Remco Aqua-Jet ARV-55 Retrofit

[Bob Jones]

Hi Guys!

On my 2000 Diplomat I have a recent issue (over the last year) of the fresh water tank filling itself when connected to city water with the 2-way valve set to city water. Here's a pic of the valve so you know what kind of system I have. 

 

I realize this is a common problem and it usually has one of two sources, one, and the most common, is the check valves in the 12V water pump are leaking allowing water to flow back through the pump and into the fresh water tank. The second common issue is the two-way valve (city/water) is leaking and allowing water to flow into the tank.

Since my pump was relatively new, I changed out the two-way valve with the one that was used on the hot water tank bypass (exact same valve). Now, of course, I'm replacing a used valve with another used valve but it was just easier for me than to source a new one. Problem persisted. At that point I ordered up a new valve and installed it. Problem persisted. 

I liked the pump I had and did not want to replace it so I just gave up and worked around it by turning off the fresh water at the pedestal.

Fast forward to today and I ordered up a new 12v water pump, installed it, filled the fresh water tank very near the top and let it sit. Guess what? When I came home, water was coming out of the overflow for the fresh water tank. In other words, problem persisted!

Just to recap, no less than 3 (total) fresh water valves replaced with the last one being brand new. Problem persisted

Replaced the relatively new pump with another new pump today, and the problem persisted. 

Logically, at this point, either I am the unluckiest person in the world when it comes to 2-way valves or 12v pumps or....it's something else. 

The water pressure in this park is pretty low, max is 45 PSI and it's usually lower depending on resident's usage.

If you take a look at the picture above, I'm assuming the left side of the valve is the outlet for city water and the right side is the fresh water tank. But there is a fitting on the left side of the 2-way valve. That fitting is a one-way check valve.....At this point my brain is fried but I am wondering if anyone knows *why* that check valve is there? I can't really see it being the problem but I don't understand what it's function is. Perhaps to prevent water from inside the unit flowing back out into the park? Perhaps they (Monaco) were thinking that a guy could somehow pressurize the water system in the RV above that which the park provides and then send some kind of contaminates back into the park water supply? 

So, my problem is, my water tank is still self-filling even when the 2-way valve is set to City and I don't know what that check valve is designed to do.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Bob Jones

[redstickbill]

Bob,

You have a bad check valve. The check valve should prevent the flow from the pump from flowing into the holding tank.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

Edited June 8, 2022 by redstickbill

[Guest Ray Davis]

6 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

 I can't really see it being the problem but I don't understand what it's function is. Perhaps to prevent water from inside the unit flowing back out into the park?

The check valve in question ( mounted on the 2 way valve ) is as you said, to stop flow from your 12v pump out to the water hose hook up.                                                  When my check valve malfunctioned we arrived and found the water tank empty. The pump got turned on and water flowed ouy on the road.                                             I don't beieve that check valve is likely your culprit, since its function is to allow water to flow one way, towards the tank.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Ray Davis said:

The check valve in question ( mounted on the 2 way valve ) is as you said, to stop flow from your 12v pump out to the water hose hook up.                                                  When my check valve malfunctioned we arrived and found the water tank empty. The pump got turned on and water flowed ouy on the road.                                             I don't beieve that check valve is likely your culprit, since its function is to allow water to flow one way, towards the tank.

I admit to be a bit mystified and have tried for many years, along with others to get a plumbing diagram from Monaco.  For the record, you do NOT have the MonoBloc or manifold system found on the Dynasties….so any comments about that are not relevant to your MH.

As Ray says, the ORIGINAL valve (city/fill) usually had a check valve attached directly to it. The valve and the check valve are different components and you can replace one or the other or both.  They were not. “Special” valve assembly.  On many MH, the valve body, and the check valve, was behind the plastic water or utility panel and the valve stem stuck our with the handle attached.

Yours may not look that way.  The purpose, as I understand it, is to allow you to use either  the city system or the pump system.  The check valve allows water to flow into the motor home from the city or be diverted or switched to the fresh tank.  My memory is that when you are filling the fresh tank, the pump will not work…but that may be incorrect.

The backfilling of the tank was USUALLY a traced to debris in the city/fill valve.  The “trick” that typically worked at least 90% of the time, was to quickly cycle the valve back and forth to dislodge or flush out the debris.  Leaks varied by how much debris was there.  Some fully rising and visible or others a gradual. Mine did,that many years ago and the tank level would increase by about an inch every 24 hours.  I took off the external hose regulator that I used and then used full campground water pressure and flushed it.  I think I might have done that one more time when I returned home.  
The only other issue was some debris in the lines a few years later in that the fresh tank filled slowly.  Same trick….next time at home, problem solved.

NOW….I have the hose reel so my system might be or probably is.  If you can’t resolve this….and I Don’t believe the pumps have internal check valves, then one enterprising individual put a 1/4 turn valve on the inlet line to the fresh water tank….but if the flow is going back through the suction line, then that would not work.  You need to see if the water is coming in from the fill or backfeeding from the outlet or suction line.

if you find a schematic, let us have it.

