dandick66 Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 31 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Here is the installations instructions of the PPV that I found with the orientation shown. I had initially installed mine wrong and when I posted a picture on IRV2 someone said they were installed upside down. Searched a bunch of sites and finally found the instructions. Changed all of mine to the correct orientation. PPV installation instructions.pdf 725.89 kB · 3 downloads I would think this valve, the PCCV would be installed the same way - pointing down. It makes sense. The theory of operation is similar, I think. The PPV only allows airflow above a certain PSI. The PCCV allows airflow one way until a certain pressure is reached, then turns into a check valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 I was going to mention that, and could have saved you a trip! Sorry bout that! Are you noticing any difference in air loss with your aux leveling tank PPV plugged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 22 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: I was going to mention that, and could have saved you a trip! Sorry bout that! Are you noticing any difference in air loss with your aux leveling tank PPV plugged? I didn’t get it plugged until this afternoon. I will see if it drops any overnight. One thing I noticed is my PPVs are different than the ones I’ve seen mentioned here. Here’s a screenshot from the REV website. I haven’t seen this type advertised before. Also, mine appear to drop out at about 45 PSI instead of 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Yeah, a little different. Think I would still position that vent hole down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted May 25, 2023 Author Share Posted May 25, 2023 23 hours ago, 96 EVO said: I was going to mention that, and could have saved you a trip! Sorry bout that! Are you noticing any difference in air loss with your aux leveling tank PPV plugged? Well, I got the valve reoriented today. I looked at pressures before draining the tanks to reposition the valve. It was still losing about 1 PSI per hour. I’ll install the new brake hose tomorrow and look at pressures before I start. I think I’m finally getting to the end of this project. I wonder if I should replace my PPVs based on the condition of the charging valve. Plus, they seem to be cutting out around 45 PSI instead of 65 PSI. Does that mean they are starting to fail/get weak? I looked online for this style PPV and can’t find them. I certainly don’t want to pay REV $61 each. I guess I could put “normal” PPVs in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 I can't see a reason why your air system would be different than the rest of us. Your call, but I would be replacing them with standard 65psi valves. Your 1psi per hour loss is pretty decent! I wouldn't get dirty again till it get's worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, dandick66 said: I looked online for this style PPV and can’t find them. I guess I could put “normal” PPVs in. Can you elaborate a little about your style of PPV as opposed to a normal PPV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ray Davis said: Can you elaborate a little about your style of PPV as opposed to a normal PPV? Ray, look up about 4 posts. Maybe not showing up on your device. This is a 2012 coach. They have gone fancy and covered the valves in plastic. Edited May 25, 2023 by 96 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Ray, look up about 4 posts. Maybe not showing up on your device. Oh ok, it's that black thing, that is odd, it sure doesn't look like mine. Thanks Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 I'll bet they look just like yours under that plastic cover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Pull one of he PPV's off and clean it, you will find a number you can match to. Take it apart and inspect, if you see signs of corrosion go ahead and replace, if not put it back on but keep the number recorded if you need to have in the future. I bought mine from Advance Auto, it is a common part, paid ~$17 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: I'll bet they look just like yours under that plastic cover! Probably does. 7 minutes ago, jacwjames said: it is a common part, I did have a little difficulty finding one of mine. It looked the same as the others except it had an extra port. The others had a place for the port but it was not drilled & threaded. The pictures on Amazon showed the port and a plug to screw into it if necessary but when it arrived it didn't have the extra port. I found the right one a couple of towns over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 Hey, no one want's to re-invent the wheel! Just make it look fancier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 10 hours ago, Ray Davis said: I did have a little difficulty finding one of mine. It looked the same as the others except it had an extra port. The others had a place for the port but it was not drilled & threaded. The pictures on Amazon showed the port and a plug to screw into it if necessary but when it arrived it didn't have the extra port. I found the right one a couple of towns over. Yes, had two types, the difference being the extra port. I went and standardized buying 4 with the extra port and just added the plug that was provided. I lie KISS method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted May 26, 2023 Author Share Posted May 26, 2023 I replaced the spring brake hose and started the coach and let the pressure build up. Then I released the parking brake and noticed I was still losing pressure. So, back under the coach only to discover the other spring brake hose leaking. I should have checked both hoses initially, but I was so excited to find a leak that I didn’t think about it. I decided to check the other hoses, but had to wait for my son to come over so he could push the brake pedal. What a surprise. Both tags and the right front hose had leaks. I had 2 hoses replaced 3 years ago when I took it to a shop to try and find leaks. So, counting the hose I just replaced and the 2 that were replaced 3 years ago, that is a total of 7 bad hoses. I might as well replace the last hose, too. I wonder if there was a bad batch of hoses in 2012. I hope I have time to get the hoses off and new ones made tomorrow. Standby for updates… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted May 26, 2023 Share Posted May 26, 2023 3 hours ago, dandick66 said: I replaced the spring brake hose and started the coach and let the pressure build up. Then