Camelot Front Sun and Privacy Shade Wiring Diagram

[CaptPat]

The front sun screen on my coach has stopped working, troubleshooting is difficult as there appears to be several connections and perhaps a relay above and behind the cabinetry above the driver seat.  Hard to reach and harder to see what's going on.  If someone can point me to a wiring diagram I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

[jacwjames]

On place to check for a wiring diagram is the downloads section, they are sorted by year and model. 

Do you know what kind of shade you have.  I have Carefree of Colorado, one of my motors failed and I had to replace.  I know there is also a fuse in my drivers side front electrical bay, but the fuse is for both shades so if one works the fuse is good.

[CaptPat]

I don’t know what brand of shades I have.  I have ID’d the fuse in the front electrical bay and it appears to be good.  I suspect that it’s either the switch on the drivers left console or the wiring the behind the cabinetry above the driver.  I’m betting it’s the latter as there appears to be several connectors from the shade motor that are not connected to anything.  Can’t really tell how to connect things back up due to lack of visibility, there appears to be a relay (at least it feels like an automotive relay) up there as well how that fits in I don’t know.  I may get a boroscope to snake up there to get a better view of it. I’ve checked the download section and so far all I can find is a diagram of the front electrical bay that has anything pertaining to the visors, so far I can’t find a diagram of the wiring to the shade itself.  Once I verify that everything is wired correctly then I can figure out where the fault is.

[Tom Cherry]

12 minutes ago, CaptPat said:

I don’t know what brand of shades I have.  I have ID’d the fuse in the front electrical bay and it appears to be good.  I suspect that it’s either the switch on the drivers left console or the wiring the behind the cabinetry above the driver.  I’m betting it’s the latter as there appears to be several connectors from the shade motor that are not connected to anything.  Can’t really tell how to connect things back up due to lack of visibility, there appears to be a relay (at least it feels like an automotive relay) up there as well how that fits in I don’t know.  I may get a boroscope to snake up there to get a better view of it. I’ve checked the download section and so far all I can find is a diagram of the front electrical bay that has anything pertaining to the visors, so far I can’t find a diagram of the wiring to the shade itself.  Once I verify that everything is wired correctly then I can figure out where the fault is.

OK,

some of this is memory…..some from circuitry …..some from other posts.

The front shades and visor are NOT the usual brand…..or the ones folks upgrade to or add.  They are a Canadian import that I have seen some names or sources in IRV2.  So….they are unique.

Next is the name.   I reversed mine.  The “shade” is now the SOLID.  The Visor is the “see through”. Is the Sun screen.  So, the switches are are TOTALLY different as is the wiring.  I pulled mine out or up by snapping them out.  i was gonna reverse the switches.  OPPS.  The solid one has more wires and gets the Transmission signal.  It will only work when in neutral and maybe going less than 5 MPH….I fake it out sometimes to readjust.

The original Monaco 2009 wiring has the wrong diagram.  The shades were a late model change.  The early 2008, maybe in spring, then they swapped and went with the solid shades across the front….but IMPORTED.

We MAY have two different sets of prints in the files.  I gave Frank mine.  They may be another newer set.  

OK….this is what I would check.  Snap out the switches. The GROUND, I think, is actually a “common tie point”.  It had 3 or four leads into ONE spade lug.  Just barely connected.  It pulled apart….and I said….OPPS.  I then had to splice two together with one out.  So 2 turned into 1.  Then the second.  So, I had 2 on the spade lug.  

That has worked.  So….look for loose connections.

other info….IRV2….

.my rv has the auto motion shades one of the motors isn't working and they say they don't sell the motors but monaco sent me numbers for the motors. any idea how to buy or replace motor? motor EL-4260-xxxx-AMS and EL-215-1230-asm

We have a 2009 Camelot, the front shades are made by Automotion in Canada

Ron: If you find that your shades are Automation let me know if you are able to buy just the motor. I have the Automation shades and lost a motor and wound up having to buy the entire shade to the tune of about $300 as they wouldn't sell me just the motor. This is my basic gripe with their shade vs MCD.

From a post on the Tiffin owners group on this site. Might see if you can get the motor there.