[Guest Ray Davis]

Bob,  I recall you did some fancy plumbing on your hot water system.  I don't believe the problem is there, but I can't recall what all was involved, so could it be something there?

FWIW I have also heard of some things going awry ( can't recall what ) when the outside shower valves are both left on and the water is turned off at the hand  sprayer.

[Bob Jones]

5 hours ago, redstickbill said:

Bob,

You have a bad check valve. The check valve should prevent the flow from the pump from flowing into the holding tank.

Bill B 07 Dynasty

You mean the check valves in the water pump, correct? This is the thing, I've replaced the pump twice now. Most recently, yesterday. The last one I replaced about a year ago. It *shouldn't* be a bad batch of pumps.

4 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

The check valve in question ( mounted on the 2 way valve ) is as you said, to stop flow from your 12v pump out to the water hose hook up.                                                  When my check valve malfunctioned we arrived and found the water tank empty. The pump got turned on and water flowed out on the road.                                             I don't believe that check valve is likely your culprit, since its function is to allow water to flow one way, towards the tank.

Thank you for confirming my assumptions on that check valve. Because my brain was getting fried the obvious (now) fact hadn't occurred to me that when the pump is on of course the internal plumbing is pressurized and without that check valve water would flow back out to the city-water switch. You've eliminated that and I've learned something- thank you!

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

The backfilling of the tank was USUALLY traced to debris in the city/fill valve.  The “trick” that typically worked at least 90% of the time, was to quickly cycle the valve back and forth to dislodge or flush out the debris.  Leaks varied by how much debris was there.  Some fully rising and visible or others a gradual. Mine did that many years ago and the tank level would increase by about an inch every 24 hours.  I took off the external hose regulator that I used and then used full campground water pressure and flushed it.  I think I might have done that one more time when I returned home.  
The only other issue was some debris in the lines a few years later in that the fresh tank filled slowly.  Same trick….next time at home, problem solved.

Good thinking. I also seem to remember someone suggesting that some time back, now that you mention it. I will try that this morning. Unfortunately, the park does not have good water pressure, at most 42 PSI. It might be time for a 'road trip' over to my parents where they have ~100 PSI or so.

10 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Bob,  I recall you did some fancy plumbing on your hot water system.  I don't believe the problem is there, but I can't recall what all was involved, so could it be something there?

FWIW I have also heard of some things going awry ( can't recall what ) when the outside shower valves are both left on and the water is turned off at the hand  sprayer.

Yes, there is *lots* of fancy plumbing inside, and I thought the same at one point, but it's not the cause 😞 If I were building up pressure to excessive levels I would see it on the pressure gage. But, to be sure, I've been testing with the hot water tank cold. In that case, it's the same as any other unit. I only have a single water spigot in the wet bay (hose bib?) and I have checked that as well. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Bob Jones

[Bob Jones]

Well, I went out and moved the City/Water valve repeatedly. Snapping it back & forth at least 20 times and I still have water leaking out the fresh tank overfill. As mentioned, I had replaced the City/Water valve not long ago. It's a bit stiff to turn, in other words, like new. 

I think I'm going to try changing pump brands. New thread on retrofitting a Remco Aqua-Jet ARV-55 started. The new replacement pump is overheating much too easily. There appears to be something wrong with it (identical to my old one) so the old one will go back in for now. 

Edited June 8, 2022 by Bob Jones

[Bob Jones]

Hi Guys!

My new water pump packed it in so I'm going to upgrade to the Remco Aqua-Jet ARV-55. I didn't really want to spend that much on a water pump 😞

I'm going to take the time to relocate it as well so that it's in an easy location so pumps can be changed quickly. I'm going to look into voltage drop to see if the stock pump wiring can handle it. 

Now would be a good time for everyone to tell me how much better my life will be with it installed 🙂

[jacwjames]

I believe this is the pump I installed ~10 years ago, it has performed great.  

The previous owner of my coach had modified the bay the water pump was in.  Actually mounted it up high on the side of the compartment to free up the floor space.  He actually just used some of the reinforced water line with ends to extend the lines.  This actually helped with the noise also.

Look at installing a relay and heavier gauge wire to the pump if you think there might be  voltage issue.  Mine is wired with  relay. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

Hi Guys!

My new water pump packed it in so I'm going to upgrade to the Remco Aqua-Jet ARV-55. I didn't really want to spend that much on a water pump 😞

I'm going to take the time to relocate it as well so that it's in an easy location so pumps can be changed quickly. I'm going to look into voltage drop to see if the stock pump wiring can handle it. 

Now would be a good time for everyone to tell me how much better my life will be with it installed 🙂

DO IT.  They are great and reliable.  I ended up with a new one from a project that my wife’s LLC started where they wanted to winterize a vacant house…so I bought them a pump.  Plumbing was in such bad shape, they abandoned the idea.  
 

My original got flooded a few years ago.  Had a stinky hose leak…or more precisely, I tried to clear a Sanicon blockage with a hose connection.  OPPS….the hose blew.  Got septic water in the PCB on the bottom,  But, I flushed it out a few days later with WD-40 and electronic contact cleaner.  AquaJet, the original designer. Had mean to POT or seal the PCB, which is the regulator, but sold the RV model to Remco.  I did mine.  Worked great and finally, on a long trip, I put the new one in…still have the old one as a spare.

