Original Trace to Xantrex Inverter Upgrade - AGS questions - 2003 Windsor

[InGodWeTrust]

Any insights would help. Replaced rv2012 inverter with sw3012 all went well except currently hung up on wiring for AGS 20 point connecter. 2012 only utilized 3 of the four incoming wires green, brown, red labeled gen run 1& 2; gen start 1 & 2. Green wire (gen run 2) was pigtailed into 2 green wire wing nut, 1st brown wire (gen run 1) 2nd brown (gen start 1) all tied into brown incoming feed. Red (gen start 1) pigtailed into incoming red feed. Blue (not used) not sure what this is? Anyhow these are the photos any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Tom Cherry]

13 minutes ago, InGodWeTrust said:

Any insights would help. Replaced rv2012 inverter with sw3012 all went well except currently hung up on wiring for AGS 20 point connecter. 2012 only utilized 3 of the four incoming wires green, brown, red labeled gen run 1& 2; gen start 1 & 2. Green wire (gen run 2) was pigtailed into 2 green wire wing nut, 1st brown wire (gen run 1) 2nd brown (gen start 1) all tied into brown incoming feed. Red (gen start 1) pigtailed into incoming red feed. Blue (not used) not sure what this is? Anyhow these are the photos any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Pull your original inverter and AGS Prints or pull the original inverter & ags manual.  You also need to pull the ONAN Manual.  There is only 5 or six wires used on my Magnum AGS.  I do know that the ONANS, typically, per talking to Magnum, were configured as “NEGATIVE START”.  IF you look at how your remote generator start and stop switch, then that tells you, with the ONAN manual how it works.  

if that doesn’t help, then maybe someone will chime in, but you should also be able to get your new inverter’s tech support to help,  

What is not clear to me is whether you are trying to salvage your old AGS, which may or may not be compatible with your new inverter or if you have a new AGS, same brand as the new inverter….  If you are salvaging, then you are going to have to understand the wiring….which means sitting down with 3 separate systems (inverter, AGS & ONAN) and then following the needs of the ONAN….as you do not want to reverse as your remote switches wouldn’t work.

Good Luck….

Good luck…

[InGodWeTrust]

26 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Pull your original inverter and AGS Prints or pull the original inverter & ags manual.  You also need to pull the ONAN Manual.  There is only 5 or six wires used on my Magnum AGS.  I do know that the ONANS, typically, per talking to Magnum, were configured as “NEGATIVE START”.  IF you look at how your remote generator start and stop switch, then that tells you, with the ONAN manual how it works.  

if that doesn’t help, then maybe someone will chime in, but you should also be able to get your new inverter’s tech support to help,  

What is not clear to me is whether you are trying to salvage your old AGS, which may or may not be compatible with your new inverter or if you have a new AGS, same brand as the new inverter….  If you are salvaging, then you are going to have to understand the wiring….which means sitting down with 3 separate systems (inverter, AGS & ONAN) and then following the needs of the ONAN….as you do not want to reverse as your remote switches wouldn’t work.

Good Luck….

Good luck…

Thanks Tom, 

I tried pulling up documentation from Onan 7.5 QD HDKA but nothing that references wiring schematic need to dig further. As for AGS system it's the newer AGS connected via xanbus 809-0915. I really cringe with the possibility of crossing wires hopefully Xantrex tech support can help. 

[waterskier_1]

This diagram is for a 2005 Knight, but the colors and functions of the Gen Start should be the same, or very similar.  What is not clear from the documentation you provided is HOW the relays for Start and Stop work.  What the Onan generator is looking for is about 12 Seconds on the START wire and then an open.  The same for the STOP wire.  This simulates you holding the Start Button (or Stop Button) for 12 seconds and then releasing.  That should be sufficient time to Start or Stop the Generator.  What is does NOT want is a constant voltage for the whole time (i.e., like you indefinitely hold the button) for either the Start or Stop function. 

  -Rick N. 

2005 Knight AGS Wiring Diag.pdf

[jacwjames]

The blue wire on my coach was used as the generator sense wire for the BIRD, Intellitec EMS, and then it went to the generator start switch in my bedroom for the light.  The blue wire was just wire nutted together in the inverter. 

[InGodWeTrust]

4 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

This diagram is for a 2005 Knight, but the colors and functions of the Gen Start should be the same, or very similar.  What is not clear from the documentation you provided is HOW the relays for Start and Stop work.  What the Onan generator is looking for is about 12 Seconds on the START wire and then an open.  The same for the STOP wire.  This simulates you holding the Start Button (or Stop Button) for 12 seconds and then releasing.  That should be sufficient time to Start or Stop the Generator.  What is does NOT want is a constant voltage for the whole time (i.e., like you indefinitely hold the button) for either the Start or Stop function. 

