LOST POWER - Electric Receptacles - 2005 HR Endeavor

[TomV48]

On 6/24/2023 at 5:22 PM, Gonzalo said:

good idea but i check for voltage in the GFI and get noting  so i wonder were the power to GFI come first 

 

Mine comes from one side of  the Magnum output.

[Tom Cherry]

16 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

Mine comes from one side of  the Magnum output.

FWIW....

If I read back through all the posts....he had a BAD GFCI...and replaced it with a new one, but reversed the line and load.  SO, there is NO power going out on the LOAD SIDE.  A GCFI does NOT send current from the LINE to the LOAD.  IF he reverses it, all will work...or at least I think so.

He did not tell us until just a few hours ago that the Microwave is working....so the ATS inside the Magnum appears to work.  That is what we need to find out.  If reversing or wiring the GFCI (assuming it is reversed) correctly.  If that does NOT fix it, then the ATS (which is a Double Pole relay on the PCB inside the inverter) is defective....OR there is a short (open circuit in the Pin Breaker.

You are correct....a Single IN (30 Amp Input) comes out as TWO 20 Amp circuits.  One dedicated to the Microwave and the other feeds the rest of the interior, but it goes directly to the GFCI first...and reversed....IT AIN"T coming OUT...

We shall see.

[Dr4Film]

I ask long ago if he checked to see if there was power on any of the wires where the GFCI that he was working on.

No response.

Logic says that would have been my FIRST test.

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

I ask long ago if he checked to see if there was power on any of the wires where the GFCI that he was working on.

No response.

Logic says that would have been my FIRST test.

Post #3 ( now with all these threads combined).

"No power at GFI'. 

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

12 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Post #3 ( now with all these threads combined).

"No power at GFI'. 

 

NO QUITE.  Probably POWER going into the GFCI but it is connected to the LOAD SIDE.  The Load and Line are reversed....based on what I can see or suspect from the pictures.  Still waiting for OP to contact me.

If they are reversed...then there is no OUTGOING power from the GFCI....and that is the issue as he now says he has POWER at the Microwave.  I guess we just wait and see...

Read the post that discusses the Line and Load terminals being different on different brands.  

[Gonzalo]

On 6/24/2023 at 8:22 PM, Tom Cherry said:

From the top.  There are two circuits from your inverter.  One goes to the microwave.  One to the GFCI.  The GFCI then powers all the outlets in the interior as well as the refrigerator.  Post a picture of your inverter or tell us if it a Magnum or a Xantrex (Freedom?).  Bases on the age of your motor home, you need to replace the GFCI.  You MUST use a brand that has been tested for the Inverter.  My preference is Eaton Wiring Devices. The other two are Leviton or Hubbell.  Purchase a new 20 Amp (NOT 15 Amp) one.  If you feel comfortable replacing (obviously with the power OFF), the GFCI (is is just like a residential receptacle), then I will give you more information.  Otherwise find a friend that can do wiring in homes and can replace a simple receptacle.  DO NOT purchase a Tamper Proof.  Do not buy the Lowes Utilitec brand. Home Depot or a local hardware store or an electrical supply store will have one of the three brands….or order from Amazon.

I need one more bit or information.  You need to NOT be plugged into any SHORE power.  You need to go to the generator and turn off the circuit breaker.  It is easy to spot. You need to turn off the House Battery switch.  Now, you or your friend, needs to remove the cover plate .  Loosen the two screws and pull it out.  Look at where the power cables or wires go. There will be a power cable connected to the top of the GFCI.  There will be another power cable on the bottom.  Sometimes there are TWO cables on the bottom.  Please take s picture or tell us if there is ONE or TWO attached at the bottom.

Lets solve the GFCI issue first.  This is 120 Volt AC and your Generator cranks or starts from 12 Volts DC.  The GFCI should not be interfering with the Generator starting circuit.

Take the pictures and get us the information.  Then we’ll tell you how to install the GFCI.  BTW, the older the GFCI gets, the more unreliable and the more problems you have, especially in a Motor Home.  It is acting like an old grumpy man and refuses to work….