It you have a controller, do NOT make the mistake of using the in-line fuse holder that comes with it.  Clip this off and wire straight.  That has been a source of trouble.  Many have cut a 2X4 or 6 and made a base for the pump.  They screw the base to floor of wet bay and isolate the base with a 1/4” rubber pad.  Then screw the pump to the base.  Elevates it and cuts down on noise.  Use 2 loops when you install.  The loops should be 18” each.  That also isolates the pump.

Finally, if you have an on board accumulator, make sure it is NOT water logged or the diaphragm has a leak.  AquaJet does NOT recommend an accumulator or expansion tank.  My Camelot does not have one, but some Monaco upper ends did.  No rhyme or reason.  If you decide to maintain your system and it had an accumulator, I personally would replace it based on age….but again, mine works great without it.

Good Luck!

[Bob Jones]

4 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I believe this is the pump I installed ~10 years ago, it has performed great.  

The previous owner of my coach had modified the bay the water pump was in.  Actually mounted it up high on the side of the compartment to free up the floor space.  He actually just used some of the reinforced water line with ends to extend the lines.  This actually helped with the noise also.

Look at installing a relay and heavier gauge wire to the pump if you think there might be  voltage issue.  Mine is wired with  relay. 

Yes, my original pump was mounted on the left wall of the wet bay near the floor. There were a lot of pex lines in that area and that made it nearly impossible to adjust the cut out pressure setting on the pump. I decided that if I'm going through the effort of retrofitting a non-exact replacement I might as well move the pump to the floor level and make it easy to replace/adjust. 

4 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

DO IT.  They are great and reliable.  I ended up with a new one from a project that my wife’s LLC started where they wanted to winterize a vacant house…so I bought them a pump.  Plumbing was in such bad shape, they abandoned the idea.  
 

My original got flooded a few years ago.  Had a stinky hose leak…or more precisely, I tried to clear a Sanicon blockage with a hose connection.  OPPS….the hose blew.  Got septic water in the PCB on the bottom,  But, I flushed it out a few days later with WD-40 and electronic contact cleaner.  AquaJet, the original designer. Had mean to POT or seal the PCB, which is the regulator, but sold the RV model to Remco.  I did mine.  Worked great and finally, on a long trip, I put the new one in…still have the old one as a spare.

It you have a controller, do NOT make the mistake of using the in-line fuse holder that comes with it.  Clip this off and wire straight.  That has been a source of trouble.  Many have cut a 2X4 or 6 and made a base for the pump.  They screw the base to floor of wet bay and isolate the base with a 1/4” rubber pad.  Then screw the pump to the base.  Elevates it and cuts down on noise.  Use 2 loops when you install.  The loops should be 18” each.  That also isolates the pump.

Finally, if you have an on board accumulator, make sure it is NOT water logged or the diaphragm has a leak.  AquaJet does NOT recommend an accumulator or expansion tank.  My Camelot does not have one, but some Monaco upper ends did.  No rhyme or reason.  If you decide to maintain your system and it had an accumulator, I personally would replace it based on age….but again, mine works great without it.

Good Luck!

Awesome! I'm relocating it to the floor and I have a piece of stainless that I was going to bolt to the floor and I was already thinking of putting some rubber in between the stainless and the floor. I have long flexible water line going to it already so it's just a matter of customizing the lengths. I don't have a controller, but I do have two switches for the pump and apparently that adds a lot of power drain. Since I've gone this far I will likely run a new power feed from the battery to a relay and ensure it has more power than it draws. At that price, I want it to run at full speed. I do have an accumulator, it's about 3 gallons, as I recall, and it's new last year(?), it's not water logged. I'll adjust it according to the cut in on the new pump. 

My whole hope is that this ends the fresh water tank auto-filling when connected to city water. But....the shower could use more pressure and this pump should do that!

[Ruffcutz]

One thing you might try is just purchasing a $15 check valve and plumb it in right next to the water pump on the filter side. If that solves the issue then at least you can somewhat isolate where the issue is. I know some pump manufacturers quit putting check valves in there pumps but that is usually on the newer rigs.

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, Ruffcutz said:

One thing you might try is just purchasing a $15 check valve and plumb it in right next to the water pump on the filter side. If that solves the issue then at least you can somewhat isolate where the issue is. I know some pump manufacturers quit putting check valves in there pumps but that is usually on the newer rigs.

Now THAT is a smart idea !! 

I just ordered up another new pump. I'm going to see if that cases it just so that I know 100%. But now that you mention it, why not install one in-line anyway? I've had two pumps fail due to the check valve issue. I kept them. They were fine, other than that. If I had installed a check valve, as you suggested, I could have kept using them. I will do it once the new pump is in regardless of whether it fixes the issue or not. Many thanks for a very bright idea!

[W7BE_Bob]

Isolate the problem. Remove a suspected hose and plug both sides of the connection to determine if it's the problem. And/or remove the tank fill hose from the valve and see if that is the source. 