  -Rick N. 

2005 Knight AGS Wiring Diag.pdf 338.19 kB · 8 downloads

Thanks for pdf not sure why they have 2 greens, 2 reds, and 2 browns coming from generator on my onan 7.5 qd. 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, InGodWeTrust said:

Thanks for pdf not sure why they have 2 greens, 2 reds, and 2 browns coming from generator on my onan 7.5 qd. 

Wonder if the wires were daisy chained to something else???  They might have originated from the generator but go to something else or visa versa

[jacwjames]

I went back and looked at photos I took when I removed my inverter and it was the same way,  Had wires coming in and going out.  I think these are the wires that go to my bedroom generator start switch.  Just an educated guess, don't know for sure. 

[InGodWeTrust]

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

I went back and looked at photos I took when I removed my inverter and it was the same way,  Had wires coming in and going out.  I think these are the wires that go to my bedroom generator start switch.  Just an educated guess, don't know for sure. 

That does make sense forgot about switch inside bedroom. Did you have same colors? Red, green, & brown, blue was not connected. 

[jacwjames]

Yes, same colors.

Back 2 years ago there was a poster on IRV2 with a new to them 2002 Windsor who was having trouble with the EMS, it wasn't recognizing that the generator was running.  Had him check the generator sense wire, no 12 volts when generator was running.  He also said the generator start switch in the bedroom wasn't lite. 

Had him check the generator sense on the BIRD, no 12 volt

Then had him go to the inverter  >>>>>  There wasn't one, someone replaced the inverter with an converter.  But the two wires were there but not connected together.  He tied them together and got his EMS working and then had to try and source and install an inverter. 

Quote

 

 

[InGodWeTrust]

Wow that was a disapointing find but atleast it was discovered and solved. 

[waterskier_1]

The Blue wire is a 12VDC signal that the generator is running.  It is often used to power the Generator Hour Meter (if remote from the generator), the indicator lights at the switches and the transfer switch.  

  -Rick N.

[InGodWeTrust]

Interesting.  Well one color down and only three to go. Thanks Rick

[waterskier_1]

14 minutes ago, InGodWeTrust said:

Interesting.  Well one color down and only three to go. Thanks Rick

All the colors are labeled in my diagram posted above.  Do you have specific question? 

  - Rick N 

[InGodWeTrust]

1 hour ago, waterskier_1 said:

All the colors are labeled in my diagram posted above.  Do you have specific question? 

  - Rick N 

Yes,  this diagram was a big help my issue is on the AGS side of the connection not sure which gen start/run to connect. Diagram shows 3 relay 1's open, closed, and common so, according to pdf I believe that would be the brown wire. Which relay should I connect this to? 

Edited March 26, 2023 by InGodWeTrust

[wamcneil]

Here's what Trace documentation says about connecting to Onan generator, and the Onan wiring diagram showing which wires are E C and A. Should be able to match this information up with wiring instructions for the new inverter.

[waterskier_1]

Ok, I copied a page out of the Xantrex AGS Manual (page 78) and highlighted the instructions on how to connect to an Onan Generator with the colors of the Onan Generator Start/Stop switch wires.  I hope this will sort your issue.  Let me know if you need more info.

  -Rick N

975-0082-01-01_Rev-FXanbus-AGS-Owners-Guide.pdf

[InGodWeTrust]

5 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

Ok, I copied a page out of the Xantrex AGS Manual (page 78) and highlighted the instructions on how to connect to an Onan Generator with the colors of the Onan Generator Start/Stop switch wires.  I hope this will sort your issue.  Let me know if you need more info.

  -Rick N

975-0082-01-01_Rev-FXanbus-AGS-Owners-Guide.pdf 3.87 MB · 1 download

Thank you so much Rick that is exactly what I needed apparently didn't read that part but, to be honest I still wouldn't have figured out without your color depiction. Xantrex support did also include blue wire in connection connected to  pin 12 and pin 13 tied into  pin's 16 and 18. Anyhow thank you so much for all your help truly appreciate all your help. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Thank you everyone for your input finally got it squared away. For anyone connecting AGS from a rv2012 to a sw3012 this is the breakdown. 

Genset Green-pin 14

"" Brown- pin 16,18,13

"" Red- pin 17

"" Blue- pin 12

Hope this helps.