"Tiffin parts still stock replacement motors for the Automotion shades. I ordered a spare motor this morning. The cost was around $73.00"

That’s about as much as I can help.  The 2010 or 2011 prints will probably have the circuit.

 

 

[OhReally]

CaptPat, the relay that you see is most likely a circuit to prevent the opaque visor from coming down and blocking your vision while the engine is running. The relay should feed the power to your visors only when sitting still or engine running.

-Jamie 

[96 EVO]

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

We have a 2009 Camelot, the front shades are made by Automotion in Canada

 

 

 

Wow!

That is a nice upgrade from the curtains and powered sun visors installed in '08 and previous years!

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Wow!

That is a nice upgrade from the curtains and powered sun visors installed in '08 and previous years!

YES.  A friend bought an early 2009.  It was delivered in November, 2008.  Lazy Days said that it was the 2009 Camelot that they had seen with the solid or across the windshield Shade/Visor.  I assumed that some of the early 2009's were TWO SHADES....each side.  That is how my PRINTS are drawn.  There is a Relay on the FRB PCB.  

Frank gets credit for my knowledge here.  His 08 Dynasty is that way.....but I don't have a print.

FWIW.

The TWO SHADE Dynasty and Camelot of 2008 (earlier?) have TWO different sets of circuits.....TOTALLY WILD.  The Drivers's SIDE switch, which controls the Passenger side, is a DPDT switch....it merely reverses polarity.  NOW, there are INTERLOCKS as well.  BUT, the OTHER circuit....on the PASSENGER SIDE or Switch is a SPDT switch that controls a RELAY.  That RELAY also reverses.....  If that is confusing.....download a Dynasty Print.  Almost BLACK MAGIC.....but it works that way.

Good Luck...

[96 EVO]

Possibly cause the passenger shade can be controlled from both seats. The drivers shade, only from the drivers seat.

[CaptPat]

16 hours ago, OhReally said:

CaptPat, the relay that you see is most likely a circuit to prevent the opaque visor from coming down and blocking your vision while the engine is running. The relay should feed the power to your visors only when sitting still or engine running.

-Jamie 

Can't see it only feel it, the only way to see it would be to remove all of the front cabinetry above the driver.  We're the original owners and I can't remember a time where a visor didn't work (until recently of course) because the engine was running or the transmission not in neutral. 

Still looking for a circuit diagram. 

[Tom Cherry]

16 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Wow!

That is a nice upgrade from the curtains and powered sun visors installed in '08 and previous years!

Need to clarify so we are all on the same page.  The FULL WIDTH shades were an running change in the 2009.  The drawings call for TWO individual shades.  However, Monaco put in the FULL Length shades without updating prints....

If there is a Full Length (both the solid and sunscreen) then there IS no control switch on the passenger side.  That switch was eliminated.  Only the driver's left console  has control.

If there are TWO shades, then there are TWO switches.  There will be a relay in the FRB marked Passenger Shade.  That is how my prints read....but I have (July 2008 build) the FULL Length shades.

The print that has the INDIVIDUAL SHADES .... is the SAME as the 2008 Dynasty.  That set of prints is in the 2008 Dynasty files.  That circuit works by having a DPDT switch on the Driver's side.  There is a SPDT switch on the Passenger side and it works the Relay.  The Passenger side is FUNKY....as you have to follow the logic (contorted as it is) to see how the switch controls it as well as how the relay works.

Just trying to clarify if the problem is for a FULL Length (one control....Drivers) or individual (Dual Controls) system.  If Full Length, then find a 2010 or 2011 Camelot/Scepter diagram as it SHOULD have the single switch.

Good Luck....

[CaptPat]

13 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Possibly cause the passenger shade can be controlled from both seats. The drivers shade, only from the drivers seat.

We have a single privacy screen and single sun shade that covers the entire windshield are.  They are controlled by individual switches on the driver's left hand console.

4 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

If Full Length, then find a 2010 or 2011 Camelot/Scepter diagram as it SHOULD have the single switch.

 

I thought 2009 was the last model year before Monaco went out of business, I know we got our MH either just before or just after they closed shop.