My leak was the pump check valve and I added a quality brass check valve from HD to the hose. 

FYI Owner plumbing is always a suspect. It is not the shower valves as they only connect to the hot and cold lines, nothing to do with filling the tank.

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, W7BE_Bob said:

Isolate the problem. Remove a suspected hose and plug both sides of the connection to determine if it's the problem. And/or remove the tank fill hose from the valve and see if that is the source. 

My leak was the pump check valve and I added a quality brass check valve from HD to the hose. 

FYI Owner plumbing is always a suspect. It is not the shower valves as they only connect to the hot and cold lines, nothing to do with filling the tank.

W7BE..

I started this and have modified it.  Some or maybe all of this will be posted on the recent Remco RV55 Pump Thread.  As a background, we have the SAME MH, save the badges. I read you response and apologize for being confused...so if you can, please follow along and answer some questions. I have talked to the original company that owned the AquaJet 55 which they sold. It was a spinoff or actually a different labeled 12VDC pump for Chemical processes, boating, agricultural spraying, etc. The pumps were all essentially the same, save some seals or specifics. I had an original warranty issue and they replaced mine.  Later on, I flooded it with sewer water....and talked to the tech....about the time they sold the RV version to Remco. I have NO idea if the current Remco pumps are still be made in California or have been outsourced.  SO, I have more than a casual flirtation with them. I also helped folks on the old blog convert and wire and such...

Does or DID your original OEM or replacement have a built in Check Valve?

I do NOT know if mine has one.  I SUSPECT SO....and mine is too far away in storage.  If it did, then this is the replacement part for it.  Per a LOT of comments on Amazon, from folks that seem intelligent, this was an issue, but it dated back 5 years or so.  Ours are 2008's or mine was actually a 2010 replacement.  

Here is a LINK to the ONLY instructions I could FIND on how to install and where is it located....

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Remco-CVK-553-Check-Valve-For-Aquajet-Rebel-p/cvk-553.htm

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/v/vspfiles/assets/pdf/CVK553_Installation.pdf

Where DID you install the NEW Check Valve?  OUTLET or INLET?

I would ASSUME that it was on the outlet....so in effect, you have DUAL Checks....if you had one originally.  If NOT, then you have one NOW.  I also read, or thought I read it, that if you had a failing INTERNAL Check to REMOVE IT if you installed an external one....as that cut down on your PSI... Can you also comment on that?

Finally, Just to make sure we are on the same page...  Your plumbing panel is a booger to PULL OUT... I have seen several folks do that and only the foolhardy or stubborn do it...without losing their sanity. I have taken photos of the back of mine....and will again with an inspection camera.  Our MH's have the MONACO check valve installed or screwed to the City/Fill Valve. This Check Valve was the one that MOST folks said had failed and often, they thought, resulted in backfilling the tank. I MAY have inadvertently fixed my original "tank rising" by cycling on and off the RV55 pump and the check valve sealed better. 

IF ANYONE understands the flow diagram and what the check valve screwed into the City/Fill valve, I SURE would appreciate them posting it... A Diagram would be great....THANKS IN ADVANCE.

 

 

REMCO RV 55 Check Valve CVK553_Installation.pdf

[Bob Jones]

13 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

....IF ANYONE understands the flow diagram and what the check valve screwed into the City/Fill valve, I SURE would appreciate them posting it... A Diagram would be great....THANKS IN ADVANCE.....

 

 

REMCO RV 55 Check Valve CVK553_Installation.pdf 247.4 kB · 0 downloads

It was determined earlier in this thread that the check valve Monaco installs on the left side of the City/Fill valve is there to prevent your pressurized internal water system from going past the City/Fill valve and out the motorhome.

Think of it like this, if you had no water supply hose connected to the City/Fill valve, and that check valve was not there, then when you turned on your water pump, water would come flying out the City/Fill Valve. 

[Tom Cherry]

15 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Yes, my original pump was mounted on the left wall of the wet bay near the floor. There were a lot of pex lines in that area and that made it nearly impossible to adjust the cut out pressure setting on the pump. I decided that if I'm going through the effort of retrofitting a non-exact replacement I might as well move the pump to the floor level and make it easy to replace/adjust. 

Awesome! I'm relocating it to the floor and I have a piece of stainless that I was going to bolt to the floor and I was already thinking of putting some rubber in between the stainless and the floor. I have long flexible water line going to it already so it's just a matter of customizing the lengths. I don't have a controller, but I do have two switches for the pump and apparently that adds a lot of power drain. Since I've gone this far I will likely run a new power feed from the battery to a relay and ensure it has more power than it draws. At that price, I want it to run at full speed. I do have an accumulator, it's about 3 gallons, as I recall, and it's new last year(?), it's not water logged. I'll adjust it according to the cut in on the new pump. 

My whole hope is that this ends the fresh water tank auto-filling when connected to city water. But....the shower could use more pressure and this pump should do that!

