us poor swine who are constantly in need of and CRAVING technical information, thank God for capitalism which gave us such a vast resource…and the most wonderful life of any country on earth.  Eliminate the profit motive, either by government or phony moralistic/social pontificating and see what you end up with in only a couple of generations.

God bless the USA!

if you never used Google (how does ANYONE do that?),  That is why I use duck duck go as my search engine instead of google.  Duck Duck Go does not store any information on you.  Chuck B

[jimc99999]

14 minutes ago, Chuck B said:

That is why I use duck duck go as my search engine instead of google.  Duck Duck Go does not store any information on you.

Duck Duck Go sells ads, and they sell those ads based on what you search for. They don't track your activity and sell your data to the same extent Google does, but your activity still makes money for them. 

For any service you use "for free", either someone is paying for you to use that service, or you are the product that is making someone money.  Watch a "free" youtube video? Youtube makes money. Post on Facebook? Facebook makes money. Have a "free" bank acount? Bank makes money from both your money and your data. 

I haven't reviewed the terms of service for Invision Community's cloud-hosted forums, but it's entirely possible that while Bill D is paying them $70+/month to provide this forum for us, Invision Community may be aggregating and selling our data as well to "make money off your content".

Edit: forgot to mention there's a google analytics tracker on this forum. While browsers are working toward trying to prevent these trackers from identifying users across websites, the data aggregators (Google, Facebook, etc) are constantly working to defeat those privacy efforts. So it's entirely likely that Google can  still make money based simply on the fact that you viewed this website.

Edited April 13, 2021 by jimc99999

[vanwill52]

Jim makes a very valid point, essentially that "there ain't no free lunch".  Any service YOU access might not cost YOU directly, but providing the service isn't free.  Just because it's free to YOU (like Bill D's Monacoers) doesn't mean SOMEONE isn't paying for you to use it.  If this group ever finds it must go to subscription to stay alive, I'll be first in line to pay my share.

Yes, I've used Duck Duck Go and probably every other search engine that has come and gone.  Duck Duck Go is not bad for a fifth-rate, under-funded offering.  If its users were willing to "pay their fair share", it might be a contender.  Would you like to subscribe and help them out?  But nothing compares to Google.  I dislike their ethics and politics, and I KNOW they make money off me even if I never click an ad.  But the service is worth it.

And Facebook Monacoers?  Never been to Facebook, let alone Facebook Monacoers.  But Mike Zueck is a truly genuine, want-to-help young man of immense talent, and he recently disclosed on iRV2 that he was abandoning FM because of the "climate".  In talking to him, he is exhausted from irrelevant personal opinions about his posts.  iRV2 (like Bill D's Monacoers) is moderated.  Dissention is allowed, but when it takes a subject off the rails, the moderators correct it.  It is my understanding none of the moderators are paid.  They are volunteers for the good of the community.  I believe one of the moderators is a member of our group.

If iRV2 ever makes money off something I've posted, I'll be proud...not PO'd.  I authored one of the longest running threads ever, that survives to this day because of the relevance of the content.  I'm not the least bit annoyed.

This is a thread about new engine technology, NOT about anyone's personal opinions about capitalism.  Let's get back on track.  It's an interesting engine, even if it may be over-hyped.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

2 hours ago, jimc99999 said:

Duck Duck Go sells ads, and they sell those ads based on what you search for. They don't track your activity and sell your data to the same extent Google does, but your activity still makes money for them. 

For any service you use "for free", either someone is paying for you to use that service, or you are the product that is making someone money.  Watch a "free" youtube video? Youtube makes money. Post on Facebook? Facebook makes money. Have a "free" bank acount? Bank makes money from both your money and your data. 

I haven't reviewed the terms of service for Invision Community's cloud-hosted forums, but it's entirely possible that while Bill D is paying them $70+/month to provide this forum for us, Invision Community may be aggregating and selling our data as well to "make money off your content".

Edit: forgot to mention there's a google analytics tracker on this forum. While browsers are working toward trying to prevent these trackers from identifying users across websites, the data aggregators (Google, Facebook, etc) are constantly working to defeat those privacy efforts. So it's entirely likely that Google can  still make money based simply on the fact that you viewed this website.

As far as I am concerned, Duck Duck Go allows me to go there, but when I arrive Duck Duck Go forgets to tell where I go who I am and where I came from.  Chuck B

[David Pratt]

Bill D's Monacoers.Org is free to Members only. Bill D is not paying the Invision Community any monthly fee to provide this Forum as Bill passed away years before we moved to this Forum and would be unable to to pay if there was a fee.

My goal as the Owner of the Monacoers.org Group as with the other Moderators was to make it available at no charge to all members. We are fortunate that we have been able to do just that.

When necessary I use many other search engines and do not care if they share my info because I am very cautious about what information I have made available. Everyone has their own methods for searching information and should use whatever they feel comfortable using. What Search Engine a member uses is their business and I have no problem if a member wants to post something positive or negative about their experience as long as it is kept respectful and to the point.

This thread started out as a discussion about a small engine Invention and got hijacked into a discussion about Web Search Engines. There has been a lot of good information and opinions posted and has made some good informed reading for all who have followed and participated in the thread.

The Monacoers.org Forum has the most Comprehensive Information gathered to help assist our members with just about any problem they may have with their Monaco Brand Coach. If you couple that with the Information that is available on the IRV2 Forum, you have two formidable assets to glean information from and there are members on both groups with the expertise and knowledge to help each other.

What I am asking is that anymore discussions about web search engines be taken off line and the search engine discussion ended.

Thanks

[Frank Bergamo]

THANK YOU!!