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, CaptPat said:

We have a single privacy screen and single sun shade that covers the entire windshield are.  They are controlled by individual switches on the driver's left hand console.

I thought 2009 was the last model year before Monaco went out of business, I know we got our MH either just before or just after they closed shop.

First.  Then you need to find the prints for the 2010/2011 as they are the right ones.  UNFORTUNATELY....we do NOT have them in the files.  We actually have an EARLY set and a LATER set of 2009 Camelot Prints....but NEITHER gives you the information you need.  I will keep searching.

Second.  When Navistar purchased Monaco, there was maybe a 5 months period of time where there was no production and they were in the hands of the receiver and finally started up the lines.  ALL the MH's that were FROZEN or sitting partially assembled (STILL INSDE the factory) were (MAYBE INCONSISTENTLY) upgraded to 2010 model years. There was a quick art work done for the 2010 Sales Brochures.  That too less time than fixing things.

SO.  Navistar actually made the MONACO MH's until the sale to REV.  That covered MH 2010 and 2011....Can't recall about 2012.  When Navistar sold to REV, the FIRST decision was to TOTALLY abandon the Roadmaster Chassis.  THIS IS FACT....from folks involved or privy to what was going on in the factory.  Rev brought in their inside and outside Financial Audit teams.  There were Monaco employees that identified EVERY little machine, welder, former, etc. that was part of the CHASSIS fabrication.  Each had an asset tag and was listed on a "Capital Asset Depreciation Report".  Then they inventoried ALL the parts that went in.  That was from STEEL to Monaco "Sub Assemblies" to shocks, air bags, axles, spindles, brakes.....cut airline hoses.....every nut, bolt and screw.  

THEN....all the parts (Capital Assets and Raw Materials) were marked with a BIG TAG.  There were guards to keep them isolated.  Rev brought in riggers and movers and all were put in rolloff containers.  ALL under the watchful eye of the TWO Financial Audit teams.  THEN, they were transported, like a military convoy, to a scrap yard and DESTROYED.

The ONLY THING that was NOT taken out.....during the first wave....was the REAR END axles and the Front Axles.  REV was trying to get Dana and whoever, to take them back minus a restocking charge.  That, supposedly....as the folks involved were phased out....didn't work.

WHY....YOU ASK.  Because Rev was taking a MAJOR asset writeoff.  I mean a BIG ONE.  So, they virtually paid very little for the Monaco name and NEVER intended to build another Roadmaster MH again.  I can NOT speak for the Towables and such....but this is the MH side.

There were companies and repair shops all over the US that were clamoring for replacement parts.....NOPE.  ALL OR NOTHING.  The baby went out with the bathwater....so say a "chassis bushing" that was proprietary and made only for Monaco.  They had value.  BUT, they were NOT sold.....

This, in effect, TOTALLY destroyed the Roadmaster Chassis.  NOW, there were some chassis folks that "knew" who made the parts and they can get some. 

Likewise, NW RV bought up everything ELSE....and stored it in several warehouses.  They sold it and still, I think, have some old spare parts.  They had windows and an unbelievable amount of stuff.  I was in their warehouse in 2018 and it was like a time vault.  Things were stacked, and generally cataloged....and there were THREE folks that "KNEW" where they went.  That is why when folks say NW RV....if you need a special part or something, they want a picture....

That is the story....and I believe, since it was verified by several folks, it is the TRUTH....

[CaptPat]

Okay, looks like I'll need to troubleshoot w/o prints for now. First order of business is to connect up the disconnected wires now if only I had a 7 foot arm with 3 or 4 elbows....

[birdshill123]

Tom. Thank ypu for the Rev story. But reading it makes my blood boil. Rev is as bad as Navistar. Getting back to the shades. Our 08 Dynasty has the 2 Catefree shades. My driver side stopped working. I had it in a shop in Tucson for other work and they said it was the motor. Nothing in stock. Once I returned the unit to my shop in Mexico I fooled around and it would work in one direction. I removed the shade and gerry rigged a test stand. By changing the wires it reverses. It worked perfectly. Started lookomg at the overhead coach wiring and Monaco used those Blue crimps. But the wires were more like 18 ga. One had  a loose crimp. Fixed it,reinstalled blind and all is good.