There is another THREAD on problems with BACKFILLING the Fresh Tank.  I just posted over there.  So I will be duplicating....but this is also for YOU, as well as OTHERS that have the RV55 Pump.  I also did a LOT of reading today and learned a bunch of stuff...and I have talked to the original Tech Support when it was an AquaJet 55 RV or whatever. AquaJet sold the "rights" to Remco and they did a major upgrade, or maybe a marketing upgrade. I do NOT know if the pump is STILL manufactured by AquaJet in California or if Remco has outsourced it or whatever.  However, in doing all the reading...including finding the ORIGINAL AquaJet Install...and the AMAZON....I found some REAL answers....some of which are contrary to what Monaco DID (OMG...what a surprise) as well as the rationale....so hang on...

First. AquaJet, in WRITING, said to ELIMINATE or remove or bypass an accumulator. That is what they told me, but folks said "Monaco put one in"...so it MUST be OK.  MAYBE Remco has redesigned the pump....but if NOT, the REASON.  The RV55 requires a hard STOP for the pressure regulator to function as well as the OFF to work. Therefore, if I were in your position, I would put a shutoff valve on the Accumulator line (or remove it) so that I had a hard stop.

Next.  I have included the original AquaJet install manual.  Your new pump will have instructions.  BUT, this does, for other folk's benefit, answer the question about the Intellitec controller.  It does RAISE a question for me, electrically.  The inline fuse is redundant...ASSUMING you have a fused source for your switches.  Obviously the Relay option is the best for NO VOLTAGE DROP.  If I understand you, you have two switches.  However, after reading your Owner's Manual, I still have a question.  Are the switches "SPRING LOADED" or momentary contact?  When you push the ON side, does it stay pushed in or does the switch pop back?  If they do, then you DO have an Intellitec Pump Controller.  These switches are in Parallel.  The momentary contact sends voltage to the Intellitec Controller.  They pop back.  The next time EITHER switch is pushed, the controller reverses and shuts off the pump. Unless Monaco put in a THREE way system, like the lights in a room with two switches, then I don't understand how you can turn the pump ON in one location and OFF in the other without the Intellitec. 

The GOOD news, I think is that Remco MAY have redesigned the pump as it is operating at a lower load.  The RV Upgrade site has the amperage at 6.X so the 10 Amp Intellitec or the 7 Amp Intellitec SHOULD work. 

FINALLY....A WORD OF CAUTION.  There are numerous complaints on the Amazon site about WARRANTY issues. I would purchase it through an AUTHORIZED retail or distributor. I ASSUME that RV Upgrades is such...but ASK...  MANY folks have had issues and sometime Remco will help....others...NOT! 

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Aquajet-RV-Water-Pump-p/AQUAJETRV.htm

This is cheaper than Amazon.  There is a link on Amazon to go to the REMCO store...but it was, for me, a dead in.  
Look at the RVUpgradeStore listing.  I would but the Remco Quick Disconnect strainer as that is what came with mine.  That IS NOT included in the pump. The QD fittings should have the ones you can connect....there is also a picture of the CHECK Valve....which is being discussed on the OTHER thread. I BELIEVE that all the pumps have these....but the Check Valve has been or was an issue and supposedly causes your fresh water tank to overflow when hooked up to the city fill....IF IT LEAKS.  Some have installed a brass Check Valve, on the outlet I believe....as the internal check valve is located on the outlet....which makes sense....Here is the LINK to what it looks like and how it is installed.  IF your pump does NOT, probably DOES, have the Check, then that is the fix.  BUT, if it ever fails....removed it and put in a new ONE or remove and put on an external one.  TWO might be an issue....or so folks say...

 https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Aquajet-RV-Water-Pump-p/AQUAJETRV.htm

That should do you....

Aquatec-Aquajet ORV 55 Install Manual.pdf

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Bob Jones said:

It was determined earlier in this thread that the check valve Monaco installs on the left side of the City/Fill valve is there to prevent your pressurized internal water system from going past the City/Fill valve and out the motorhome.

Think of it like this, if you had no water supply hose connected to the City/Fill valve, and that check valve was not there, then when you turned on your water pump, water would come flying out the City/Fill Valve. 

OK, that makes sense.  I did not realize until now that you have two threads going on a similar subject.  That causes some issues.  So, If I read both...

You tried new pumps and new valves and then determined that the check valve on the fill valve has NOT impact on overfilling your tank.  Then you posted a thread about a new pump.  I responded....

SO, if I combine what I understand...

NEW pumps did NOT fix it. 

NEW valves did NOT fix it.

Therefore, I am a bit perplexed that you need a new Remco...other than they are highly rated.  It would seem to me that the following would be the most logical step.

Look at your plumbing again....and you seemed to have great knowledge. If you installed a 1/4 Turn valve on the outlet line of the pump....or put on a check valve with the pump in the circuit....then you have determined IF the check valve in the pump is bad.  

Taking that one step further. IF you install or disconnect (and plug or use a shutoff valve) on the INLET (Fill line) to the fresh tank....then you have again determined which line is doing the "unathorized" filling. 

Your MH...but as someone pointed out....pull or isolate the source....then correct it.  A new RV55 will probably enhance the water system....but it might NOT stop the flow....and it so, then the fill valve, unless someone did a modification, is the ONLY source....