I released the parking brake and noticed I was still losing pressure. So, back under the coach only to discover the other spring brake hose leaking. I should have checked both hoses initially, but I was so excited to find a leak that I didn’t think about it. I decided to check the other hoses, but had to wait for my son to come over so he could push the brake pedal. What a surprise. Both tags and the right front hose had leaks. I had 2 hoses replaced 3 years ago when I took it to a shop to try and find leaks. So, counting the hose I just replaced and the 2 that were replaced 3 years ago, that is a total of 7 bad hoses. I might as well replace the last hose, too. I wonder if there was a bad batch of hoses in 2012. I hope I have time to get the hoses off and new ones made tomorrow. Standby for updates… Very interesting - 7 leaking air brake hoses. We very rarely see a post with a single air brake hose leaking. Are the leaking hoses actually labeled with writing that says DOT Air Brake Hose? I'm assuming that your replacement hoses have DOT Air Brake Hose printed on them or have the code J1402 printed on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted May 26, 2023 Author Share Posted May 26, 2023 17 hours ago, Frank McElroy said: Very interesting - 7 leaking air brake hoses. We very rarely see a post with a single air brake hose leaking. Are the leaking hoses actually labeled with writing that says DOT Air Brake Hose? I'm assuming that your replacement hoses have DOT Air Brake Hose printed on them or have the code J1402 printed on them. Yes, the hoses are labeled DOT/J1402. They were Gates brand. I questioned it too, but I replaced the hoses today and am pleased to report that the leaks are fixed. I pulled the remaining 4 bad hoses and the 1 good hose and took them to a shop to get new hoses made. I replaced the hoses and then started the coach and let it build up pressure. Then I depressed the brake pedal for 2 minutes and there was no drop in pressure. After that I left the parking brake disengaged for 30 minutes and there was no drop in pressure. Thank you for all the help in solving this problem. I learned a lot. I will post a detailed “Lessons Learned “ this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted June 3, 2023 Author Share Posted June 3, 2023 Here is the AAR/Lessons Learned from my air leak debacle. I owe a world of thanks to Frank, Ben, Bill R, Jim J, Tom and everyone else who offered advice and encouragement. BLUF - Drain your air tanks periodically and perform the pre-trip brake test. Drain the wet tank first, then the front, then the rear. When you drain the wet tank, the front and rear tanks should hold their pressure. When you drain the front tank, the rear tank should hold pressure. Finally, drain the rear tank. Background - Coach is a 2012 Diplomat 43DFT. I purchased it in December 2017. This was my first diesel pusher and first time with air brakes. Ever since I’ve owned it I’ve noticed the air compressor cycle every 2 or 3 minutes while driving. I didn’t think anything about it because “it’s always done that”. The coach held air for at least a few days while parked. About 3 years ago I noticed the coach was losing all the air overnight. I went to a local bus garage and they said they’d look at it. They replaced 2 brake hoses (passenger side steer and driver side drive) and the governor. When I got it home it still lost air overnight. I decided to just live with it. In early May 2023 I decided I would try to see if I could find the source of the leak(s). I followed the pre-trip brake checklist - admittedly, this was the first time I did the checklist - and discovered problems with my tanks. With the help of Frank, Ben and Bill, I was able to determine that my shuttle valve and pressure control check valve (PCCV) were bad. I replaced the valves and still had problems. I found out the new PCCV was defective. The check valve portion was working, but it was not allowing the air back flow for regeneration. Ben suggested I put the old valve back in. So, back under the coach again… I put the old valve back in and the regeneration was working, but the check valve was still defective. I ordered another PCCV. At this point I also discovered I had a leaking spring brake hose. I had never before crawled under the coach with the wheels chocked and parking brake released. I could hear the hose leaking. I was so excited to find my problem, that I went and god a new hose made. When the replacement PCCV and new hose was installed everything appeared to be working properly, but I still had a leak with the parking brake off. I discovered the other spring brake hose was leaking, too. In my excitement I never thought about checking the second hose. I decided to check all the hoses. I had my son come over and apply the brakes. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Both tag hoses were leaking as well as the passenger side drive hose and the driver side steer hose. So, that was 7 of the 8 hoses leaking in the past 3 years. I decided to also replace the 1 hose that wasn’t leaking. I figured it was going to leak soon. I replaced all the hoses and checked for leaks. Everything is working as it’s supposed to now. I have learned so much from this adventure. I wasn’t draining my tanks because I figured they were draining themselves. I discovered that wasn’t really the case. Just because they leak, doesn’t mean you’re getting the moisture out. Also, I looked at the pre-trip checklist but never actually performed it. I thought my brakes were working ok. Obviously, that was not the case. The reason I didn’t notice all of my hoses leaking is that when I did test them I always had the engine running. What was happening is the compressor would reach cut out pressure and then drop about 10 PSI for regeneration. When the brake pedal was pressed the pressure would drop to about 105 PSI at which point the compressor would engage and basically hold the pressure or slowly increase. It was just barely keeping up with the leaks. If I would have had the engine off, I would’ve have seen the steady decrease in pressure. Also, I never released the parking brake with the engine off. Again, had I done that I would have seen (or heard) the decrease in pressure. Once again, thanks to everyone who helped me get this fixed. I still have some cleanup to do, but otherwise I consider this case closed. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 It's great to see someone close out a thread with a summary and recommendations Thanks 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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