 

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

51 minutes ago, birdshill123 said:

Tom. Thank ypu for the Rev story. But reading it makes my blood boil. Rev is as bad as Navistar. Getting back to the shades. Our 08 Dynasty has the 2 Catefree shades. My driver side stopped working. I had it in a shop in Tucson for other work and they said it was the motor. Nothing in stock. Once I returned the unit to my shop in Mexico I fooled around and it would work in one direction. I removed the shade and gerry rigged a test stand. By changing the wires it reverses. It worked perfectly. Started lookomg at the overhead coach wiring and Monaco used those Blue crimps. But the wires were more like 18 ga. One had  a loose crimp. Fixed it,reinstalled blind and all is good.

 

 

 

I’m glad my “stories” are useful and informative.  Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction,  in my past life, I had to make decisions on keeping or selling.  Not to defend REV, but it was marketing driven.  My hypothesis….  They do NOT want to design and build chassis.  Maybe they do?  Maybe they purchase?  Only the “experienced” folks that we have here understand the qualities of the Roadmaster chassis…..despite some handling warts and such.

BUT the general public recognizes the Monaco name.  Think GM selling the Cadillac division to “Toyota” or Mazda or Hyundai….and then rebadging a vehicle with an MSRP half that of a certain model Caddy….give it a new name.  Caddy likes initials…..ATS, CRS, XT5…..whatever.  Give ur a catchy 3 letter model…XQL.  Extra Quality and Luxury..  Then slap that badge on a similar sized wheelbase and sell it for 2/3 of the comparable Caddy model.  

THAT is what REV is doing,  I helped do that in hand tools.  If a wrench was technically an “Adjustable” wrench, then our Crescent was the daddy rabbit.  We made precision electronic side cutters, but there was a trade name that was the accepted standard.  We bought the company.  We stopped marketing ours.  We then copied and produced the higher perceived….higher priced tool on our equipment or the machines and tooling we brought in.

REV eliminated the completion from a startup company getting the machinery and jugs and tooling and “cloned copies” of the prints.  They also got to write off a lot of “good will” by abandoning the Roadmaster name…..but kept the big sellers like the Dynasty and the Monaco name and the HR Ambassador.  Now these are examples of what they COULD do.  I have never looked at their website and have no desire to….but that is how the rationalization and consolidation is done.  I moved or closed or consolidated 35 separate plants, office or warehouses….30 of which in a 19 year period,  I know the game,  

Your second point needs a big flashing banner.  I have repaired at least 10 or so “bad/poor crimped” terminals or butt splices on my Camelot.  I tell tales and folks scoff…. IT LOOKS OK.  It is fine,,,,,I just don’t have 12 VDC where I need it or the ground is bad.  

I just finished helping a buddy sort out a nightmare 20 amp circuit with a Microwave outlet and THREE individual GFCI’S and 4 branch, protected outlets.  It was so old that the GFCI has built in leads and were soldered to the Romex.  He had a voltage drop when hooking up a downstream GCFI after he replaced the one in line upstream.  He is NOT a dummy….but he did not know some basic rules about troubleshooting and had wired additions and such. First, had to rewire one GFCI that was on the LOAD side of an upstream one.  Then STILL had a 20 VAC drop, when he connected the line to it….and it would not power a 100 watt bulb.  The line in read, no load, not connected, 120 VAC….but just connecting the GFCI dropped it to the 95 range.  FINALLY….he decided, while waiting for an electrician, he did not like the “orientation” of the upstream one he had just installed.  It was in a quad box and the #12 was a PITA.  I told him to replace the LOAD leads with #14 as it was a  15 Amp receptacle.  In doing so, he barely tugged on the LINE IN & OUT #12 leads on the top.  OPPS….the insulation was holding in broken conductor on the dual wire terminal.  Fixed….all is well.  That is what happens to us….as we drive our toys and they vibrate.

Glad you got it fixed.  I was NOT aware that the individual shades were carefree….so I learned.