OR maybe I am still a bit confused....which happens.

However, as a MODERATOR....please in the future, do NOT start a separate thread on an open issue or one that is similar.  It just confuses folks and then they are reluctant to give advice......as I was.

I have merged the two threads as they are intertwined....

Thanks for understanding and good luck.  Keep us posted.

[Bob Jones]

Thanks Tom! Lots of great info and sorry about the two threads. 

Here's how it presented;

Everything was fine until a few months ago. Fresh water tank was not self-filling. When it started, a used City/Water valve was installed that was pirated from the hot water tank cut-off. Tank still self-filled. I then installed a NEW City/Water valve, a quality one, and same thing. Conclusion, it should NOT be the City/Water valve...

The other day I installed a new pump to address the issue but, same thing. But...I used the same make/model/brand of pump. This is why I just upped the ante and went with a Remco (that, and the increased pressure/output). 

One bright light in here suggested installing a one-way check valve on the pump to stop it from backfilling, I have one on order and I think this is the smart move regardless of whether a person has an issue or not. I'd say it's 'best practices' to have one - period. That way the owner is *never* relying on the internal one in the pump. 

I DO have an accumulator installed, a large one and I also saw that Aquajet stated (on video) to bypass it, I think for the reasons you mentioned. I don't have the Intellitec controller, just two rocker switches, one by the vanity and one in the wet bay. They are not momentary. I will be installing a relay, if for no other reason than to ensure the power feed to the pump is well beyond requirements. I am re-locating the pump so that it can be serviced or adjusted in seconds, since I think I'm on my fourth? Point being, at this point I'm pulling out all the stops once and for all 🙂 and I want to be able to change pumps out in 5 minutes. 

I saw the reviews on Amazon for the Remco, and it does appear to be clear that they hate Amazon and will not warranty pumps bought from them. It also appears that many folks had problems with their pumps from Amazon and that led to people speculating Amazon is flogging reman or repaired pumps. Hard to say. It appears Remco *requires* you to send the pump back to the specific place you bought it from for warranty service. This is stupid since in the RV industry the client may have bought a new pump in Florida and found that it died in Seattle......I also saw that many people, even when bought according to Remco's wishes, had nothing but problems dealing with the company. It seemed that they just outright denied warranty claims at will all the time. 

My issue is that I'm up in Canada. So getting one at a reasonable price is very hard. As such, I went the Amazon route but what I did was spend the extra $15 for 3rd party two year insurance. I'm looking at it this way, I should know within the normal 30 day return window if the pump is junk. If not, then I'm covered for two years *outside* of Remco. In theory, if it lasts that long then it should be as good as can be expected?

However, I was up at the local irrigation company today and happened to ask them if they sell Remco pumps thinking that might be a way to address possible warranty issues. They didn't. BUT they did sell 12v pumps and wow, did they have some beauties. 

Delevan FSB2 (also called the Fat Boy) which moves 7 (!!) GPM up to 100 PSI. 

Peak power draw is something like 35 amps (!!) I held it in my hands and looked at it, it was remarkable. It looks like a true industrial grade pump. When I bring the new power feed into the wet bay I will make sure I use some of the 10 AWG wire I have left over from the solar install just in case there are issues with the Amazon Remco.

The price of the Delevan Fat Boy? $662 CAD about $521 USD plus taxes. The instructions refer to it as an RV pump.....and....you can buy parts from them for it. Exploded diagram complete with part numbers. It was one heck of an industrial pump that they refer to as an RV pump. 

Anyway, many thanks for the research you did, you nailed the issues I saw and added more that I didn't see and it's greatly appreciated. I'm certain this thread will help others in the future as well. 

I will update the thread with pictures as I go along. I do think the idea of having a check-valve installed should be mandatory since pumps, in general, often seem to have their internal ones fail causing an otherwise good pump to be chucked out. 

I'd sure like to hear if anyone has run the Delevan brand of pumps in their RV. They have smaller ones with less draw and price as well. All I can say is the FB I had in my hand looked like the last pump a person would ever need to buy, especially since all the pump parts are available. The electrical motor itself looked like a lifer, and then some. I've seen bench grinders with motors that did not look as heavy-duty as that one!

 

Product-Brochure-FB2-Series.pdf

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bob Jones

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Thanks Tom! Lots of great info and sorry about the two threads. 

Here's how it presented;

Everything was fine until a few months ago. Fresh water tank was not self-filling. When it started, a used City/Water valve was installed that was pirated from the hot water tank cut-off. Tank still self-filled. I then installed a NEW City/Water valve, a quality one, and same thing. Conclusion, it should NOT be the City/Water valve...

The other day I installed a new pump to address the issue but, same thing. But...I used the same make/model/brand of pump. This is why I just upped the ante and went with a Remco (that, and the increased pressure/output). 

One bright light in here suggested installing a one-way check valve on the pump to stop it from backfilling, I have one on order and I think this is the smart move regardless of whether a person has an issue or not. I'd say it's 'best practices' to have one - period. That way the owner is *never* relying on the internal one in the pump. 