Curiosity?  Am I correct that you have a 120 VAC refrigerator and NOT a gas one? Let us know….then the “fix”…

I just unplugged the er. GFCI and by pass the receptacle and the refer works and all the plugs I may plug the GFCI backwards but thanks all I will try again today but is my wife Birthday and our 40 Anniversary

Happy birthday America 

 

Thanks again I by pass all the wires and everything works I May wire wrong 

happy 4th of July 

Yes you are Wright I think the wires were backwards thanks again I will try again later 

[Dr4Film]

16 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Post #3 ( now with all these threads combined).

"No power at GFI'. 

 

BIG difference between checking if there is power going IN to the GFCI or OUT of the GFCI. Makes no sense to install a new GFCI if there is no power there in the first place.

A quick simple test is to use a DVOM set to VAC at the incoming wires.

[96 EVO]

10 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

BIG difference between checking if there is power going IN to the GFCI or OUT of the GFCI. Makes no sense to install a new GFCI if there is no power there in the first place.

A quick simple test is to use a DVOM set to VAC at the incoming wires.

Yeah, I assumed he was speaking about 'IN', but, who knows.

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Gonzalo said:

I just unplugged the er. GFCI and by pass the receptacle and the refer works and all the plugs I may plug the GFCI backwards but thanks all I will try again today but is my wife Birthday and our 40 Anniversary

Happy birthday America 

 

Thanks again I by pass all the wires and everything works I May wire wrong 

happy 4th of July 

Yes you are Wright I think the wires were backwards thanks again I will try again later 

Gonzalo,

i wish you would have called me.  The GFCI is installed backwards.  The TWO wires are the LOAD.  Look on the back of the GFCI.  There are TWO sets of terminals.  The TWO wires go to the LOAD terminals. The Single wire goes to the LINE.  I hope you still have the wires marked.  If NOT, use a VOM and find the black and white with 120 Volts.  Then attach the wires with power to the LINE terminal and the OTHER two sets of wires to the LOAD ones.

I have thought all along that you had a old GFCI that was killing the power.  But you never responded when asked if the Microwave was working.

Please correct this and reinstall the GFCI properly for electrical safety and the personal safety of your family.

Let us know.

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, I assumed he was speaking about 'IN', but, who knows.

@96 EVO & @Dr4Film,

YES.  Using a VOM would have been the logical first step.  However, there was enough information in the first post about the GFCI not resetting to know or highly suspect that it was the culprit as well as assuming that due to age, it was defective and advising to replace it.  It was NOT a waste of money, now that we know, as originally posted.

However, based on Gonzalo’s description and the language barrier, I made a decision to not ASSUME he had or could safely use a VOM.  Several reasons…..some personal and some for the preservation of this site.  We Moderators are very concerned about coaching individuals from the standpoint of putting them at risk, personally, as well as the potential liability.  Therefore, we have taken the position to do simple tests NOT involving live voltage trouble shooting UNLESS they post that they have that skill or we believe, from their posts, that they do.

It is a difficult call.  However, after doing this for over 14 years and getting feedback, I am less reluctant to start an individual down a live trouble shooting path without some knowledge or inclination that they are competent enough in doing such.  

I also traveled extensively, internationally, and installed or helped local folks in understanding how ladder logic and process control circuits worked.  It was obvious, early on, that communication or translation was an issue….  Later on, when I had Safety, making sure that the electricians or the “fixers” as they were called, were properly trained in electrical safety and safe trouble shooting techniques.

SO, i guess I am a little more conservative now, than in the past.  Too many times,  the owner that has marginal skills will not understand why there are interior lights, but no power….and the relationship of AC and DC and why “where is the fuse” is not an answer….as there are no “fuses” on our AC circuits.

That is the my position as well as the concerns with offline conversations with the staff.  Directing or recommending a live voltage measurement to someone that does not own or does not understand the difference between measuring “ohms or continuity” versus voltage….AC vs DC can have grave consequences.

Thanks for reading and understanding this and helping us keep folks safe, as they learn, in the future.