I DO have an accumulator installed, a large one and I also saw that Aquajet stated (on video) to bypass it, I think for the reasons you mentioned. I don't have the Intellitec controller, just two rocker switches, one by the vanity and one in the wet bay. They are not momentary. I will be installing a relay, if for no other reason than to ensure the power feed to the pump is well beyond requirements. I am re-locating the pump so that it can be serviced or adjusted in seconds, since I think I'm on my fourth? Point being, at this point I'm pulling out all the stops once and for all 🙂 and I want to be able to change pumps out in 5 minutes. 

I saw the reviews on Amazon for the Remco, and it does appear to be clear that they hate Amazon and will not warranty pumps bought from them. It also appears that many folks had problems with their pumps from Amazon and that led to people speculating Amazon is flogging reman or repaired pumps. Hard to say. It appears Remco *requires* you to send the pump back to the specific place you bought it from for warranty service. This is stupid since in the RV industry the client may have bought a new pump in Florida and found that it died in Seattle......I also saw that many people, even when bought according to Remco's wishes, had nothing but problems dealing with the company. It seemed that they just outright denied warranty claims at will all the time. 

My issue is that I'm up in Canada. So getting one at a reasonable price is very hard. As such, I went the Amazon route but what I did was spend the extra $15 for 3rd party two year insurance. I'm looking at it this way, I should know within the normal 30 day return window if the pump is junk. If not, then I'm covered for two years *outside* of Remco. In theory, if it lasts that long then it should be as good as can be expected?

However, I was up at the local irrigation company today and happened to ask them if they sell Remco pumps thinking that might be a way to address possible warranty issues. They didn't. BUT they did sell 12v pumps and wow, did they have some beauties. 

Delevan FSB2 (also called the Fat Boy) which moves 7 (!!) GPM up to 100 PSI. 

Peak power draw is something like 35 amps (!!) I held it in my hands and looked at it, it was remarkable. It looks like a true industrial grade pump. When I bring the new power feed into the wet bay I will make sure I use some of the 10 AWG wire I have left over from the solar install just in case there are issues with the Amazon Remco.

The price of the Delevan Fat Boy? $662 CAD about $521 USD plus taxes. The instructions refer to it as an RV pump.....and....you can buy parts from them for it. Exploded diagram complete with part numbers. It was one heck of an industrial pump that they refer to as an RV pump. 

Anyway, many thanks for the research you did, you nailed the issues I saw and added more that I didn't see and it's greatly appreciated. I'm certain this thread will help others in the future as well. 

I will update the thread with pictures as I go along. I do think the idea of having a check-valve installed should be mandatory since pumps, in general, often seem to have their internal ones fail causing an otherwise good pump to be chucked out. 

I'd sure like to hear if anyone has run the Delevan brand of pumps in their RV. They have smaller ones with less draw and price as well. All I can say is the FB I had in my hand looked like the last pump a person would ever need to buy, especially since all the pump parts are available. The electrical motor itself looked like a lifer, and then some. I've seen bench grinders with motors that did not look as heavy-duty as that one!

 

Product-Brochure-FB2-Series.pdf 1.07 MB · 5 downloads

Thanks for understanding about the two threads.  Moving ahead.

I don’t know if one of your pumps that I assume you have us functional.  If so, you might purchase a simple brass check valve.  Then see if that stops the back flow.  You COULD actually plumb in the check valve between the pump inlet and outlet as that would simulate that is happening.  A pump with a functional check valve versus a bypass or hard plumbed check valve will operate the same.  You do not want city water flowing back through the pump to the tank.

if the check valve corrects the problem, then you have located the source.  Otherwise, off to the fill valve.  With all this discussion and me, hopefully having a better understanding, if I have the “self filling” tank issue again, my fix, I believe, due to the nightmare of getting to the valve will be an inline shut off valve on the fresh water fill line….mounted remotely where I can easily turn it on or off…

As to your replacement, I looked at the specs and also compared it to the Remco.  The pump is an energy hog.  At the intended 65 PSI operating pressure for our MH’s, it will consume 22 amps or so….but roughly 3 TIMES the Remco.  Not good for boondocking…. So consider how you use the MH.

NEXT.  You will need to install a pressure regulator….under NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD YOU INSTALL A 90 PSI pump.  Yes, folks hook up out West to 125 PSI….but, they have an inline regulator.  I am not talking about a common hose one….those severely restrict flow.  Probably the cheapest one that I would use is the Valterra that CW sells.  It is their Item 49511.  Regular price is $72.99…sale $47.99.  Watts makes one also or you can buy a home system, adjustable…but you need a gage.  I have used the Valterra since 2015.  We take long trips, so that is the equivalent of at least 22 weeks or maybe 6 months….I could tell you exactly, but would have to pull my Excel file on a laptop and I am on my iPad.  It WORKS.  

IF you regulate the pump to around 65 PSI, you will only have around 4.5 GPM or a 15% flow reduction….yes…there will be a smidge lost in the check valve as well as the regulator….so maybe 20%.  Now, to put that in context….the inline hose regulator that Monaco supplied was horrendous.  My GK & Daughter complained at some CG about pressure and flow when they shampooed.  When I installed the Valterra, it was night and day.  So a cheap inline will throttle back the delivery.  BUT..  if you have one of the home filters….the $25 kind with a cartridge….which may also be in your MH, they are rated at 5 GPM.

You will also need a #10 wire and a resettable or “auto reset” circuit breaker.  The BOSCH relays are good for 30 A. You will need to use solderless or crimped terminals as the inline bases for the relays are limited to 20..some 15A.  They make a phenolic base with screw terminals,  I rewired my Sanicon and used a relay and had direct leads, not an inline base.

This is my conclusion…..you have to make the call….total price of components, including an inline filter….which is a MUST for your pump vs the REMCO and their bowl screen filter.

Keep us informed and good luck.

[Bob Jones]

Update: The one-way check valve came in today and I installed it on the outlet of the pump facing the correct way. I then filled the tank to 99% and waited. It's still leaking out the fresh water overflow 😞 

That leaves the city/water selector valve. The one that I replaced with a lightly used one (from the hot water bypass) and it still leaked, and then, finally, with a brand new valve which also, evidently, leaks. 

Tomorrow I will file off a bit of the handle just in case the limiter on the valve is not letting it close all the way.

I also found out, that on my unit, there is just shy of a 3v drop when the pump is running. Looking at the wiring diagram shows that the power feed to the pump does NOT go through a relay but is actually supplied through the switch on the KIB display in the vanity.....looking more closely shows that the factory used 12AWG to the KIB, then 14AWG to the wet bay switch, and then 12AWG to the pump connector. 

The pump I have now apparently can draw 10 amps. When watching it work, as it gets near the cutout pressure it labors a great deal and gets hot. RPM slows by a lot. I'm now thinking that as the pump gets near cut-out it's both working harder and starving for power. I find myself wondering if I put a relay in there, fed by 10AWG direct off the battery, if the the pump will then fly up to cut-out pressure without laboring any significant amount. I bet it will. 

In the meantime, I still have leaking water. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

A thought occured to me ( that's a dangerous thing LOL ) .  Anyway, are you sure the water is coming from the fresh water tank?  Could a drain valve not be closed completely allowing a leak below?   Why not have the tank level low instead of full so you can see if the level rises.

9 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

Looking at the wiring diagram shows that the power feed to the pump does NOT go through a relay but is actually supplied through the switch on the KIB display in the vanity..

Can you turn the pump on from more places than the vanity?   I have 4 switches to operate my pump.  I have a latching relay on the wall right above the pump.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

A thought occured to me ( that's a dangerous thing LOL ) .  Anyway, are you sure the water is coming from the fresh water tank?  Could a drain valve not be closed completely allowing a leak below?   Why not have the tank level low instead of full so you can see if the level rises.

Can you turn the pump on from more places than the vanity?   I have 4 switches to operate my pump.  I have a latching relay on the wall right above the pump.

Ray, I THINK his issue is the Fresh Water Tank overflowing via the overfill outlet.  There should be only 3 piping connections.  Bottom is the pump suction line….he has put a check valve on that.  Therefore, in theory, any back flow from the city or the house plumbing system should be stopped. NOW…if there is a T or a connection for using the pump suction to circulate or fill the house system with RV antifreeze and someone inadvertently connected something….OR there is a shut off valve and it is connected to another “tap” into house system…and that valve is leaking….that could be the source…all speculative of course,

second is is the incoming fill line at the top.  That comes or should be directly connected to city/fill valve.  

Then there is an overflow from the top of the tank.  It is plumbed to drain out the bottom 

One other thought and this is more of a question for the group.  I can’t “see” where my fresh tank is connected.  I always ASSUMED it was a “T” coming from the pump suction line..  Maybe there is a FOURTH outlet.

I think that Bob is going to have to pull off, one at a time or all and see which one is dripping or leaking. 

[Bob Jones]

Yup, the original issue is the fresh water tank self-over filling. As a result of researching all of this I realized that Monaco, in 2000 anyway, did not use a relay to power the pump and that there is massive voltage drop to the pump likely resulting in sub-par performance. That will be addressed as soon as my 30' of 10 AWG wire shows up (don't know how much I need, will run as short as possible for less voltage drop). 

There is now a check valve installed on the outlet of the pump. There is no way for water to backflow through the pump at this time. This leaves the new 3-way City/Water valve that I installed as the likely culprit. 

I will take the handle off the valve and then cycle it further (round in circles?) in the hopes that it might free up something if it's stuck in there. Barring that, I will have to remove it (again, 4th time) and then strip it down and inspect it. It is theoretically possible that the cast stop on the valve (see pic) that prevents the valve ever from turning further is not allowing the valve to close 100%. By removing the lever I can turn it further and see if it stops. 

Here's some pics to illustrate what the wet bay looks like. The pump will be relocated once the Remco shows up but for now it's ideal to have it lying there. BTW, installing the check valve did result in a restriction in the water flow. Perhaps the Remco will solve all of that. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Bob Jones

[96 EVO]

Mighty clean wet bay 🙂!!